The real issue with the Serena/Ramos situation.....

[mellowyellow]

How could I possibly enlighten everyone on the meaning of your post when it's so poorly constructed that I couldn't decipher it.

You obviously had a thought when you attacked my comment? Yet you offered no reasoning... So please, enlighten everyone with your brilliance.

I don't need you to explain my post, that's very presumpsious, surely your comprehension is lacking if you think I was asking or suggesting for you to enlightenment everyone on my post lol. If anyone has a question to my position or point they are more than welcome to ask for clarification.

 

[PDJ]

Another squirrelly aspect of this whole "why didn't Carlos make an attempt to diffuse the situation by explaining to her that she was going to get another violation"... "extend an olive branch", "implore her not to escalate the situation" is that in this very tournament, ump Lahyani just got busted for going out of his way to help Kyrgios not get a tanking violation. In light of another ump getting in trouble for helping a player when they aren't supposed to, why is everyone demanding that Carlos help out Serena?

That's a really good point. Really good.

 

[Aussie Darcy]

If someone did that with 2 penalties already then yes they are dumb as hell and should have been docked a game.

That should’ve given Fed a penalty and then his racket smash later in that match would’ve been a point penalty but he didn’t get punished for his first outburst so instead the smash was just a warning. Another example of poorly enforced rules.

 

[AM75]

Wasn’t there a match where Kyrgios said something like that’s ****ing ******** and that Ramos has incredible bias and then Ramos let him get away with it?

Ramos is more strict than other umpires but the rules are so inconsistently applies even by Carlos. That’s the main issue in my opinion.

You mean this one?
"Tennis’s charismatic young rebel Nick Kyrgios complained that he is being singled out for punishment by umpires and officials when more established players – notably world No 1 Novak Djokovic - are escaping with their reputations intact. A rain-shortened schedule in Paris still gave Kyrgios enough time to complete a typically double-edged performance. It wasn’t so much the straight-sets victory over Marco Cecchinato that everyone noticed, more the code-violation warning for unsportsmanlike conduct and the ensuing bust-up with umpire Carlos Ramos."

 

[Aussie Darcy]

Another squirrelly aspect of this whole "why didn't Carlos make an attempt to diffuse the situation by explaining to her that she was going to get another violation"... "extend an olive branch", "implore her not to escalate the situation" is that in this very tournament, ump Lahyani just got busted for going out of his way to help Kyrgios not get a tanking violation. In light of another ump getting in trouble for helping a player when they aren't supposed to, why is everyone demanding that Carlos help out Serena?

Gently saying ‘if you keep talking like that I’ll give you a warning’ is a HUGE difference from hopping of your chair and saying you’ve seen how good that person can play and that they are better than this etc. Not comparable at all.

 

[disgruntledamsel]

I heard Wertheim talk about that very issue... apparently, violations are not to be called at critical moments... I usually think he is the voice of reason, but this just doesn't really fly. I forget what match it was, but a male player in this tournament got hit with the shotclock warning on game point, and McEnroe and someone else launched into a "why call that now" diatribe when clearly the clock had gone down to zero before the warning was called. I thought good grief, even with the shotclock showing a violation, you people still don't want violations called. Ridiculous. The whole reason for the shotclock was to take out discretion... and yet, the commentators think it shouldn't have been called because it was a critical point in the match. Unbelievable. You know these same commentators would be complaining if the warning was given in the beginning of the match, saying... come on, the match isn't even off the ground and they are calling the shotclock already, give these players a break, it's hot out there.. blah blah blah. There is no "good time" to get a violation, you get it when it's warranted. And yes, players know which umps are stricter than others, and which umps don't like to give advice about when to use a challenge, and which ones will tell you it was close, maybe you should challenge. That's where more experince on the court helps you out.

 

[Aussie Darcy]

You mean this one?
"Tennis’s charismatic young rebel Nick Kyrgios complained that he is being singled out for punishment by umpires and officials when more established players – notably world No 1 Novak Djokovic - are escaping with their reputations intact. A rain-shortened schedule in Paris still gave Kyrgios enough time to complete a typically double-edged performance. It wasn’t so much the straight-sets victory over Marco Cecchinato that everyone noticed, more the code-violation warning for unsportsmanlike conduct and the ensuing bust-up with umpire Carlos Ramos."

