When did the Federer forehand start to decline?

metsman

G.O.A.T.
I was actually a fan of Novak back then believe it or not. I loved that return and the gestures to the crowd. Was still pulling for Federer of course.
of course if it was Federer who made the server wait an extra 10 seconds on match point the haters would be crying about it for the next 20 years...Don't really hvave a problem with what Djoker did but just saying the hilarious double standards.
 
I think not;)

It was very average in the first set. This is what he was pulling off in the second set:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=tbFPE1NYFr8#t=450s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=tbFPE1NYFr8#t=516s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=tbFPE1NYFr8#t=532s

Or you could just watch the highlights video from the start of the first link. Federer's forehand was nuts in 2004 - including in this match/set. Nadal played an awesome game to break in that 2nd set. Don't know how he did it given that Fed was playing well, Nadal was so young, and Nadal didn't seem to be relying on his anti-Fed game in this match. Very impressive.

[/QUOTE]
Starting at 1m 01 s in that video , I can't figure out why Federer wouldnt hit a more angled approach shot and/or a deeper ball? The one he does hit looks like he's trying to go back behind Nadal. It has heavier top spin, but lands around the service line giving Nadal enough to recover and hit a passing shot. :confused:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=tbFPE1NYFr8#t=61s
 

metsman

G.O.A.T.
Starting at 1m 01 s in that video , I can't figure out why Federer wouldnt hit a more angled approach shot and/or a deeper ball? The one he does hit looks like he's trying to go back behind Nadal. It has heavier top spin, but lands around the service line giving Nadal enough to recover and hit a passing shot. :confused:

you know that Federer was sick the whole tournament right
 
V

VexlanderPrime

Guest
Right out the womb. Fed peaked at birth, been all decline since then. That's the only reason he's ever lost a point - those chumps got to play declined 20+ y/o Fed. Never had to face Peak Baby Fed.
 

beltsman

G.O.A.T.
Starting at 1m 01 s in that video , I can't figure out why Federer wouldnt hit a more angled approach shot and/or a deeper ball? The one he does hit looks like he's trying to go back behind Nadal. It has heavier top spin, but lands around the service line giving Nadal enough to recover and hit a passing shot. :confused:

[/QUOTE]

He always did and always will make bad decisions when it comes to hitting behind players and trying to wrongfoot them. He plays with fire too much for his own good.
 

BeatlesFan

Bionic Poster
Fed's FH started to decline as he declined, which would be mid-2008. He never played at the same level as consistently ever again. Some of the decline has to have been mental too, as Nadal ruthlessly robbed Roger of his confidence.
 
Starting at 1m 01 s in that video , I can't figure out why Federer wouldnt hit a more angled approach shot and/or a deeper ball? The one he does hit looks like he's trying to go back behind Nadal. It has heavier top spin, but lands around the service line giving Nadal enough to recover and hit a passing shot. :confused:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=tbFPE1NYFr8&t=61s



He hits that bad approach short and straight every now and then:

  1. From above post, at 61s www.youtube.com/watch?v=tbFPE1NYFr8&t=61s

  2. vs Milos Raonic 2016 Wimbledon SF at 12 minutes and 25 seconds to lose the 4th set:www.youtube.com/watch?v=bljGR7wSk70&t=12m25s

  3. again at 13minutes and 18 seconds in the 5th set: www.youtube.com/watch?v=bljGR7wSk70&t=13m10s
 
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merwy

G.O.A.T.
When he changed his racket he said that it made his serve and topspin backhand better, but made his forehand and slice backhand worse. So it kind of balanced his game. Not sure if this is a good or bad thing for him.
 

Rally

Professional
In 2007 when he changed his takeback. He was more error-prone with it and lost the blistering speed he could seemingly produce out of nowhere. 2004-2006 was his peak. 2007-2009 was a level below, which was still enough to dominate the tour but it declined slightly every year along with his footwork and how much he used his legs to generate power in the stroke. Every year after that it's gotten worse at a faster rate than from 2007-2009 but the final nail in the coffin was the Pro Staff 97. He just can't control the power that the racket gives him. Watch this video for reference to see that he actually changed his forehand in 2007. The forehand in 2007 and 2008 is the one we are accustomed to seeing from him today and for the past 8 years. He completely gave up on the flatter yet more effective forehand from 2004-2006.


 

nadalfan2013

Professional
His forehand never declined, it's his confidence and mental strength that declined. Rafa pretty much exposed Federer and after that everyone started having more confidence against him. Federer started doubting himself. The problem was always mental. Federer was not used to someone being such a fighter and challenging him, he had it very easy between 2003-2007 against opponents who would bend for him before the match began. That's the truth.
 

Rally

Professional
His forehand never declined, it's his confidence and mental strength that declined. Rafa pretty much exposed Federer and after that everyone started having more confidence against him. Federer started doubting himself. The problem was always mental. Federer was not used to someone being such a fighter and challenging him, he had it very easy between 2003-2007 against opponents who would bend for him before the match began. That's the truth.
Just watch the video, man. There is indisputable tangible evidence that he changed his technique. From 2007 onwards he stopped hitting as big and flat as he used to hit pre-2007.

 

nadalfan2013

Professional
Just watch the video, man. There is indisputable tangible evidence that he changed his technique.

