Tips for aiming your serve?

[fuzzybabybunny]

What's the secret to aiming your serve and how should you think about it? As a general rule, the ball goes in the direction that the string bed is pointing at the moment of contact. If you're a righty, at the start of every serve the string bed should be facing the left side of the court and it should rotate from left to right as you pronate through the serve motion.

So say that the string bed facing the left is 0 degrees and the string bed facing the right is 180 degrees. String bed facing straight out in front is 90 degrees.

If you're on the deuce side and want to hit down the middle, do you time your contact so that the strike occurs at 90 degree pronation? And if you want to hit out wide to the left, do you time contact so that it strikes at like 75 degree pronation?

On the ad side, hitting down the middle would have contact at 90 degrees of pronation and hitting wide to the right would be contact at 115 degrees of pronation?

Is this how aiming works on the serve? You're trying to time the contact of the ball with the exact angle of pronation that you want *as your wrist is in the process of rotating counter-clockwise*?

 

[movdqa]

I know that this might not be too helpful but I don't really think that much about how I hit the ball for location. I do think about the motion a little more when I decide on what kind of serve to hit. If you go out and practice, you get some muscle memory as to what you're doing and observe where the ball goes. There are so many moving parts to the serve that I think that you need to have it grooved and maybe just think of a few things like bending, watching the ball, etc.

 

[Gazelle]

Overanalyzing. If you have such a superior brain that it can think about what exact degree you hit the ball, while doing the already very complex service motion, sure, go ahead.

The less mentally endowed aim by thinking where they want to hit the ball, not by changing anything in the mechanics (these will change automatically by aiming a certain spot).

 

[OnTheLine]

I hate to sound all Zen about it ... but I picture where I want the serve to go (T, Wide, Body ....) and when I serve, it just goes where I was thinking.

I fear that if I mentally break this down to "how" I will lose the ability.

 

[fuzzybabybunny]

I understand the whole "zen" and "thinking where to aim the ball" thing but it doesn't really work for me.

Say I'm on the deuce side. I can't tell you how many times in the past I've gone "OK, I'm hitting down the T" or "I'm hitting out wide" and my serve still lands in the middle of the box. I'm even trying to visualize the point ahead of time. It doesn't matter which side of the court I'm serving from and how mentally prepared I am of where I want the ball to go - the ball always lands in the middle if it goes in.

Obviously this gets me frustrated and I don't know what I'm doing wrong.


Edit:

So what I'm trying to say is that if I think about putting it somewhere, it lands in the middle anyway. If I don't think about anything and just serve, it lands in the middle as well, lol.

The same thing used to happen for all of my groundstrokes (literally everything went down the middle) until I learned that I really need to be focusing on timing my strikes differently for different directions - for a forehand, hit it early for a left shot, hit it later for a right shot.

 

[movdqa]

I understand the whole "zen" and "thinking where to aim the ball" thing but it doesn't really work for me.

Say I'm on the deuce side. I can't tell you how many times in the past I've gone "OK, I'm hitting down the T" or "I'm hitting out wide" and my serve still lands in the middle of the box. I'm even trying to visualize the point ahead of time. It doesn't matter which side of the court I'm serving from and how mentally prepared I am of where I want the ball to go - the ball always lands in the middle if it goes in.

Obviously this gets me frustrated and I don't know what I'm doing wrong.

Do you practice your serve? How about hitting 15 minutes to one corner and then 15 minutes to the other?

 

[fuzzybabybunny]

Do you practice your serve? How about hitting 15 minutes to one corner and then 15 minutes to the other?

This definitely has something to do with it. Serves are a pain to practice unless you have a bucket of balls, which I never did. Now that I have a membership at a club I can practice this but I'm wary of accidentally developing yet another incorrect stroke by just trying to "figure it out on my own." I'm not naturally gifted by any means and figuring it out on my own has certainly crippled my tennis for a decade and a half with incorrect technique and now I'm trying to unlearn years of muscle memory.

 

[movdqa]

This definitely has something to do with it. Serves are a pain to practice unless you have a bucket of balls, which I never did. Now that I have a membership at a club I can practice this but I'm wary of accidentally developing yet another incorrect stroke by just trying to "figure it out on my own." I'm not naturally gifted by any means and figuring it out on my own has certainly crippled my tennis for a decade and a half with incorrect technique and now I'm trying to unlearn years of muscle memory.