Think so. He was given a warning for yelling at a ball boy and then abused the umpire for that warning but didn’t get a point penalty for saying the umpire was biased and for the swearing.

 

[The Green Mile]

"Ugh, not this crap again....."

 

[Aussie Darcy]

"Ugh, not this crap again....."

Thought the same thing lmao. I believe the commentators said it’s his last year so no more drama for him.

 

[The Green Mile]

Thought the same thing lmao. I believe the commentators said it’s his last year so no more drama for him.

Yep. 39 years all up I think it was...

 

[ScentOfDefeat]

She did a lot more than call him a thief. She threatened him (stating he would never work one of her matches again), called him a liar, continued to harass him about owing her an apology and insisted he tell the crowd she didn’t receive coaching even though she had received a warning earlier and the issue was seemingly resolved. This continued for a long time (several games) and Ramos finally called her for a code violation after the thief comment. It’s awfully convenient of you to take one single word out of that tirade to minimize what occurred. Either you didn’t watch the match or you’re twisting the situation to suit your point. My guess would be the former given your total disregard for Ramos, who was visibly affected.

She was also fully aware that by doing this she would have the crowd in her favour and against the umpire.
The very same hostile environment that made it impossible for the referee to partake in the award ceremony, which is despicable for a tournament like the US Open.
But of course, people who feel they need to defend Williams until the end will probably say that "it serves him right" for what he did.
Serena was punished within the rules, Carlos Ramos was aggrieved outside the rules.
So for the people saying "oh boo-hoo Ramos" disparagingly, this is just a reminder that he was judged by the mob, whereas Serena was judged by the rules.
This was gamesmanship disguised as a righteous stand against injustice.

 

[Aussie Darcy]

Yep. 39 years all up I think it was...

I still like her but oh boy is she a pain in the ass. She’s not the hero everyone paints her out to be. Venus was a better champion for equal pay if we’re talking about the current crop and I’d rather her be the idol for young girls and such. Serena has just too much poor form with her treatment of fellow players and of others.

 

[AM75]

Think so. He was given a warning for yelling at a ball boy and then abused the umpire for that warning but didn’t get a point penalty for saying the umpire was biased and for the swearing.

Watched the clip on youtube. He ranted about Djokovic and said "b*llshit", but he didn't directly abuse Ramos.

 

[AM75]

I heard Wertheim talk about that very issue... apparently, violations are not to be called at critical moments... I usually think he is the voice of reason, but this just doesn't really fly. I forget what match it was, but a male player in this tournament got hit with the shotclock warning on game point, and McEnroe and someone else launched into a "why call that now" diatribe when clearly the clock had gone down to zero before the warning was called. I thought good grief, even with the shotclock showing a violation, you people still don't want violations called. Ridiculous. The whole reason for the shotclock was to take out discretion... and yet, the commentators think it shouldn't have been called because it was a critical point in the match. Unbelievable. You know these same commentators would be complaining if the warning was given in the beginning of the match, saying... come on, the match isn't even off the ground and they are calling the shotclock already, give these players a break, it's hot out there.. blah blah blah. There is no "good time" to get a violation, you get it when it's warranted. And yes, players know which umps are stricter than others, and which umps don't like to give advice about when to use a challenge, and which ones will tell you it was close, maybe you should challenge. That's where more experince on the court helps you out.

Wertheim is pathetic.

 

[Aussie Darcy]

Watched the clip on youtube. He ranted about Djokovic and said "b*llshit", but he didn't directly abuse Ramos.

I read the articles and he said unbelievable bias man. Something along those lines.

 

[disgruntledamsel]

Gently saying ‘if you keep talking like that I’ll give you a warning’ is a HUGE difference from hopping of your chair and saying you’ve seen how good that person can play and that they are better than this etc. Not comparable at all.

