TennisWeek Tournament of Champions???

[380pistol]

Does anyone have the entire tournament from TennisWeek in 2006.

All I know is that the seeds were......

1. Federer
2. Laver
3. Sampras
4. Borg
5. Tilden
6. Budge
8. McEnroe


SEMI FINALS: Federer def. McEnroe 6-4, 6-7, 7-6, 3-6, 7-5 and Laver def. Sampras 5-7, 7-6, 7-6, 4-6, 8-6

FINAL: Federer def. Laver 6-4, 5-7, 6-3, 4-6, 7-5

OTHER MATHES: Agassi's first-round, five-set win over Ivan Lendl (9-7 in the fifth)........ McEnroe's 5 set win over Pancho Gonzales in the second round (also, 9-7 in the fifth)...... and Boris Becker's surprising upset of Grand Slam champion and No. 6 seed Don Budge in the opening round (4-6, 7-5, 6-7, 6-4,6-3)



This is the 3rd one of these I've seen. McEnroe one the 1st one. Sports Illustrated did a small one around the turn of the century which ended....

QUARTERFINALS
[1] Laver def. [8] Emerson
[4] Borg def. [5] McEnroe
[3] Sampras def. [6] Gonzales
[2] Tilden def. [7] Perry

SEMI FINALS
[4] Borg def. [1] Laver
[3] Sampras def. [2] Tilden

FINAL
[3] Sampras def. [4] Borg

Tennis Weeks' was interesting seeing that Budge didn't get out of the 1st rd and Pancho Gonzales didn't escape the 2nd. I would have expected Pancho to very deep, if not win it all. So if anyone has any info, please.....

 

[Moose Malloy]

here is the complete draw:

http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=102450

this is how they had the QF's:
Mac d Borg
Fed d Becker
Sampras d Kramer
Laver d Tilden

This is the 3rd one of these I've seen. McEnroe one the 1st one

Which one was that? Inside Tennis had a fantasy tournament in 1986 in which Laver beat Mac in the final.
I also recall Rino Tommasi doing one for the US Open Magazine in 1995(he had Jack Kramer winning it)

Tennis Weeks' was interesting seeing that Budge didn't get out of the 1st rd and Pancho Gonzales didn't escape the 2nd. I would have expected Pancho to very deep, if not win it all. So if anyone has any info, please.....

There was a 7 person panel that voted on the matches(Fred Stolle, Gardner Malloy, Richard Evans, Steve Flink, Pancho Segura, forgot the others)

There were close votes on many of the matches(though I think it was 7-0 on Mac vs Borg in the QF's) The final was a 5-2 vote.

Mac vs Pancho was a 4-3 vote(Steve Flink told me he voted for Pancho in that match & may have also picked him if he played Fed in the SF)

Mac also got a 4-3 vote vs Hoad in the 1st round(tough draw, Hoad just missed being seeded)

 

[urban]

I know at least two more of these phantom tournaments (there were also some boxing tournaments in the late 60s, won mostly by Rocky Marciano). In 1986 Inside tennis made a poll among 37 experts (the greatest poll i know)and then a computerized tournament (with help of the ATP computer). The final was won by Laver over Mac, with Budge and Kramer in the semis. In 1994 Tennis week asked 7 experts, Collins, Carillo, Flink, Plimpton, Wind among them. The consensus had Laver win over Tilden, and Narvratilova win over Seles.

 

[380pistol]

here is the complete draw:

http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=102450

this is how they had the QF's:
Mac d Borg
Fed d Becker
Sampras d Kramer
Laver d Tilden



Which one was that? Inside Tennis had a fantasy tournament in 1986 in which Laver beat Mac in the final.
I also recall Rino Tommasi doing one for the US Open Magazine in 1995(he had Jack Kramer winning it)



There was a 7 person panel that voted on the matches(Fred Stolle, Gardner Malloy, Richard Evans, Steve Flink, Pancho Segura, forgot the others)

There were close votes on many of the matches(though I think it was 7-0 on Mac vs Borg in the QF's) The final was a 5-2 vote.

Mac vs Pancho was a 4-3 vote(Steve Flink told me he voted for Pancho in that match & may have also picked him if he played Fed in the SF)

Mac also got a 4-3 vote vs Hoad in the 1st round(tough draw, Hoad just missed being seeded)

Thank you for the link. I recall Mac winning one, don't recall who or where it was from but I'm almost certain it was Laver in the final. I don't recall when it was done but I'm guessing the 1980's.

