When it comes to racquets, your local pro shop is the enemy?

[time_fly]

We have a small "pro shop" in our club that pimps the latest Babolats, Heads, and Wilsons. Even within those lines, they never carry any of the softer, smaller-headed, or heavier "player" sticks like the Ultra Tour, RF, Pure Aero Tour, etc. It's mostly the "lite" and "spin" versions. And the pros at the club are in on it via sponsorship: most players ask what their favorite club pro thinks they should play, and they end up with a light, stiff game-improvement stick like a Pure Drive Lite or Ultra 103S. It's especially sad to see this happen to so many talented but non-gearheaded 4.0s and 4.5s or upcoming strong juniors. It's so sad to see these players never even exposed to players' racquets or quality offerings from other brands like Yonex, Volkl, or Prince. Is there any way to shake up the monopoly?

 

[Rabbit]

About the only way is for more folks to buy what you've described. I guarantee you the pro shop's inventory is driven by what they can sell and more importantly what they can sell without discounting. I'd also wager they can get any player's frame you'd like and would most likely give you a demo price on the first one or stock a demo in that model

 

[time_fly]

About the only way is for more folks to buy what you've described. I guarantee you the pro shop's inventory is driven by what they can sell and more importantly what they can sell without discounting. I'd also wager they can get any player's frame you'd like and would most likely give you a demo price on the first one or stock a demo in that model

Partially, but there's a catch-22. The shop carries and the pros recommend a certain subset of racquets. 90% of the customers never even ask for anything else because they only know about what's in the shop and they plan to go with whatever option(s) the pro recommends that they try -- which are always happen to be the items in the shop as far as I've seen. So most customers can't ask for anything else because they don't know anything else exists.

 

[Alexrb]

Partially, but there's a catch-22. The shop carries and the pros recommend a certain subset of racquets. 90% of the customers never even ask for anything else because they only know about what's in the shop and they plan to go with whatever option(s) the pro recommends that they try -- which are always happen to be the items in the shop as far as I've seen. So most customers can't ask for anything else because they don't know anything else exists.

I would just be happy you have a local pro shop. With amazon/TW/holla/etc I can't imagine how hard it is for them compete. If they carry more variety they might be left with more unsold product (which just eats into profits).

 

[jonestim]

We had a pretty good local pro shop. They didn't carry the most traditional "players" frames of each line, but they still had a few modern players frames. They would carry the Prince Textreme Tour 100P, but not the 95. With the previous models, they would carry the 16x18 Tour 100, but not the 18x20 or the Tour 95.

They kept the store stocked with a good variety of strings, clothes, balls and accessories. Leather grips in stock - check. Natural gut - check. Lead tape - check. 3 or 4 brands of shoes with lots of sizes. I didn't know how good we had it.

One of the partners passed away and the other decided to sell.

The new owners of the shop have about half the product in the same space. They carry fewer lines and have less options within the lines. The string selection is not great. You can have any ball you want as long as it is a regular Penn or ProPenn. They have been through four managers in a year and a half, some of which knew little about the sport and the gear. One was amazed that I wanted to buy a leather grip. They had none in stock and he offered to sell me a used one off a used racquet they had on the wall.

With the old shop, I would spend about half my money locally and half online. After giving the new shop 4 or 5 chances, about the only thing I buy there is tennis balls.

 

[nvr2old]

I live in SoCal and honestly local tennis shops besides big box sporting goods stores are rare. I recently went to Palm Springs where tennis is fairly big in winter and found only 2 shops with any inventory to speak of. One was a local golf and tennis store and other was large PGA superstore mostly catering to golf although I picked up a 2015 RFA97 used in great shape cheap. Very difficult to buy at brick and mortar store. Honestly TW beats everyone IMO.

 

[CopolyX]

local small shops and pro shops are dying, true the good ones (good to thier core customers) are pretty rare, but there are out there.
I would and do support the goods ones.
Tough times -online is killing them; my local babolat (also babalot is tough on pricing to say the least on them) dealer, is pretty much a one man show...running his tiny shop, stringing, teaching, club duties..
He has been great to me and from what I shave seen also others. Because of this,I point players to him and will continue to help him out.
The ones that don't have good business practices will die soon away... Some clubs that have them, squeeze the hell out of them, sad..
Vote with your dollar, speak the truth..

 

[Old Skool Graphite]

Businesses have an obligation to their own profits and the welfare of their employees. Therefore they have to sell what is most likely to generate revenue. That's stuff we see on TV. Stuff that Nadal and Fed use or endorse.

 

[Attila_the_gorilla]

In today's world, there's no excuse for any customer to buy rackets without doing some basic research. Asking a retailer for advice doesn't qualify for research.

 

[FearlessAnimal]

Nowadays "pro shop in club" is the last place to buy racquet -- choice is limited and items are overpriced. The only reason to buy anything "in club" is when you're in hurry: you forgot balls or overgrip or your shoelace just broke

Even strings better to buy earlier because in small shops there is always problem with proper gauge -- friend of mine twice in a row strung with 1.35mm instead of 1.25mm which he was looking for.

 

[Bartelby]

Small businesses in this context are beggars and not choosers. The large manufacturers have the greater say in what they sell and to whom they will sell it.

Businesses have an obligation to their own profits and the welfare of their employees. Therefore they have to sell what is most likely to generate revenue. That's stuff we see on TV. Stuff that Nadal and Fed use or endorse.

 

[CopolyX]

In today's world, there's no excuse for any customer to buy rackets without doing some basic research. Asking a retailer for advice doesn't qualify for research.

True but it happens a lot or they buy the nice one with cool paint....., also how many threads here have you seen...find me a racquet please....

 

[CopolyX]

Small businesses in this context are beggars and not choosers. The large manufacturers have the greater say in what they sell and to whom they will sell it.

yes.. like i stated....it is tough....have a mba...so know a little...a small business needs good ears & great enthusiasm.....customers are key...

 

[DNShade]

My local pro shop is actually pretty good. Just a few miles down the road, has pretty much any and everything you can think of tennis-wise - demos of every frame made - used sticks - fantastic selection of strings - and sometimes even great old vintage frames as well - you name it.

Gotta say, it's kinda nice to have TW as your local pro shop.

 

[Chadillac]

In today's world, there's no excuse for any customer to buy rackets without doing some basic research. Asking a retailer for advice doesn't qualify for research.

Thats what makes the local pro shop so nice, they charge a bit more but have seen you play and explain why they think its a good choice. Then let you demo it. Most people dont play like they think they do, they want more topspin so buy rafa's racket.

 

[mark b.]

It may or may not come as a surprise you, but I recently had the opportunity to attend a social event at our tennis club for all 4.0, 4.5 and 5.0 players. The subject of racquets came up and I asked the group of males (approx 25) if any of them could tell me the static weight, balance or RA of their current frames.
I think only two knew what RA was. A couple said they thought their frames were over 11 ounces but didn't know. Nobody....NOBODY knew the balance. At least they knew headlight,, even balance or head heavy. Most claimed to be headlight.

And we all wonder why Pro Shops sell the bright shiny frames? It's because very few people go by specification, they go by feel or they simply adapt to the present under the tree.

What did come out of the discussion was that most of the 4.5 and 5.0's have played with the same frame for at least the last 5 years. I found that more 4.0's change frames. Oh, and yes, most of the upper players played with "player frames" but oddly there were two very good 4.5's who play with what I'd call a granny sticks.

Pro Shops stock what they can sell and if the buying public doesn't know their preferred spec, then they are at the mercy of the Pro Shop owner. I haven't bought a frame from a tennis shop in 12 years.

 

[vandre]

i might be an atypical customer, but i have never found i racquet i wanted to hit with at any local pro shop i've ever been it. yonex has been my brand of choice since 2006 (despite and occasional dalliance with a pogos or belgian donnay); however, i would have to drive over 4 hours to get to a local pro shop that carries yonex racquets. now, i can put my kids in the van and make about 4 billion potty stops in those 4 hours or i can send some money to my friends at tw and they will send me some yonexes to try and if i find one i like, they have it in stock in a variety of grips.