I'll agree that they don't seem quite comparable at first blush, however, what I don't know is whether after the Lahyani debacle, if the umps were instructed to not help the players period; were they instructed not to advise players at all? For all I know, that could be the case. We just don't know - and that Lahyani thing was a first that I know of, and the issue was that there was an appearance of preferential treatment to a player, which was arguably unfair to Herbert. Asking Ramos to explain to her that she's on the verge of getting a game penalty, after she told him not to talk to her anymore requires Ramos to go out of his way to help her out. I'll give you that explaining the rules is not the same as begging someone to give their best efforts, but Serena didn't want to hear from him, and the umps may have been instructed to apply the rules only - when had the Lahyani thing not happened, maybe Ramos would have advised her to be cautious. I just don't know. (And sorry, I can't help it, but if Ramos had warned her that she was going to lose a game, Serena likely would have claimed he was threatening her and say that now he wants to steal a game from her.).

 

[thrust]

She was also fully aware that by doing this she would have the crowd in her favour and against the umpire.
The very same hostile environment that made it impossible for the referee to partake in the award ceremony, which is despicable for a tournament like the US Open.
But of course, people who feel they need to defend Williams until the end will probably say that "it serves him right" for what he did.
Serena was punished within the rules, Carlos Ramos was aggrieved outside the rules.
This was gamesmanship disguised as a righteous stand against injustice.

Gamesmanship designed to upset and damage her Osaka's confidence and game.

 

[a10best]

https://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/ind...a-ramos-situation.626729/page-2#post-12718635

I have said many times on TTW, that given the situation I would have warned her on one of those violations. Yet, he was within his rights and he has done this with Novak and Nadal last year. There is no sexism or racism, just enforcing the rules. Serena knows he does that so she should not have been surprised & acted that way. There are certain NBA refs you don't mess with or you're t'd up. Same situation here.

Question you should also ask and place blame on too is why did the USO use a male ATP umpire in the final when Serena & NAOMI had female WTA umpires throughout the tournament? The female who ump'ed Delpo/Novak is usually Serena's umpire. Now, that is strange.

 

[ScentOfDefeat]

Gamesmanship designed to upset and damage her Osaka's confidence and game.

Of course.
"Who doesn't want to see Serena Williams win her historical 24th Slam instead of this other girl nobody ever heard of - and didn't even have the decency to choose America as her homeland - winning her first?"

 

[AM75]

Question you should also ask and place blame on too is why did the USO use a male ATP umpire in the final when Serena & NAOMI had female WTA umpires throughout the tournament? The female who ump'ed Delpo/Novak is usually Serena's umpire. Now, that is strange.

For USTA not be accused of sexism? (Would be my first assumption.)

 

[Maestroesque]

Its absolutely ridiculous, the one who has to deal with this is Osaka, at her press conference Serena stated that she didn't want her to feel bad about winning, and again mentioning the fact that now she's a Mom she has some sort of telepathy as to how other people are feeling. She messed up, went against the rules and made the whole situation about herself.

 

[AM75]

Its absolutely ridiculous, the one who has to deal with this is Osaka, at her press conference Serena stated that she didn't want her to feel bad about winning, and again mentioning the fact that now she's a Mom she has some sort of telepathy as to how other people are feeling. She messed up, went against the rules and made the whole situation about herself.

Serena never loses, she always wins. WTA should give her an award for the moral victory.

 

[coupergear]

Whether he was coaching or not isn’t the issue. Whether she “saw” it or not is irrelevant. These are questions that are missing the point.

The relevant question is, was it appropriate for the umpire to issue a code violation for that, given the situation and the precedents that have been established? Not CAN he do this, but SHOULD he have done it? And the general consensus (at least in the tennis community) is that it was over the top, and he was out of line. The fact that coaching happens frequently (including at this very tournament) routinely without ever being charged adds perspective that you can’t just sweep aside because that highlights a problem with bias in the sport. Most of the time when an umpire does decide to actually enforce this rule, the tradition is for them to issue a “soft warning” rather than a code violation! It’s usually only after repeat offenses that a player is issued an official coaching violation, and that is extremely rare! I see coaching happening in every match, but I can’t recall the last time I saw an actual code violation for it before this match.

