Bartelby
Bionic Poster
Since when did Peng become a dissident? There is no evidence that she is such. It is an identity imposed on her by outsiders.
WTA suspends all tournaments in China due to ongoing blackmail of Peng Shuai
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Kralingen
Talk Tennis Guru
When she accused a high ranking government member of unbecoming sexual assault in a public forum, by proxy she became a dissident. And I’m not saying she did this, I’m saying the Chinese government viewed her as such, given their coordinated and immediate response.
Bartelby
Bionic Poster
This is correct. It is a move designed to cost the WTA nothing while grandstanding as much as possible. They are going to lose financially, however, if they keep this up.
Bartelby
Bionic Poster
If you make a defamatory post anywhere in the world it will be taken down. The world is full of people making much-regretted late night tweets and posts. They are not dissidents.
Azure
G.O.A.T.
How? Just curious. As I understand, not many takers in China for the WTA, no tournaments are anyway going to happen in the near future either.
Bartelby
Bionic Poster
The contracts were signed and are still on foot. The WTA has not torn them up so they think they are financially advantageous.
Kralingen
Talk Tennis Guru
Alright Bartelby, I was trying to be civil but you’ve crossed the line. A high profile woman reporting her sexual assault by one of the most powerful men in her country, knowing the risks of this, is not a “defamatory post”.
Or, if it is defamatory, you’ve implicitly said that you think Peng Shuai is an absolute fraudulent liar. Who are you to make that judgment call?
What about Peng Shuai makes you think she regrets it or that she was intentionally trying to defame the Chinese government member? You think she was lying?
you’ve gone full boot licking. Let’s follow your logic here. In your eyes, every potentially damaging allegation should be viewed as “defamatory”, no? and all sexual assault allegations would be suitable to be purged, right?
Bartelby
Bionic Poster
There is no line that has been crossed. Peng did not report anything. She made a post with what she admitted were serious allegations that could never be substantiated. That's what makes her statement defamatory.
Kralingen
Talk Tennis Guru
Dude please go talk to any woman on the entire earth and tell them to their face that their sexual assault experience is 'defamatory' because it can't be substantiated. Tell me how that goes. I can't believe you're this cruel and lacking in empathy.
Honestly, you need to go soak your head. WTF is wrong with you
wangs78
Legend
We ASSUME that sexual assault allegations were made, because every single Western news outlet says that. When you read Peng Shuai's original post describing her relationship with the former Politburo guy, it doesn't actually read like an allegation at all. I honestly don't know if it was meant to be an allegation or just an airing of a grievance where a young woman felt taken advantage of by a powerful man who cast her aside after the affair.
We ASSUME Peng Shuai is still under duress and effectively "disappeared" despite seeing her on video in perfectly fine health, because the entire Western press and readers say those videos are completely fake. I'm not saying they are or aren't. But Peng clearly is not under physical duress.
I'm not saying that women's sexual assault allegations shouldn't be investigated, because they should. But the bias that is so clearly apparent here is very dangerous.
An opportunistic PR campaign is being waged here. Opportunistic bc (1) the subject is a young, fairly attractive woman (people tend to sympathize with them, just look at how the press went into overdrive to cover Gabbie Pettito), (2) she is part of a global association (hence this controversy easily had global reach), (3) the WTA basically had nothing to lose because events in China already weren't being held and were never that popular to begin with, and (4) because of the upcoming Winter Olympics in China it will create maximum damage for China from a public perception perspective. Honestly, it's brilliant if you're anti-China.
Bartelby
Bionic Poster
You are making the argumentative error of trying to suggest that I'm making such a crass and stupid generalisation from one case. This is just a fail grade for you, unfortunately.
Tennisfan339
Professional
Every tournaments held in Asia have already been cancelled in 2020 and 2021 (including the WTA Finals in Shenzhen) because of the covid.
What difference will this make? This isn't like they were going to be played in 2022, with or without this...
What difference will this make? This isn't like they were going to be played in 2022, with or without this...
Kralingen
Talk Tennis Guru
Are you joking or just trying to lie to me openly?
"That afternoon I did not agree at first and was crying all the time. Why did you have to come back to me, took me to your home to force me to have sex with you? I couldn’t describe how disgusted I was, and how many times I asked myself am I still a human? I feel like a walking corpse. Every day I was acting, which person is the real me?”
I'm not assuming anything... These are her literal words. Stop gaslighting me lol. I read the post.
You two have actual worms in your brains and I hope everyone else on this forum can see how absurd you sound.
I doubt its a huge loss for China. Everytime I watched an WTA even held in China the stands had about 10 spectators...
Rosstour
G.O.A.T.
Considering that just about everyone here said they would never ever do this bc they would lose money...
Tennisfan339
Professional
Indeed. In 2019 there was only some crowd in the WTA 1000 events (Wuhan and Beijing). The new 500 in Zhengzhou looked like funerals in most matches. The stadium for the final between Pliskova and Martic was 80% empty.
As for the 250s in China, 10 spectators is being generous. I remember watching a QF or SF between Petterson and Golubic... don't remember if it was Nanchang or Tianjin. It was closer to 0 spectator.
Bartelby
Bionic Poster
And the WTA hasn't terminated any contracts. They suspended them. So the WTA is still saying that they'll take the money. Not exactly that heroic given nothing is happening due to covid!
Daniel Andrade
Hall of Fame
good 
NonP
Legend
So we're back to the fallback Cold War/West-versus-East narrative, I see. Our numerous Indian posters are welcome to chime in but last I checked the Times of India was the nation's largest English-language newspaper:
timesofindia.indiatimes.com
Oh but most of these are AFP/Reuters/AP reports, you say? Then how would you dismiss this column?
indianexpress.com
I'm guessing author Shivani Naik is based in India proper. Or is she one of those Western stooges, too?
Also I'm one of the few posters here (in fact the only one AFAIK along with @Bender) who can read at least passable Korean, so I like to peruse the Hankyoreh from time to time because it's probably South Korea's only major non-conservative/reactionary newspaper and I'm interested in what they're saying around the world about the hot topics. Just so you know I'm not talking BS here's the English edition:
The renowned left-wing writer and activist (and frequent Democracy Now! guest) Arundhati Roy graces the cover story, while the title of the top editorial asks "Why does S. Korea keep veering right?" You get the idea.
Now HKR understandably cannot offer most of its original Korean articles in translation, but here's a recent profile of China's prominent #MeToo activist Zhou Xiaoxuan that references the Peng situation:
english.hani.co.kr
And I'm 99% sure Choi Hyun-june is based in SK as I've yet to come across any HKR columnist who resides outside the country (at the end of the article you have the option to read it in original Korean). But sure, we're supposed to think he's another Western dupe.
Or maybe, just maybe, sometimes it takes one individual to put a human face on systematic oppression and Peng has (unwittingly) become the latest cause célèbre.
Speaking of which:
LOL, let's be real. Very few people set out to be "dissidents." Ai Weiwei is a dissident, Peng is not. Nobody expected her online cri de coeur to snowball like this, and while she's likely aware of how volatile the situation has become she probably wouldn't do it again if she had the chance.
Peng Shuai: Latest News, Videos and Photos of Peng Shuai | Times of India
peng shuai News: Latest and Breaking News on peng shuai. Explore peng shuai profile at Times of India for photos, videos and latest news of peng shuai. Also find news, photos and videos on peng shuai
timesofindia.indiatimes.com
Oh but most of these are AFP/Reuters/AP reports, you say? Then how would you dismiss this column?
What IOC’s handling of the Peng Shuai episode reveals
Shivani Naik writes: By not acknowledging the Chinese tennis player’s allegation of sexual assault and allowing itself to be used as an alibi by a repressive regime, the committee has revealed its priorities
indianexpress.com
I'm guessing author Shivani Naik is based in India proper. Or is she one of those Western stooges, too?
Also I'm one of the few posters here (in fact the only one AFAIK along with @Bender) who can read at least passable Korean, so I like to peruse the Hankyoreh from time to time because it's probably South Korea's only major non-conservative/reactionary newspaper and I'm interested in what they're saying around the world about the hot topics. Just so you know I'm not talking BS here's the English edition:
The renowned left-wing writer and activist (and frequent Democracy Now! guest) Arundhati Roy graces the cover story, while the title of the top editorial asks "Why does S. Korea keep veering right?" You get the idea.
Now HKR understandably cannot offer most of its original Korean articles in translation, but here's a recent profile of China's prominent #MeToo activist Zhou Xiaoxuan that references the Peng situation:
[Interview] Icon of Chinese #MeToo movement calls Korean movement a source of strength
Zhou Xiaoxuan’s case against a prominent Chinese TV host was defeated in court in September, but her battle against rampant sexual assault and the systems that enable it in China is far from over
english.hani.co.kr
And I'm 99% sure Choi Hyun-june is based in SK as I've yet to come across any HKR columnist who resides outside the country (at the end of the article you have the option to read it in original Korean). But sure, we're supposed to think he's another Western dupe.
Or maybe, just maybe, sometimes it takes one individual to put a human face on systematic oppression and Peng has (unwittingly) become the latest cause célèbre.
Speaking of which:
LOL, let's be real. Very few people set out to be "dissidents." Ai Weiwei is a dissident, Peng is not. Nobody expected her online cri de coeur to snowball like this, and while she's likely aware of how volatile the situation has become she probably wouldn't do it again if she had the chance.
Bartelby
Bionic Poster
Peng was told not to tell the mother of the man against whom she made an allegation, and with whom she was in a long-term sexual relationship with, ...
of any sexual relationship while the mother was driving Peng to the Church of the Saviour!!!
of any sexual relationship while the mother was driving Peng to the Church of the Saviour!!!
Thats not the translation from the original post, thats likely the media paraphrasing their own version . Look at the translation in the post above.
She said he wanted to have sex with her, she was reluctant but she agreed because of their relationship from 7 years ago.
Bartelby
Bionic Poster
We're up to the point where it's a question of whether this is an accurate translation. So would any Chinese speakers care to offer an opinion?:
That afternoon I didn't agree, and I kept crying. I had dinner with you and auntie Kang Jie together. You said the universe is very very big. The earth is merely a speck of sand in the universe , and us human beings are smaller than even a speck of sand. You said a lot more than that, and the purpose was basically to persuade me to drop my guard. After dinner, I was still not willing to have sex. You said you hated me. You said in those seven years, you never forgot about me, and you will treat me well etc... I was terrified and anxious. Taking into consideration the affection I had for you seven years ago, I agreed... yes, we had sex.
That afternoon I didn't agree, and I kept crying. I had dinner with you and auntie Kang Jie together. You said the universe is very very big. The earth is merely a speck of sand in the universe , and us human beings are smaller than even a speck of sand. You said a lot more than that, and the purpose was basically to persuade me to drop my guard. After dinner, I was still not willing to have sex. You said you hated me. You said in those seven years, you never forgot about me, and you will treat me well etc... I was terrified and anxious. Taking into consideration the affection I had for you seven years ago, I agreed... yes, we had sex.
wangs78
Legend
No one's trying to lie to you, Kralingen. From the facts, I'm simply not drawing the same conclusion as you. What's the source of those words you pasted? I took a look at the full translation of Peng's original post at
"https://www.reddit.com/r/tennis/comments/qmn69a/full_translation_of_peng_shuais_weibo_post/" and note how the words in the version I found (in bold) differ in some important ways from what you pasted.
"After we finished playing tennis, you and your wife Kang Jie brought me to your home. Then you took me into your room. Like what happened ten years ago in Tianjin, you wanted to have sex with me.
That afternoon I was very afraid. I did not expect this to happen - someone helped guard outside (translator note: not very clear what she's trying to say here), because nobody would believe that a wife would allow this. About seven years ago, we had sex. Then later on after you got promoted to be a member of the Politburo Standing Committee in Beijing, you never contacted me again. I used to bury everything inside me. After all, if you didn't want to take any responsibility, why did you come back for me, and brought me to your home to have sex? It is true that I don't have evidence. It is also not possible to leave evidence. Later on you kept denying, but it is true that you were attracted to me first, otherwise I couldn't have been able to come into contact with you.
That afternoon I didn't agree, and I kept crying. I had dinner with you and auntie Kang Jie together. You said the universe is very very big. The earth is merely a speck of sand in the universe , and us human beings are smaller than even a speck of sand. You said a lot more than that, and the purpose was basically to persuade me to drop my guard. After dinner, I was still not willing to have sex. You said you hated me. You said in those seven years, you never forgot about me, and you will treat me well etc... I was terrified and anxious. Taking into consideration the affection I had for you seven years ago, I agreed... yes, we had sex.
Romantic attraction is such a complicated thing that explain it clearly. From that day on, I renewed my love for you. Throughout my time with you after that, purely based on our interactions, you were a very good person, and you treated me well. We talking about recent history, as well as ancient eras. You educated me on so many topics, and we had discussions about economics, politics. We never ran out of things to talk about. We played chess, sang, played table tennis, played pool and also played tennis together. We always had endless fun. It was as if our personalities fit perfectly together."
Bear in mind, translations can often be imperfect in capturing the meaning behind the words. To me, it does sound like this guy used his position of power and maturity to take advantage of Peng. But did bona fide sexual assault occur? I can't really tell. Possibly, but not definitely. But for whatever reason, 99% of the people here are buying into an allegation of assault that Peng may not even have expressly said based on her own words.
And I'm very tired of explaining this. If 99% of the people on this board just want to believe what they WANT to believe, FINE. But it may not be truth they are believing in.
And I will add that you and I have happily discussed tennis on this board for a long time, but for you to call me a liar and to say I have worms for brains is EXTREMELY insulting.
Azure
G.O.A.T.
Ok got it. Perhaps the WTA is going step by step on the issue? I will be curious to see how this plays out.
Azure
G.O.A.T.
To be honest this does read very different to what @Kralingen posted.
jm1980
Talk Tennis Guru
Peng's entire post, in context, has a much different tone than the sexual assault angle the media is running with
Kralingen
Talk Tennis Guru
hadn't read that translation -- yeah, I understand your point now. It enters a grey area. apologies for the insults. But still, that sounds like an interaction that could be viewed through the lens of sexual assault or exploitation. And immediately purging this and burying the story - the Chinese reaction, was completely uncalled for though.
I react this way bc I think sexual assault allegations of any sort should be taken extremely seriously.
Azure
G.O.A.T.
Perhaps - was the original post in mandarin? If yes, i would not trust any translation and would rather have someone who knows the language do the needful. That said, the whole ‘silence’ from peng’s side for quite a few days cannot and should not be ignored either?
jm1980
Talk Tennis Guru
Of course, it was originally posted in Chinese. What is clear is that they had a long relationship before and after the incident. She goes into way too much detail about their relationship; she writes about playing poker, chess, pool together. She says he was a good person and treated her well.
All this context is gone if you read the headlines -- or even the full articles. They make it sound like she made a scathing post denouncing a sexual assault and was then disappeared.
The real crime though is taking her words out of context, extracting unrelated sentences from her post, and making it look what she wrote was way worse than what it actually was... Like this:
Whichever media outlet did this should be ashamed of themselves.
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Azure
G.O.A.T.
Perhaps but the action on suddenly deleting her post and silence from her end probably spooked a lot of people. At this point i really don’t have an opinion on this issue.
wangs78
Legend
Apology accepted, no problem. I fully agree that an allegation of assault should be investigated. I'm just not even sure that Peng is alleging that in her post. But the press here in America is taking that narrative and pushing it hard without any balancing perspective, which, to me has to be driven by political motivations. That's my opinion. And I don't like an authoritarian government any more than the rest of us.
wangs78
Legend
As some other people have pointed out, the CCP probably did not have their best people handling this (they did not realize that Peng represented such a lightning rod and PR risk).
MeatTornado
Talk Tennis Guru
Kind of amusing how this blew up into a global story with 3 different threads shooting up to the frontpage of Reddit, but we've barely got 2 pages of discussion here on an actual tennis forum.
Bartelby
Bionic Poster
It's a political story, so I can't see anything odd or amusing about it being taken up in political fora.
