What is Wawrinka's backhand grip?

[Crie]

I just want to know. I have a two-handed backhand so I definitely won't be changing anytime soon.

 

[David Le]

Eastern backhand grip

 

[Crie]

Eastern backhand grip

Forgive me I am new to the single handed backhand terminology, but the eastern grip is the one where the index knuckle is on bevel 1 and the heel pad on bevel 8/7?

 

[VamosBamos987]

Nah, it's a semi.

 

[Easy Rider]

I would say Federer is 1/8, Stan, Gasquet are 1/7

 

[David Le]

Forgive me I am new to the single handed backhand terminology, but the eastern grip is the one where the index knuckle is on bevel 1 and the heel pad on bevel 8/7?

His heel pad is at 8 but his index finger base knuckle is wrapping over the top towards bevel 2. It's like a mild eastern. It's hard to explain honestly.

 

[Limpinhitter]

I would call it a strong Eastern grip.

 

[HipRotation]

A vigorous Eastern Indian backhand

 

[crazyups]

His heel pad is at 8 but his index finger base knuckle is wrapping over the top towards bevel 2. It's like a mild eastern. It's hard to explain honestly.

Correct.

 

[Crie]

So its somewhere between eastern and continental?

 

[Serjojeee]

So its somewhere between eastern and continental?

Something like that, it's also called hummer grip. I started to use that too, mostly for top spin - easier spin than with sw grip. Absolute opposite to what I heard about that.

 

[Limpinhitter]

So its somewhere between eastern and continental?

No. It's slightly past Eastern toward semi Western.

 

[vanioMan]

Stanimal grip. Only he can use it

 

[heninfan99]

I don't know but here is The Stanimal beasting:

 

[Crie]

No. It's slightly past Eastern toward semi Western.

Can you show me a picture? I have looked up a "Wawrinka backhand" in google images and of all the ones I can see, his index knuckle is just teetering over to continental, unlike what you said.

 

[Limpinhitter]

Can you show me a picture? I have looked up a "Wawrinka backhand" in google images and of all the ones I can see, his index knuckle is just teetering over to continental, unlike what you said.

The notion of matching knuckles and the heal of the hand to certain bevels in order to define grips is a relatively recent attempt to standardize the definitions of the grips that is somewhat flawed for numerous reasons. It is not the traditional method of finding grips.

Perhaps comparing Wawrinka's grip to that of genuine Eastern and Continental grips would be helpful for you to see the difference.

Wawrinka's grip:

Eastern Backhand Grips:

Edberg:

Lendl:

Continental Grip:

Laver:

Rosewall:

Roche:

 

[HuusHould]

His heel pad is at 8 but his index finger base knuckle is wrapping over the top towards bevel 2. It's like a mild eastern. It's hard to explain honestly.

To me this sounds like he's gripping it with a semi western forehand grip at the end of the racquet (base of his hand) and (as a result of a diagonal hand orientation) almost a continental grip at the other end of his hand (nearer the throat of the racquet). I think this is referred to as the "squirrel grip".

 

[Crie]

The notion of matching knuckles and the heal of the hand to certain bevels in order to define grips is a relatively recent attempt to standardize the definitions of the grips that is somewhat flawed for numerous reasons. It is not the traditional method of finding grips.

Perhaps comparing Wawrinka's grip to that of genuine Eastern and Continental grips would be helpful for you to see the difference.

Wawrinka's grip:

Eastern Backhand Grips:

Edberg:

Lendl:

Continental Grip:

Laver:

Rosewall:

Roche:

Well how do you explain these ones? I think he was just using SW for that one shot because it was low. On these shots does he not have a eastern/continental grip at when/before he hits the ball?

 

[Limpinhitter]

Well how do you explain these ones? I think he was just using SW for that one shot because it was low. On these shots does he not have a eastern/continental grip at when/before he hits the ball?

I think you and I are having a problem communicating with each other. Your pictures are consistent with what I have previously said. You asked if Wawrinka's grip was between Eastern and Continental. I explained that it was not, but rather, that it past Eastern towards semi-Western. In other words, between Eastern and semi-Western.

 

[Crie]

I think you and I are having a problem communicating with each other. Your pictures are consistent with what I have previously said. You asked if Wawrinka's grip was between Eastern and Continental. I explained that it was not, but rather, that it past Eastern towards semi-Western. In other words, between Eastern and semi-Western.

But you can clearly see his index knuckle past the Eastern to Continental, not behind.

 

[Limpinhitter]

But you can clearly see his index knuckle past the Eastern to Continental, not behind.

The index knuckle is not relevant because it can vary greatly depending on the spread of the grip. Wawrinka uses a hammer grip (fingers close together, not spread out), so his index knuckle is in a different position than the heel of his hand. If he used a spread grip, then the index knuckle would be closer to the same position as the heel of the hand.

