Like it or not Serena Williams is the Greatest

tennisMVP said:

I agree that Serena is the greatest player ever. The only player she ever struggled with was Hingis, I think Serena leads that 7-6.

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she is also just 8-6 up against justine. they were quite competitive in justines prime with justine also winning some big matches (3 in 2007).

however justine was of course one of the best ever during her prime so this is not really an arguement against her.

I see a paralel with Serena and Federer.Both very talented, can have a legitimate claim to GOAT status, but both belittled by their weak era.last and only truly great fed played was Sampras, and (maybe now Nadal), and that just once.Serena was very young when she faced Hingis and Davenport and those were the last true championns ( other than her sister and Clijsters) that she played regularly.

kiki said:

I see a paralel with Serena and Federer.Both very talented, can have a legitimate claim to GOAT status, but both belittled by their weak era.last and only truly great fed played was Sampras, and (maybe now Nadal), and that just once.Serena was very young when she faced Hingis and Davenport and those were the last true championns ( other than her sister and Clijsters) that she played regularly.

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Nadal is the greatest Roland Garros player of all-time. And Sampras is the greatest Wimbledon player of all-time. So the holes in Federer's legacy are that he didn't play the greatest US Open player of all-time (as in he didn't play Sampras at the US Open). But he did play Agassi at the Australian Open. Either way, he didn't play prime Sampras or prime Agassi, so that may be a problem.

jelle v said:

Well I'm 32 years old, been watching tennis since 1986 or so and I have never been really impressed with Venus her game.. I agree with the poster. I think Serena's game is a level above Venus her game.

When Venus was just on tour and quickly was a major force, people in that time were already saying that Venus had a younger sister who was even more talented, so I don't think it is far fetched to think that Serena is the better player.

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Well we just disagree.

However, can you name me a player who was faster, covered more ground, was more athletic or explosive than Venus at her peak? I don't think so...

I agree that there were players who were more technically sound, but I think Venus' explosiveness would overwhelm them (peak vs peak).

You didn't watch Graf I guess. Funny how Fed has won everything and holds almost every record, yet he's not the GOAT, yet Serena doesn't hold the records and she is the GOAT, only on TT.

Warriorroger said:

My thoughts exactly, what kind of field is she dominating??

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She just hasn't been tested by a quality player. People just look at the scoreboard and say "wow, she win so easy", but who is she facing across net is another story.

kiki said:

Serena never faced the density of champions that Graf or Hingis faced at their prime.Like Federer, the weak fields she faced belittle her achievements and put them straight into second tier ( which ain´t bad)

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lmao

Yeah, Nadal and Djokovic... they clearly aren't great champions.

THUNDERVOLLEY said:

Yeah, like after Wimbledon when several threads were created by Federer fanatics trying to convince themselves that the win made him the GOAT (obviously to even argue in that manner revealed the doubt they deny), but then there was the Olympics gold medal match v. Murray....and this USO and Berdych...
LOL indeed.

TMF said:

Well, that's how it is in this forum when a player gets hot. Before, some Nole fans claimed Nole is the greatest. LOL

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Comparing Serena to the WTA with Fed to the ATP is like comparing a cherry to a watermelon. The difference between them is astronomical. Fed holds the slam record at 17 and is 3 ahead of the 2nd place(Sampras). Serena is 8 slams behind Graf. Fed holds the record at weeks #1 and is about to reach 300 soon. Serena is 254 weeks behind Graf, 209 weeks behind Martina. In fact, she's even behind Hingis.

Serena is comparable to Agassi.

Greatest, but outclassed by almost every player.

TMF said:

Comparing Serena to the WTA with Fed to the ATP is like comparing a cherry to a watermelon. The difference between them is astronomical. Fed holds the slam record at 17 and is 3 ahead of the 2nd place(Sampras). Serena is 8 slams behind Graf. Fed holds the record at weeks #1 and is about to reach 300 soon. Serena is 254 weeks behind Graf, 209 weeks behind Martina. In fact, she's even behind Hingis.

Serena is comparable to Agassi.

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Yea...

especially when certain commentators directly compare Serena's serving stats with Federer or other top guys! Ridiculous comparison!

kiki said:

Serena never faced the density of champions that Graf or Hingis faced at their prime.Like Federer, the weak fields she faced belittle her achievements and put them straight into second tier ( which ain´t bad)

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{Graf, Navratilova, Chris} > Serena

Federer > {Laver, Sampras, Rosewall, Pancho}

TMF said:

{Graf, Navratilova, Chris} > Serena

Federer > {Laver, Sampras, Rosewall, Pancho}

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Come on now, this is a bit biased to say the least.

MichaelNadal said:

Come on now, this is a bit biased to say the least.

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It is to be expected from anyone who is obsessed with Federer--a man who was incapable winning the Grand Slam like Laver.

THUNDERVOLLEY said:

It is to be expected from anyone who is obsessed with Federer--a man who was incapable winning the Grand Slam like Laver.

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Yep because comparing tennis now to 40-50 years ago is totally fair to either player.

THUNDERVOLLEY said:

It is to be expected from anyone who is obsessed with Federer--a man who was incapable winning the Grand Slam like Laver.

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...and with weak fields...but, to be fair to federer, other GOAT candidates such as Borg or Sampras were even further away to win it than him.

フェデラー said:

Yep because comparing tennis now to 40-50 years ago is totally fair to either player.

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A lack of majors dominance in the calendar year is the issue. There's no excuse for it.

All these discussions on here are so stupid. They all degenerate to all the black guys supporting the black players because they are black, just like nearly 100% of the blacks in the USA vote for Obama for no other reason than that he is black. And the caucasian guys support the white players. That's the frickin truth of the whole thing, without a doubt.

Serena is NO WAY the greatest ever. She is miles behind Graf and Evert and Navratilova in accomplishments, and Serena is not in the same universe as far as class goes. Graf, Evert, Navratilova have class; Serena has none.

She is indeed the greatest BULLY in WTA.

THUNDERVOLLEY said:

It is to be expected from anyone who is obsessed with Federer--a man who was incapable winning the Grand Slam like Laver.

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So how many calendar year slams has James Blake won? Donald Young? Oh wait, they haven't won a single slam of any kind!!!

hcb0804 said:

All these discussions on here are so stupid. They all degenerate to all the black guys supporting the black players because they are black, just like nearly 100% of the blacks in the USA vote for Obama for no other reason than that he is black. And the caucasian guys support the white players. That's the frickin truth of the whole thing, without a doubt.

Serena is NO WAY the greatest ever. She is miles behind Graf and Evert and Navratilova in accomplishments, and Serena is not in the same universe as far as class goes. Graf, Evert, Navratilova have class; Serena has none.

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I'm caucasian and I have supported Serena since day one. When I say she is the greatest, I refer to her capabilities and strengths as a player, not her accomplishments. She has accomplished a lot already, and I believe she will win more majors.

The-Champ said:

I'm caucasian and I have supported Serena since day one. When I say she is the greatest, I refer to her capabilities and strengths as a player, not her accomplishments. She has accomplished a lot already, and I believe she will win more majors.

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Completely agree. The Queen!

VICTORIA AZARENKA: Yeah, but I will not take anything back. I think she's brought ‑‑ for me she's the greatest player of all time.

http://www.usopen.org/en_US/news/interviews/2012-09-09/201209091347237756272.html

More and more people are saying it and it is becoming increasingly clear. Serena Williams is the best women tennis player of all time. As for people who bring up the slam win totals the # of slams won by Court and Graf are both highly inflated. Court by the Australian Open status (she won 11 Australian Opens over joke fields, in a way she only has 13 majors really), and Graf by the huge asterix of the Seles stabbing. Both are all time greats but nobody takes the inflated # of majors they won, well over 20, seriously for those reasons. Navratilova and Evert legitimately have 18 each, but Serena can easily catch or pass that total and probably will, and Martina and Chris had no competition besides each other, especialy Martina who dominated the uber weak 82-86 period.

THUNDERVOLLEY said:

As much as i'm a big fan of SW, she did not display the concentrated dominance at the majors within a season to win the Grand Slam--and I do not count the jumpoing over of one year into another for "personal slams" (a tennis PTB/media invention to pump the careers of ottherwise unimpressive players like Agassi). So, while she is--without question--one of the greatest players ever to step on a court, the's not the all-time best. That title belongs to Graf.

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Even if Graf is #1, Serena is #2 or #3 at this point. Major wins aside it is a joke to think players like Court and Evert, players Serena would squash like a bug anywhere but clay, even transported into time 35 years earlier with the same equipment, should rank above her. Graf and Navratilova maybe.

Grand Slams aside, if there was a round-robin tournament consisting of Graf, Navratilova, Evert, Billie Jean King, and Serena all in their primes, I would put my money on Serena Williams.

I'd say the outcome would be like this:
1) Serena
2) Graf
3) Navratilova
4) Billie Jean
5) Evert

Serena barely got by this head case of a clown today in Azarenka.. Someone even graf, Martina, Seles even Hingis and some others even in their later years who totally take a dump on.

Serena is ONE of the all time greats, but overall she really pales into comparison against the GOAT contenders.

I mean you can certainly make a more reasonable argument for Fed being GOAT then you can for Serena on the women's side. She can't even get the top ranking in this era (the worst era ever for Women's). She should be year round dominating this field with ease and winning calendar slams galore.. Hell someone like Graf would and with EASE and probably not even need to put much effort in doing so.

Why Serena isn't doing it, I'm not entirely sure. I mean she was in danger of choking to USO finals two years in a row.. And would have if not for that head case dropping a 5-3 lead and losing her serve twice.

The field has been very weak really since Henin and some other top dogs retired.. Not sure why Serena is only sitting on 15 slams. There is certainly no one even CLOSE to the talent of Justine on tour today to contend with that should even remotely be stopping Serena from dominating with ease.

Sharpova is average at best.. Then the rest you got are just clowns like Wozniacki or Azarenka or Ivanovic.


Players like Graf would be working the slam count in the mid-upper 30s if this what they contended with for half their career. Yet Serena is just working on HALF that

90's Clay said:

Serena barely got by this head case of a clown today in Azarenka.. Someone even graf, Martina, Seles even Hingis and some others even in their later years who totally take a dump on.

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Serena certainly did not play well in this match, it was all about her mental fortitude. Don't forget what she did to Azarenka in their last two matches. Plus Serena is in her 30s ffs. Serena beat Seles, Davenport and Hingis to win her first major, how about that?

The-Champ said:

Serena certainly did not play well in this match, it was all about her mental fortitude. Don't forget what she did to Azarenka in their last two matches. Plus Serena is in her 30s ffs. Serena beat Seles, Davenport and Hingis to win her first major, how about that?

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I highly doubt Navritilova or Graf would even have a smidgeon of trouble even in their mid 30s vs. someone like Azarenka.. Age is not a big deal if the competition is so talentless. Thats a big reason why some of these past good players retiring came back.. More to accomplish and more money to make vs. that crap field. The slams are for anyone to grab today

Best player, YES.
Greatest, No.

I'd like

I'd like to see her get to 18 or 19 majors before she hangs her racket up. That would put her in the Navratilova and Evert league - Grand Slam wise - but not dominance wise. (Evert and Martina - are all over Serena in terms of weeks at number 1). Also, I don't think she is in the Graf league. Steffi is just that much better. In her early 40's she played an exhibition against Kim Clisters at Wimbledon - she didn't look all that bad - so at her peak - the current players could forget it.

It's tough to name THE GOAT. Would everyone agree on this top 5 all time on the women's side (in no particular order)?

Steffi Graf
Martina Navratilova
Chris Evert
Serena Williams
Margaret Court

VICTORIA AZARENKA: Yeah, but I will not take anything back. I think she's brought ‑‑ for me she's the greatest player of all time. She took the game to the next level. As I said before, she makes me all the time to make sure that I'm taking my game, my personality, my physical aspect to the next level.

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I have to agree.

I don't believe there is any other female player in history who could beat Serena, when Serena is at her best.

One other thing:

It's tough to rank Serena because she hasn't consistently dedicated herself to tennis. That's the main reason she doesn't have more weeks at #1 and more titles overall.

timnz said:

I'd like to see her get to 18 or 19 majors before she hangs her racket up. That would put her in the Navratilova and Evert league - Grand Slam wise - but not dominance wise. (Evert and Martina - are all over Serena in terms of weeks at number 1). Also, I don't think she is in the Graf league. Steffi is just that much better. In her early 40's she played an exhibition against Kim Clisters at Wimbledon - she didn't look all that bad - so at her peak - the current players could forget it.

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That's because Kim didn't go all out on her. Sampras beat Federer in Macau in 2007, do you actually believe Pete would stand a chance against Fed in a real match? lol. I'm a huge Pete fan but c'mon, that was an exhibition, same as Kim/Steffi.

The-Champ said:

That's because Kim didn't go all out on her. Sampras beat Federer in Macau in 2007, do you actually believe Pete would stand a chance against Fed in a real match? lol. I'm a huge Pete fan but c'mon, that was an exhibition, same as Kim/Steffi.

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I do... Fed still had a hell of a time with that Sampras serve and attack indoors.. The way Pete was serving in Macau and how fast the conditions were , I think most if not all of the top player would have issue reading and returning it

Down_the_line said:

One other thing:

It's tough to rank Serena because she hasn't consistently dedicated herself to tennis. That's the main reason she doesn't have more weeks at #1 and more titles overall.

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That's true, but also she has had many starts and stops due to injury, sickness and personal tragedy.

If the question is, would Serena dominate over any of the other great players of past generations, I think the answer is a definite and resounding yes.

If the answer is one based on how many titles won or how many weeks at #1, I don't think Serena will ever beat the weeks at #1 stat as the field of tennis player is much different and much deeper than in years past and with Serena voluntarily missing Indian Wells each year, there is just no way for her to catch up to the ridiculously high # of weeks at #1 that people were able to acheive in the past.

It is very easy to imagine Serena passing 18 GS singles titles and not unbelievable to see her reach or surpass 22.

However, if the question is would Serena routinely beat Graf, Evert, Navratilova if they played in the same era...the answer is a resounding yes.

She is just better than them in too many categories to imagine otherwise -- equally or mentally stronger, far superior serve, superior groundstrokes.

She can't even DOMINATE fully this era.. Come on.. She doesn't have the consistency or focus to consistently dominate past all time greats, who were WAYYY more consistent and focused then her. SHe would get some big matches once in a while vs. players like Graf, Evert, Martina and others..

But to "consistently" do it? Hell no. Thus why even if Serena were their contemporaries should would never have any long term upper hand over them.. Maybe a slightly BRIEF one but she would certainly be behind in the race

The-Champ said:

VICTORIA AZARENKA: Yeah, but I will not take anything back. I think she's brought ‑‑ for me she's the greatest player of all time.

http://www.usopen.org/en_US/news/interviews/2012-09-09/201209091347237756272.html

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Wow, she beat "Super Shriek" and now "Super Shriek" thinks she is the best...like either of those things mean much.

Soianka said:

That's true, but also she has had many starts and stops due to injury, sickness and personal tragedy.

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99% of which is pure fiction

pug said:

99% of which is pure fiction

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LOL, I guess her sister is still alive, her parents didn't get divorced, she didn't have a pulmonary embolism, and I guess all of her other injuries she fabricated for fun.

:-?

and who did Erranie beat to get to play Serena. Also, that's 1 of what 7 matches? She can't control who she plays.

TMF said:

Serena just beat a 5'4" player with a serve at 60mph, no power, reach disadvantage. I'm sure many players can beat Errani.

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Serena's longevity is what amazes me the most. Major titles 13 years apart, in 3 different decades and during her teenage years, 20s and 30s.

Setback after setback she has suffered off the court but she has kept coming back again and again.

here's the thing: is it better to show intermittent dominance over a longer period, or sustain near-dominance over almost as long a period ?...because serena's career has not exactly been a steady employment record.

Well Serena has won at least one slam title in 8 out of the last 11 years, and in two of the three years that she didn't, 2006 and 2011, she was injured and off the tour for much of the season. She has won at least 2 slam titles in 5 out of the last 11 years. So I would say she has been pretty consistent and steady at the highest level over the years.

She held all 4 slams simultaneously and won 5 slams out of 6 in 2002-2003, and won 3 slams out of 4 from 2008-2009, so she also had periods of concentrated dominance as well.

Clisters/Graf

The-Champ said:

That's because Kim didn't go all out on her. Sampras beat Federer in Macau in 2007, do you actually believe Pete would stand a chance against Fed in a real match? lol. I'm a huge Pete fan but c'mon, that was an exhibition, same as Kim/Steffi.

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Maybe you are right. Maybe....But still, how do you think that Clisters would go against a Peak Graf?

If Serena is the greatest ever is Azarenka only a couple of points from being the best ever?

When Serena is playing well, she hits aces, puts away short balls and hits winners off powderpuff second serves. When she is playing badly, she hits tons of unforced errors and looks really bad. Her record is her record, and it is quite impressive and one of the great ones, putting her in the top few, but I don't know that beating up on weaker players 6-0, 6-1 is much more impressive than beating up on weaker players 6-2, 6-2.

timnz said:

I'd like to see her get to 18 or 19 majors before she hangs her racket up. That would put her in the Navratilova and Evert league - Grand Slam wise - but not dominance wise. (Evert and Martina - are all over Serena in terms of weeks at number 1). Also, I don't think she is in the Graf league. Steffi is just that much better. In her early 40's she played an exhibition against Kim Clisters at Wimbledon - she didn't look all that bad - so at her peak - the current players could forget it.

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Here's the stats for all the players in the open era. I updated on some of the stats for current players since I've posted this list quite some time ago. Appologize if there's any error.


IN THE OPEN ERA

Most GS titles
player total
1 Steffi Graf 22
2 Martina Navratilova 18
2 Chris Evert 18
4 Serena Williams 15
5 Margaret Court 11
6 Monica Seles 9
7 Billie Jean King 8
8 Justine Henin 7
8 Evonne Goolagong Cawley 7
8 Venus Williams 7

Most GS finals
Rank Name Total
1 Chris Evert 34 (18 )
2 Martina Navrátilová 32 (18 )
3 Steffi Graf 31 (22)
4 Serena Williams 19 (15)
5 Evonne Goolagong 18 (7)
6 Venus Williams 14 (7)
7 Monica Seles 13 (9)
8 Margaret Court 12 (11)
8 Martina Hingis 12 (5)
8 Billie Jean Moffitt 12 (8 )

Most single titles
Rank Player Singles
1 Martina Navratilova 167
2 Chris Evert 157
3 Steffi Graf 107
4 Margaret Court 92
5 Evonne Goolagong Cawley 68
6 Billie Jean King 67
7 Lindsay Davenport 55
8 Virginia Wade 55
9 Monica Seles 53
10 Hingis, Serena 45

Most weeks at #1
Rank Player weeks
1 Steffi Graf 377
2 Martina Navratilova 332
3 Chris Evert 260
4 Martina Hingis 209
5 Monica Seles 178
6 Serena Williams 123
7 Justine Henin 117
8 Lindsay Davenport 98
9 Amélie Mauresmo 39
10 Dinara Safina * 26

Consecutive weeks at #1
1 Steffi Graf (1) 186
2 Martina Navratilova (1) 156
3 Chris Evert (1) 113
4 Steffi Graf (2) 94
5 Monica Seles (1) 91
6 Martina Navratilova (2) 90
7 Steffi Graf (3) 87
8 Martina Hingis (1) 80
9 Chris Evert (2) 76
10 Martina Hingis (2) 73

Year end No. 1 players
player year
Steffi Graf 8
Martina Navratilova 7
Chris Evert 5
Lindsay Davenport 4
Justine Henin 3
Martina Hingis 3
Monica Seles 3
Caroline Wozniacki 2
Serena Williams 2
Jelena Jankovic 1

All surface single winning percentage
Rank Player Wins Losses Win %
1 Margaret Court 593 56 91.37
2 Chris Evert 1309 146 89.97
3 Steffi Graf 902 115 88.69
4 Martina Navratilova 1442 219 86.82
5 Serena Williams 549-108 83.56
6 Monica Seles 595 122 82.98
7 Justine Henin 525 115 82.03
8 Billie Jean King 695 155 81.76
9 Evonne Goolagong Cawley 704 165 81.01

Clay court singles career winning percentage
Rank Player Wins Losses Win %
1 Chris Evert 316 20 94.05
2 Steffi Graf 273 30 90.1
3 Justine Henin 130 22 85.83
4 Monica Seles 142 25 85.03
5 Martina Hingis 109 25 81.34
6 Martina Navratilova 202 47 81.12
7 Gabriela Sabatini 196 49 80
8 Maria Sharapova 79 20 79.80
9 Serena Williams 104 29 78.20
10 Venus Williams 143 40 78.14

Hard court singles career winning percentage
Rank Player Wins Losses Win %
1 Steffi Graf 335 36 90.3
2 Chris Evert 304 37 89.15
3 Martina Navratilova 340 48 87.63
4 Serena Williams 333 60 84.72
5 Monica Seles 311 59 84.05
6 Kim Clijsters 323 69 82.4
7 Justine Henin 251 56 81.76
8 Venus Williams 335 80 80.78
9 Lindsay Davenport 469 116 80.17
10 Maria Sharapova 264 66 80.00

Grass court singles career winning percentage
Rank Player Wins Losses Win %
1 Martina Navratilova 305 39 88.66
2 Serena Williams 63 10 86.30
3 Chris Evert 184 25 88.04
4 Venus Williams 74 11 85.39
5 Steffi Graf 85 15 85
6 Maria Sharapova 65 13 83.33
7 Justine Henin 53 11 82.82
8 Jana Novotna 79 21 79
9 Tracy Austin 43 12 78.18
10 Kim Clijsters 56 16 77.78

Carpet court singles career winning percentage
Rank Player Wins Losses Win %
1 Martina Navratilova 516 58 89.9
2 Steffi Graf 189 23 89.2
3 Chris Evert 209 39 84.3
4 Serena Williams 34 7 82.93
5 Martina Hingis 97 23 80.83
6 Kim Clijsters 50 13 79.37
7 Monica Seles 98 26 79.03
8 Lindsay Davenport 93 27 77.5
9 Tracy Austin 85 25 77.27
10 Venus Williams 50 17 74.63

Most singles matches won
Player Wins
1 Martina Navratilova 1442
2 Chris Evert 1309
3 Steffi Graf 902
4 Virginia Wade 839
5 Arantxa Sánchez Vicario 759
6 Lindsay Davenport 753
7 Conchita Martínez 739
8 Evonne Goolagong Cawley[5] 704
9 Billie Jean King 695
10 Gabriela Sabatini 632

Most match winning streak(all surfaces)
Rank Player Matches
1 Martina Navratilova 74
2 Steffi Graf 66
3 Martina Navratilova 58
4 Margaret Court 57
5 Chris Evert 55
6 Martina Navratilova 54
7 Steffi Graf 46
8 Steffi Graf 45
9 Steffi Graf 44
10 Martina Navratilova 41

Most consecutive singles titles
1. 13 - Martina Navratilova (1984)
2. 12 - Margaret Court (1972-1973)
3. 11 - Steffi Graf (1989-1990)
4. 10 - Chris Evert (1974)
5. 9 - Martina Navratilova (1986)
5. 9 - Margaret Court (1970)
7. 8 - Steffi Graf (1988 )
7. 8 - Martina Navratilova (1983)

Best annual singles winning percentage
No Player Year W-L %
1. Martina Navratilova 1983 86-1 98.85
2. Steffi Graf 1989 86-2 97.73
3. Martina Navratilova 1984 78-2 97.50
4. Steffi Graf 1987 75-2 97.40
5. Martina Navratilova 1982 90-3 96.77
6. Martina Navratilova 1986 89-3 96.73
7. Steffi Graf 1988 72-3 96.00
8. Steffi Graf 1995 47-2 95.91
9. Margaret Court 1973 102-5 95.32
10. Chris Evert 1978 56-3 94.92
11. Chris Evert 1977 70-4 94.59
12. Martina Navratilova 1985 84-5 94.38
13 Justine Henin 2007 63-4 94.03



Most consecutive years winning at least one singles title
1. 21 - Martina Navratilova (1974-1994)
2. 18 - Chris Evert (1971-1988 )
3. 14 - Steffi Graf (1986-1999)
4. 11 - Evonne Goolagong Cawley (1970-1980)
4. 11 - Virginia Wade (1968-1978 )
6. 9 - Sandra Cecchini (1984-1992)
6. 9 - Margaret Court (1968-1976)
6. 9 - Lindsay Davenport (1993-2001)
6. 9 - Conchita Martinez (1988-1996)
6. 9 - Arantxa Sanchez Vicario (1988-1996)

Most singles titles won in a year
1. 21 - Margaret Court (1970)
2. 18 - Margaret Court (1969, 1973)
3. 17 - Billie Jean King (1971)
4. 16 - Chris Evert (1974, 1975)
4. 16 - Martina Navratilova (1983)
6. 15 - Evonne Goolagong Cawley (1970)
6. 15 - Martina Navratilova (1982)
8. 14 - Margaret Court (1968 )
8. 14 - Steffi Graf (1989)
8. 14 - Martina Navratilova (1986)
11. 13 - Martina Navratilova (1984)
12. 12 - Chris Evert (1973, 1976)
12. 12 - Evonne Goolagong Cawley (1971)
12. 12 - Martina Navratilova (1985)
15. 11 - Tracy Austin (1980)
15. 11 - Chris Evert (1977)
15. 11 - Steffi Graf (1987, 1988 )
15. 11 - Martina Navratilova (1978, 1979)

I think if Serena equals or passes Fed in the slam count, then its a done deal - Serena is G.O.A.T.

The Golden Slams, Doubles Slams, and Serena Slam look really nice on her resume Those things alone are enough to bump her above Graf even if she ends up just 3 or 4 short of matching her total count.

90's Clay said:

Serena barely got by this head case of a clown today in Azarenka.. Someone even graf, Martina, