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rnrockz1
Guest
^^^^^^^^^^^
TheFifthSet
Legend
Whoever voted Federer . . . . . . yikes . . . . .
Karlovic BY FAR. Followed by Isner, Roddick, Querrey, Tsonga, and then Federer (IMO).
Karlovic BY FAR. Followed by Isner, Roddick, Querrey, Tsonga, and then Federer (IMO).
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rnrockz1
Guest
Karlovic and Isner have the same effects with someone returning their serves..
ubermeyer
Hall of Fame
lol
Karlovic: Service Games won: 92% - Almost all people capable of breaking him even once are in the top 10.
Average 1st serve speed: over 130
#2 in # of aces hit in a season; Goran was higher only because courts are faster
Only failed to hit an ace in a match once
Fastest 2nd serve Record Holder (144 mph)
Fastest 1st serve ever: 153 mph (out wide, too)
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rnrockz1
Guest
Who cares about the facts when it comes to serves..his serve is overated- if Federer can break him but he cant break Roddick then there's a problem..
TheFifthSet
Legend
I have to respectfully disagree. The angles Karlovic creates on his serve are sick. His ground game is terrible, probably not even top 1000, yet he wins 92-93% of his service games.
I believe he's won something like 90% of his service games against top 20 players. Federer had broken him 13 times in all of their meetings (I believe they've met 10-11 times.)
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ubermeyer
Hall of Fame
How is his serve overrated? For the record even Federer usually beats him in straight sets, but he rarely breaks him.
Who cares about the facts? I do... You should too. For example, there could be a player who serves over 9000 mph every time, hits 100% first serves in, and aces every time... Yet you could brush aside these, saying "Who cares about the facts?" and say Nadal's serve is better.
You could, but you'd be wrong. I believe you're wrong in this case as well.
TheFifthSet
Legend
Federer has broken Karlovic less than 10% of the time. He may have had a helluva time reading Roddick's serve at this year's Wimby, but one match is far too small a sample size.
pennc94
Professional
In addition Karlovic saves 70% of his break points (also #1 in ATP).
Not overrated at all.
ubermeyer
Hall of Fame
Great catch, I knew I was missing something.
There's probably other Karlovic service-related stuff I'm missing too...
CountryHillbilly
Banned
It's whose, not who's.
Anyway, Karlovic obviously. Nobody can break him when he has a good day.
Anyway, Karlovic obviously. Nobody can break him when he has a good day.
DownTheLine
Hall of Fame
Your only thinking wimby 09...
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rnrockz1
Guest
Actually, you're right- and btw Nadal's serve is better lol
ubermeyer
Hall of Fame
drakulie
Talk Tennis Guru
Ivo's serve statistics are severely padded. Look at his stats from this year and his stats against lesser oponents vs higher ranked opponents.
Just to give an example of what I'm talking about look at his number vs Mahut (ranked 146) at The Queens Club Tourney this year.
Aces
19 1
Double Faults
01
1st Serve
61% (37/60) 74% (43/5 8
1st Serve Points Won
75% (28/37)67% (29/43)
2nd Serve Points Won
65% (15/23)46% (7/15)
Break Points Saved
100% (2/2)66% (4/6)
Service Games Played
109
Now look at the very next match vs, Roddick (ranked 6)
Statistics on Service
Aces
26 24
Double Faults
02
1st Serve
71% (53/74) 77% (56/72)
1st Serve Points Won
90% (48/53) 89% (50/56)
2nd Serve Points Won
57% (12/21) 68% (11/16)
Break Points Saved
100% (2/2) 0% (0/0)
Service Games Played
1212
ubermeyer
Hall of Fame
Neither Mahut nor Roddick broke him...
But I don't understand the last stat. Service games played??? I'm pretty sure he hit more than 74 1st serves in 1212 service games.
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rnrockz1
Guest
drakulie
Talk Tennis Guru
12 services games for IVO, 12 for Roddick.
Point being is, his statistics are padded. He absolutely dominates the guys so much who are ranked lower than him, that by the time he plays a "top 10" and loses, it doesn't matter because he leads tournament in every category.
If his serve was really as good as you all say it is, he would do better when playing better opponents, and he doesn''t.
ubermeyer
Hall of Fame
Wait... what? He lost because he lost the tiebreak. I'm only talking about his serve, not his all-round game. His serve was not broken by Roddick or Mahut. He dominates everyone with his service games, however the higher ranked players are able to take the tiebreaks, and maybe occasionally even break Karlovic.
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rnrockz1
Guest
Good point. We're talking about whos serve is more effective...
TheFifthSet
Legend
Sure, but that's only one example. Karlovic holds over 90% of the time against top 20 players this year. I'd say that's a far better sample size.
As to why he doesn't have much overall success against higher ranked players, well . . . . you need not look further than his return of serve to find out why.
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TheFifthSet
Legend
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rnrockz1
Guest
Only against Federer it seems though
TheFifthSet
Legend
His career TB record is 164-160. Seeing as his singles record is 159-142, what would you expect?
drakulie
Talk Tennis Guru
and if you look at the roddick match, roddicks serve was more effective. Just look at the stats.