If you have a GoPro, digital camera or decent smartphone, you should be able to video yourself serving. Post the video and create a thread requesting serving advice and our resident serving expert, Chas Tennis, should be able to provide you with the advice you need.

 

[OnTheLine]

Without serve practice, any answer that anyone gives will be without meaning.

As much of a pain as it can be to practice serves, I have found it very necessary and it sets me (and my serve) apart from others in the league.

And actually, going out and hitting 50 serves feels quite good.

 

[Bender]

Pretend that you have a cheating ex standing at any of the proposed target spots.

Should be easy after that.

 

[Raul_SJ]

Is this how aiming works on the serve? You're trying to time the contact of the ball with the exact angle of pronation that you want *as your wrist is in the process of rotating counter-clockwise*?

That is what physically happens. The racquet approaches edge on and only faces the target for a millisecond (assuming you are using the correct Continental grip). And there is only a ~2 degree tilt difference between a T and Wide serve.

Whether one is physically capable of directly feeling that subtle difference is another issue. Likely not, IMO.

Some coaches teach it as a throwing analogy. Throw to first base, throw to second base, and throw to third base, will generate the three locations... That has helped me a little bit (although it's not nearly as easy as throwing a ball to a location -- but that is the goal)... Thinking of the racquet face angle did not help me.

Other possible cues: Pronate earlier,later. Hit the right or left side of the ball.

 

[fuzzybabybunny]

That is what physically happens. The racquet approaches edge on and only faces the target for a millisecond (assuming you are using the correct Continental grip). And there is only a ~2 degree tilt difference between a T and Wide serve.

Whether one is physically capable of directly feeling that subtle difference is another issue. Likely not, IMO.

Some coaches teach it as a throwing analogy. Throw to first base, throw to second base, and throw to third base, will generate the three locations... That has helped me a little bit (although it's not nearly as easy as throwing a ball to a location -- but that is the goal)... Thinking of the racquet face angle did not help me.

Other possible cues: Pronate earlier,later. Hit the right or left side of the ball.

K, I'll try the throwing analogy next time I practice... But when I'm throwing a ball I'm looking at the target. When I'm serving I'm looking up at the sky. Should I first practice by throwing tennis balls to where I want them to go while looking up at the sky?

 

[2HBH-DTL]

i just think about where i want to serve it to and then serve it. it'll go there 99% of the time. whether it's in or out, it'll still be close. try not to over think it because it'll drive you crazy. there are other things that will happen on court that will drive you crazy so don't let that be one of them lol.

 

[chikoo]

What's the secret to aiming your serve and how should you think about it? As a general rule, the ball goes in the direction that the string bed is pointing at the moment of contact. If you're a righty, at the start of every serve the string bed should be facing the left side of the court and it should rotate from left to right as you pronate through the serve motion.

So say that the string bed facing the left is 0 degrees and the string bed facing the right is 180 degrees. String bed facing straight out in front is 90 degrees.

If you're on the deuce side and want to hit down the middle, do you time your contact so that the strike occurs at 90 degree pronation? And if you want to hit out wide to the left, do you time contact so that it strikes at like 75 degree pronation?

On the ad side, hitting down the middle would have contact at 90 degrees of pronation and hitting wide to the right would be contact at 115 degrees of pronation?

Is this how aiming works on the serve? You're trying to time the contact of the ball with the exact angle of pronation that you want *as your wrist is in the process of rotating counter-clockwise*?

I follow the simple rule - Keep your eyes on the target. Your body will adjust accordingly. This is like driving a car. Your car will automatically go where your eyes are, for your brain & hands will coordinate to take you there.

 

[SinjinCooper]

Develop a good, reliable, repeatable motion, and then line up such that you aim it at the same part of the box every time. Alter where it goes by adding more slice or flattening it out.

I line up every serve such that a flat bomb goes to the backhand corner. If I want to go wide, I slice it from the same stance. If I want to go to the body, I topslice from the same stance. Three locations, three spins, one stance, very good disguise.

I recommend most players develop a topspin serve to the right corner instead of worrying about bombing it flat, however. Even though learning the flat serve motion is crucial to the development of the serve, it's best for most players to discard it once they have their mechanics down. It's just not high-percentage enough for most players.

 

[Deleted member 23235]

I hate to sound all Zen about it ... but I picture where I want the serve to go (T, Wide, Body ....) and when I serve, it just goes where I was thinking.

I fear that if I mentally break this down to "how" I will lose the ability.

100%
honestly, it feels like "the force" if you visualize, say hitting a cone... and then you do it! doesn't happen often, but when it does it feels like i have super powers.
for me it's 100% a feel thing...
* if i hit long... try to get more topspin
* if it miss wide... try to miss less wide
* if it's short,... i try to go deeper
etc...

nothing really magic... except alot of practice (this all presumes you have decent serve mechanics)

how do you aim throwing a baseball? except throwing a million and keep adjusting.... eventually you "feel" the micro movements you need to do

 

[GuyClinch]

I agree that aiming is mostly automatic - that being said I do think if you change your toss location a little it can help with specific serves aim wise. Also you can tweak your stance a little if you are having issues..

 

[Raul_SJ]

I hate to sound all Zen about it ... but I picture where I want the serve to go (T, Wide, Body ....) and when I serve, it just goes where I was thinking.

I fear that if I mentally break this down to "how" I will lose the ability.

Yes, I tend to agree with this approach. Maybe the body is capable of doing it and there's no point of breaking it down.. OTOH, when I aim wide and sometimes miss badly -- it goes down the T, there is always the curiosity to know the technical reason why.

 

[pabletion]

What's the secret to aiming your serve and how should you think about it? As a general rule, the ball goes in the direction that the string bed is pointing at the moment of contact. If you're a righty, at the start of every serve the string bed should be facing the left side of the court and it should rotate from left to right as you pronate through the serve motion.

So say that the string bed facing the left is 0 degrees and the string bed facing the right is 180 degrees. String bed facing straight out in front is 90 degrees.

If you're on the deuce side and want to hit down the middle, do you time your contact so that the strike occurs at 90 degree pronation? And if you want to hit out wide to the left, do you time contact so that it strikes at like 75 degree pronation?

On the ad side, hitting down the middle would have contact at 90 degrees of pronation and hitting wide to the right would be contact at 115 degrees of pronation?

Is this how aiming works on the serve? You're trying to time the contact of the ball with the exact angle of pronation that you want *as your wrist is in the process of rotating counter-clockwise*?

How do you aim when you're throwing a ball with your hand? Do you think about the angle of the palm of your hand? Your fingers? Where and how you release? No you don't. It's very similar with the serve. It should be more about feel, to me, the serve motion is very similar to that of a throwing motion, and your swing path has more to do with the direction of the ball than the racquet angle (racquet face angle will be a result of your desired swing path).

Just practice. First and foremost you need a decent, reliable toss AND serve motion. If you dont have this, then youre just trying to "arm" the ball to guide it. Ok, so if you DO have a somewhat reliable serve, now you can work on your aim, and like with anything else, its about practice. Put some cones or ball cans around the box and try and hit'em.

Aiming will come natural after a lot of practice, there really aren't many secrets (if any) about it, just practice.

 

[GuyClinch]

OTOH, when I aim wide and sometimes miss badly -- it goes down the T, there is always the curiosity to know the technical reason why.

Mistakes are not always technical - aka your technique was fine you just missed. You need to orient the racquet with this many degrees and it was this instead etc.

 

[r2473]

Babe Ruth method.

 

[time_fly]

What's the secret to aiming your serve and how should you think about it?

I'm probably the wrong person to ask since I've always had to work for accuracy. But I focus on the spot on the ball that I want to hit based on the direction I want the serve to go. During practice to find the sidelines I work further and further to one side of the ball until it's going in the desired direction.

 

[2HBH-DTL]

Babe Ruth method.

imagine playing against someone at a tournament and the dood points his racquet at where he's going to serve to. he hits his spot every time and even though you catch on and know where his serves are going, he still beats you with decent pace and incredible accuracy. talk about messing someone's head in a tennis match! lmao.

 

[fuzzybabybunny]

I'm here right now with a ball machine full of balls.

- I did a lot of practice throws of the ball, like throwing a baseball. I naturally supinate my wrist when throwing. Either that or I have straight wrist flexion. I *never* pronate when throwing a ball and it feels extremely unnatural to me. So I think using the analogy of throwing a ball or throwing the racquet when I serve is going to be tough for me.

- When I put topspin or slice on a ball when serving I naturally go into the waiter tray position and supinate my wrist as it brushes up against the back or the right of the ball.