FlamingCheeto
Hall of Fame
" China’s leaders, incapable of conceding to foreign pressure, refused to cooperate and instead launched a propaganda campaign through state-controlled media outlets to try to convince the world that Peng was safe and sound. Ineptly conceived, it failed miserably. An email purportedly written by Peng, and released by a Chinese television network, asserted her well-being and retracted her allegation against Zhang in language too stilted to be credible. The Global Times’ Hu passed around videos supposedly showing Peng at a Beijing restaurant, one of which featured dinner companions who were unusually fixated on the date—Peng might as well have been holding up a newspaper. The only people fooled seemed to be the officials of the International Olympic Committee, who, probably desperate to rescue the Winter Games, participated in the charade by holding a video call with Peng—and then endured an avalanche of international criticism. Somehow, though, Peng has never found the time to speak with Steve Simon, who hasn’t bought any of it."
www.theatlantic.com
What the Peng Shuai Scandal Is Really About
The disappearance of the Chinese tennis star is an embarrassment to Beijing—and undercuts its campaign to present the Chinese system as a model for the world.
www.theatlantic.com
wangs78
Legend
Effectively, nothing new is being suspended if every WTA event had been on hold already. That’s why this was such a brilliant PR move. Makes the WTA look like a hero for giving up nothing. Meanwhile the press gets to run with the story of how an American organization is willing to give up hundreds of millions of revenue in defense of women and freedom. Essentially, all of this will achieve a nice moral victory for the US ahead of the Olympics. Even though that victory was achieved with a lot of bending and twisting of actual facts.
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FlamingCheeto
Hall of Fame
So in your opinion, it's not the right move? What is your solution? smh
No it doesn't not here in the States at least. She does not have to meet any burden proving her assertions at all. Its the plaintiff who has to prove that facts alleged are false statements as an element of their prima facie case, not the other way around. Her 'lack of substantiation', does not prove a false statement. It shows one without an evidence based foundation.
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FlamingCheeto
Hall of Fame
"
Now that’s how you handle a bully. Pop him in the nose.
While sports leagues and organizations from the International Olympic Committee to the NBA have repeatedly cowered rather than confront China over its massive human rights abuses in a meaningful and powerful way, the WTA has put on a master class in responsible and admirable leadership.
It said it was willing to lose millions of dollars by doing the right thing — and then it went ahead and did just that. "
____
“None of this is acceptable nor can it become acceptable,” Simon said. "If powerful people can suppress the voices of women and sweep allegations of sexual assault under the rug, then the basis on which the WTA was founded — equality for women — would suffer an immense setback. I will not and cannot let that happen to the WTA and its players.”
And so he didn’t, providing the gold standard of behavior and leadership for our times.
Now that’s how you handle a bully. Pop him in the nose.
While sports leagues and organizations from the International Olympic Committee to the NBA have repeatedly cowered rather than confront China over its massive human rights abuses in a meaningful and powerful way, the WTA has put on a master class in responsible and admirable leadership.
It said it was willing to lose millions of dollars by doing the right thing — and then it went ahead and did just that. "
____
“None of this is acceptable nor can it become acceptable,” Simon said. "If powerful people can suppress the voices of women and sweep allegations of sexual assault under the rug, then the basis on which the WTA was founded — equality for women — would suffer an immense setback. I will not and cannot let that happen to the WTA and its players.”
And so he didn’t, providing the gold standard of behavior and leadership for our times.
Bartelby
Bionic Poster
I'm not going into the legal intricacies. And you've oversimplified the law, in any event. These things work differently in China as well. But quite clearly she is defaming her former lover, in the ordinary sense of the word.
FlamingCheeto
Hall of Fame
How can you be so obtuse?
actually she "quite clearly" was sexually assaulted, then China tried to literally erase her from the internet, after taking down the allegation, making her literally disappear for almost 3 weeks while putting out a fake email that retracted her allegations, then staged some propaganda videos, and tried to sweep everything under the rug.
wangs78
Legend
The right move is for the US, its allies and China to stop with the flamethrowing and just leave their ideological biases at the door to try and figure out how to co-exist in this world. If there are legitimate human rights issues, those should be discussed and dealt with openly. But the current environment of ultranationalism stoked by fabricated narratives is only going to take us down a path to greater hostility. If it doesn't stop, who knows what will happen.
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