What I'm trying to explain is that although he has great numbers, they are in part "great" because of the competition the numbers are taken from. he does so incredibly well against lower ranked guys, that once he plays his first tough opponent and loses, his numbers are not skewed. In other words, if he were to continue winning through the tournament, and get deeper in the draw, he would undoubtedly get "broken more", because of the better players he is facing. Alas, we will never know because he immediately loses when he hits the top 10 guys.
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rnrockz1
Guest
Reminder: Karlovic has beaten Federer...
CountryHillbilly
Banned
Correcting a native English speaker, shame on you.
Well, not why? I alowd kritisize neytive inglish tt pousters . i hev human rite kritisise they wat write. u hev problem wit me, u razist beegot?? i to moderatorz reeport u will.
TheFifthSet
Legend
Well not really, IMO. Maybe he's a little worse than expected. However if you win 90-92% of your service games but only win 11-12% of your return games, that's not much of a net gain.
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CountryHillbilly
Banned
Karlovic doesn't have time for errors in tiebreak. During the service games, if he loses a point he can correct himself with a few aces. In a tiebreak, if he loses a point, that's the end of it. The other guy probably will not lose a point on his own serve, and will therefore win the breaker.
If you take average quality of first and second serves, Karlovic is still the best.
If you take average quality of first and second serves, Karlovic is still the best.
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Karlovic is exposed due to his weaker second serve. He's probably got the best first serve, but his second serve is the one serve that gets really exposed. I think Roddick, Guccione, and a plethora of guys have a better second serve.
TheFifthSet
Legend
I agree with you there. Although I would say his first serve is so much better than the rest of the field that (wins 85% of his 1st serve points, next best is 79%) that it compensates quite well for his second serve (which isn't at all bad.)
drakulie
Talk Tennis Guru
Top 10 he has played this year.
Federer three times, Davydenko, Roddick twice , Tsonga, Verdasco. That's it. 8 matches the whole year.
Fed at Indian wells broke him once.
Davydenko at Monte Carlo broke him 4 times.
Federer at Rome broken him twice.
Federer at Wimbledon broken twice.
Tsonga and Verdaco were unable to break him and lost their matches.
Again, if you start looking closer at matches against the top guys, which he doesn’t play very frequently, his numbers are no where near the same as they are against the rest of the field. They are padded.
Fedfan1234
Rookie
oops my mistake I voted for Federer by accident, Karlovic is clearly most effective.
TheFifthSet
Legend
I agree, he can be quite conservative. His second serve was pretty lethal at Wimby though.
drakulie
Talk Tennis Guru
and yet Federer got a break against him in that match.
TheFifthSet
Legend
Roddick since 2007 has played top 10 players 34 times . . . . he's won 83% of his service games.
Karlovic since 2007 has played top 10 players 23 times . . . . he's won 90.4% of his service games.
Roddick may have played more matches against top players, but Karlovic's edge is pretty huge.
ubermeyer
Hall of Fame
Yes, but Roddick's serve was more effective because Dr. Ivo is a pretty awful returner. If you look at it objectively, though, Karlovic has a better serve. Besides, Roddick has a great baseline game to back up his great serve. Roddick's serve is hugely effective as well, just not as good as Karlovic's - but pretty close.
Karlovic's beaten Tsonga, Federer, and other top 10-ers many times.
ubermeyer
Hall of Fame
Yes, but Karlovic's 1st serve, when compared side-to-side with Federer's or even Roddick's 1st serve, is just a bigger weapon. Federer is able to neutralize that weapon's advantage somewhat because he is a great returner, but still rarely breaks Karlovic.
TheFifthSet
Legend
Federer has broken Karlovic about 10% of the time in their 11 matches.
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ubermeyer
Hall of Fame
It shouldn't be too hard to understand...
Is Federer a better player than Karlovic? Anybody in the world would tell you yes.
But is Federer's 1st serve better than Karlovic's 1st serve? No. In fact, Federer's 2nd serve is not better than Karlovic's 2nd serve. The reason Federer does not get broken very often (although he gets broken more often than Karlovic does), because he has an amazing all-around game to support his service game.
Karlovic holds more than 90% of the time against top 10 players.
Is Federer a better player than Karlovic? Anybody in the world would tell you yes.
But is Federer's 1st serve better than Karlovic's 1st serve? No. In fact, Federer's 2nd serve is not better than Karlovic's 2nd serve. The reason Federer does not get broken very often (although he gets broken more often than Karlovic does), because he has an amazing all-around game to support his service game.
Karlovic holds more than 90% of the time against top 10 players.
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rnrockz1
Guest
Karlovic clearly has a very effective serve- against MOST PLAYERS...
フェデラー
Hall of Fame
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rnrockz1
Guest
No he does- Fed's a great returner..
フェデラー
Hall of Fame
YOur serve is only as good as your game, and his game sucks. has the 3rd most aces ever in a match, but he is the only one in the top 5 that actually won the match.:-?
your point? the one time karlovic beat fed, he never broke him.
