What do you think of this teaching technique?

[Cindysphinx]

I am working with a new pro. I have told him that I want to learn to play singles. Lately, we have been starting the lesson with short court warm-up. He usually then has me do 1-2 50-ball crosscourt FH rally. Then we do the same on the BH side, where I struggle.

We have been focusing on the BH side because I am still inconsistent and am trying to change my contact point and grip. Here is my question.

When we work on BH, he sets up two markers on the baseline, perhaps four feet apart. I am to shuffle a figure 8 around the markers toward my BH side. He feeds a ball to my BH, and I am supposed to hit it. Then do the figure 8 back around the markers and out to the BH side, and hit another ball. In our last lesson, we did four sets with each set requiring me to get 10 decent BHs in the court. By the end, I am exhausted.

What I don't understand is why we are doing something so difficult while I am still getting used to the contact point/grip change. Is this normal? I don't doubt the value of this sort of drill eventually because having a pro feed to you in a static position doesn't replicate match play, but is this the best way to go about it when I am still struggling with the basic stroke?

 

[HunterST]

I am working with a new pro. I have told him that I want to learn to play singles. Lately, we have been starting the lesson with short court warm-up. He usually then has me do 1-2 50-ball crosscourt FH rally. Then we do the same on the BH side, where I struggle.

We have been focusing on the BH side because I am still inconsistent and am trying to change my contact point and grip. Here is my question.

When we work on BH, he sets up two markers on the baseline, perhaps four feet apart. I am to shuffle a figure 8 around the markers toward my BH side. He feeds a ball to my BH, and I am supposed to hit it. Then do the figure 8 back around the markers and out to the BH side, and hit another ball. In our last lesson, we did four sets with each set requiring me to get 10 decent BHs in the court. By the end, I am exhausted.

What I don't understand is why we are doing something so difficult while I am still getting used to the contact point/grip change. Is this normal? I don't doubt the value of this sort of drill eventually because having a pro feed to you in a static position doesn't replicate match play, but is this the best way to go about it when I am still struggling with the basic stroke?

Yes. Struggle builds skill.

Not to get too scientific, but you get proficient at a skill when Mylein wraps around neural pathways. Guess what triggers myelin? Struggle. What's more, if you struggle with skills that are quite similar, or even more difficult than the situation in which you intend to use the skill, the more myelinated that circuit will become.

 

[rh310]

Works for me.

It might take a little longer to get the contact point aspect worked out, but when you do you'll own it under pressure. Unless you own it under pressure, you don't really own it anyway...



IMHO

 

[LeeD]

Almost everyone here can hit really well if we know where the ball is going, how fast, how much spin, and how deep.
You great coach is simulating what you need to hit your 2hbh when you hit with a person NOT him. None of your opponent's or partner's can hit consistently, so you need to simulate the movements and grip changes needed to rally with them.
Great coach, but maybe trying to make a mountain out of a molehill.
Me personally? At 28, I'd hate him, but I'd probably garner a few ATP points within 2 years. At 61, I'd ignore him, and walk off the court.
It's your choice to make.

 

[dozu]

I actually think this drill maybe counter-productive.... I believe in building block type of learning, so you learn the hands first, then the feet.

 

[MordredSJT]

As a teacher I would have to say that this kind of exercise can be a great bang for the buck drill. However, it shouldn't be overdone. The intensity and duration should be built progressively over time, especially when learning a new technique.

It is more specific to the kind of movement and time pressure you will get in a match. Let's be honest, the main reason most people cannot consistently reproduce the same contact point has more to do with the feet than the swing. So moving into proper position in order to hit the ball at the correct point is perhaps the most important part of learning that skill in an applicable way.

On the other hand, if you are so tired that you can no longer reliably get into proper position to execute a proper swing with an ideal contact point...then you are not training that movement. So, again, quality of repetition should come first. Volume and intensity should be built up over time.

 

[user92626]

To me it sounds like your pro is teaching you how to run (footwork in 8 figure) before you even know how to walk (basic stroke).