In any event, Warwinka's grip is behind the top of the handle between an Eastern and semi-Western backhand grip, in the opposite direction of the Continental grip used by players like Laver, Rosewall and Roche pictured above.

 

[AllCourtHeathen]

It's entirely possible he alters his grip slightly depending on the incoming height of the ball.

Semi western for high balls, index2/heel1 for low balls, index1heel2 for waist high balls?

 

[Serjojeee]

It's entirely possible he alters his grip slightly depending on the incoming height of the ball.

Semi western for high balls, index2/heel1 for low balls, index1heel2 for waist high balls?

I don't think so, hammer grip and sw grip are equally good for high balls, your shoulder is limiting factor with high balls, not the grip.

 

[haqq777]

But you can clearly see his index knuckle past the Eastern to Continental, not behind.

The knuckle is past the eastern towards semi-western. If it was towards continental the knuckle would be behind and landing on 2. I think you are mixing up OHBH grip descriptions. In Wawrinka's case because of his grip, it can be a bit misleading.

If you are suggesting continental, that would mean his knuckles land on 8. Whereas knuckles on 2 is moving over into semi-western territory given Warinka's grip. @Limpinhitter is correct here. In my humble opinion, Wawrinka's is extreme eastern OHBH (between an eastern and semi-western).

Edit: I had to go back and fix a few things as I had mistyped a couple of things leading to confusion.

 

[dje31]

Wouldn't it be easier to say it's an extreme Western forehand grip, turned over 180*?

 

[Limpinhitter]

The knuckle is past the eastern towards semi-western. If it was towards continental the knuckle would be behind and landing on 8. I think you are mixing up OHBH grip descriptions.

If you are suggesting continental, that would mean his knuckles land on 8. Whereas knuckles on 2 is moving over into semi-western territory. If you notice Wawrinka's knuckles are placed between 1 and 2 (with varying degrees and angles pictures are taken). @Limpinhitter is correct here. In my humble opinion, Wawrinka's is extreme eastern OHBH (between an eastern and semi-western).

Please be aware that the use of bevels, the heel of the hand and first knuckle of the index finger, to define the grips is a very recent development that attempts to standardize the definitions of the grips. This is not the traditional method of defining the grips. Unfortunately, this method has some flaws, the most problematic of which @Cire is struggling with. He sees the heel of Wawrinka's hand on about bevel 7 and the first knuckle of his index finger between 1 and 2. The reason for this is that Wawrinka uses a "hammer grip" (like a fist with the fingers close together). You can test this yourself by putting the heel of your hand on bevel 7 with a hammer grip. You'll see that it is impossible to also put the first knuckle on bevel 7. You have to spread your grip out quite a bit (further than any of the pros currently do), in order to place both the heel of your hand and the first knuckle on the same bevel.

 

[Crie]

The knuckle is past the eastern towards semi-western. If it was towards continental the knuckle would be behind and landing on 8. I think you are mixing up OHBH grip descriptions.

If you are suggesting continental, that would mean his knuckles land on 8. Whereas knuckles on 2 is moving over into semi-western territory. If you notice Wawrinka's knuckles are placed between 1 and 2 (with varying degrees and angles pictures are taken). @Limpinhitter is correct here. In my humble opinion, Wawrinka's is extreme eastern OHBH (between an eastern and semi-western).

Wait so if a one handed backhander's knuckle is on bevel 2, its considered Semi-Western? And if his knuckle is on 8, thats continental? Was I wrong about one-handed backhand grips from the start?

 

[Chadillac]

The knuckle is past the eastern towards semi-western. If it was towards continental the knuckle would be behind and landing on 8. I think you are mixing up OHBH grip descriptions.

If you are suggesting continental, that would mean his knuckles land on 8. Whereas knuckles on 2 is moving over into semi-western territory. If you notice Wawrinka's knuckles are placed between 1 and 2 (with varying degrees and angles pictures are taken). @Limpinhitter is correct here. In my humble opinion, Wawrinka's is extreme eastern OHBH (between an eastern and semi-western).

He swaps from 5-6 based on the incoming ball height (dont look at his knuckle, but his palm, bigger hands or small grip). The continental is better for balls below the waist (especially slice) but 6 allows you to take big rips at the ball and is better vs high balls since your applying force more behind the ball.

With 6 your face is more closed which allows for more power and hittting up on a higher ball doesnt make it go deep. I go more 6 on defense because im on the back foot and expect a high lauch angle.

