Why did Jo Durie spend so little time in the top ten?

[sandy mayer]

She got to as high as number 5 in the world in 1984. In 83 she reached the French Open and US Open semi finals, got to the Australian Open quarters in 83, and the Wimbledon quarters in 84. She had wins over the likes of Austin, Mandlikova and Shriver. She gave Navratilova a big scare in the Australian Open in 83.

Durie had a big serve, very good volleys, and dangerous ground strokes. She was an attacking player. But her peak was short lived. She spent a few years ranked in the twenties and then spent most of her career ranked 60-100.

What happened? I believe back and knee injuries caused her decline at an early age. This also led to her putting on weight and becoming less mobile.

She had the talent to be top ten for many years.

 

[Gizo]

In addition to her persistent back and knee injury problems (she was often required to lie down on the back seat of cars when travelling to rest her back, including when on the way to and from tournament sites), the death of her father John in late 1984 really shook and affected her.

She was very close to him, and said he was an incredibly supportive, and non-pushy parent, and I believe that he was found at the bottom of a gorge, and had other health issues.

She was certainly very talented, with a nice serve and volley game and forehand, and I thought she her moved well for her height at her pomp, before the injuries increasing took their toll. Her service motion was interesting, and I think she amended it after being sidelined for 8 months in 1980, due to one of many back injuries that she would suffer.

I remember at her last tournament appearance at Wimbledon in 1995, there was outrage that her final match against Novotna was on Court 1 and not on Centre Court. However she specifically requested that, so that she could hug her long-time coach and friend (the players’ box was at court level on Court 1 unlike on Centre Court) Alan Jones (who passed away 3 weeks ago) afterwards.

 

[PDJ]

In addition to her persistent back and knee injury problems (she was often required to lie down on the back seat of cars when travelling to rest her back, including when on the way to and from tournament sites), the death of her father John in late 1984 really shook and affected her.

She was very close to him, and said he was an incredibly supportive, and non-pushy parent, and I believe that he was found at the bottom of a gorge, and had other health issues.

She was certainly very talented, with a nice serve and volley game and forehand, and I thought she her moved well for her height at her pomp, before the injuries increasing took their toll. Her service motion was interesting, and I think she amended it after being sidelined for 8 months in 1980, due one of many back injuries that she would suffer.

I remember at her last tournament appearance at Wimbledon in 1995, there was outrage that her final match against Novotna was on Court 1 and not on Centre Court. However she specifically requested that, so that she could hug her long-time coach and friend (the players’ box was at court level on Court 1 unlike on Centre Court) Alan Jones (who passed away 3 weeks ago) afterwards.

I remember Durie's last Wimbledon as if it were yesterday: Novotna graciously left the court so Durie could have the standing ovation to herself. Very emotional.
Durie is a first rate commentator: a soft, easy delivery with a sense of humour.
Met her once (mutual friend) and she's exactly as you'd imagine, warm and friendly.
PS, she was a great doubles player.

 

[Galvermegs]

I have no idea about her game but her commentary is decent enough by british standards. But with bradnam in the mix on eurosport she still wasnt that great to listen to
I dont like most commentators though.. a very hard job to do well over time.

 

[Grafil Injection]

In addition, Durie certainly suffered from nerves at key points. Despite having a quality S&V game and capacious natural talent, you could see she would get stressed often.

 

[boredone3456]

Not only did she had knee and back problems, which have been mentioned, she also had a heart condition which was diagnosed early in her career, but for which she didn't take the prescribed medication because of the side effects and how it made her feel. She had to have heart surgery to correct the issue shortly after her official retirement. Between her health, the death of her father, and what I am guessing was a lot of pressure from the British Press as she was the British #1 player for a lot of career, she had a lot to contend with...and that not even considering the competition.

 

[martinezownsclay]

It is very surprising to me when I see her play on tape. I think everyone can agree the overall depth in womens tennis the period of 83-87, possibly even 82-88, was complete and utter garbage, So seeing the skillfullness of her game with excellent volleys, a big first serve, seemingly a good tactical mind, reasonable athleticsm, and even reasonably strong groundstrokes, you would think in that really weak field, she would be in the top 10, even if only the bottom part of it, for quite a few years. Maybe it was injuries and nerves.

