Wimbledon forced to defend “dangerous” courts

[Cupcake]

To those saying the courts are going to dry out, here's the weather forecast from Wimbledon.com Good luck everybody.

Friday:
Afternoon showers. Highs 22 to 24°C and lows 14 to 16°C.

Saturday:
Light rain. Highs 20 to 22°C and lows 13 to 15°C.

Sunday:
Rain and thunder. Highs 18 to 20°C and lows 12 to 14°C.

Monday:
Light rain. Highs 18 to 20°C and lows 13 to 15°C.

Tuesday:
Showers. Highs 17 to 19°C and lows 13 to 15°C.

 

[Dan Lobb]

Wimbledon have released a statement after numerous players have complained about the grass courts by saying the following:

AELTC STATEMENT ON CONDITION OF COURTS

The preparation of the grass courts has been to exactly the same meticulous standard as in previous years. Each grass court is checked by the Grand Slam Supervisors, Referee's Office and Grounds team ahead of play commencing, and on both days of the Fortnight they have been happy with the conditions and cleared the courts for play.

The weather conditions on the opening two days have been the wettest we have experienced in almost a decade, which has required the roof to be closed on Centre Court and No.1 Court for long periods. This is at a time when the grass plant is at its most lush and green, which does result in additional moisture on what is a natural surface.

With each match that is played, the courts will continue to firm up.

The Grounds team and Sports Turf Research Institute (STRI) take hardness readings every morning in order to ensure that the courts have the right level of moisture and are playing consistently.

Our long-serving ground staff team have experienced nearly every combination of weather conditions possible. They keep abreast of and utilise the latest grass court technologies, prepare for every weather eventuality and react to the current conditions on a daily basis.

We will continue to monitor these readings and adjust our care plan for the grass appropriately.

Numerous players have injured themselves including Mannarino who slipped and then retired with injury, Serena who slipped and then retired with injury, Kyrgios has slipped but not complained about the dangers other than the courts being slow , Djokovic has slipped numerous times but got back up and Murray in tonight’s match has fell and said it was dangerously slippy.
Federer has defended the AELTC saying the courts are slippery but don’t really play any differently to what they normally do and almost hints that it’s down to poor footwork that players are falling s playe4s are moving around too heavily

The current crop of tennis players do not get very much opportunity to play on grass. It is actually the safest surface of all, with a spongy cushioned under-layer which reduces leg and knee injuries.
The slipping around we see now was unheard of in previous generations of tennis players accustomed to grass.

 

[tonylg]

So you are saying that the courts are both suitable and unsuitable for grass court tennis.

Actually, yes. There is no safety issue, but there is an issue with the pace and bounce.

More seriously, if racing car drivers have different levels of grip on their tires, then why not two levels of grip for players' shoes depending on how wet the grass is?

A better analogy would be to take a Formula 1 car out on a forest rally stage, drive it flat out and complain when it gets broken.

 

[tonylg]

If Hurkacz does this at the USO or AO and gets injured, should they change the courts?

What if he does it at the FO and gets red sh1t all over him?

Oh, that's right .. you use the technique appropriate to the court you are on *

* Unless you're a baseline botting hard/clay court specialist, then everything must be changed to suit you

 

[Cupcake]

""The slipping around we see now was unheard of in previous generations of tennis players accustomed to grass.""

Yes, older generations were more used to playing on grass, and there were far more grass courts and events to practice on. But take a look at old videos of them. They were far slower moving and less agile and athletic than today's players. It's a different game now with better equipment and far greater skills. The players have changed. The grass? Some, but not that much.

 

[tonylg]

It's a different game now with better equipment and far greater skills.

All you have to do is watch a few matches to see some of the pathetic grass court skills on display.

Poor movement techniques are just part of it.

 

[beltsman]

Pathetic whining from the players. This is grass. Learn to move on grass. Nadal, the ultimate clay courter, learned just fine. All these hardcourt spoiled brats.

 

[beltsman]

All you have to do is watch a few matches to see some of the pathetic grass court skills on display.

Poor movement techniques are just part of it.

They don't know how to take small steps anymore. Just giant strides and open stance strokes. It's pathetic.

 

[Bartelby]

It's also pathetic whining from Wimbledon. And rather pathetic blame-shifting. The advice is simply that things will get less slippery if the weather improves.

 

[tonylg]

Pathetic whining from the players. This is grass. Learn to move on grass. Nadal, the ultimate clay courter, learned just fine. All these hardcourt spoiled brats.