 

[Bartelby]

We have at least four comprehensive pro shops in a city of 1.5 million: one attached to TA, two attached to universities, and one private.

 

[Christian Olsson]

In Malmoe, Sweden, just 55 km from where I live there’s a fantastic pro shop where he stocks all kind of players spec racquets, customising service, stringing with an expensive Babolat machine, have a couple dozen good selection strings. Only thing is that he doesn’t stock Volkls but all other things I buy there. And restring of course. He is nice, knowledgeable and can steer one right through the jungle. If I buy the Prince phantom it’s there I put my money. Volkls; TW.

 

[kramer woodie]

We have a small "pro shop" in our club that pimps the latest Babolats, Heads, and Wilsons. Even within those lines, they never carry any of the softer, smaller-headed, or heavier "player" sticks like the Ultra Tour, RF, Pure Aero Tour, etc. It's mostly the "lite" and "spin" versions. And the pros at the club are in on it via sponsorship: most players ask what their favorite club pro thinks they should play, and they end up with a light, stiff game-improvement stick like a Pure Drive Lite or Ultra 103S. It's especially sad to see this happen to so many talented but non-gearheaded 4.0s and 4.5s or upcoming strong juniors. It's so sad to see these players never even exposed to players' racquets or quality offerings from other brands like Yonex, Volkl, or Prince. Is there any way to shake up the monopoly?

time_fly

It is today's mind set. Take a recommended pill, be an instant tennis pro. You just can't fix stupid!!! Don't be lazy, do some research.
Put forth some effort. Duh, it is simple, do whatever it takes to get the results you want.

But please, Stop Bitchin, it is not somebody else's fault! Happy New Year.

Aloha

 

[Notirouswithag]

local tennis and pro shops to me are basically non existant that carry anything outside of traditional head, wilson and babolat stuff. Same with the strings. the only two local bigger local pro shops only carry wilson, luxilon and some tecnifibre strings; i always have to order strings I want online through ******* or TW and its just a pain if i want it asap

 

[Deleted member 23235]

We have a small "pro shop" in our club that pimps the latest Babolats, Heads, and Wilsons. Even within those lines, they never carry any of the softer, smaller-headed, or heavier "player" sticks like the Ultra Tour, RF, Pure Aero Tour, etc. It's mostly the "lite" and "spin" versions. And the pros at the club are in on it via sponsorship: most players ask what their favorite club pro thinks they should play, and they end up with a light, stiff game-improvement stick like a Pure Drive Lite or Ultra 103S. It's especially sad to see this happen to so many talented but non-gearheaded 4.0s and 4.5s or upcoming strong juniors. It's so sad to see these players never even exposed to players' racquets or quality offerings from other brands like Yonex, Volkl, or Prince. Is there any way to shake up the monopoly?

a surgeon is gonna find something to operate on
a mechanic is gonna find something wrong with your car
a car sales is gonna want to sell you a car (who cares if you already have 3 you can't afford)
a doctor is gonna prescribe whatever drugs his hospital/practice gets a kickback from (why don't they ever prescribe generics, first?)
a tennis pro shop is gonna want to sell you a new racquet

a non-gearheaded tennis player (or anyone not very knowledgeable), deserves to get upsold

that said, a service-based-sales person will guide you in the right direction, regardless of whether they make a sale or not, but we, as the consumer, need to pay that consultation fee... but instead, like most folks, we're too cheap to pay for good advice (granted, the definition of "good" is debatable, it's not like there's a racquet-recommending-certification).

IMO, find a good pro, preferably someone who has a resume (d1, atp, popular published expert, etc...), and ask their opinion during the lesson. they probably can't recommend a specific (modern) racquet (they might even say buy a 1990's racquet!), but they can educate you on the qualities to look for, and then you can ask more intelligent questions to the tennis pro shop sales person (ie. i want 5pts head light, ~12oz+, stiff/soft frame, etc... )

 

[Tailofdog2]

In today's world, there's no excuse for any customer to buy rackets without doing some basic research. Asking a retailer for advice doesn't qualify for research.