The 1995 tournament you talk about with Kramer winning it is one I'm unaware of, and the one I recall was from Sports Illustrated, I don't know the whole breakdown, but gave the final 8 with Sampras beating Borg in the final.

The issues I have with Tennis Week's one are.....
-ranking system (saw a breakdown posted here, and many will have issues)
-the draw, they only seeded the top 8 I believe and just threw everyone else in (How the hell do you have Borotra/Vilas in the 1st rd yet Mac/Hoad???... Santana/Wilander yet Laver and Perry???)
-Mac's draw was extremely tough (Hoad, Gonzales, then Borg before Federer)
-Pancho 2nd rd, is a joke to me, the guy may very well be the GOAT
-Mac 7-0 over Borg, what are these guys smoking??? Tell then to leave Tina" alone!!!

You said Hoad just missed being seeded, do you have any other info regarding that???

 

[380pistol]

I know at least two more of these phantom tournaments (there were also some boxing tournaments in the late 60s, won mostly by Rocky Marciano). In 1986 Inside tennis made a poll among 37 experts (the greatest poll i know)and then a computerized tournament (with help of the ATP computer). The final was won by Laver over Mac, with Budge and Kramer in the semis. In 1994 Tennis week asked 7 experts, Collins, Carillo, Flink, Plimpton, Wind among them. The consensus had Laver win over Tilden, and Narvratilova win over Seles.

Laver over Mac. I recall Mac over Laver but could be wrong, it was a while back. I was never aware of the the woman's one. Do you have any other info on that?? Seles in the final.... ahead of Court, Graf and Connolly. Interesting.

 

[AndrewTas]

Clerici using actual results

This is sort of a fantasy tournament. There was a 64 men draw tournament at the back of the Clerici Ultimate Tennis Book (1975 edition) using actual matches between players from 1911 to 1973. No final was played as the two men never met each other.


Third Round
Tilden d. Borotra 46 60 26 97 64
Brookes d. Wilding 64 64 75
Cochet d. Lacoste 57 63 61 63
Perry d. Crawford 63 60 75
Gonzales d. Schroeder 1618 26 61 62 64
Kramer d. Drobny 36 63 60 61
Rosewall d. Hoad 46 62 63 63
Laver d. Newcombe 64 63 64

Quarter finals
Tilden d. Brookes 108 64 16 64
Cochet d. Perry 64 16 97 63
Gonzales d. Kramer 75 63 64
Laver d. Rosewall 64 57 64 64

SF
Tilden d. Cochet 64 26 62 86
Laver d. Gonzales 75 1416 75 62

Final
Laver vs. Tilden unplayed

I don't know if I like the results Clerici has put down. In particular Tilden vs. Cochet as Cochet had a winning 7-2 win-loss against Tilden.

 

[380pistol]

This is sort of a fantasy tournament. There was a 64 men draw tournament at the back of the Clerici Ultimate Tennis Book (1975 edition) using actual matches between players from 1911 to 1973. No final was played as the two men never met each other.


Third Round
Tilden d. Borotra 46 60 26 97 64
Brookes d. Wilding 64 64 75
Cochet d. Lacoste 57 63 61 63
Perry d. Crawford 63 60 75
Gonzales d. Schroeder 1618 26 61 62 64
Kramer d. Drobny 36 63 60 61
Rosewall d. Hoad 46 62 63 63
Laver d. Newcombe 64 63 64

Quarter finals
Tilden d. Brookes 108 64 16 64
Cochet d. Perry 64 16 97 63
Gonzales d. Kramer 75 63 64
Laver d. Rosewall 64 57 64 64

SF
Tilden d. Cochet 64 26 62 86
Laver d. Gonzales 75 1416 75 62

Final
Laver vs. Tilden unplayed

I don't know if I like the results Clerici has put down. In particular Tilden vs. Cochet as Cochet had a winning 7-2 win-loss against Tilden.

Thanks for the info, but I dislike the author and this one for two reasons....

-you said the author took results from actual matches, anyone can beat anyone on any given day, I thought these fantasy tournaments were about who was the better between the 2 players who matched up

-where the hell is Don Budge??? 1911-1973 and he's not in the top 16, something is terribly wrong as far as I'm concerned.

 

[380pistol]

I recall someone posting the seeds of Tennis Week's Tournament. The had the point breakdown, it was around 200-210 pts among the top seeds. If anyone could repost it or post the link I'd appreciate it.

Federer and Laver came in 213 and Sampras 3rd at 212.