Are the players actually whinging though?

The word "dangerous" was inserted into the title of the thread, but no player has used that word. Someone else said Federer had complained, when in fact he said it was quite normal and players needed to be careful and play to the conditions.

I think really it's mostly uneducated ignorant media and fans.

 

[Bartelby]

Open stance strokes is contemporary tennis. That's what is currently taught to everyone as the preferred stroke. So how is it pathetic?

They don't know how to take small steps anymore. Just giant strides and open stance strokes. It's pathetic.

 

[tonylg]

They don't know how to take small steps anymore. Just giant strides and open stance strokes. It's pathetic.

It's partially Wimbledon's fault for making the bounce like a hard court, now the baseline bots think they can use clumsy hard court movements too.

 

[Bartelby]

When I watched the first day's play my immediate reaction was that players were moving very gingerly.

And the fact is that Wimbledon has essentially admitted that the grass is wetter than what it might have been due to the weather.

Turf these days is a science as much as an art. And I'm pretty sure they can measure the likelihood of the court being more slippery through various tests.

 

[beard]

The issue is that almost every player is a hard/clay court specialist and fans think they can take that exact style of play to fresh grass, rather than adapt their movement to suit the surface.

In a few days the conditions will dry out and it'll be back to playing like green hard court. I guess that will make the people who discovered tennis in the past 10 years happy?

Why every yours post is so salty?
Be careful it's not healthy...

 

[tonylg]

Tennis legend Todd Woodbridge has dismissed complaints about the slippery nature of the courts at Wimbledon as nothing more than a "beat up".

The All-England Club was forced to defend the playing surface, especially centre court and court No.1, after players complained there wasn't enough grip.

Serena Williams retired in tears from her match after falling and hurting her left leg, while Roger Federer moved through to the second round when his opponent retired after a fall.

"It feels a tad more slippery, maybe, under the roof. I don't know if it's just a gut feeling. You do have to move very, very carefully out there. If you push too hard in the wrong moments, you do go down," Federer said.

Former champion Andy Murray tweeted that "centre court is extremely slippy" while Novak Djokovic and Jack Draper both lost their footing a number of times in their match on day one.

Woodbridge, who won 10 of his 22 grand slam titles on grass, says players need to adapt to the circumstances.

"They're grass courts, they're greasy, they've had damp weather, and that's everything that grass court tennis is about. You have to learn to move on it," he told Wide World of Sports.

"Yes, you're going to slip over and you have to expect that. It's been like that for 150 years.

"We have better technology in the shoes and better technology in the grass. Making some beat up that it's a major problem is a waste of time."

Woodbridge explained that the cancellation of the 2020 tournament is "totally irrelevant" to the conditions facing the players this week.

The centre court and No.1 court are reseeded every year, making for a brand new surface for each tournament.

Centre court is 'broken in' in the lead-up to the tournament with a doubles match between members, but apart from that, the surface is pristine when the defending men's champion opens proceedings.

Woodbridge is speaking from experience, having played Pat Cash in the first match on centre court at the 1988 tournament.

"It happens every year when someone slips over. You have to adjust, particularly on the centre court. I've played an opening match on there. You just have to be prepared," he said.

"The reality is, had it been 28 degrees on the weekend and hard sunshine, the courts would have changed very quickly.

"Instead, we've had grey skies. The weather plays a big part in it."

Noting that players needed to adapt to the variable conditions presented by grass, Woodbridge relayed a story from 2004, when he slipped in the final of the mixed doubles, with huge consequences for himself and playing partner Alicia Molik.

"We were playing Wayne and Cara Black, I slipped on match point and it cost Alicia and me a Wimbledon title," he said.

"I was serving in the second set tie-breaker, went down the tee, Cara got her racquet on it and blocked it back, I would have got it if I hadn't slipped, but I did.

"That's a moment in time that I remember clearly.

"Grass court tennis is about having the ability to make adjustments."

Australia's Nick Kyrgios also took issue with the state of court No.1, but for a different reason.

Kyrgios, whose match against Ugo Humbert was suspended at 3-3 in the fifth set, wasn't happy that the court was slower than he expected.

"For those of you guys at home right now, this should be fast. It's grass court tennis," he said. "This is slow. It's slow.

"It's turf, it should be fast. They made it slow. It's not turf anymore, it's a joke.

"This isn't grass anymore, start watering it, make it a grass court again please."

