What's the best way to learn the 2HBH wrist lag?

[initialize]

I grew up playing with a 1HBH but started learning the 2HBH several months ago. I play recreationally, so I'm learning the 2 hander mostly just for fun.

It's gotten pretty good with it over the last few months, but whenever I record myself, my racket drop seems very lacking (I.e reminiscent of Berrittini)

I've tried watching various videos on how to do it and have tried several methods-- some people mention forcing the racket drop, loosening the hands/arms, or focusing on "pulling" with the big muscles in your lats/shoulders, but nothing seems to work. Any tips?

 

[zill]

I grew up playing with a 1HBH but started learning the 2HBH several months ago. I play recreationally, so I'm learning the 2 hander mostly just for fun.

It's gotten pretty good with it over the last few months, but whenever I record myself, my racket drop seems very lacking (I.e reminiscent of Berrittini)

I've tried watching various videos on how to do it and have tried several methods-- some people mention forcing the racket drop, loosening the hands/arms, or focusing on "pulling" with the big muscles in your lats/shoulders, but nothing seems to work. Any tips?

Let me guess your racquet doesn't go back behind your body very much right?

 

[Curious]

Let me guess, you’re using the racket like a tool, not like a weight.

 

[initialize]

Thanks gents, I'll watch the video in a bit.


My racket does go behind my body quite a bit @zill

 

[zill]

Thanks gents, I'll watch the video in a bit.


My racket does go behind my body quite a bit @zill

That's fine. The key is to take the racquet back with your torso and not your arms. Arms come along for the ride.

 

[initialize]

That's fine. The key is to take the racquet back with your torso and not your arms. Arms come along for the ride.

Ok I'll try to implement that more. In other words, my arms should feel mostly weightless on the takeback?

 

[zill]

Ok I'll try to implement that more. In other words, my arms should feel mostly weightless on the takeback?

Yes, loose, free flowing, weightless, not there etc.

 

[eah123]

Personally, I’ve been working on this myself and have had good progress over the last month.

The most important discovery is that I have to initiate the racket drop early with my dominant (right) arm, usually synchronized to the ball bounce on my side of the court, unless the ball is hit very slow or loopy and taking it after the peak.

Then as you accelerate the hands forward toward the incoming ball, the combination of the racquet drop and this motion causes the muscles in the forearm to stretch, the “lag”. Then those same forearm muscles contract, bringing the racquet head quickly into contact with the ball, the “snap”.

I think this video from Racquetflex explains it the best

However what was missing for me until recently is understanding how early you really need to be when initiating the racquet drop. When you initiate it too late, it results in very little racquet drop and hence, very little “lag and snap”.

 

[Funbun]

All two handed backhands will have some sort of racquet drop if you start your takeback with the racquet relatively high and pointing up. Gravity will naturally bring your racquet head down as you begin the forward swing.

Further racquet drop can be achieved by actively pushing down or straightening out your top hand on initiation of the forward swing. You will see this with Nadal, Djokovic, Nishikori, Agassi, Sinner where there's a distinctly low split second drop position when you view them in slow motion. Some players with a double bend arm structure at contact, like Zverev, will straighten first then bend.

In the end, I don't think it's something to really worry about.

 

[Clay lover]

All two handed backhands will have some sort of racquet drop if you start your takeback with the racquet relatively high and pointing up. Gravity will naturally bring your racquet head down as you begin the forward swing.

Further racquet drop can be achieved by actively pushing down or straightening out your top hand on initiation of the forward swing. You will see this with Nadal, Djokovic, Nishikori, Agassi, Sinner where there's a distinctly low split second drop position when you view them in slow motion. Some players with a double bend arm structure at contact, like Zverev, will straighten first then bend.

In the end, I don't think it's something to really worry about.

Speaking of the drop, I guess this should be something you actively do in order to achieve the L to H and thus decent top and consistency? And does the drop mean an active attempt to lay the wrists back on dropping to further accentuate the drop?

I've been struggling with 2HBH stiffness for a while and I'm wondering if I should actively think about the wrists and forcing the drop

 

[optic yellow]

Yes, loose, free flowing, weightless, not there etc.

Oh this is real helpful insight

 

[Funbun]

Speaking of the drop, I guess this should be something you actively do in order to achieve the L to H and thus decent top and consistency?

The presence of a racquet drop does not necessarily mean more topspin; Djokovic will often hit a *relatively* flat, powerful ball despite his noticeably big racquet drop. It will be more the involvement of the top arm and overall swing speed to generate greater topspin. The two hander is a pretty inherently stable shot; a lot of pro flat 2-handers are generally consistent despite their lack of spin, like Fognini or RBA.

And does the drop mean an active attempt to lay the wrists back on dropping to further accentuate the drop?

I don't think you should think about the wrists too much; the top wrist stays mostly extended up until contact and optionally/naturally flex on follow through, and your bottom wrist will flex or stay neutral. The wrist configurations can vary a lot among grip combinations, the incoming shot context, and your intended shot direction. The wrists have virtually no role in producing the drop and they shouldn't be forced to do so.

I wouldn't think about either the wrists or forcing the drop.
I'd review all of the Intuitive Tennis videos on the two-hander; Nik hits an insane backhand and he might point out something you might be doing wrong or suboptimally.