So true!

 

[CopolyX]

So true!

Or a lemming... as noted in the numerous posts of
please find me a racquet.....

 

[brownbearfalling]

I worked at a small tennis shop. In reality,
The percentage of players who “want” a heavier smaller headsize frame is low.

Even lower is the percentage of players who “need” a smaller headsize heavier racquet. A good portion of people who came in buying the Roger Federer 90 or Andy roddick Limited pure drive can benefit more from the lighter verisons of those frames.

Then of those players who want a players racquets a small percentage walk into tennis shops asking advice from Joe Smoe working the shop. Most know what they want and can tell from listed specifications if they would like the frame or not. If unsure TW has a good demo program and these forums provide a lot of information. All that considered, it’s hard to sell players frames at a store. Same goes for extended length frames and gimmicky frames.

 

[ollinger]

^^^ would agree, most recreational players are probably better off with less demanding frames, and I don't think OP makes a case that these players are being led in the wrong direction. The purpose of a "pro shop" is not to treat us all like pros, but rather to facilitate customers playing to their potential and enjoying the game. That the OP finds it "sad" that some players are only exposed to few brands of racquets at these shops amused me; there simply isn't enough difference between the different lines to make it imperative to carry half a dozen or more brands.

 

[santiago_rios]

We have a small "pro shop" in our club that pimps the latest Babolats, Heads, and Wilsons. Even within those lines, they never carry any of the softer, smaller-headed, or heavier "player" sticks like the Ultra Tour, RF, Pure Aero Tour, etc. It's mostly the "lite" and "spin" versions. And the pros at the club are in on it via sponsorship: most players ask what their favorite club pro thinks they should play, and they end up with a light, stiff game-improvement stick like a Pure Drive Lite or Ultra 103S. It's especially sad to see this happen to so many talented but non-gearheaded 4.0s and 4.5s or upcoming strong juniors. It's so sad to see these players never even exposed to players' racquets or quality offerings from other brands like Yonex, Volkl, or Prince. Is there any way to shake up the monopoly?

They do the same in Music shops too. The salespeople will sell only what they have to you, always recommend only what they have.

 

[Karma Tennis]

Q/ What is the main purpose for a tennis racquet and its string?
A/ To hit a tennis ball.

People have a tendency to obsess about tennis equipment. IME, a player will achieve 80% of their potential using pretty much any reasonable tennis racquet and string as long as they are properly taught how to hit the tennis ball. 80% of potential is usually good enough for most players.

Realising most of the last 20% comes from the hard work put in over a long period of time practising. Refining the equipment probably only contributes about 5% and that only comes about after most of the hard work has been put into effect.

This is borne out by the fact that many professional tennis players tend to stick with similar racquets they used when they were juniors. And much of the time, the decision made to acquire those racquets in the first place weren't based on any objective scientific process.

Of course, as coaches, parents, and players become better informed about all of this, we may start to see better processes being used to select racquets and strings especially for juniors. But for the most part, the majority of people aren't that interested in all of this, or they don't see enough benefit to worry about.

Near enough is often good enough. C'est la vie!

 

[Sambuccashake]

I think they struggle with the same reality as the manufacturers of racquets. They need to sell. Year round all year. So they play along.
"This new and improved cool thing is what you need. That will be list price thank you very much..."

I get looks when I bring my Angell and non pro shop pack of strings in for stringing.
But then again, they make money of me but only from the services they give.

 

[TennisCJC]

in general, I agree that tennis shops and some tennis pros make some weird recommendations. I know a 60 year old female who hits all slice, plays competitive 4.5 doubles and her game is based on coming to the net. she recently got a racket and it was a Wilson spin open pattern something or another frame strung with NXT Control a poly/nylon multi. I thought the racket and string were both weird for her game and level.