According to Woodbridge, there's been a marked shift in the preparation of grass courts in recent years.

"The courts are playing more like a hard court in terms of bounce and speed," he said.

"Grass has never necessarily been quicker, but it has been lower, in terms of the bounce.

"I'd like to see Wimbledon go back to a more natural bouncing grass court. I think we've gone from having no rallies to the total opposite.

"It would be great to find the middle ground to keep the contrast of what grass court tennis is about."

Legend hits out at Wimbledon's 'major problem'

'Waste of time'

wwos.nine.com.au

 

[Subway Tennis]

The condensed version of the AELTC statement: "We ain't did nuffin' wrong! Don't look at us!"

 

[Bartelby]

Todd Woodbridge is usually an uncritical defender of the establishment, and he is so here yet again.

His desire for a lower bouncing court is also a criticism of Wimbledon, however, but he buried it.

Players are far taller these days, and play with an open stance, so the prepping of grass has to adapt.

The courts should not be as slippery as they are, so they did not make enough allowance for inclement weather.

 

[tonylg]

Todd Woodbridge is usually an uncritical defender of the establishment, and he is so here yet again.

His desire for a lower bouncing court is also a criticism of Wimbledon, however, but he buried it.

The courts are playing more like a hard court in terms of bounce and speed.

Grass has never necessarily been quicker, but it has been lower, in terms of the bounce.

I'd like to see Wimbledon go back to a more natural bouncing grass court. I think we've gone from having no rallies to the total opposite.

It would be great to find the middle ground to keep the contrast of what grass court tennis is about.


That's pretty clear. He said the courts are playing more like hard courts in terms of bounce and speed and that he'd like to see Wimbledon go back to a more natural bouncing grass court. Not buried at all, despite your wishful false statement.

I should know better than to look at ignored content and then respond to it.

 

[tonylg]

@Bartelby , how much grass court tennis have you actually played?

 

[Bartelby]

The reality is that your position is incoherent. You blame players for the slippery grass, but then tell us that you can't play grass-court tennis on Wimbledon grass.

@Bartelby , how much grass court tennis have you actually played?

 

[Bartelby]

I got Woodbridge's remarks correct. He buried his criticism by foregrounding his defence of the courts against those who say they are slippery. He 'dismissed complaints'.

That's pretty clear. He said the courts are playing more like hard courts in terms of bounce and speed and that he'd like to see Wimbledon go back to a more natural bouncing grass court. Not buried at all, despite your wishful false statement.

 

[tonylg]

The reality is that your position is incoherent. You blame players for the slippery grass, but then tell us that you can't play grass-court tennis on Wimbledon grass.

I'll type this slowly, so you can keep up.

1. Players falling over
Grass is a natural surface and the grass itself contains moisture. Over the past 24 hours it has been explained multiple times on these forums how weather and usage change this. You believe Wimbledon should change the courts for players who don't know how or refuse to move in a way appropriate for grass. I think the players should play to the conditions, as they have for 150 years.

2. Bounce of the ball
The way the ball bounces has changed, both because of the court surface and the balls themselves. It now bounces much higher, which suits players who don't have the skills to approach the net and would rather just play points from the baseline. This describes your hero, so you support this. We also do not agree on this as I enjoy all court tennis. How we truly differ is that I don't believe courts that don't cater for my preferred style of play should be changed so that they do.

1 and 2 are complete separate issues. You conflate them to accuse my position of being incoherent, even though you clearly know they are separate.

It's clever, but quite dishonest.

 

[tonylg]

I got Woodbridge's remarks correct. He buried his criticism by foregrounding his defence of the courts against those who say they are slippery. He 'dismissed complaints'.

Here are his words, completely unaltered:

The courts are playing more like a hard court in terms of bounce and speed.

Grass has never necessarily been quicker, but it has been lower, in terms of the bounce.

I'd like to see Wimbledon go back to a more natural bouncing grass court. I think we've gone from having no rallies to the total opposite.

It would be great to find the middle ground to keep the contrast of what grass court tennis is about.


I invite anyone who believes he is clearly saying he'd like to see Wimbledon go back to a more natural bouncing (ie low bouncing) grass court to Like my post.

 

[tonylg]

So @Bartelby , how much grass court tennis have you actually played?

 

[tennis tom]

@Bartelby , how much grass court tennis have you actually played?

 

[aldeayeah]

That's actually an excellent example of terrible footwork.