The other problem is that he later docked Serena an entire game penalty for supposed “verbal abuse” after she called him a thief. And that to me is the most absurd abuse of authority that I’ve ever seen, ESPECIALLY when you consider what many of the male players do on a regular basis. There is a difference between using the F word towards and official, or calling them an “abortion” (which I’m pretty sure got applauded, and no code violation at all), and saying they are a thief for taking a point. The code violation generally has to actually rise to the severity of “abuse”, and in this case it didn’t. The fact that the umpire knew this would result in a game penalty adds credence to the “sexism” argument. Because in a grand slam final, you would expect an umpire to exercise maximum restraint, and attempt to affect the outcome of the match to the minimum extent possible. And we see this in men’s matches all the time. The question wasn’t was it in his right to do so (clearly it was). The question is, why would he go out of his way to enforce all rules (for this player) to the maximum penalty (both times) in this particular situation? Objectively, it doesn’t make any sense, and that’s why the tennis community (analysts, commentators, WTA and ATP) are backing her.

The tennis community is just protecting the golden goose. The coaching was so egregious it forced Ramos' hand, he clearly saw it, and it was right there on camera. If he doesn't call it he gets the film thrown in his face, he's open to criticism of blatantly favoring Serena, aiding and abetting a coach trying to get his player back in a match where she is being mauled. The coach admits freely that he was trying to coach, desperate to get his player to make adjustments. They were going to ask him that question whatever the outcome. So no call, and the sport looks rigged. Ramo's known as a stickler, he's not a soft warning kind of guy, from what I understand. But forget all that, it's not relevant.

He made the call. What is relevant is what happened afterwards. Navratilova makes a good point on this. After the 1st call, SW was satisfied with the interaction, seemingly understood the penalty, wasn't happy about it, but accepted it and moved on. She continued to play the match. Then she loses her momentum, frustrated at having been broken, throwing in 2 DFs, knew she was getting outplayed and had no answers, loses her cool, acts badly, bashes her racket, at this point, again Ramos hand is forced. Point penalty. She seriously seemed taken by surprise at this juncture. Did she not think she would get a point penalty? Then she just launches into ad hominem attacks and acts like a victim, going back to the earlier issue that had already been settled--so at this point she is verbally abusing the umpire, because she's no longer arguing the call in question. What is she arguing for at that point?

 

[byealmeens]

She was also fully aware that by doing this she would have the crowd in her favour and against the umpire.
The very same hostile environment that made it impossible for the referee to partake in the award ceremony, which is despicable for a tournament like the US Open.
But of course, people who feel they need to defend Williams until the end will probably say that "it serves him right" for what he did.
Serena was punished within the rules, Carlos Ramos was aggrieved outside the rules.
So for the people saying "oh boo-hoo Ramos" disparagingly, this is just a reminder that he was judged by the mob, whereas Serena was judged by the rules.
This was gamesmanship disguised as a righteous stand against injustice.

Excellent point. I mentioned earlier that I felt Ramos was the victim in this situation, because he seemed visibly bothered by what had transpired. But it’s Important to also mention how poorly he has ... and continues to be ... treated by the critics. His integrity and judgement are being questioned, as is his skill as an official ... not to mention the fact he’s being labeled as sexist. All of this for doing his job, something no one can question. He’s been consistent all year and deserves better than being verbally abused and escorted off the court.

 

[a10best]

For USTA not be accused of sexism? (Would be my first assumption.)

When groups try to be please everyone so they are not accused this is the result they get. let them splain that smart decision to Serena.

 

[ScentOfDefeat]

Excellent point. I mentioned earlier that I felt Ramos was the victim in this situation, because he seemed visibly bothered by what had transpired. But it’s Important to also mention how poorly he has ... and continues to be ... treated by the critics. His integrity and judgement are being questioned, as is his skill as an official ... not to mention the fact he’s being labeled as sexist. All of this for doing his job, something none can question. He’s been consistent all year and deserves better, even if you disagree with his perspective.

The way his not attending the ceremony is brushed off as unimportant is what really gets me.
It should feel like a disgrace for the USTA and the US Open but it's not even mentioned.
It's like the umpire doesn't even matter.
And he was the only one with a reason to be aggrieved.
It's really really sad when a mob mentality causes something that should never happen - even if we're just talking in term of protocol - and it's seen as perfectly ok.