 

[Galvermegs]

In addition, Durie certainly suffered from nerves at key points. Despite having a quality S&V game and capacious natural talent, you could see she would get stressed often.

Novotna made multiple.slam finals and possibly choked the 1997 final at wimbledon in addition to 1993
But still making slam finals is a feat in its own right.

Henman is probably unfairly criticised by the press at the time for not making finals more often.. he was not really a heavyweight on grass

Its debatable with certain players hiw much it is nerves and how much expectations (including their own) are actually a bit too high.

 

[martinezownsclay]

Even Novotna and Henman were only really contenders for a slam at Wimbedon. The only non Wimbledon I think Jana could have even potentially won was the 91 Australian where she beat Garrison, Graf, Sanchez to make the final and got to 7-5, 3-3 up in the final vs Seles before she fell apart badly, having something like 30 unforced errors in the final 10 games of the match alone, but some of that was she had a significant leg injury she was already carrying, and that combined with all the tennis she played that event (including doubles) she hit a wall pretty much. After that I can't think of another one ever, even if she didn't choke in the 98 US Open semis vs Hingis, she almost for sure loses to Davenport who she has a 0-6 record against in the finals. Granted she had more than 1 chance at winning Wimbledon, but some act like she was a big contender at all the slams, but for her nerves, which is not true at all. She was only a bit contender to win at hard court slams in her very best years, and not a contender ever to win the French. Yes I know she made 2 semis at the French, and even had some good wins there like Sabatini and Seles, but lets be real, even the 2 years she made the semis everyone knew there wasn't even a prayer she was winning the title either time. As for Henman, unlike Novotna who I could have "maybe" seen winning 1 hard court slam at some point if she got lucky, he definitely only had a chance at Wimbledon, that is the only place he was even a real contender to win. And even there he would have done really well to somehow win 1 in the era he played in, he was one of the contenders but definitely wasn't one of the frontrunners there like Jana was on the womens side (considering she is a better grass player than all of Sanchez, Seles, Martinez, even probably Hingis and Davenport up until 99, and only clearly behind Graf in that era, but there were many guys generally above Henman in chances, even on grass).

 

[PDJ]

I suspect that Durie was probably too nice a person to have the steel and absolute ego that makes a champion.
It's not been mentioned but she had an exceptional junior record. I think only she and Sue Barker won national titles on all surfaces.

 

[Gizo]

I echo the comments that she has been an excellent, and well-informed commentator over the years.

She put in a very good showing against a peak Navratilova at Eastbourne in 1982.

During the Australian grass court swing in 1983, she lost an epic SF against Brisbane, won the title at Sydney without dropping a set, reached the quarter-finals at Kooyong where she faced Navratilova, won the 1st set before play was suspended due to rain, and then the next day was leading 3-1 in the final set before Navratilova fought back. She won 17 consecutive sets during that swing, but that defeat seemed like a bitter pill to swallow.

Her mixed doubles title at Wimbledon in 1987 with Bates was of course great to see. On championship point, Bates served to Cahill, who blasted his return at her, with getting her racket on it and sending it over the net for a winner.

Even when well past her best and when increasingly struggling with injuries and chronic pain, she had some impressive wins over Sukova at the USO in 1991, and the 9th seed Huber at RG in 1992 (seemingly not getting down-hearted after relinquishing a 5-2 lead with a match point in that 2nd set).

 

[Mainad]

Henman is probably unfairly criticised by the press at the time for not making finals more often.. he was not really a heavyweight on grass.

Grass was a natural surface for his game (although almost all his titles came on hardcourts) yet, strangely, he never won a title on grass!

 

[sandy mayer]

Grass was a natural surface for his game (although almost all his titles came on hardcourts) yet, strangely, he never won a title on grass!

There weren't many grass court tournaments for Henman to win.

 

[Galvermegs]

There weren't many grass court tournaments for Henman to win.

He didnt bother with the hall of fame event iirc.

 

[Mainad]

There weren't many grass court tournaments for Henman to win.

Well, there were Wimbledon, Queen's and Nottingham in the UK alone. He made 3 finals at Queen's (1999 lost to Sampras, 2001-2, lost both times to Hewitt). No finals at any of the others.

