The NIST on the WTC collapse - retardo conspiracy theories laid to rest (1)

You only have to read ......




National Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST) Federal Building and Fire Safety Investigation of the World Trade Center Disaster

Answers to Frequently Asked Questions

(NIST NCSTAR throughout this document refers to one of the 43 volumes that comprise NIST’s final report on the WTC Towers issued in October 2005. All sections of the report listed in this document are available at http://wtc.nist.gov.)

1. If the World Trade Center (WTC) towers were designed to withstand multiple impacts by Boeing 707 aircraft, why did the impact of individual 767s cause so much damage?

As stated in Section 5.3.2 of NIST NCSTAR 1, a document from the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey (PANYNJ) indicated that the impact of a [single, not multiple] Boeing 707 aircraft was analyzed during the design stage of the WTC towers. However, NIST investigators were unable to locate any documentation of the criteria and method used in the impact analysis and, therefore, were unable to verify the assertion that “… such collision would result in only local damage which could not cause collapse or substantial damage to the building.…”

The capability to conduct rigorous simulations of the aircraft impact, the growth and spread of the ensuing fires, and the effects of fires on the structure is a recent development. Since the approach to structural modeling was developed for the NIST WTC investigation, the technical capability available to the PANYNJ and its consultants and contactors to perform such analyses in the 1960s would have been quite limited in comparison to the capabilities brought to bear in the NIST investigation.

The damage from the impact of a Boeing 767 aircraft (which is about 20 percent bigger than a Boeing 707) into each tower is well documented in NCSTAR 1-2. The massive damage was caused by the large mass of the aircraft, their high speed and momentum, which severed the relatively light steel of the exterior columns on the impact floors. The results of the NIST impact analyses matched well with observations (from photos and videos and analysis of recovered WTC steel) of exterior damage and of the amount and location of debris exiting from the buildings. This agreement supports the premise that the structural damage to the towers was due to the aircraft impact and not to any alternative forces.

2. Why did NIST not consider a “controlled demolition” hypothesis with matching computer modeling and explanation as it did for the “pancake theory” hypothesis? A key critique of NIST’s work lies in the complete lack of analysis supporting a “progressive collapse” after the point of collapse initiation and the lack of consideration given to a controlled demolition hypothesis.

NIST conducted an extremely thorough three-year investigation into what caused the WTC towers to collapse, as explained in NIST’s dedicated Web site, http://wtc.nist.gov. This included consideration of a number of hypotheses for the collapses of the towers.

Some 200 technical experts—including about 85 career NIST experts and 125 leading experts from the private sector and academia—reviewed tens of thousands of documents, interviewed more than 1,000 people, reviewed 7,000 segments of video footage and 7,000 photographs, analyzed 236 pieces of steel from the wreckage, performed laboratory tests and sophisticated computer simulations of the sequence of events that occurred from the moment the aircraft struck the towers until they began to collapse.

Based on this comprehensive investigation, NIST concluded that the WTC towers collapsed because: (1) the impact of the planes severed and damaged support columns, dislodged fireproofing insulation coating the steel floor trusses and steel columns, and widely dispersed jet fuel over multiple floors; and (2) the subsequent unusually large jet-fuel ignited multi-floor fires (which reached temperatures as high as 1,000 degrees Celsius) significantly weakened the floors and columns with dislodged fireproofing to the point where floors sagged and pulled inward on the perimeter columns. This led to the inward bowing of the perimeter columns and failure of the south face of WTC 1 and the east face of WTC 2, initiating the collapse of each of the towers. Both photographic and video evidence—as well as accounts from the New York Police Department aviation unit during a half-hour period prior to collapse—support this sequence for each tower.

NIST’s findings do not support the “pancake theory” of collapse, which is premised on a progressive failure of the floor systems in the WTC towers (the composite floor system—that connected the core columns and the perimeter columns—consisted of a grid of steel “trusses” integrated with a concrete slab; see diagram below). Instead, the NIST investigation showed conclusively that the failure of the inwardly bowed perimeter columns initiated collapse and that the occurrence of this inward bowing required the sagging floors to remain connected to the columns and pull the columns inwards. Thus, the floors did not fail progressively to cause a pancaking phenomenon.


NIST’s findings also do not support the “controlled demolition” theory since there is conclusive evidence that:

the collapse was initiated in the impact and fire floors of the WTC towers and nowhere else, and;

the time it took for the collapse to initiate (56 minutes for WTC 2 and 102 minutes for WTC 1) was dictated by (1) the extent of damage caused by the aircraft impact, and (2) the time it took for the fires to reach critical locations and weaken the structure to the point that the towers could not resist the tremendous energy released by the downward movement of the massive top section of the building at and above the fire and impact floors.

Video evidence also showed unambiguously that the collapse progressed from the top to the bottom, and there was no evidence (collected by NIST, or by the New York Police Department, the Port Authority Police Department or the Fire Department of New York) of any blast or explosions in the region below the impact and fire floors as the top building sections (including and above the 98th floor in WTC 1 and the 82nd floor in WTC 2) began their downward movement upon collapse initiation.

In summary, NIST found no corroborating evidence for alternative hypotheses suggesting that the WTC towers were brought down by controlled demolition using explosives planted prior to Sept. 11, 2001. NIST also did not find any evidence that missiles were fired at or hit the towers. Instead, photographs and videos from several angles clearly show that the collapse initiated at the fire and impact floors and that the collapse progressed from the initiating floors downward until the dust clouds obscured the view.

3. How could the WTC towers have collapsed without a controlled demolition since no steel-frame, high-rise buildings have ever before or since been brought down due to fires? Temperatures due to fire don't get hot enough for buildings to collapse.

The collapse of the WTC towers was not caused either by a conventional building fire or even solely by the concurrent multi-floor fires that day. Instead, NIST concluded that the WTC towers collapsed because: (1) the impact of the planes severed and damaged support columns, dislodged fireproofing insulation coating the steel floor trusses and steel columns, and widely dispersed jet fuel over multiple floors; and (2) the subsequent unusually large, jet-fuel ignited multi-floor fires weakened the now susceptible structural steel. No building in the United States has ever been subjected to the massive structural damage and concurrent multi-floor fires that the towers experienced on Sept. 11, 2001.

4. Weren't the puffs of smoke that were seen, as the collapse of each WTC tower starts, evidence of controlled demolition explosions?

No. As stated in Section 6.14.4 of NIST NCSTAR 1, the falling mass of the building compressed the air ahead of it—much like the action of a piston—forcing smoke and debris out the windows as the stories below failed sequentially.

These puffs were observed at many locations as the towers collapsed. In all cases, they had the appearance of jets of gas being pushed from the building through windows or between columns on the mechanical floors. Such jets are expected since the air inside the building is compressed as the tower falls and must flow somewhere as the pressure builds. It is significant that similar “puffs” were observed numerous times on the fire floors in both towers prior to their collapses, perhaps due to falling walls or portions of a floor. Puffs from WTC 1 were even observed when WTC 2 was struck by the aircraft. These observations confirm that even minor overpressures were transmitted through the towers and forced smoke and debris from the building.




Condi
 

SoBad

G.O.A.T.
Sounds like the recent coke binge has come to an end for OP and she is in need of "contributions" from fellow CNN viewers from the forum:):)
 

CanadianChic

Hall of Fame
Go back to the original thread and read what I wrote as to why I won't read your posts - it has nothing too do with nutty conspiracy theories - if you look past yourself and read what others post you would see that I am not exactly known for my patience with conspiracy theorists. :)
 

OrangeOne

Legend
Well, perhaps so that people at least READ what about 200 certified experts have found out?

But if you prefer to read nutty conspiracy websites .... :D

Condi

I'm with CC - this is a tennis board. We already had 2 (or 3) threads on this, and you've just created 3 more? It's spam now....
 

Swissv2

Hall of Fame
Condeleeza, this is proof that you haven't even read anything from Johnny's post. Why am I not surprised. Here, let me make it easy for you and I will copy paste what Johnny posted over 3 days ago.
 
I'm with CC - this is a tennis board. We already had 2 (or 3) threads on this, and you've just created 3 more? It's spam now....

No.
I'm addressing specific topics of the 9/11 discussion. And I'm inserting information on the official findings of hundreds of certified experts.

"Spam" is when ******** conspiracy theorists fill TTW with links to obscure websites where certified liars splash out their long debunked idiocies.