Beautiful falling though - love the racquet toss.

 

[Bartelby]

'Players falling over' There you go again blaming the players. Wimbledon have admitted that the courts are wetter than they like. They just blame the weather and you blame the players.

I never conflated anything.

The reason why your position is incoherent is because there is no way back to the past. You are wallowing in nostalgia. The courts need to be drier, regardless of bounce, to suit the modern game.

I'll type this slowly, so you can keep up.

1. Players falling over
Grass is a natural surface and the grass itself contains moisture. Over the past 24 hours it has been explained multiple times on these forums how weather and usage change this. You believe Wimbledon should change the courts for players who don't know how or refuse to move in a way appropriate for grass. I think the players should play to the conditions, as they have for 150 years.

2. Bounce of the ball
The way the ball bounces has changed, both because of the court surface and the balls themselves. It now bounces much higher, which suits players who don't have the skills to approach the net and would rather just play points from the baseline. This describes your hero, so you support this. We also do not agree on this as I enjoy all court tennis. How we truly differ is that I don't believe courts that don't cater for my preferred style of play should be changed so that they do.

1 and 2 are complete separate issues. You conflate them to accuse my position of being incoherent, even though you clearly know they are separate.

It's clever, but quite dishonest.

 

[Bartelby]

And the words are buried at the end of a long screed, which begins with Woodbridge abusing players for stating the obvious: the courts are too slippery for contemporary tennis.

And you completely altered his words by cutting out from the entirety of his remarks the parts that didn't suit your thesis. People put important things first, and Woodbridge 'dismissed complaints'.

Here are his words, completely unaltered:
...
I invite anyone who believes he is clearly saying he'd like to see Wimbledon go back to a more natural bouncing (ie low bouncing) grass court to Like my post.

 

[tonylg]

I never conflated anything.

You did and I have no doubt you know this.

You argue very cleverly, but not very honestly.

 

[aldeayeah]

Sometimes wimby courts are just extra slippery. 2014 final comes to mind, just how many times did djoko fall down that day? And this was after 2 weeks of tournament.

 

[Bartelby]

Woodbridge called the players' complaints 'a beat up'. And you chose not to quote that part when you disputed my interpretation. You select quotations 'very cleverly, but not very honestly'.

You did and I have no doubt you know this.

You argue very cleverly, but not very honestly.

 

[Visionary]

Get Nike et. al. to attach clamp-ons to the bottom of all shoes. Safety first!

More seriously, if racing car drivers have different levels of grip on their tires, then why not two levels of grip for players' shoes depending on how wet the grass is?

Football players have their shoes with studs that are monitored by the referees and there is a standard for the size of their studs on shoes. To my knowledge, leagues, UEFA and FIFA have stict rules for the sizing of studs and players alternate the use of their shoes depending on the weather and conditions on grass.

Neither the Wimbledon nor the tennis shoes producers have enough to offer on this issue of the London lab grass that is supposed to serve the powers of the tournament solely.

 

[Bartelby]

I vaguely remember an article that argued that Wimbledon's rules on grass court dimples were very restrictive and prioritised the court surface.

Football players have their shoes with studs that are monitored by the referees and there is a standard for the size of their studs on shoes. To my knowledge, leagues, UEFA and FIFA have stict rules for the sizing of studs and players alternate the use of their shoes depending on the weather and conditions on grass.

Neither the Wimbledon nor the tennis shoes producers have enough to offer on this issue of the London lab grass that is supposed to serve the powers of the tournament solely.

 

[tonylg]

@Bartelby , how much grass court tennis have you actually played?

 

[Bartelby]

You asked me that question before and in your next post you said you had me on ignore. That's what the Premier of Queensland would call 'rude'.

You have an old-school nostalgia for fifties and sixties grass court tennis. Wimbledon killed off the grass-court tennis you loved around 2000. You and Todd are wallowing in nostalgia.

@Bartelby , how much grass court tennis have you actually played?

 

[Fedinkum]

Wimbledon organisers - the courts are fine, now play you peasants
players -

The player took the risk to chase that ball. The players have to adjust their game to suit the surface, not the other way around.

 

[Red Rick]

""The slipping around we see now was unheard of in previous generations of tennis players accustomed to grass.""

Yes, older generations were more used to playing on grass, and there were far more grass courts and events to practice on. But take a look at old videos of them. They were far slower moving and less agile and athletic than today's players. It's a different game now with better equipment and far greater skills. The players have changed. The grass? Some, but not that much.