 

[sureshs]

You will only become tired and dizzy. I have seen adult players being put through such drills and they don't improve. A good workout it is undoubtedly though.

If you cannot hit consistent backhands, you need to just work on it by hitting the ball the right way very slowly and then increasing the swing speed as much as you can, and then going with that for several weeks or months till the muscle memory sinks in.

 

[Steady Eddy]

If you're going to 2nd guess the coach, then you must think that you know better. If that's so, then why get a coach?

I think student/teacher relationships work best when the student has a modicum of faith in the instructor. Not "blind" faith, but a bit of faith and trust and openness to the instructors methods. Give them a chance. If after an extended period of time there are no results, then, maybe ask if this works. But students who say, "Why are we doing this?" "That doesn't seem right" "I don't like this drill." etc. don't improve and aggravate the coach as well.

Give it a chance.

 

[jester911]

Give the coach and yourself a chance to figure out how you actually learn.

Good coaches don't try to make students fit a cookie cutter mold as everyone learns a little bit differently. If your not starting to improve in the areas of focus and he does not try different ways to teach the same lesson then you may need to find another coach.

 

[larry10s]

seems to me you are not ready to incorporate 2 skills at once.jmho

 

[tennis_eel]

What I don't understand is why we are doing something so difficult while I am still getting used to the contact point/grip change. Is this normal? I don't doubt the value of this sort of drill eventually because having a pro feed to you in a static position doesn't replicate match play, but is this the best way to go about it when I am still struggling with the basic stroke?

A lot of the time coaches like to do situational teaching where he will place you in a situation that you need to use your new technique to get yourself out of trouble. So what your coach has done is he has put you into a situation where you might struggle, he will then give you the technical advice you need to help you and hopefully you come out the other side and achieve the goal.

If you end up doing these kinds of drills you will find yourself having to think for yourself a little how to get yourself out of these situations he's putting you in rather than having your coach baby you through everything your doing which can be helpful.

 

[ProgressoR]

if i was not happy with my stroke and needed to focus on that outside of also thinking about footwork, i would tell my coach and he sometimes listens to me and sometimes tells me to get on with it. when re learning my FH i didnt like how i was hitting it so we went back to real basics from short feeding and then worked back up to rallies over couple of lessons. Then i quickly got to where i was hitting it ok and coach was making me move helluva a lot in drills saying movement and positioning is 70% of a stroke and correct mechanics 30%, he is right. at that stage i tell him he is killing me and i pick something technical to work on, not because i am lazy but i want a sound technical base in all strokes first. Its give and take and that is how it should be with a good coach, sometimes he indulges me sometimes he ignores me.

I really like my coach.

 

[esgee48]

Forward, backward, side to side movements are what your coach is trying to instill so you set up correctly to hit the shot. The Figure 8 movement is perhaps too advanced since you should be just positioning (moving) to hit the BH, hit it, then move back to a more neutral position.

 

[kiteboard]

Tell him, "I am struggling with the basic shot, grip, take back, etc." Most people have weaker bh due to weaker upper deltoid and bad technique.

 

[jmverdugo]

Maybe he thinks that your problem is footwork and not the stroke itself? IMO 80% of the problems with amateurs players is footwork, specially in the backhand.

 

[Cindysphinx]

Hmmm. Big split of opinion.

I guess I will stick with his way for a while. I had two pros I was considering, and I went with this guy because I thought he would eventually help me develop more advanced technique.

The other pro had a totally different approach to the BH. He wanted it to be a consistent, spinny stroke. The idea was the BH is just a rally stroke, a way to stay in points until you can use your FH weapon.

This pro that has me doing the figure 8s wants the BH to be as much of a weapon as the FH. The goal is to have me feel delighted to hit my BH -- that way the opponent can't get me in trouble off of either side.

This is easier said than done!!

If I still don't get it after a while longer, he and I can have a discussion.