 

[TennisCJC]

Q/ What is the main purpose for a tennis racquet and its string?
A/ To hit a tennis ball.

People have a tendency to obsess about tennis equipment. IME, a player will achieve 80% of their potential using pretty much any reasonable tennis racquet and string as long as they are properly taught how to hit the tennis ball. 80% of potential is usually good enough for most players.

Realising most of the last 20% comes from the hard work put in over a long period of time practising. Refining the equipment probably only contributes about 5% and that only comes about after most of the hard work has been put into effect.

This is borne out by the fact that many professional tennis players tend to stick with similar racquets they used when they were juniors. And much of the time, the decision made to acquire those racquets in the first place weren't based on any objective scientific process.

Of course, as coaches, parents, and players become better informed about all of this, we may start to see better processes being used to select racquets and strings especially for juniors. But for the most part, the majority of people aren't that interested in all of this, or they don't see enough benefit to worry about.

Near enough is often good enough. C'est la vie!

Agreed, it's the carpenter and not the tools for the most part, but some rackets and strings just aren't good fits for some players. I see old guys with slow swing speeds and conti grips using all poly in a 95" head with a thin beam. I know I 5.0 female that absolutely creams the FH and she is using an OS Pure Drive that is the super light version with a low SW strung with nylon. She complains of elbow pain but her frame is so light it doesn't absorb any shock and she wallops the FH. maybe these example fall outside of what you call reasonable. In general, I agree a reasonable racket and string for you game is all you need. My opinion is it would be better to err on the side of comfort and control. I think most anyone from 3.0 to 7.0 could play with 18x20 MG Radical Mid+ or the MG Radical OS. It is soft, controllable, comfortable, has good power with the right string and moderately stable.

 

[langdon0555]

Nowadays "pro shop in club" is the last place to buy racquet -- choice is limited and items are overpriced. The only reason to buy anything "in club" is when you're in hurry: you forgot balls or overgrip or your shoelace just broke

Even strings better to buy earlier because in small shops there is always problem with proper gauge -- friend of mine twice in a row strung with 1.35mm instead of 1.25mm which he was looking for.

You mentioned things being overpriced locally. My local shop actually sells pretty much all frames at a lower price than TW.

 

[sureshs]

Nowadays "pro shop in club" is the last place to buy racquet -- choice is limited and items are overpriced. The only reason to buy anything "in club" is when you're in hurry: you forgot balls or overgrip or your shoelace just broke

Even strings better to buy earlier because in small shops there is always problem with proper gauge -- friend of mine twice in a row strung with 1.35mm instead of 1.25mm which he was looking for.

Exactly. Nostalgia about brick and mortar shops is misplaced. They were always about profit - that is how any business operates. Making them out to be some saintly outfit because they know your name is not justified.

My local pro shop guy told me he will not carry Volkls and Yonexes because they don't sell. He is a preferred Wilson dealer so that is what he mainly pushes. And the racket expertise he has is nothing compared to what you can find at TW. And in any case, 93% of his business comes from the store's website and the Bay, not the retail store!

As was mentioned above, his racket prices can be actually cheaper than TW, because while TW cannot sell below a certain price because of agreements, he can bypass this by keeping the same price but throwing in a premier string and stringing labor also, effectively lowering the racket price.

But again as mentioned above, his string selection is limited. So overall it is simpler to just get stuff delivered from TW with free shipping inside CA.

 

[sureshs]

Some of the pro shops I have seen inside clubs and resorts are really pathetic. They have basically come to serve only a few purposes: emergency stuff like balls, sun screen etc., dropping off point for stringers, and front desk, computer and phone services for the facility and teaching pros. A gathering place, if you will.

 

[Lucas2015]

Yes, its the enemy. They show you the expensive frame $$$ and say a pro uses it. And they know nothing, any talk tennis poster knows more than them (at least in my city).