"ehrh players used to know to moveo on grass"

Nah it just used to be you didn't need to run on grass

 

[Bartelby]

That's an interesting remark. Players never used to run in the sense that modern players do.

And the point of serve and volley was also to avoid the bounce. Volleys took the grass out of the equation, so to speak.

"ehrh players used to know to moveo on grass"

Nah it just used to be you didn't need to run on grass

 

[Visionary]

@Bartelby , how much grass court tennis have you actually played?

What does that matter? How does that adress the topic and argument?

 

[Visionary]

The player took the risk to chase that ball. The players have to adjust their game to suit the surface, not the other way around.

Fine! So, for the sake of the argument let's suppose the players are forced to "adjust their game" on ice. Do you think the audiences want to see tennis pros' embarrassing slips/falls/injuries or their best moves that demonstrate how beautiful tennis is?

I really hope now that any injured players from the Wimbledon grass have their insurers file juicy lawsuits against the organizers who will file their lawsuits against the lab grass producers eventually. Let's have the **** hit the fan! But I do not believe we will ever read much about that kinda stuff even if it happens.

 

[Fedinkum]

Fine! So, for the sake of the argument let's suppose the players are forced to "adjust their game" on ice. Do you think the audiences want to see tennis pros' embarrassing slips/falls/injuries or their best moves that demonstrate how beautiful tennis is?

I really hope now that any injured players from the Wimbledon grass have their insurers file juicy lawsuits against the organizers who will file their lawsuits against the lab grass producers eventually. Let's have the **** hit the fan! But I do not believe we will ever read much about that kinda stuff even if it happens.

But we are not playing on ice. We are playing on a surface that had been played for many decades.

 

[phl92]

All crybabies should be disqualified

 

[Bartelby]

No we are not. The grass mix is around twenty years old. And few play serve and volley. Strolling to the ball has given way to running along the baseline. And players are slipping.

But we are not playing on ice. We are playing on a surface that had been played for many decades.

 

[Fedinkum]

No we are not. The grass mix is around twenty years old. And few play serve and volley. Strolling to the ball has given way to running along the baseline. And players are slipping.

Then don't hung around the baseline.

 

[Forehanderer]

@Bartelby , how much grass court tennis have you actually played?

See how he evades answering your question even though you asked him multiple times. He and darcy are more likely to have played diddly squat on ANY surface much less grass. They are just attention seekers looking for topics which they consider to be controversial and post ad nauseam opposed to any reasonable poster and have the thread nuked. I have huge respect for the Aussie players of past but the Aussie fans like Bart and Darcy much less so from these threads. Or perhaps these are the prominent ones that damage the reputation of Australia in this forum.

 

[Bartelby]

It's not a question. It's an ad hominem attack. I don't respond to such provocations.

See how he evades answering your question even though you asked him multiple times. He and darcy are more likely to have played diddly squat on ANY surface much less grass. They are just attention seekers looking for topics which they consider to be controversial and post ad nauseam opposed to any reasonable poster and have the thread nuked. I have huge respect for the Aussie players of past but the Aussie fans like Bart and Darcy much less so from these threads. Or perhaps these are the prominent ones that damage the reputation of Australia in this forum.

 

[MrFlip]

Nadal almost did a Mannarino in the 08' final. If anyone around here remembers...

People complaining need to get a grip.

 

[Bartelby]

Hopefully this is not a Freudian slip.

Then don't hung around the baseline.

 

[Visionary]

But we are not playing on ice. We are playing on a surface that had been played for many decades.

Reply, please! Do you think the audiences want to see tennis pros' embarrassing slips/falls/injuries or their best moves that demonstrate how beautiful tennis is?

 

[Forehanderer]

Fine! So, for the sake of the argument let's suppose the players are forced to "adjust their game" on ice. Do you think the audiences want to see tennis pros' embarrassing slips/falls/injuries or their best moves that demonstrate how beautiful tennis is?

I really hope now that any injured players from the Wimbledon grass have their insurers file juicy lawsuits against the organizers who will file their lawsuits against the lab grass producers eventually. Let's have the **** hit the fan! But I do not believe we will ever read much about that kinda stuff even if it happens.

The surface has been approved by authorities as mentioned in the article. So wimbledon has no liabilities. If players find it not suitable for their game, they can skip the tournament rather than play with their HC/Clay technique. Your point about insurance and the topic of playing on ice is irrelevant.