Tie Off Knots-Poly Strings

sp1derman

Professional
When tying off cross or mains using poly strings I traditionally use a 2xhalf hitch or double half hitch. When I try and use a Wilson pro especially in tighter areas I find the string kinks and I can't rock to tighten or it kinks and I break it. Is this mostly user error?

What is your favorite tie off knot for poly strings?


Thanks,

Sp1dy
 

kkm

Hall of Fame
IMHO it's user error, the pro knot is easy to tie and I've never managed to have a break.
 

Irvin

Talk Tennis Guru
I believe it is procedure for both a knot that does not cinch up good or breaks when tying off. My preferred knot is the pParnell for all tie offs. You need to pull down the first half hitch until there is just a small loop on the anchor string. For your second loop come up through that loop and have the tag end between the larger loop and you. Tightn the first loop with a firm pull do not rock it back and forth. For the second loop you really need to make sure there are not kinks or twist in the string. It should make a smooth round loop. From below pull the loop down so when you tighten the tag end it only pulls the large loop up and not around the knot and anchor string. If you pull it around the anchor string string friction cand burn the other knot or anchor string. When you tighten the second loop it does nit have to be real tight, you just trying to make the finish neat so the tag end rest up against the frame. The first knot and the stiffness of th string is what holds.

If you want to pull extra tension on the last string or two that's fine, although I don't think it is needed. Do not try to eliminate drawback by over tightening the knot. A good Parnell will hold very well especially with poly. Over tightening the knot just risks knot failure in one way or another.

EDIT: Try to eliminate kinks in the string caused by using a push weave or a needle and tread type stitch to run the last few crosses. If there are any kinks in the string end cut that portion off if you can before tying your knot. If you try pulling the last few crosses at least instead of pushing you will have a much smoother string when you finish. Any kinks in a poly string wil act like a saw when pulled through tight space like a knot.
 
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am1899

Legend
Another vote for the Parnell knot.

This isnt exclusive to poly...but FWIW when you're ready to release the clamp, it's a good idea to hold the tag end of the knot firm when you release the clamp - I use a starting clamp. No need to "reef" on it...just firm pressure.
 

sp1derman

Professional
Thanks for all the tips, especially when it takes paragraphs to type about something that takes two seconds to do!

@Irvin I feel I owe you money so how about an idea instead! I'll bet there are wealthy people who want to learn to string badly enough to pay/fly in an expert to give them lessons. Not sure about the market for this type of thing! Anyway, thanks a lot!
 

Irvin

Talk Tennis Guru
Thanks for all the tips, especially when it takes paragraphs to type about something that takes two seconds to do!

@Irvin I feel I owe you money so how about an idea instead! I'll bet there are wealthy people who want to learn to string badly enough to pay/fly in an expert to give them lessons. Not sure about the market for this type of thing! Anyway, thanks a lot!
No problem and thanks. I was thinking about doing a video on this maybe this week.
 

lwto

Hall of Fame
You use:
Pro Knot, when there is very little room to work with
Single half hitch, when your lazy and don't really know how to string
Double half hitch, Cause that's all you know and have never bothered to learn the correct way to tie off.
Parnell knot, for everything, except, when you need to use a Pro knot.
 

RJYU

Rookie
You use:
Double half hitch, Cause that's all you know and have never bothered to learn the correct way to tie off.

So you're saying that a simple double half hitch is incorrect? I find that statement interesting. I used a simple double half hitch for over 10 years of tournament stringing, and never had a failure. I only switched to a different knot when it was required by a company I formerly was employed by. Sure, there a other safer knots than a double half hitch, but if you know what you're doing, a double half hitch is just as safe and effective as a pro knot or Parnell knot. Granted, those two knots are both safer for an anchor string if you are unsure of yourself so I would probably now recommend them over a simple half hitch. A lot of great stringers have spent their lives using the simple double half hitch. To dismiss it as incorrect is an insult to some really accomplished stringers that I've known over the years.
 

Shroud

G.O.A.T.
When tying off cross or mains using poly strings I traditionally use a 2xhalf hitch or double half hitch. When I try and use a Wilson pro especially in tighter areas I find the string kinks and I can't rock to tighten or it kinks and I break it. Is this mostly user error?

What is your favorite tie off knot for poly strings?


Thanks,

Sp1dy
The only knot I ever use is parnell. Its the only one I know!
 

Irvin

Talk Tennis Guru
@RJYU I'm not an advocate of the double half hitch either. I also used the DHH for a long time before I switched to the pro knot then switched to the Parnell. You could say that all three of those knots are safe knots if the stringer knows what they are doing. Most beginning stringers don't know what they are doing and for that reason I would not recommend the DHH. The DHH is also a thin knot and when you have worn grommets can easily slide into the grommet. Being thin the DHH has a way of working itself into the grommet and wearing them out. IMO the easiest knot for a novice to use is the best knot for them, and I think the Parnell fills that need.
 

RJYU

Rookie
@RJYU I'm not an advocate of the double half hitch either. I also used the DHH for a long time before I switched to the pro knot then switched to the Parnell. You could say that all three of those knots are safe knots if the stringer knows what they are doing. Most beginning stringers don't know what they are doing and for that reason I would not recommend the DHH. The DHH is also a thin knot and when you have worn grommets can easily slide into the grommet. Being thin the DHH has a way of working itself into the grommet and wearing them out. IMO the easiest knot for a novice to use is the best knot for them, and I think the Parnell fills that need.

I agree that there are advantages to the Parnell and pro knot. There are not any advantages to the simple double half hitch, so I'd suggest one of those other two knots to anyone learning how to string. The funny thing is that I have no idea if I tie either a Parnell knot or a pro knot or something totally different. I've never really compared my knot to those two. I do know that I tie a different knot than Nate or Glynn. I'm mocked by both of them at the ugliness of my knot, but I do like the fact that its slightly larger than their's so there is less chance for it to pull deeper in the grommet and possibly split it.
 

kkm

Hall of Fame
I agree that there are advantages to the Parnell and pro knot. There are not any advantages to the simple double half hitch, so I'd suggest one of those other two knots to anyone learning how to string. The funny thing is that I have no idea if I tie either a Parnell knot or a pro knot or something totally different. I've never really compared my knot to those two. I do know that I tie a different knot than Nate or Glynn. I'm mocked by both of them at the ugliness of my knot, but I do like the fact that its slightly larger than their's so there is less chance for it to pull deeper in the grommet and possibly split it.

Nate's seems to be the pro knot.

I saw a Fed FO 09 racquet at the tennis HOF. Some of the gut mains had snapped thx to Father Time. At least one of the grommets where the mains were tied off (the knots were not pro knots) was sort of split.
 
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lwto

Hall of Fame
So you're saying that a simple double half hitch is incorrect? I find that statement interesting. I used a simple double half hitch for over 10 years of tournament stringing, and never had a failure. I only switched to a different knot when it was required by a company I formerly was employed by. Sure, there a other safer knots than a double half hitch, but if you know what you're doing, a double half hitch is just as safe and effective as a pro knot or Parnell knot. Granted, those two knots are both safer for an anchor string if you are unsure of yourself so I would probably now recommend them over a simple half hitch. A lot of great stringers have spent their lives using the simple double half hitch. To dismiss it as incorrect is an insult to some really accomplished stringers that I've known over the years.

Thanks for your response and I can see and understand where you would have an issue with what I said, perhaps I was a little to blunt in my post.

Fact is, I was taught using the double half hitch, my tutor would pull with all his might at the end, Jam a awl into the grommet and then tie it off with two single half hitche's. The first half hitch would clinch and anchor, the 2nd half hitch would just loop through and since there was no pressure on it, would just hang there, taut by only the pull the the stringer imparted on it. The stringer than removed the wedged in awl and perhaps the knot slipped through the grommet abit or not, but when the clamps were released, more than likely there was a initial slip of the knot into the grommet.

I quickly realized that 1 I didn't like wedging the awl into the grommet as it took some feel, you needed it in tight enough not to let the string slip and not so tight as to possibly damage the frame. 2, I don't like to see the single part of the half hitch slide up into and gaping the grommet, and finally, It just looks sloppy to see a loose dangling 2nd half hitch basically doing nothing, but dangling.

There is another issue I find with the double half hitch - you cannot inherently taut a double half hitch without having someway of keeping it taut(awl). With a Parnell or pro knot, you can rock and cinch easily.
Finally, it's a barometer to me, when I see a racquet from a professional stringing store and it has half hitches I just see it as being some home brew string job from someone not staying up to date with the latest stringing methods.

Yeah so I do think using double half hitch's is incorrect and if it's insulting, I apologize but perhaps those that still use the DHH should think about different solutions.

BTW as a stringer, I find, when someone that brings in a job with DHH, it makes my job so much easier as I can explain how they probably jammed a big awl into their expensive racquet and that see these big gaping holes in your grommet? Well thats because of these knots sliding into the frame.. so it does benefit me.
 

RJYU

Rookie
Thanks for your response and I can see and understand where you would have an issue with what I said, perhaps I was a little to blunt in my post.

Fact is, I was taught using the double half hitch, my tutor would pull with all his might at the end, Jam a awl into the grommet and then tie it off with two single half hitche's. The first half hitch would clinch and anchor, the 2nd half hitch would just loop through and since there was no pressure on it, would just hang there, taut by only the pull the the stringer imparted on it. The stringer than removed the wedged in awl and perhaps the knot slipped through the grommet abit or not, but when the clamps were released, more than likely there was a initial slip of the knot into the grommet.

I quickly realized that 1 I didn't like wedging the awl into the grommet as it took some feel, you needed it in tight enough not to let the string slip and not so tight as to possibly damage the frame. 2, I don't like to see the single part of the half hitch slide up into and gaping the grommet, and finally, It just looks sloppy to see a loose dangling 2nd half hitch basically doing nothing, but dangling.

There is another issue I find with the double half hitch - you cannot inherently taut a double half hitch without having someway of keeping it taut(awl). With a Parnell or pro knot, you can rock and cinch easily.
Finally, it's a barometer to me, when I see a racquet from a professional stringing store and it has half hitches I just see it as being some home brew string job from someone not staying up to date with the latest stringing methods.

Yeah so I do think using double half hitch's is incorrect and if it's insulting, I apologize but perhaps those that still use the DHH should think about different solutions.

BTW as a stringer, I find, when someone that brings in a job with DHH, it makes my job so much easier as I can explain how they probably jammed a big awl into their expensive racquet and that see these big gaping holes in your grommet? Well thats because of these knots sliding into the frame.. so it does benefit me.

Well, then you'd think Lucien Nogues of Babolat is an absolute amateur. He's probably forgotten more about stringing natural gut than we all know. He once showed me that you could tie off natural gut with a single half hitch! At the Miami event back in the mid-nineties, he once told me a single half hitch was sufficient as long as it was done by someone who knew what they were doing. I thought he was crazy. He proceeded to do 5 racquets with all single half hitch tie offs. All those racquets were played and never had any issues. He did say not to do single half hitches with synthetics a since they are too slippery.

Anyway, have fun stringing!
 

lwto

Hall of Fame
Well, then you'd think Lucien Nogues of Babolat is an absolute amateur. He's probably forgotten more about stringing natural gut than we all know. He once showed me that you could tie off natural gut with a single half hitch! At the Miami event back in the mid-nineties, he once told me a single half hitch was sufficient as long as it was done by someone who knew what they were doing. I thought he was crazy. He proceeded to do 5 racquets with all single half hitch tie offs. All those racquets were played and never had any issues. He did say not to do single half hitches with synthetics a since they are too slippery.

Anyway, have fun stringing!

Not saying, didn't say, you couldn't do it without issues. In fact Natural gut is probably one of the better strings to use a SHH if you were to go that way since it's rather sticky.
But the ease at which it takes to tie off with a parnell knot, there's no reason not to use it.
 

kkm

Hall of Fame
Tying knots with natural gut is really different from tying knots with poly. Natural gut really cinches up without you needing to pull super hard. You have to pull poly a bit more to make a nice tight knot. Natural gut can be a bit oily, but it's not slippery, if that makes any sense.

It is possible to tie a DHH or other knot without needing to jam an awl in to reduce slack. Like if you string the pre-2015 Pure Drive. If you string 2-piece like they say and you don't do the Yonex loop, you go from hole 9 to 6 to tie off the mains. That's pretty far, and the two strings in hole 6 will be pointed in the same direction, so you won't have one of them kind of keeping the other in place. If you'd take an awl and make hole 7 bigger before you begin stringing and tie off in hole 7 the strings would point in opposite directions and one would kind of keep the other in place. What you do if you're going from 9 to 6 is take the string you're tying off and pull it to the other side of the anchor string before tying off, and that pretty much takes away the slack and you won't be tempted to jam an awl in any more. My explanation is probably clear as mud, does it make sense?

Respect to Lucien Noguès and everybody stringing up to the mid-90s, but those days were way diferent from now. Then you had lots of nice soft gut to work with. Not too long after that Guga Kuerten and the poly era began. AFAIK Babolat came up with 50-50 to minimize the "handling" of the gut in the sweet spot, but they realized that starting the crosses in the middle might not be such a great idea for the frame. Babolat also recommended prestretching everything when they first came out with machines that actually had a prestretch feature.

Lucien Noguès has been an actual tournament stringer, but how about Ron Rocchi - what's his tournament stringing track record? Sure he was USRSA's stringer of the year and maybe he did the predecessor to the MRT, but besides the self-styled master stringer title I've never seen any evidence that he's ever actually strung at a tournament.
 

RJYU

Rookie
Tying knots with natural gut is really different from tying knots with poly. Natural gut really cinches up without you needing to pull super hard. You have to pull poly a bit more to make a nice tight knot. Natural gut can be a bit oily, but it's not slippery, if that makes any sense.

It is possible to tie a DHH or other knot without needing to jam an awl in to reduce slack. Like if you string the pre-2015 Pure Drive. If you string 2-piece like they say and you don't do the Yonex loop, you go from hole 9 to 6 to tie off the mains. That's pretty far, and the two strings in hole 6 will be pointed in the same direction, so you won't have one of them kind of keeping the other in place. If you'd take an awl and make hole 7 bigger before you begin stringing and tie off in hole 7 the strings would point in opposite directions and one would kind of keep the other in place. What you do if you're going from 9 to 6 is take the string you're tying off and pull it to the other side of the anchor string before tying off, and that pretty much takes away the slack and you won't be tempted to jam an awl in any more. My explanation is probably clear as mud, does it make sense?

Respect to Lucien Noguès and everybody stringing up to the mid-90s, but those days were way diferent from now. Then you had lots of nice soft gut to work with. Not too long after that Guga Kuerten and the poly era began. AFAIK Babolat came up with 50-50 to minimize the "handling" of the gut in the sweet spot, but they realized that starting the crosses in the middle might not be such a great idea for the frame. Babolat also recommended prestretching everything when they first came out with machines that actually had a prestretch feature.

Lucien Noguès has been an actual tournament stringer, but how about Ron Rocchi - what's his tournament stringing track record? Sure he was USRSA's stringer of the year and maybe he did the predecessor to the MRT, but besides the self-styled master stringer title I've never seen any evidence that he's ever actually strung at a tournament.

Yup. I agree with most of what you said. I will say that gut stringing back then was more difficult than now. Gut was more easily damaged then because the coating wasn't as good. Or you'd even have to string uncoated gut at times which was even more difficult. It used to be easy to tell a bad stringer from the way a natural gut job ended up. Nowadays, the gut and coating are so good, a bad stringer won't be punished by gut anymore.
 

kkm

Hall of Fame
Yup. I agree with most of what you said. I will say that gut stringing back then was more difficult than now. Gut was more easily damaged then because the coating wasn't as good. Or you'd even have to string uncoated gut at times which was even more difficult. It used to be easy to tell a bad stringer from the way a natural gut job ended up. Nowadays, the gut and coating are so good, a bad stringer won't be punished by gut anymore.

The last time I strung straight-up uncoated VS gut was 5 years ago. Over the last 6/7 years more of the normal (coated) sets of VS Team 1.25 and VS Touch 1.30 and 1.35 I've been getting are kind of "dry." What you said about bad stringers not being punished, I also see from stringers who maybe learned to string on poly, and no matter what they learned to string on, string pretty much only poly.
 

sp1derman

Professional
Strung a few racquets this week and successfully used parnell knots for all my tie offs. Once you get the hang of it they're pretty easy and convenient!
 
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