They are very small changes but huge difference without striking differently

 

[AllCourtHeathen]

Jeeezuz H Christ you can CRUSH the ball with this "hammer" grip! And you can hit it accurately, it is so easy to square up the face.
I have a concrete wall home, so I set up a target at the end of my narrow hallway and rain backhands at it when I am bored, and I was easily hitting the zone, and with pace. It's not a grip I am going to be able to quickly switch to in the heat of play though, I seem hardwired to play semi western

 

[haqq777]

He swaps from 5-6 based on the incoming ball height (dont look at his knuckle, but his palm, bigger hands or small grip). The continental is better for balls below the waist (especially slice) but 6 allows you to take big rips at the ball and is better vs high balls since your applying force more behind the ball.

With 6 your face is more closed which allows for more power and hittting up on a higher ball doesnt make it go deep. I go more 6 on defense because im on the back foot and expect a high lauch angle.

They are very small changes but huge difference without striking differently

Correct. I was simply clarifying OP's initial confusion regarding grip positioning.

 

[haqq777]

Wait so if a one handed backhander's knuckle is on bevel 2, its considered Semi-Western? And if his knuckle is on 8, thats continental? Was I wrong about one-handed backhand grips from the start?

Nope. On a OHBH, eastern grip is where base knucles land on bevel 1, semi-western is where base knuckles land on bevel 8, & continental is where base knuckles land on bevel 2. However, as most posters pointed out, you have to be careful regarding grip descriptions because you have to factor in heel-pad/palm positioning as well. I apologize if my earlier post was a little misleading, I should have read it twice before posting. I went ahead and fixed it. Here is also a link :http://www.busy-tennis-players.com/tennis-grips.html - just scroll down at the bottom and it shows how a OHBH with eastern and semi-western grip is supposed to be.

 

[haqq777]

Please be aware that the use of bevels, the heel of the hand and first knuckle of the index finger, to define the grips is a very recent development that attempts to standardize the definitions of the grips. This is not the traditional method of defining the grips. Unfortunately, this method has some flaws, the most problematic of which @Cire is struggling with. He sees the heel of Wawrinka's hand on about bevel 7 and the first knuckle of his index finger between 1 and 2. The reason for this is that Wawrinka uses a "hammer grip" (like a fist with the fingers close together). You can test this yourself by putting the heel of your hand on bevel 7 with a hammer grip. You'll see that it is impossible to also put the first knuckle on bevel 7. You have to spread your grip out quite a bit (further than any of the pros currently do), in order to place both the heel of your hand and the first knuckle on the same bevel.

I agree completely. I'm not aware of how recent the grip-description-using-bevels phenomenon is, but I refer to knuckle positions simply because my coaches (both in H.S and college) used it as a reference point. Off course it is easier to understand when you have a stick in your hand as opposed to explaining over the internet.

 

[Serjojeee]

Jeeezuz H Christ you can CRUSH the ball with this "hammer" grip! And you can hit it accurately, it is so easy to square up the face.
I have a concrete wall home, so I set up a target at the end of my narrow hallway and rain backhands at it when I am bored, and I was easily hitting the zone, and with pace. It's not a grip I am going to be able to quickly switch to in the heat of play though, I seem hardwired to play semi western

I used sw backhand grip for couple years (moved a little bit higher to mild sw afterwards), and now experimenting with hammer grip. The change was easier than I thought, maybe cause the heel of the hand is at the same position. I feel that for top spin it's easier - the windshield wiper motion (starting up then moving down and up again) of the head of the raquet is more fluid cause the knuckle of the finger is not on the way of the raquet when it's moving down. It's hard to explain that even in russian, but don't you think so too if you got what I mean?

 

[AllCourtHeathen]

I used sw backhand grip for couple years (moved a little bit higher to mild sw afterwards), and now experimenting with hammer grip. The change was easier than I thought, maybe cause the heel of the hand is at the same position. I feel that for top spin it's easier - the windshield wiper motion (starting up then moving down and up again) of the head of the raquet is more fluid cause the knuckle of the finger is not on the way of the raquet when it's moving down. It's hard to explain that even in russian, but don't you think so too if you got what I mean?

yeah I think I get what you are saying, it is a solid grip AND it flows easily through supination. And fark me it is powerful.
What I realized tonight though, after a backhand drill session against a ball machine, is that the squarer "hammer" grip naturally wants to move the contact point to closer inline with your body, despite it being out in front, whereas a grip with the knuckles more spread out (albeit slightly) across the bevels, allows you to hit a better contact point out to the side and front, more naturally.

Just an observation.