 

[PDJ]

Durie contested 3 singles finals on grass, winning one, losing two. That said she lost to two greats: Andrea Jaeger at her peak, and ASV.

From Wikipedia:
1. Jun 1980- Beckenham, UK Grass Andrea Jaeger 4–6, 1–6
2. Feb 1982- Greenville, U.S. Hard Cláudia Monteiro 4–6, 6–3, 4–6
3. WIN Aug 1983- Mahwah, U.S. Hard Hana Mandlíková 2–6, 7–5, 6–4
4. Oct 1983- Brighton, UK Carpet Chris Evert-Lloyd 1–6, 1–6
5. WIN Nov 1983- Sydney, Australia Grass Kathy Jordan 6–3, 7–5
6. Jul 1990 Newport, U.S. Arantxa Sánchez Vicario 6–7(2–7), 6–4, 5–7

And as mentioned previously, she does have a Wimbledon title on grass.

 

[sandy mayer]

Well, there were Wimbledon, Queen's and Eastbourne in the UK alone. He made 3 finals at Queen's (1999 lost to Sampras, 2001-2, lost both times to Hewitt). No finals at any of the others.

Henman never played Eastbourne. It became a men's event after his retirement. Most of his career at the top the only grass court tournaments he played were Queen's and Wimbledon. He occasionally played Nottingham. If he had played as many grass court tournaments as he played hard court, he would have surely won grass court titles.

 

[Mainad]

Henman never played Eastbourne. It became a men's event after his retirement. Most of his career at the top the only grass court tournaments he played were Queen's and Wimbledon. He occasionally played Nottingham. If he had played as many grass court tournaments as he played hard court, he would have surely won grass court titles.

Yes, sorry should have specified Nottingham instead of Eastbourne which was a WTA event only until 2009. Nonetheless he never even made a final at Nottingham despite playing there. His fellow Brit (albeit imported) Rusedski won 2 titles there. I feel Henman could have done the same or won at least 1 if not more.

 

[Galvermegs]

Yes, sorry should have specified Nottingham instead of Eastbourne which was a WTA event only until 2009. Nonetheless he never even made a final at Nottingham despite playing there. His fellow Brit (albeit imported) Rusedski won 2 titles there. I feel Henman could have done the same or won at least 1 if not more.

It does beg the question if henman was good at certain events more than others. And if closer to london in this case. Queens obviously has all that history to motivate a player like henman. Greg had that great semifinal with goran in 1997 but managed to lose despite being arguably better most of the time. Sadly not the first or last time for him on a match court.

Do we really have to single out rusedski as imported? Lots of players are playing for a different country or permanently based elsewhere.
The Kazakh players and US players of russian background do not seem to stick out. Wozniacki may have those blonde locks but is no Scandinavian really. (She has the solidarity with radwanska and kerber despite all flying 3 different flags).

I know rusedski had that glaring accent compared to tim and he overdid things with the bandanas.. but just because crowd support was reserved doesnt mean the average casual fan i knew didnt appreciate all he did for the sport.

The rivalry with henman was a good one too.
I preferred peak form rusedski to watch than henman. When he was on he looked truly top 3 or 4 level
With henman there was always room for doubt he could miss or get overpowered.

 

[Grafil Injection]

It does beg the question if henman was good at certain events more than others. And if closer to london in this case. Queens obviously has all that history to motivate a player like henman. Greg had that great semifinal with goran in 1997 but managed to lose despite being arguably better most of the time. Sadly not the first or last time for him on a match court.

Do we really have to single out rusedski as imported? Lots of players are playing for a different country or permanently based elsewhere.
The Kazakh players and US players of russian background do not seem to stick out. Wozniacki may have those blonde locks but is no Scandinavian really. (She has the solidarity with radwanska and kerber despite all flying 3 different flags).

I know rusedski had that glaring accent compared to tim and he overdid things with the bandanas.. but just because crowd support was reserved doesnt mean the average casual fan i knew didnt appreciate all he did for the sport.

The rivalry with henman was a good one too.
I preferred peak form rusedski to watch than henman. When he was on he looked truly top 3 or 4 level
With henman there was always room for doubt he could miss or get overpowered.

