Switched to a topspin grip...hitting lots of unforced errors into the net

[Fintft]

Oh. My. Goodness.

I think that he's referring to the Bernoulli Effect, although I don't quite agree with his conclusion that it is impossible to over hit.

 

[Fintft]

You just need to think of it as a package. You hit a little upwards but it's the grip that will correct the tilt of the racquet, so the end result is ball going slightly upwards with spin, catching its peak somewhere before or about when it clears the net. You start doing this and you will be pleased with results.

Yeah, that's the advice I also got, last time I saw a coach (albeit young).
It's also obvious when people don't do enough of it, or at all.

 

[PittsburghDad]

It is beyond awesome that the upshot of those silly dissertations was "swing low to high.".

 

[The Unknown]

Really? When I switched from an Eastern to a SW, it took a matter of a couple of minutes to adjust to the new grip.

I tried going to from a strong semi-western to somewhere slightly closer to an eastern and it was like writing with my opposite hand with my eyes closed and fingers taped together. That bad.

 

[SystemicAnomaly]

I think that he's referring to the Bernoulli Effect, although I don't quite agree with his conclusion that it is impossible to over hit.

Or perhaps the Magnus effect, which may or may not truly be a corollary of the Bernoulli principle.

 

[SystemicAnomaly]

I tried going to from a strong semi-western to somewhere slightly closer to an eastern and it was like writing with my opposite hand with my eyes closed and fingers taped together. That bad.

A bit confused by this first part of this statement. What was your original grip? Have you considered a milder grip change? Or no grip change at all?

 

[The Unknown]

A bit confused by this first part of this statement. What was your original grip? Have you considered a milder grip change? Or no grip change at all?

I have a strong semi-western (half way between semi -western and western). Tried to go semi-western but couldnt. Just worked on my stroke and didnt end up changing grip. Didnt need to.

 

[SystemicAnomaly]

I have a strong semi-western (half way between semi -western and western). Tried to go semi-western but couldnt. Just worked on my stroke and didnt end up changing grip. Didnt need to.

Ok. Was confused cuz I had thought you were the OP, who we assumed was hitting with a conservative group = some version of Eastern or continental. Not sure if he ever said.

 

[3fees]

Use the Australian Grip half way between Continental and Eastern grip, hitting with semi western and especially full western has its restrictions, very spin oriented forehands and where you hit the ball is radically changed.

Since your starting out, forget the semi western grip, simply tilt the racquet forward more from your normal grip and hit the ball as usual , you will see top spin, then gradually move towards your goal of semi western a little at a time- take baby steps.. In other words take two aspirin and call me in the morning, my clinic is closed.



Cheers
3fees

 

[zalive]

Since your starting out, forget the semi western grip, simply tilt the racquet forward more from your normal grip and hit the ball as usual , you will see top spin, then gradually move towards your goal of semi western a little at a time- take baby steps.. In other words take two aspirin and call me in the morning, my clinic is closed.

For me personally, it was easier to change the grip, adjust the swing path and keep the tilt, than to change the tilt and keep the grip. For some reasons keeping the tilt felt easier and natural.

But I must correct myself as I wrote a false thing. My previous grip (to current SW) was conti, not eastern.

 

[Bender]

That's about what it took me, too. Same when I dabbled with a full Western. Shanked a couple, found the range, then could hit it. Discarded it after a week as, "less suitable to my game," but wasn't a problem to use. Changed from an Eastern to a Southwestern between sets, once upon a time, and kept it that way ever since.

A lot of this has to do with an individual's playing level, which will necessarily tie pretty directly into how good they are at adapting to kinesthetic feedback on the tennis court.

Ah yes, Jared Fogle's preferred forehand grip for juniors...

 

[bitcoinoperated]

Could be low to high or too much spin or not enough juice. Post a video for useful feedback.

Yep, it could be any of these.

Based on seeing people try and learn a topspin stroke it is probably a combination of:
Not swinging fast enough (people that hit flat usually control depth with swing speed and get scared of fast racquet head speeds)
Closing the racquet face. From the baseline the racquet face needs tilting just closed of vertical

It is rare I see them get crazy spin and no power sending it into the net

 

[3fees]

Ah yes, Jared Fogle's preferred forehand grip for juniors...

By changing the tilt of the tennis racquet you have changed the grip as well, small steps before the plunge makes a easier transition to SW Grip.

Clinic is closed

Cheers
3Fees

 

[Brett]

But it is correct in saying I probably need to work on the swing pattern of it needing to be more low to high correct? Like a brush method? I might not be doing as sharp as an angle.

And if I am now using a Semi-Western grip, I shouldn't have to worry about making sure the racquet head is tilted upward at point of contact because it will automatically do it, right? I don't think I could try fixing that with all these other things at the same time!