 

[nyta2]

my $.02,
i just try to stay loose (grip like just my finger tips are on the handle),
drop my hands below contact
and if i'm loose when i start my forward swing, my left wrist will extend and my right wrist will flex (i "allow" my wrist to move fluidly, but i don't intentionally "place" my wrists in those positions)
in general, i'm allowing racquet tip to drop (pointing to ground) as i drag the butt cap to the contact (by virtue of my shoulder/core rotating into contact - not because i'm pulling with my right arm/hand)
then as i near contact i engage my left arm (pronate... "windshield wipe", ISR - turning my arm from palm down to palm up, as i swing low to high
extend by "kissing my bicep"
and finish by "putting the sword in the scabbard over my shoulder"
in general the tip is tracing approximately a figure 8
for a topspin 2hbh anyway...

flat, i'm more firm with the grip on the take back, don't allow it to lag (there is probably some, but not as pronounced as my topspin stroke), and the finish feels slight more to the side, than over the shoulder (eg. right elbow ends closer to my rib cage vs. flared away from rib cage)

 

[zill]

my $.02,
i just try to stay loose (grip like just my finger tips are on the handle),
drop my hands below contact
and if i'm loose when i start my forward swing, my left wrist will extend and my right wrist will flex (i "allow" my wrist to move fluidly, but i don't intentionally "place" my wrists in those positions)
in general, i'm allowing racquet tip to drop (pointing to ground) as i drag the butt cap to the contact (by virtue of my shoulder/core rotating into contact - not because i'm pulling with my right arm/hand)
then as i near contact i engage my left arm (pronate... "windshield wipe", ISR - turning my arm from palm down to palm up, as i swing low to high
extend by "kissing my bicep"
and finish by "putting the sword in the scabbard over my shoulder"
in general the tip is tracing approximately a figure 8
for a topspin 2hbh anyway...

flat, i'm more firm with the grip on the take back, don't allow it to lag (there is probably some, but not as pronounced as my topspin stroke), and the finish feels slight more to the side, than over the shoulder (eg. right elbow ends closer to my rib cage vs. flared away from rib cage)

makes sense.

 

[Curious]

my $.02,
i just try to stay loose (grip like just my finger tips are on the handle),
drop my hands below contact
and if i'm loose when i start my forward swing, my left wrist will extend and my right wrist will flex (i "allow" my wrist to move fluidly, but i don't intentionally "place" my wrists in those positions)
in general, i'm allowing racquet tip to drop (pointing to ground) as i drag the butt cap to the contact (by virtue of my shoulder/core rotating into contact - not because i'm pulling with my right arm/hand)
then as i near contact i engage my left arm (pronate... "windshield wipe", ISR - turning my arm from palm down to palm up, as i swing low to high
extend by "kissing my bicep"
and finish by "putting the sword in the scabbard over my shoulder"
in general the tip is tracing approximately a figure 8
for a topspin 2hbh anyway...

flat, i'm more firm with the grip on the take back, don't allow it to lag (there is probably some, but not as pronounced as my topspin stroke), and the finish feels slight more to the side, than over the shoulder (eg. right elbow ends closer to my rib cage vs. flared away from rib cage)

Can you describe how you hit a forehand as well? It’s nice to read it.

 

[optic yellow]

Can you describe how you hit a forehand as well? It’s nice to read it.

Yeah this was super helpful to read. I think from this thread I will notice marked improvement the next time I practice them. Passable -> actually good is the vision here. It might not get there solidly with first practice session due to the footwork aspect but I will be contented with unleashing at least a couple vicious shots I've never really hit with the 2HBH before.

 

[Curious]

Yeah this was super helpful to read. I think from this thread I will notice marked improvement the next time I practice them. Passable -> actually good is the vision here. It might not get there solidly with first practice session due to the footwork aspect but I will be contented with unleashing at least a couple vicious shots I've never really hit with the 2HBH before.

Unfortunately it’s still easier said than done. If you pay close attention, there’s nothing he said that we didn’t know!

 

[optic yellow]

Unfortunately it’s still easier said than done. If you pay close attention, there’s nothing he said that we didn’t know!

Knowing and summoning that knowledge are two different things. He described it with more clarity and precision than I could have if given two hours to write that, which means I do not actually understand it as well as I'd hope to.

 

[nyta2]

Unfortunately it’s still easier said than done. If you pay close attention, there’s nothing he said that we didn’t know!

100%

Knowing and summoning that knowledge are two different things. He described it with more clarity and precision than I could have if given two hours to write that, which means I do not actually understand it as well as I'd hope to.

thx.
it helps when i'm regularly explaining details to someone like my daughter, who's always questioning every tip i give her (surprised she's not already a regular on ttw )
committing the knowledge into muscle memory takes alot of correct reps (many many layers of myelin!), and then it feels like i'm starting all over again as difficulty of depth/pace/spin increase...
as a serve warmup, my daughter and i throw a (junior) football around for a few minutes, and for symmetry also throw lefty (non-dominant hand).... we go from tight spiral to end-over-end tumble, despite "knowing" how to throw righty...

 

[optic yellow]

100%

thx.
it helps when i'm regularly explaining details to someone like my daughter, who's always questioning every tip i give her (surprised she's not already a regular on ttw )
committing the knowledge into muscle memory takes alot of correct reps (many many layers of myelin!), and then it feels like i'm starting all over again as difficulty of depth/pace/spin increase...
as a serve warmup, my daughter and i throw a (junior) football around for a few minutes, and for symmetry also throw lefty (non-dominant hand).... we go from tight spiral to end-over-end tumble, despite "knowing" how to throw righty...

Well she could be. It's not like she would want you to know.

I actually surprise myself when throwing lefty how well I am able to generate spin once I focus a bit on it. But of course can't achieve both that and the power level.