 

[Bagumbawalla]

Since one seldom plays and actual game with cones in your way, something similar would go like this: your coach hits to your backhand and you drive a backhand back to his/her forehand each time returning to a center possition to protect a possible shot to your forehand side.

Every so often (or if the coach sees you getting lazy/tired), he/she will drive a ball wide to your forehand side. To me, this seems more realistic than running around cones. Obviously, you can do the drill the other way around, as well.

 

[Cindysphinx]

Is this teaching technique common among coaches who teach juniors? Or is it something folks have never heard of before?

In other words, did my pro pull this out of his backside, or is he following some sort of methodology?

 

[the wise wizard]

I am working with a new pro. I have told him that I want to learn to play singles. Lately, we have been starting the lesson with short court warm-up. He usually then has me do 1-2 50-ball crosscourt FH rally. Then we do the same on the BH side, where I struggle.

We have been focusing on the BH side because I am still inconsistent and am trying to change my contact point and grip. Here is my question.

When we work on BH, he sets up two markers on the baseline, perhaps four feet apart. I am to shuffle a figure 8 around the markers toward my BH side. He feeds a ball to my BH, and I am supposed to hit it. Then do the figure 8 back around the markers and out to the BH side, and hit another ball. In our last lesson, we did four sets with each set requiring me to get 10 decent BHs in the court. By the end, I am exhausted.

What I don't understand is why we are doing something so difficult while I am still getting used to the contact point/grip change. Is this normal? I don't doubt the value of this sort of drill eventually because having a pro feed to you in a static position doesn't replicate match play, but is this the best way to go about it when I am still struggling with the basic stroke?

thats why we practice. when you practice in situations you don't like, when do things that hurt/exhaust/frustrate, you are working to change the things that bother you.

plus your groundstrokes start with your feet not your contact point.

 

[user92626]

plus your groundstrokes start with your feet not your contact point.

ehh ...if we go that route, your groundstrokes really start with you eyes.

 

[jmverdugo]

Is this teaching technique common among coaches who teach juniors? Or is it something folks have never heard of before?

In other words, did my pro pull this out of his backside, or is he following some sort of methodology?

It is common in juniors and adults, the idea of the cones is to keep your feet in movement while the ball is traveling back to your opponent, you have to get use to that, you have to do it at a speed that allows you to be ready and in good position to hit the next gorundstroke.

 

[yellowoctopus]

To the OP: I am confident that you will get the best answer to your question from the teaching pro you are referring to. Every teaching pro know (should know) that communication with their pupil is the most important factor in their repertoire. Having you ask questions like this would only serve to improve your future lessons with him.

 

[Bagumbawalla]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MqyuthWNA_I

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sj_VYuNs2Jo

Here are two videos. In the top- both using cones. In the top one the player hit the ball from the center then shuffles back to the sideline, then back to the center- it makes him move, but in a way that makes no sense.

The second (it has an ad at the start) shows the player hitting fron the sideline, moving back toward the center then back to hit at the sideline, again- more normal, but, still not the exact footwork one would use in play.

So, yes, coaches teach this drill. Will it work for you? Let us know how it goes.

 

[x Southpaw x]

I think the coaching methodology is pretty common. Why is he making you do such a drill when your bh feels wrong? Because teaching the kinesiology behind an optimum backhand stroke is incredibly hard and he does not want to attempt it. Instead he's making you hit ball after ball in hope that your body dsicovers that perfect form by itself. So fixing your backhand form is your homework, something you do off the court, with a mirror and a video of a pro backhand.

 

[chico9166]

Well this is the million dollar question when building skill set. When to move out of a controlled environment into a more realistic context. Without seeing you play, or progression rate, it is impossible to determine.

My experience is that most pro's spend too much time in the former, though. Feeding balls right into the wheelhouse, to perpetuate a false sense of accomplishment. No bueno.

 

[Parker512]

My annoying coach does the same thing he changed my grip and makes me do all that but have to keep two balls inthe air at the same time.