 

[Ruark]

I think the real issue is that people are distorting the 'enforcing the rules by Ramos' as being racist and against female and a mother of a daughter.

Oh, yeah, she's a... gasp... MOM! Hey, they should be even more lenient with Federer: he has THREE kids! Oh, wait, he's a guy, so............

 

[Maestroesque]

Serena never loses, she always wins. WTA should give her award for the moral victory.

Its actually so frustrating reading some of the responses to this and watching the reactions from various sources, the rules are there to follow, her coach deemed it fit to break those rules because every other coach does it? what kind of dumbass logic is that? You're supposed to be a professional.

 

[Maestroesque]

Oh, yeah, she's a... gasp... MOM! Hey, they should be even more lenient with Federer: he has THREE kids! Oh, wait, he's a guy, so............

Hey! Men have feelings too you know!

 

[Maestroesque]

The way his not attending the ceremony is brushed off as unimportant is what really gets me.
It should feel like a disgrace for the USTA and the US Open but it's not even mentioned.
It's like the umpire doesn't even matter.
And he was the only one with a reason to be aggrieved.
It's really really sad when a mob mentality causes something that should never happen - even if we're just talking in term of protocol - and it's seen as perfectly ok.

Yeah he should've been there, its just a terrible set of circumstances overall.

 

[AM75]

Its actually so frustrating reading some of the responses to this and watching the reactions from various sources, the rules are there to follow, her coach deemed it fit to break those rules because every other coach does it? what kind of dumbass logic is that? You're supposed to be a professional.

all are equal but some are more equal than others

 

[Maestroesque]

all are equal but some are more equal than others

Man I haven't read that book in ages...

 

[HouTex]

I hope Ramos sues for slander... He would be well within his rights and the settlement could be huge!

This. If he sees any drop whatsoever in earnings he would have some of the best trial lawyers in the country lining up to take the case. Hell, this is slander per se. He wouldn't have to prove special damages. I really hope he sues. Can you imagine how bad Serena would look in a deposition and in court under good cross examination? She would threaten the opposing counsel with physical harm before it was over. I'd pay to see that trial.

 

[byealmeens]

The tennis community is just protecting the golden goose. The coaching was so egregious it forced Ramos' hand, he clearly saw it, and it was right there on camera. If he doesn't call it he gets the film thrown in his face, he's open to criticism of blatantly favoring Serena, aiding and abetting a coach trying to get his player back in a match where she is being mauled. The coach admits freely that he was trying to coach, desperate to get his player to make adjustments. They were going to ask him that question whatever the outcome. So no call, and the sport looks rigged. Ramo's known as a stickler, he's not a soft warning kind of guy, from what I understand. But forget all that, it's not relevant.

He made the call. What is relevant is what happened afterwards. Navratilova makes a good point on this. After the 1st call, SW was satisfied with the interaction, seemingly understood the penalty, wasn't happy about it, but accepted it and moved on. She continued to play the match. Then she loses her momentum, frustrated at having been broken, throwing in 2 DFs, knew she was getting outplayed and had no answers, loses her cool, acts badly, bashes her racket, at this point, again Ramos hand is forced. Point penalty. She seriously seemed taken by surprise at this juncture. Did she not think she would get a point penalty? Then she just launches into ad hominem attacks and acts like a victim, going back to the earlier issue that had already been settled--so at this point she is verbally abusing the umpire, because she's no longer arguing the call in question. What is she arguing for at that point?

I’ve been wondering this myself. I know others mention gamesmanship but it almost felt like there was more ... as if she thought he took the original violation back ... or expected him to do so at this point. It was bizarre.

 

[Ruark]

The other problem is that he later docked Serena an entire game penalty for supposed “verbal abuse” after she called him a thief. And that to me is the most absurd abuse of authority that I’ve ever seen, ESPECIALLY when you consider what many of the male players do on a regular basis. There is a difference between using the F word towards and official, or calling them an “abortion” (which I’m pretty sure got applauded, and no code violation at all), and saying they are a thief for taking a point.