 

[Crie]

Please be aware that the use of bevels, the heel of the hand and first knuckle of the index finger, to define the grips is a very recent development that attempts to standardize the definitions of the grips. This is not the traditional method of defining the grips. Unfortunately, this method has some flaws, the most problematic of which @Cire is struggling with. He sees the heel of Wawrinka's hand on about bevel 7 and the first knuckle of his index finger between 1 and 2. The reason for this is that Wawrinka uses a "hammer grip" (like a fist with the fingers close together). You can test this yourself by putting the heel of your hand on bevel 7 with a hammer grip. You'll see that it is impossible to also put the first knuckle on bevel 7. You have to spread your grip out quite a bit (further than any of the pros currently do), in order to place both the heel of your hand and the first knuckle on the same bevel.

What grip do you use? I can do it just fine. Wawrinka is a pretty big guy, it's safe to assume he has med-large hands so that he can hold it with his heel pad on 7 and knuckle between 1 & 2.

 

[Crie]

Like I just don't see his knuckle anywhere close to 8. To me, it seems that his knuckle is reaching over the side of bevel 1 to 2.
http://beveldevil.blogspot.ca/2013/01/the-modern-1hbh-grip-its-all-about-heel.html
On this link, you see his knuckle on 1 teetering over to 2. And here I am wondering if my eyes are pointing inside my skull or looking right way up. Honestly, I just wanted to know, I don't mean at all that I am ignoring what you said because that would be ignorant, but I am trying to find a picture of Stan with a Semi-W grip and I can't. I just can't. If you were able to see how many hours I spent on web surfing, you'd pass out. Maybe you know something I don't, who knows you might be Stan himself.

Like this to me looks like a definite SW OHBH grip. Maybe even a bit more extreme, but definitely not eastern.

In the end, I got a lot of knowledge from this thread. And just to clarify, the OHBH has 3 general grips. Semi-W, Eastern, and Continental. Semi-W is on bevel 8, Eastern is on bevel 1, and Continental is on bevel 2, same as the slice. The heel pad is somewhere around 8 or 7 depending on grip size, hand size, and general preference.

 

[WhiskeyEE]

He uses a modified weak eastern/strong continental (somewhere inbetween). Modified in the sense that the heel pad is behind the index knuckle, making the racquet form a 90 degree angle with the forearm. Unlike a forehand where the heel pad is in line with the knuckle and the racquet-forearm angle is more obtuse.

With the heel pad behind the index knuckle, the grip will play more extreme than the index knuckle position suggests.

 

[WhiskeyEE]

Like I just don't see his knuckle anywhere close to 8. To me, it seems that his knuckle is reaching over the side of bevel 1 to 2.
http://beveldevil.blogspot.ca/2013/01/the-modern-1hbh-grip-its-all-about-heel.html
On this link, you see his knuckle on 1 teetering over to 2. And here I am wondering if my eyes are pointing inside my skull or looking right way up. Honestly, I just wanted to know, I don't mean at all that I am ignoring what you said because that would be ignorant, but I am trying to find a picture of Stan with a Semi-W grip and I can't. I just can't. If you were able to see how many hours I spent on web surfing, you'd pass out. Maybe you know something I don't, who knows you might be Stan himself.

Like this to me looks like a definite SW OHBH grip. Maybe even a bit more extreme, but definitely not eastern.

In the end, I got a lot of knowledge from this thread. And just to clarify, the OHBH has 3 general grips. Semi-W, Eastern, and Continental. Semi-W is on bevel 8, Eastern is on bevel 1, and Continental is on bevel 2, same as the slice. The heel pad is somewhere around 8 or 7 depending on grip size, hand size, and general preference.

That's because... you're right. The people in this thread are freaking retards...

But I have to emphasize the racquet-forearm angle of close to 90 degrees. Most pros with an eastern backhand grip hit with the the angle far closer to 90 degrees than a western forehand would have. Also, the slice is generally hit with a larger angle (heel pad in line with index knuckle) than a topspin backhand.

 

[Serjojeee]

yeah I think I get what you are saying, it is a solid grip AND it flows easily through supination. And fark me it is powerful.
What I realized tonight though, after a backhand drill session against a ball machine, is that the squarer "hammer" grip naturally wants to move the contact point to closer inline with your body, despite it being out in front, whereas a grip with the knuckles more spread out (albeit slightly) across the bevels, allows you to hit a better contact point out to the side and front, more naturally.

Just an observation.

And starting from that, it's easier to step into the shot to rotate afterwards thru your right leg (if you are righty), cause late contact point leaves you without enough space to stop the raquet another way on your follow through (assuming that you are accelerating the raquet all the way to that late contact point, and that's the way to go imho). I spent some time thinking, where are Stan's power sources. And watching him live I think that it's not sheer power, but intelligent usage of the length of his strokes - they are fast enough but more importantly very long and fluent.

Can't get, why it's so hard to google, what is 'hammer grip' by the way. Something between continental and semiwestern, but not eastern