 

[Moose Malloy]

I recall someone posting the seeds of Tennis Week's Tournament. The had the point breakdown, it was around 200-210 pts among the top seeds. If anyone could repost it or post the link I'd appreciate it.

its in the link I posted earlier in this thread.

you said the author took results from actual matches, anyone can beat anyone on any given day, I thought these fantasy tournaments were about who was the better between the 2 players who matched up

I don't see how you can not leave out this factor. For example, Hoad's record is clearly well below many other greats - going just purely on achievements there is no way any historian could put him in their alltime top 20, but so many rank him quite high just on his ability(and by what other greats say. I'm sure a lot of fans hear Laver praise him & just assume he should be top 10 or something)

So its not surprising he often does well in fantasy events since so many think at his best he was just that great. Ditto with Mac & Becker(like him beating Budge in the TennisWeek event), they've done well in these events as well since so many think 'when they were on' they could beat anyone. Guys like Lendl, Borg aren't viewed the same way for some reason. Flashy players always get respected more, even many years later.

where the hell is Don Budge??? 1911-1973 and he's not in the top 16, something is terribly wrong as far as I'm concerned

He had him losing to Perry in the previous round(nothing controversial about that, they were considered pretty much equals)

I also came across a fantasy event Eugene Scott did in 1974(urban told me about this)

He had Gonzales beating Laver 63, 75, 76 in the final.

Also I came across this book, The Book of Tennis Lists(again urban) where they had a computer do the results of a fantasy event(this was around 1985)

SF: Kramer d Hoad, Laver d Borg
Final: Laver d Kramer

the women:

SF: Connolly d Bueno, Navratilova d Court
Final: Connolly d Navratilova

 

[urban]

The French Tennis Magazine - besides one of the best publications in tennis - in 2000 had another alltime tournament. It pitted Sampras vs. Laver in the final, without giving a result. The editors left the decision to the readers. I think, they had Laver-Agassi, and Sampras-Budge in the semis. I will look for other results.

 

[CEvertFan]

There was also one of those fantasy tournaments for the men and women in World Tennis magazine back in 1988 or 1989. It was a 20 player draw for each tournament, single elimination.

Men's winner - McEnroe
Women's winner - Graf

 

[380pistol]

its in the link I posted earlier in this thread.

Yeah I know thanks. I didn't have a chance to llok through the entire link til earlier today. When I wrote that post I'd on;ly looked at the first page and the draw.

I don't see how you can not leave out this factor. For example, Hoad's record is clearly well below many other greats - going just purely on achievements there is no way any historian could put him in their alltime top 20, but so many rank him quite high just on his ability(and by what other greats say. I'm sure a lot of fans hear Laver praise him & just assume he should be top 10 or something)

So its not surprising he often does well in fantasy events since so many think at his best he was just that great. Ditto with Mac & Becker(like him beating Budge in the TennisWeek event), they've done well in these events as well since so many think 'when they were on' they could beat anyone. Guys like Lendl, Borg aren't viewed the same way for some reason. Flashy players always get respected more, even many years later.

I don't mind them using actual results, but if person A beats person B on this day and they used that result, I don't know how accurate that is. What if "A" and "B" split 10 matches which one would they use?? Put them in a hat and pick one???

I would like to their process of picking which match between the 2 players. I didn't mean leave it out, but if that's the sole basis, it just seem inaccurate to me. Understand and agree with what you said about Lew Hoad.

He had him losing to Perry in the previous round(nothing controversial about that, they were considered pretty much equals)

I also came across a fantasy event Eugene Scott did in 1974(urban told me about this)

He had Gonzales beating Laver 63, 75, 76 in the final.

Also I came across this book, The Book of Tennis Lists(again urban) where they had a computer do the results of a fantasy event(this was around 1985)

SF: Kramer d Hoad, Laver d Borg
Final: Laver d Kramer

the women:

SF: Connolly d Bueno, Navratilova d Court
Final: Connolly d Navratilova

Maybe not contreversial but I'd give the nod to Budge over Perry. Always thought Budge was underappreciated. And I can find some players that made the final 16 who are certainly not ahead of Budge.

Yeah I can see Gonzales beating Laver but not in straight sets. Maybe 4, or even 5. As far as the other one, it seems I've missed a few of the fantasy tournaments, thanks for the info.

And just curios in the link Hoad came in at 162. Laver, Federer at 213, Sampras 212, yet Mac did so well despite coming at 170. Lendl rounds out the top 10 at 146, so what the hell did Gonzales get?? If you have ny info regarding Tennis Week's rating process please let me knoe, cuz based on #'s alonee I don't get it.

Tilden at 187, Budge at 183 yet Gonzales is below 146?!?