All I know is that even in his matches vs Nadal, in many cases Federer started on fire with leading the match by hitting ace after ace and forehand winner after forehand winner. Then while other players would have folded, eventually Nadal plays an unbelievable couple of points, breaks back, screams "VAMOS" and then Federer mentally collapses and starts missing everything. That is the truth. Tennis wise, Federer never declined that much, it's his mental strength that declined.
 

Sartorius

Hall of Fame
His forehand never declined, it's his confidence and mental strength that declined. Rafa pretty much exposed Federer and after that everyone started having more confidence against him. Federer started doubting himself. The problem was always mental. Federer was not used to someone being such a fighter and challenging him, he had it very easy between 2003-2007 against opponents who would bend for him before the match began. That's the truth.

All I know is that even in his matches vs Nadal, in many cases Federer started on fire with leading the match by hitting ace after ace and forehand winner after forehand winner. Then while other players would have folded, eventually Nadal plays an unbelievable couple of points, breaks back, screams "VAMOS" and then Federer mentally collapses and starts missing everything. That is the truth. Tennis wise, Federer never declined that much, it's his mental strength that declined.

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Rally

Professional
All I know is that even in his matches vs Nadal, in many cases Federer started on fire with leading the match by hitting ace after ace and forehand winner after forehand winner. Then while other players would have folded, eventually Nadal plays an unbelievable couple of points, breaks back, screams "VAMOS" and then Federer mentally collapses and starts missing everything. That is the truth. Tennis wise, Federer never declined that much, it's his mental strength that declined.
Alright fine, your man Big Dick Nadal schlonged Federer long and hard. Nadal number 1! Federer number 1000000! Happy? Now can we please move past this irrelevant tangent and actually move on to the intent of the original question and talk about his technique change in 2007? Players don't do everything 100% the same physically and suck because they aren't mentally strong. Even if they are mentally weak, it bleeds into the physical part; the technique. Federer's forehand declined when he started hitting it differently.
 

nadalfan2013

Professional
Alright fine, your man Big Dick Nadal schlonged Federer long and hard. Nadal number 1! Federer number 1000000! Happy? Now can we please move past this irrelevant tangent and actually move on to the intent of the original question and talk about his technique change in 2007? Players don't do everything 100% the same physically and suck because they aren't mentally strong. Even if they are mentally weak, it bleeds into the physical part; the technique. Federer's forehand declined when he started hitting it differently.

This is coming from the fanbase who turned my thread about Federer's Slam finals into a Federer outfit picture thread. :rolleyes:
 

Rally

Professional
This is coming from the fanbase who turned my thread about Federer's Slam finals into a Federer outfit picture thread. :rolleyes:
I wasn't a part of that. All I know is that I am trying to contribute to what I assumed was a technical discussion and you're just trying to take cheap shots for Nadal and detracting the conversation from what the question is asking for. I still stand by what I said; the shot only declined when he physically changed something from when he was hitting it at his best. That was the technique change in 2007.
 
very easy.....after 2006, in 2007.

when federer started to changes his forehand for a more spinny forehand and less flatter, all for win garros and nadal.

THAT WAS THE BIGGEST ERROR OF HIS CAREER.........because he never could beat nadal on clay in garros and he lost effectivity in faster surfaces, losing with rivals that he should won.

he sacrifice very of his attacking tennis for beat nadal in RG, and he would win garros in 2009 without changes nothing
 

dr7

Rookie
Fed is racing against time. His movement isn't quite as good and other players are hitting harder. Both of these have nothing to do with his stroke, but I suspect he isn't in as good a position to unload, he has less time. Also, players are used to seeing big forehands now and Federer's isn't anything that scares people any more. Can't pinpoint a specific time when it regressed, it was gradual over time.
 

Rally

Professional
Fed is racing against time. His movement isn't quite as good and other players are hitting harder. Both of these have nothing to do with his stroke, but I suspect he isn't in as good a position to unload, he has less time. Also, players are used to seeing big forehands now and Federer's isn't anything that scares people any more. Can't pinpoint a specific time when it regressed, it was gradual over time.
He definitely regressed over time, but his old technique was superior to his new technique because he could dictate play with the old one so much better. Granted it required tons of athleticism to use because he had to always be in the right spot at the right time. He lost his legs over the years and with that he lost his pace from his already lower powered technique. Now that he is using the 97" frame, he can't even flatten out his forehand and take big cuts at the ball like he used to because he can barely manage to hit not overhit aggressive forehands with his spinny technique.
 

dr7

Rookie
He definitely regressed over time, but his old technique was superior to his new technique because he could dictate play with the old one so much better. Granted it required tons of athleticism to use because he had to always be in the right spot at the right time. He lost his legs over the years and with that he lost his pace from his already lower powered technique. Now that he is using the 97" frame, he can't even flatten out his forehand and take big cuts at the ball like he used to because he can barely manage to hit not overhit aggressive forehands with his spinny technique.

I understand, but the game moves on and forward. Even if Fed had his "old" FH, I doubt it would be as effective as it once was and wouldn't be characterized as one of the bigger FHs on the tour today. Time.
 

Rally

Professional
I understand, but the game moves on and forward. Even if Fed had his "old" FH, I doubt it would be as effective as it once was and wouldn't be characterized as one of the bigger FHs on the tour today. Time.
On the slowed down courts of today, I agree with you. If we wind the clock back 10 years to when the courts played faster, I think he would still be as dominant as he was then.
 
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