Condi
 

Swissv2

Hall of Fame
Your first question, answered by Johnny 3 Days ago.
http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showpost.php?p=1080147&postcount=56


First of all, I have watched your video Trainer.

Now, if I said that your debunking theories were "bullsh**" (as proclaimed many times in the video), Trainer, would you agree with that? I don't believe so. Simply stating that research done is “chit" in your own words, doesn't mean people will be convinced to your view.

My question to you is have you watched the video I provided a link for? I don't believe so. Please correct me if this is not so.

Secondly, since you are eager to steer me towards “what I have to say” I have taken the following directly from here -> http://wtc.nist.gov/

Each question is worth going over. I will start this particular reply with question #1. I will outline all the questions answered by the NIST. Below is quite a bit of information that I have taken the time to research, and I challenge you will do the same to support NIST’s hypothesis with your own research.
1. If the World Trade Center (WTC) towers were designed to withstand multiple impacts by Boeing 707 aircraft, why did the impact of individual 767s cause so much damage?

As stated in Section 5.3.2 of NIST NCSTAR 1, a document from the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey (PANYNJ) indicated that the impact of a [single, not multiple] Boeing 707 aircraft was analyzed during the design stage of the WTC towers. However, NIST investigators were unable to locate any documentation of the criteria and method used in the impact analysis and, therefore, were unable to verify the assertion that “… such collision would result in only local damage which could not cause collapse or substantial damage to the building.…”

The capability to conduct rigorous simulations of the aircraft impact, the growth and spread of the ensuing fires, and the effects of fires on the structure is a recent development. Since the approach to structural modeling was developed for the NIST WTC investigation, the technical capability available to the PANYNJ and its consultants and contactors to perform such analyses in the 1960s would have been quite limited in comparison to the capabilities brought to bear in the NIST investigation.

The damage from the impact of a Boeing 767 aircraft (which is about 20 percent bigger than a Boeing 707) into each tower is well documented in NCSTAR 1-2. The massive damage was caused by the large mass of the aircraft, their high speed and momentum, which severed the relatively light steel of the exterior columns on the impact floors. The results of the NIST impact analyses matched well with observations (from photos and videos and analysis of recovered WTC steel) of exterior damage and of the amount and location of debris exiting from the buildings. This agreement supports the premise that the structural damage to the towers was due to the aircraft impact and not to any alternative forces.



Fallacies: The NIST Computer Models of the possibility for collapse capability.

Pertinent issue: If NIST's computer models really do show collapse initiation, why don't they disclose those models to the public?

Based on the statement that “NIST investigators were unable to locate any documentation of the criteria and method used in the impact analysis and, therefore, were unable to verify the assertion that “… such collision would result in only local damage which could not cause collapse or substantial damage to the building.…”

I present this article, in which John Skilling, head structural engineer of the WTC states that “The building structure would still be there." Mr. Skilling emphasized that the supporting columns are closely spaced and even if several were disabled, the others would carry the load. He noted, however, that there are people who do know enough about building demolition to bring a structure like the Trade Center down.

Seattle Times, Saturday, February 27, 1993
http://archives.seattletimes.nwsour...web/vortex/display?slug=1687698&date=19930227

Frank De Martini, an architect who works as the World Trade Center’s construction manager, is interviewed for a History Channel documentary about the WTC towers. He says, “I believe the building probably could sustain multiple impacts of jetliners because this structure is like the mosquito netting on your screen door, this intense grid, and the jet plane is just a pencil puncturing the screen netting. It really does nothing to the screen netting.”

History Channel Interview: January 25, 2001
http://www.metacafe.com/watch/172833/history_channel_documentary_on_the_wtc/

Mr. Martini would later die when the tower collapses in his office on the 88th floor of the north tower when it is hit on 9/11 after helping more than 50 people escape.
Columbia Daily Tribute, August 29, 2003
http://archive.columbiatribune.com/2003/Aug/20030829News013.asp

The Richard Roth Telegram: According to the calculations of engineers, who worked on the Towers' design, all the columns on one side of a Tower could be cut, as well as the two corners and some of the columns on each adjacent side, and the building would still be strong enough to withstand a 100-mile-per-hour wind.
http://911research.wtc7.net/wtc/analysis/design.html