Are you not even reading the other posts? Did you even watch the match? The verbal abuse penalty was not just about calling him a thief.

 

[a10best]

This. If he sees any drop whatsoever in earnings he would have some of the best trial lawyers in the country lining up to take the case. Hell, this is slander per se. He wouldn't have to prove special damages. I really hope he sues. Can you imagine how bad Serena would look in a deposition and in court under good cross examination? She would threaten the opposing counsel with physical harm before it was over. I'd pay to see that trial.

Ramos should get in touch with Genie Bouchard's lawyer. Easy case and I'm sure a greedy lawyer is already on it.

 

[Ruark]

... at her press conference Serena stated that she didn't want her to feel bad about winning, and again mentioning the fact that now she's a Mom...

Oh, cripes... Serena was SO condescending towards Osaka after the match. There, there, little girl, don't cry now.....here, let me give you a huggie-poo.

 

[Rhino]

Best womens final I have seen in literally years. Thank you Naomi, thank you Carlos! And in a strange kind of way, thank you Serena.

 

[Maestroesque]

Oh, cripes... Serena was SO condescending towards Osaka after the match. There, there, little girl, don't cry now.....here, let me give you a huggie-poo.

"Maybe it's the Mom in me..." Never have I cringed that much ever.

 

[flanker2000fr]

I understand what you're saying but I disagree, I know that is something that's practiced in every sport with refs but in this case no one should be analizing where they can bend the rules, they should follow them with no exceptions and that was the problem with Serena, she's used to get away with coaching or whatever rule she's bend over time, this time she wasn't allowed to get away with it and couldn't handle it, now the only argument she can try to pass as something resembling to a valid argument is sexism, the funny thing is that she can't make a case in this match because she was playing against a woman who is half Japanese and half Haitian so she has to make the case against the ATP players, is easiest to pick an "enemy" who is a white slime of a man so she can get more people behind her cause.

Or she could just follow the rules, admit to the evident coaching and focus on her game.

In the end Ramos is now an enemy of all black people, women and hilariously, mothers, meanwhile Osaka can't enjoy the most important achievement of her career because diva Serena has to make it about her as always.

It makes miss Venus even more.

Well, I actually agree with everything you wrote, Serena's behavior included. And yes, rules are there to be enforced. I too believe that players have been getting away with too much for too long. Not any one of them is bigger than the sport.

My point is / was that tennis, and tennis refereeing, is a human activity and therefore prone to subjectivity or personal style. At least until such time that referees are replaced by robots. With this in mind, surely it is not too much asking from highly paid professionals to do their homework and adjust to the type of refereeing they are getting. I am not talking about bending the rules, simply adjusting to the ref's style, instead of trying to bully the ref into submission, with obvious negative effects on the player themselves and the game in general.

 

[captainbryce]

Please, can you give us examples of male players who abused umpires and got away with it?

I feel a goalpost shift coming soon. Tell me, how many examples do you need before you acknowledge being wrong?

Daniil Medvedev was fined a huge amount of money after his infamous row with the umpire when he threw coins at him even though he has lost the match, and he was disqualified from a tournament for assuming the black umpire is friends with Donald Young who is also black. Only this year Kyrgios was fined multiply times (once for playing with the water bottle FFS), Paire was fined for his tantrums, some minor male player at the ITF tournaments are warned and fined left and right for gestures, smashed rackets, swearing and so on. Probably you should be informed better.

Um, I think YOU need to pay more attention to what the argument actually is before you start attacking straw men again! Because the argument isn’t about male players not being penalized for “tantrums”, or “swearing”, or “gestures”, or “throwing coins”. Serena did NONE of that. She called the umpire a thief for taking a point. That does not rise to the level of “abuse” as anything you just mentioned and it’s ridiculous to compare them. Conversely, calling an umpire an ABORTION or a FREAKING IDIOT, or saying DON’T F—KING TELL ME THE RULES is a little more flagrantly abusive, yet they get no “abuse” violation for doing so. So your argument is full of holes (probably because it misses the point so spectacularly).

And sorry, to say "you gave me a warning, and I'm so f**king p*ssed at you" is not the same as to say to the umpire that he's "a thief".