The problem with Rusedski with the public, not that I have an issue, was that he decided to be a Brit just when Henman was establishing himself as the No.1. It's fine if you transfer when you're 10 years old or something, but Henman had been working his way up the British system and paying his dues to the LTA, when up pops a Canadian and says he wants to take over. At least that's what I remember.

Another couple of Durie issues come to mind. She signed with Fischer in 1982, then Spin rackets in the late 80s. Not bad rackets, but surely not the best at that time of rapidly changing tech. Had she signed with Dunlop, Wilson, Prince or Yonex she may have had a little more help. And her separate arms serving technique, does it give the opponent more time to read perhaps?

 

[Galvermegs]

The problem with Rusedski with the public, not that I have an issue, was that he decided to be a Brit just when Henman was establishing himself as the No.1. It's fine if you transfer when you're 10 years old or something, but Henman had been working his way up the British system and paying his dues to the LTA, when up pops a Canadian and says he wants to take over. At least that's what I remember.

Another couple of Durie issues come to mind. She signed with Fischer in 1982, then Spin rackets in the late 80s. Not bad rackets, but surely not the best at that time of rapidly changing tech. Had she signed with Dunlop, Wilson, Prince or Yonex she may have had a little more help. And her separate arms serving technique, does it give the opponent more time to read perhaps?

Cant comment on the actual thread.topic this time as i am no technical person..

Greg i am pretty sure had some british blood and his partner was english (more my cup of tea than lucy henman for what its worth).
I dont really care for henman paying his dues or anything.. he had plenty of help from wimbledon compared to any other british player.. was practically his own club to treat as. He now is very involved in wildcard decisions etc etc.
Greg appeals more to me given my persona and roots.. a mixed background and shunned perhaps more for trying to fit in just enough. He did have a very dodgy return of serve and topspin backhand. But his grand slam finals outnumber tim's.

 

[BTURNER]

I echo the comments that she has been an excellent, and well-informed commentator over the years.

She put in a very good showing against a peak Navratilova at Eastbourne in 1982.

During the Australian grass court swing in 1983, she lost an epic SF against Brisbane, won the title at Sydney without dropping a set, reached the quarter-finals at Kooyong where she faced Navratilova, won the 1st set before play was suspended due to rain, and then the next day was leading 3-1 in the final set before Navratilova fought back. She won 17 consecutive sets during that swing, but that defeat seemed like a bitter pill to swallow.

Her mixed doubles title at Wimbledon in 1987 with Bates was of course great to see. On championship point, Bates served to Cahill, who blasted his return at her, with getting her racket on it and sending it over the net for a winner.

Even when well past her best and when increasingly struggling with injuries and chronic pain, she had some impressive wins over Sukova at the USO in 1991, and the 9th seed Huber at RG in 1992 (seemingly not getting down-hearted after relinquishing a 5-2 lead with a match point in that 2nd set).

Well Chris had no problems with her. In 9 meetings she never lost a set. Out of the 18 sets that they played, Durie won three games or more in only 7 of them. Jo simply did not have the weapons to bully Chris and gain a winning net position.

 

[PDJ]

Well Chris had no problems with her. In 9 meetings she never lost a set. Out of the 18 sets that they played, Durie won three games or more in only 7 of them. Jo simply did not have the weapons to bully Chris and gain a winning net position.

Durie, interviewed long after she retired said that Chris Evert was her toughest opponent, never gave an inch and her mental capacity will never be surpassed. Both Durr and Ruzici have said similar.

 

[Gizo]

Evert and Durie were a very curious and interesting doubles pairing at Wimbledon in 1985.

That was when Evert liked to play doubles with local players, having played alongside Pascale Paradis at RG a couple of weeks earlier, joining forces with Turnbull at the Australian Open both previously and in 1988, to get the home crowd on side !

 

[Galvermegs]

Durie, interviewed long after she retired said that Chris Evert was her toughest opponent, never gave an inch and her mental capacity will never be surpassed. Both Durr and Ruzici have said similar.

Just the one grand slam meeting with navratilova.. regardless it was a clean sweep
So long as each match ended in a win she cant say that evert was the only one to dominate her. But obviously from commentary it felt like she singled the baseliner wunderkind out.

 

[BTURNER]

Just the one grand slam meeting with navratilova.. regardless it was a clean sweep
So long as each match ended in a win she cant say that evert was the only one to dominate her. But obviouh from commentary it felt like she singled the baseliner wunderkind out.

Its about the match-up. Its sort of an extension of a pattern among several serve volleyers that played them both in their mutual prime. Shriver, Sukova, Kohd-Kilsch all got more sets and and that first victory from Martina, but had to wait a couple of years to take one from Evert. Martina did better holding off challengers when her opponent stayed on the baseline, and Evert did better when her opponent gave her a consistent target for her passes. Obviously this did not hold true for players like King, Court and Goolagong who first played Chris when she 15, 16 and 17.

 

[Galvermegs]

Its about the match-up. Its sort of an extension of a pattern among several serve volleyers that played them both in their mutual prime. Shriver, Sukova, Kohd-Kilsch all got more sets and and that first victory from Martina, but had to wait a couple of years to take one from Evert. Martina did better holding off challengers when her opponent stayed on the baseline, and Evert did better when her opponent gave her a consistent target for her passes. Obviously this did not hold true for players like King, Court and Goolagong who first played Chris when she 15, 16 and 17.

Guess she meant the worst match up but she surely felt martina was the hot favourite for wimbledon most years if she worried about the outcome at the most important event for her and fellow brits.

 

[PDJ]

Guess she meant the worst match up but she surely felt martina was the hot favourite for wimbledon most years if she worried about the outcome at the most important event for her and fellow brits.

Durie literally talked about her most difficult opponent. Maybe you know better . .

 

[Galvermegs]

Durie literally talked about her most difficult opponent. Maybe you know better . .

I dont know what she meant exactly but it came across as saying others she always felt she could have beaten if the margins went her way. But evert would have plenty to say about the other greats she faced.. they each impacted one another on some level. Durie had to pick the one who drubbed her the most i guess. It wasnt the most interesting commentary either.. i felt she could have elaborated more.

I have already said i am lukewarm about her as a commentator, but she was a good player for some years till we have had konta and of course radecanu to take the focus away from pre 90s players. Robson could have got results like durie but her health was even worse.

 

[Galvermegs]

Durie literally talked about her most difficult opponent. Maybe you know better . .

Obviously if you liked her before from tv work and liked her in person then that is not an issue. But i dont always find someone likable to be what i need as a viewer. Not sure fleming, mcenroe, frew mcmillan, tracey austin, mark petchey (earlier tv work more) are quite my sort of people but they are very informative and have given me plenty of insights.

Sue barker was a good anchor for the bbc for many years and is pleasantly laid back but even after 10 years i kid of found the format needed a shake up.. right now its different but still fsr from ideal. Tried sues book in the library. Was simply too mellow to be a good read. Connors and agassi had me by page 5 however. Go figure

 

[Otacon]

She got to as high as number 5 in the world in 1984. In 83 she reached the French Open and US Open semi finals, got to the Australian Open quarters in 83, and the Wimbledon quarters in 84. She had wins over the likes of Austin, Mandlikova and Shriver. She gave Navratilova a big scare in the Australian Open in 83.

Durie had a big serve, very good volleys, and dangerous ground strokes. She was an attacking player. But her peak was short lived. She spent a few years ranked in the twenties and then spent most of her career ranked 60-100.

What happened? I believe back and knee injuries caused her decline at an early age. This also led to her putting on weight and becoming less mobile.

She had the talent to be top ten for many years.

One reason was the strong competition during her era, with players like Navratilova, Evert, and Graf dominating the sport. Additionally, Durie indeed faced injuries at various points in her career.

 

[Gizo]

In terms of Durie's commentary, I thought she was a natural fit with her charisma. She was often very positive when commentating on matches, and looked to see the best in the players involved. Plus her voice came across as very 'soothing'.

 

[Galvermegs]

In terms of Durie's commentary, I thought she was a natural fit with her charisma. She was often very positive when commentating on matches, and looked to see the best in the players involved. Plus her voice came across as very 'soothing'.

She is generally positive but could sound fed up like any one on a given day. Was critical about both players forms in a yec match... even though that was the eventual champion clearly in solid form.