According to Hyman Brown, a University of Colorado civil engineering professor and the World Trade Center's construction manager: "meaning that more than nine-tenths of the columns at the same level would have to fail before the weight of the top could have overcome the support capacity of the remaining columns". The quote "massive damage caused by the large mass" of the plane is contrasted with the "light steel" of the building. In fact, the steel on a single floor of the tower was ten times the weight of a 767.

http://911research.wtc7.net/wtc/analysis/design.html

According to Matthys Levy chairman of Weidlinger Assoc) who did independent computer structural analysis study for Larry Silverman (and also had a set of
the drawings); states:
(a) the failure of the trusses did not cause the tower collapse,
(b) the fires did not lead to floor collapses,
(c) fire temperatures were lower than typical office fires, and
(d) "to create the vertical collapses that we saw in the Twin Towers all of the 47 very large columns that comprised the core had to fail at the same instant

http://www.plaguepuppy.net/public_html/Confronting the Evidence/what_failed_and_how.htm#levy

I am fully prepared to go into more detail but I am tired now and will resume tommorrow.
 

CanadianChic

Hall of Fame
Condi - 9/11 is a topic - as much as you'd like to teach the uninformed masses if we want to read/learn, we will simply check out the threads already in existence - there is no need for you to subcategorize this thread simply because you have alienated many of the posters and they will no longer acknowledge you. I'm sorry, but it's the truth.
 
Condi - 9/11 is a topic - as much as you'd like to teach the uninformed masses if we want to read/learn, we will simply check out the threads already in existence - there is no need for you to subcategorize this thread simply because you have alienated many of the posters and they will no longer acknowledge you. I'm sorry, but it's the truth.


I'm proud of every conspiracy theorist I alienate.
Because I despise low-life liars who stoop so low as to accuse a government they hate with the deliberate murder of 3,000 Americans.

Someone who accuses Bush with mass-murder must no be shocked to be called a low-life liar. Because lying is not that serious compared to mass-murder.

Condi
 

Swissv2

Hall of Fame
So take the research of the NIST scientists and test it.

If it is sound science, their hypothesis will stand.

Unfortunately they leave out an incredible amount of things from their report AND their research has been broken down by scientists all over the world that have said: "NIST reports are incomplete, inadequate, and unscientific".

When the latest official document gets broken down by peer review from like scientists, then your research fails.

I can say "Oh I am a Ph.D from Harvard, and Yale, and MIT" sure thats great. But try to prove that something will float in the air with no support - your "degree" means nothing.
 

CanadianChic

Hall of Fame
Condi, you're preaching to the choir. As I've already stated, if you read my posts you will soon realize my stance on this issue. Debate until the cows come home - all I'm saying is it is inappropriate to abuse the board in such a manner.
 

Swissv2

Hall of Fame
I would truly like to put this issue to a rest. We are not experts. At the very best, we can copy+paste media links and speculate all day. We can argue back and forth in a civil manner, and perhaps use our very limited experience to help us out. We all have our theories and opinions, that’s fine: that is why our posts have been allowed for open discussion provided it stayed in the appropriate sections.

But the bottom line is we will never resolve this argument unless the scientists and experts involved in this matter have resolved the issue.

If you are SO concerned about trying to force your opinions (even me) on other people - then you have reached a point where you cannot function as a proper member of a forum, MUCH LESS a tennis forum.

So if you are so passionate about your views, take this material to your EXPERTS (professors and professionals) and discuss this somewhere else. It has gone too far.

Condoleeza, you want to continue to discuss this? Come to my forums at http://www.tennis-scheduler.com and we can continue our debate. I offer you this proposal, if ANY of your posts get deleted you are free to leave my forum.

I am out.
 
You can resolve the matter in your own mind by making your own conclusion based upon what evidence we have.

Condi isn't going to change her tune. Don't waste your time. She's been nothing but rude since this discusssion began.
 

Roffey

Rookie
I'm proud of every conspiracy theorist I alienate.
Because I despise low-life liars who stoop so low as to accuse a government they hate with the deliberate murder of 3,000 Americans.

Someone who accuses Bush with mass-murder must no be shocked to be called a low-life liar. Because lying is not that serious compared to mass-murder.

Condi

A) Whoever said that all conspiracy theorists hate the gov't?

B) How many Iraqis has Bush Killed (albeit indirecty)?

And one more thing - It's basically indisputable that the official gov't report on the Kennedy assaassination is full of fallacies.
 
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