You’re right. The former is clearly much worse since it involves the use of profanity!

The latter is an abuse as it's stated in the grand slam rules book, the former is also an abuse, but exactly this kind would be open for interpretations.

Well if it’s so freaking open for interpretation, then what the hell is your point? Because according to the interpretation of all of the analysts who were watching (Billie Jean King, John McEnroe, Chris Evert, Mary Jo Fernandez, Andy Roddick, and James Blake), it was over-officiating and uncalled for. What makes your interpretation more correct?

 

[captainbryce]

The issue is whether rules “should” be enforced?? Maybe YOU should give all of us a break. Regardless of your opinion (or others), rules are written to be enforced. This and all rules in the sport “should” be enforced. If they are not then change is required to assure that they are ...

Right. Rules should be enforced when Serena Williams (coach) violates them, and ignored or sometimes enforced softly when everyone else violates them. Cause...that’s “fair”.

 

[swizzy]

you can't defend Serena for her outburst.. it was cringe worthy behavior for anyone. i never really expected the third violation. i feel it was warranted, but given the fact that it would cost the player a game in the final of a major.. you just figured ramos was going to continue taking the assault until the match ended. she is not the victim here.. and the media has largely stood with her. i disagree

 

[Steady Eddy]

is the fact that people are so shocked to see an umpire actually enforce the rules. We are so used to seeing umpires let things slide that we aren’t used to seeing this. I, for one, find Ramos’ officiating refreshing. I’ve never bought into the whole "let them play" idea which usually means don’t call penalties. If they break a rule, call them on it. Otherwise, why are there rules in the first place?

Disagree. I doubt that I'll persuade you, but people pay to see the players play, not to see nobody officials get indignant.

If Ramos is too sensitive to do the job right, they should get somebody else.

Also, they'd had a pattern of ignoring coaching. If they decide that they want to start enforcing the rule, okay. But to break with your tradition, and START enforcing it on a final of a slam is crazy.

Being a good umpire is an art, not just a science. People who say "rules are rules" are wrong. The point of the rules is to have a match. So "rules" can never come before what put them there in the first place.

Years ago, calling a foot fault for the FIRST time in the match, on the point before set point was ludicrous. The Open needs to get a staff that knows what it is doing. Well, my humble opinion, anyway.

 

[Rhino]

How anyone can side with Serena throughout this, just blows my mind.

 

[ohiostate124]

Disagree. I doubt that I'll persuade you, but people pay to see the players play, not to see nobody officials get indignant.

If Ramos is too sensitive to do the job right, they should get somebody else.

Also, they'd had a pattern of ignoring coaching. If they decide that they want to start enforcing the rule, okay. But to break with your tradition, and START enforcing it on a final of a slam is crazy.

Being a good umpire is an art, not just a science. People who say "rules are rules" are wrong. The point of the rules is to have a match. So "rules" can never come before what put them there in the first place.

Years ago, calling a foot fault for the FIRST time in the match, on the point before set point was ludicrous. The Open needs to get a staff that knows what it is doing. Well, my humble opinion, anyway.

Yeah, you’re not going to persuade me by making things up.

 

[HouTex]

How anyone can side with Serena throughout this, just blows my mind.

Completely agree. I have to question the motives of anyone who would back her in this. Fewer things in life are this clear.

 

[Bartelby]

The opposition to her behaviour is composed of 5% genuine tennis fans and the 95% with other axes to grind. Fewer things in life are this clear as well.

Completely agree. I have to question the motives of anyone who would back her in this. Fewer things in life are this clear.

 

[mellowyellow]

"Axes to grind", IE I have nothing relevant to say but want to support a woman and further along my motives of feminism and leftist socialist ideals facts be damned.

 

[Rhino]

The opposition to her behaviour is composed of 5% genuine tennis fans and the 95% with other axes to grind. Fewer things in life are this clear as well.

Just ask yourself these three questions:

1. Did Mouratoglou coach during the final? Yes
2. Did Serena commit racquet abuse? Yes
3. Did Serena verbally abuse Ramos? Yes

Case closed.