BUT most buyers are really stupid so they deserve it. Nobody should ask for advice direct from the seller...
And this is why talk tennis must exist.. Until sellers begin to post here as a ( fake) consumer

 

[kramer woodie]

First life lesson: BUYER BEWARE! Second life lesson: A FOOL IS SOON SEPARATED FROM HIS MONEY! Third life lesson: YA CAN"T FIX STUPID!

Fourth life lesson: LEARN TO SAY NO!

Aloha

 

[Bartelby]

FIFTH LESSON: STUPID SOMETIMES RULES, OK?

 

[jmacdaununder2]

Yes, its the enemy. They show you the expensive frame $$$ and say a pro uses it. And they know nothing, any talk tennis poster knows more than them (at least in my city).

BUT most buyers are really stupid so they deserve it. Nobody should ask for advice direct from the seller...
And this is whay talk tennis must exist.. Until sellers begin to post here as a ( fake) consumer

S#!t!! They're on to me!! (Actually as a Prince user, it's pretty obvious I'm not a seller; not too many of those around!!)

 

[Jbou]

We have a small "pro shop" in our club that pimps the latest Babolats, Heads, and Wilsons. Even within those lines, they never carry any of the softer, smaller-headed, or heavier "player" sticks like the Ultra Tour, RF, Pure Aero Tour, etc. It's mostly the "lite" and "spin" versions. And the pros at the club are in on it via sponsorship: most players ask what their favorite club pro thinks they should play, and they end up with a light, stiff game-improvement stick like a Pure Drive Lite or Ultra 103S. It's especially sad to see this happen to so many talented but non-gearheaded 4.0s and 4.5s or upcoming strong juniors. It's so sad to see these players never even exposed to players' racquets or quality offerings from other brands like Yonex, Volkl, or Prince. Is there any way to shake up the monopoly?

For the common 4.0, it will be unproductive to use a player's racquet, unless you only want enjoy the feeling of the frame, not in competition, which is understandable. But when it comes to competition for 3.5 or 4.0, you need efficiency and tolerance, provided by tweeners. With players racquet, those person may enjoy hitting but will be frustrated by many errors and lost matches.

 

[Jbou]

I'm also disappointed that pro-shops do not provide more different racquets or brand like prince and volkl. Yonex is quite present in proshops in France.

 

[TennisCJC]

For the common 4.0, it will be unproductive to use a player's racquet, unless you only want enjoy the feeling of the frame, not in competition, which is understandable. But when it comes to competition for 3.5 or 4.0, you need efficiency and tolerance, provided by tweeners. With players racquet, those person may enjoy hitting but will be frustrated by many errors and lost matches.

i am old and use a players racket (over 12 oz, 19mm beam, 6HL, 335SW) and play at 4.0 level. I won all my matches in the last league season and many of those wins were against the players wielding tweeners. I think some 3.5 and 4.0 players will play better with player's frames and some with tweeners.

 

[Karma Tennis]

i am old and use a players racket (over 12 oz, 19mm beam, 6HL, 335SW) and play at 4.0 level. I won all my matches in the last league season and many of those wins were against the players wielding tweeners. I think some 3.5 and 4.0 players will play better with player's frames and some with tweeners.

Do you do a lot of hitting outside of matches? I find that players who spend a lot of hours on the court will usually derive great benefits from racquets in the "Player's Racquet" category. Weekend Warrior players who spend less time on the practice courts tend to be better served by "Tweener" racquets.

Of course, this is a bit of a generalisation. There are always exceptions. And I often see situations where players that have used "Player Frames" for a while find it difficult to adjust to a "Tweener frame" even if they started out playing tennis with the "Tweener".

I note that you have mentioned static weight, beam size, head balance and SW in your description. I myself, also look at Hoop size. I find it hard to accept that anything larger than 97 SqInches could ever be a "Player's Racquet" in the Men's game regardless of the other specs. And yet you have a guy like Rafa who has always used a 100 SqInch hoop and dominated the game for much of it.

Babolat and Rafa did the tennis industry inc. Pro Shops all over the world a HUGE favor because it became a lot easier to sell people 100 SqInch racquets.