 

[wings56]

Thank you all very much! All your comments are very helpful. Yes I am switching from basically hitting for 10 years with a continental but kind of close to a eastern forehand grip (in between both bevels) on my forehands. I think all of you are right and I need to work on a fast swing speed and the swing plane...focusing on going more low to high with a brush method. I think I tend to go away from that because I didn't have to do that on my flat forehands. It led to bad habits.

Is there an easy way to find and keep your semi-western grip? Sometimes I look down and my base knuckle has shifted down to the 3 bevel which is more of a eastern forehand.

Does the fact that I am playing with an 18 x 20 racquet make a difference? I figure I would still have these issues on a 16 x 19 too.

I'd roll with the eastern forehand. You can hit all the topspin you need. Handful of guys on tour are hitting heavy balls with an Eastern grip. It's all about the swingpath.

 

[wings56]

But it is correct in saying I probably need to work on the swing pattern of it needing to be more low to high correct? Like a brush method? I might not be doing as sharp as an angle.

And if I am now using a Semi-Western grip, I shouldn't have to worry about making sure the racquet head is tilted upward at point of contact because it will automatically do it, right? I don't think I could try fixing that with all these other things at the same time!

Baby steps. Start by hitting balls that you would consider to be lobs with a tiny amount of topspin. Slowly bring down the trajectory of the ball while adding additional spin.

 

[Brett]

Thanks everyone, so to give you an update since I only have been play once a week:

Today I won a match, 4-6, 6-2, 6-3. I went more for a grip today of an in between eastern/semi western grip like one user suggested trying rather than a full semi western. The result was I hit less shots into the net today like I used to when I was hitting with a full semi-western, but I did have a lot more balls sailing long. Almost reminiscent of when I was hitting my flat forehand all those years.

Just frustrating...I honestly tried visualizing more height of clearing the net.

 

[zalive]

@Brett :
The way I see it, changing grip isn't the biggest change for you, it's a switch from flat hitting to hitting with topspin.
Whatever grip you use and whatever tilt you use for hitting with topspin, you need to correct your swing paths. Because swing paths needed for hitting with topspin and for hitting flat are not the same.

To get the topspin, you need to create brushing, and you create it by ensuring there's a tilt of racquet's head relative to swing path present when hitting the ball - racquet's head needs to hit the ball when closed down a bit. This will create spin. But to compensate for the spinny ball and even more for a tilt that is needed to generate spin, you need to make your swing paths a bit more upwards compared to flat hitting swing paths you use currently.

You achieved the tilt just by changing the grip (to SW) without compensating it with your forearm (relative to old eastern/conti - are you sure you used eastern and not conti?). I know this is ok because I've done similar in the past. But now to take a benefit, you need that swing path correction, because swing paths that you use for pure flat hitting won't be as useful for you for topspin shots.

It will take some time for you to discover best swing paths for the tilt you will be using to create topspin, and to adopt them until hitting this way becomes automatic. Some errors in between are natural.

 

[bitcoinoperated]

The way I see it, changing grip isn't the biggest change for you, it's a switch from flat hitting to hitting with topspin.
Whatever grip you use and whatever tilt you use for hitting with topspin, you need to correct your swing paths. Because swing paths needed for hitting with topspin and for hitting flat are not the same.

I agree. I think focusing on grip is putting the cart before the horse in some respects. I started hitting topspin with eastern just because that was what grip I was taught when I first picked up a tennis racquet. As I played using topspin my grip naturally moved over to semi-western just because it made it easier. They key is consistently getting the right racquet face angle at impact which is why I can hit almost the same with eastern or full western if I focus.

At this point in your topspin career the misses will be large when you get it wrong because of the fast racquet head speed and if the racquet opens while bring up it will launch the ball up with minimal spin. Just focus on 1) actually getting significant topspin (you are then on the right track). Then 2) actually worry about the ball landing in which will be dealt with by consistently getting the correct racquet face angle at impact. Don't expect to use in in a match for some time.

 

[Friedman Whip]

Oops!

 

[Friedman Whip]

That's about what it took me, too. Same when I dabbled with a full Western. Shanked a couple, found the range, then could hit it. Discarded it after a week as, "less suitable to my game," but wasn't a problem to use. Changed from an Eastern to a Southwestern between sets, once upon a time, and kept it that way ever since.

A lot of this has to do with an individual's playing level, which will necessarily tie pretty directly into how good they are at adapting to kinesthetic feedback on the tennis court.

I had a similar experience with the Southwestern grip. Tried it for awhile but found it unsuitable, so I moved on over to the full Southern grip (shown below). It seems to be very popular here in Alabama.