- The moment I start my swing on edge like a hammer and pronate, everything goes to crap. I'll think about hitting down the T and because of pronation it goes far wide.

 

[blakesq]

What works for me is "calibration". E.g., if I want to serve down the T, and I aim down the T, and maybe my serve goes in the center of the box. The next time I serve down the T, I adjust a bit, so that ball goes slightly more towards the T. In my brain, I imagine, adjusting my swing by about 1 to 2 degrees so that the ball goes closer to the T. If overcorrected, then I calibrate again, and maybe only adjust my swing by about 0.5 degrees.

 

[TennisCJC]

In reality, the degree of pronation and the swing path probably do control the direction. But, the best way to control direction is to practice. If you are hitting a basket of practice serves, hit a few warm-up serves (10-12) to get loose and then work on targeting. Hit to the L target for several serves in row (say 10 to 15), then switch to middle target for several serves and finally to R target for several serves. I hit top/slice on most 1st serves and a topspin 2nd serve. I'll repeat the targeting drill for both 1st and 2nd serves. Finally, I may end by hitting flatter servers down the T from both side - I tend to hit my flat serves down the T as that's the lower part of the net, but my flat serves still have a high spin rate although less than my average top/slice 1st serve.

You could try using your hand to direct the serve too. For a serve with a conti grip, think of the part of your hand/fingers that is most parallel to the direction of the string bed. It might be the pad at the base of the index knuckle or the index finger from the base knuckle to the first joint. But, in effect, the area of your hand that is best aligned with the string bed could be used to control direction. Granted, the serve, like all shots in tennis, is a glancing contact but knowing where the strings are in relation to your hand may help you with direction. I've heard some coaches say to put the palm on the string bed and slide it down to find a FH grip. Then you can use the meat of the palm to direct your FH. I guess you could do a similar thing with the serve but adjust for a conti grip.

You mentioned that you are looking up and not at the target but you should be able to visualize the direction the ball needs to exit contact to head for your target. You could try looking up at contact and trying to make the ball exit contact on the intended target line. In reality, you'll never see the ball exit but if you have a visualization of the intended target, it might help.

But, lots of practice is the best approach.

 

[Chas Tennis]

That is what physically happens. The racquet approaches edge on and only faces the target for a millisecond (assuming you are using the correct Continental grip). And there is only a ~2 degree tilt difference between a T and Wide serve.

Whether one is physically capable of directly feeling that subtle difference is another issue. Likely not, IMO.

Some coaches teach it as a throwing analogy. Throw to first base, throw to second base, and throw to third base, will generate the three locations... That has helped me a little bit (although it's not nearly as easy as throwing a ball to a location -- but that is the goal)... Thinking of the racquet face angle did not help me.

Other possible cues: Pronate earlier,later. Hit the right or left side of the ball.

This - post below - is the racket rotation in a high level serve that effects the side-to-side angle of the racket. I would not describe this as the racket approaches the ball as "edge on". It approaches with a continuous rotation from before the edge on position (of the Big L). All videos should show this for high level serves. We do not have overhead videos of Waiter's Tray serves but the racket face would not be rotating as seen in the post below. Also, the court T and side line subtend a wider angle than 2 degrees. I don't know what the direction racket head faces T or side, has that been measured or estimated?

Here

Rare Fuzzy Yellow Balls overhead videos processed by Toly into composite pictures.

Measurements for these 3 pictures:
1) Slice - 70 d. racket head rotation.
2) Flat - 82 d. racket head rotation.
3) Kick - 54 d. racket head rotation.

Similar thread to this one only on the kick serve.
https://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/ind...in-serve-need-pronation.578063/#post-10824274

There is a separate angle the projection angle, it is an elevation angle. That angle is about 2 degrees for a net or out serve.

 

[Raul_SJ]

There is a separate angle the projection angle, it is an elevation angle. That angle is about 2 degrees for a net or out serve.

So there is a projection angle (determines whether the serve clears the net) and another left/right angle at contact that determines whether the serve goes T or Wide. And a third rotation angle from drop up to contact as shown in the FYB overhead pic.

IIRC, a coach told me that the left/right angle difference at contact for a T and Wide serve was just a few degrees.

I believe the FYB overhead shows that ISR/Pronation is delayed for a slice serve as opposed to flat. But it is not clear whether the server is aiming to the same location on the three serves... In any case, I believe the FYB rotation angle measurements affect the spin of the ball, i.e. a kick serve is a "glancing blow" and hence the racquet rotates only 54 degrees prior to contact. The FYB angle measurements do not affect the serve direction -- that is determined by the very slight left/right tilt angle at contact.

 

[Chas Tennis]

So there is a projection angle (determines whether the serve clears the net) and another left/right angle at contact that determines whether the serve goes T or Wide. And a third rotation angle from drop up to contact as shown in the FYB overhead pic.

IIRC, a coach told me that the left/right angle difference at contact for a T and Wide serve was just a few degrees.

I believe the FYB overhead shows that ISR/Pronation is delayed for a slice serve as opposed to flat. But it is not clear whether the server is aiming to the same location on the three serves... In any case, I believe the FYB rotation angle measurements affect the spin of the ball, i.e. a kick serve is a "glancing blow" and hence the racquet rotates only 54 degrees prior to contact. The FYB angle measurements do not affect the serve direction -- that is determined by the very slight left/right tilt angle at contact.

The two angles do not seemed to be discussed much and the racket face actually has just one angle vs time in 3D space.

But one of those angles is mostly changing from ISR side-to-side and the other is mostly closing as the racket head moves forward from other joint motions. This high speed video, also from Toly, shows it if you estimate the side-to-side direction and also take a protractor and put it on the closing and estimate that.

 

[Raul_SJ]

The two angles do not seemed to be discussed much and I the racket face actually has just one angle vs time in 3D space.

But one of those angles is mostly changing from ISR side-to-side and the other is mostly closing as the racket head moves forward from other joint motions. This high speed video, also from Toly, shows it if you estimate the side-to-side direction and also take a protractor and put it on the closing and estimate that.

The angle that is closing the face seems to relate to serve clearance over the net but does not appear critical to serve direction. The side-to-side ISR angle looks to be what determines the serve direction. Different degrees of ISR will lead to a slight racquet face difference at contact which in turn results in a wide or T serve.

 

[Chas Tennis]

The angle that is closing the face seems to relate to serve clearance over the net but does not appear critical to serve direction. The side-to-side ISR angle looks to be what determines the serve direction. Different degrees of ISR will lead to a slight racquet face difference at contact which in turn results in a wide or T serve.

There is one racket face direction vs time in 3D.

The way to describe the direction of a plane (racket face) is to use a line perpendicular to the plane, the surface normal. Here is surface normal for a plane or a curved surface.

Just for discussion and understanding, we are artificially separating the face direction into two parts based on what is causing rotation: 1) mostly ISR and 2) mostly closing of the racket face from various joint and body motions. These two directions are not orthogonal (at 90 degrees to one another) but sort of. The axis of ISR is the axis of the upper arm, which is not vertical. The details are available in high speed videos with careful calibration not in these word descriptions.

1) The rate of ISR angular rotation at impact might be 2500-3000 degrees per second. That would give 2.5-3 degrees per millisecond. Since the ball is on the strings for, say, 4 milliseconds, that would be 10-12 total degrees of racket head rotation during 4 milliseconds of impact. But we don't know the effect of the ball impact to change the racket rotation, the string effects and other impact effects.....

2) The rate of racket closing is less but considerable.

If we are having trouble with side to side placements and have a serve with ISR, that is where to look first. If we are hitting long or short, how closed the racket face is at impact is where to look first. The effect of grips always have to be considered.

We can clearly see these two rotations in high speed videos so you know what to look for in feedback videos.

But don't try to experiment with ISR too much during doubles matches. (I hit my partners in the back of the head on two occasions.)

With a Waiter's Tray serve there is much less ISR rotation leading to impact. Maybe the closing racket head speed is often higher to make up for the lack of ISR speed. ? That might make controlling the ball high or low more difficult but the side-to-side control easier. ?

 

[NLBwell]

Be the ball.

 

[Deleted member 23235]

honestly, the best way to improve accuracy, is eliminate variables... (ie. toss!)
and try to reproduce your movement again and again.
over time you'll feel what you need to tweak... eg. racquet head angle to put the ball where you want to go.
but the biggest obstacle most folks have (including me), is having a toss that is so inconsistent, that they trying to essentially learn an infinite variety of "how do i hit down the T off all these different tosses".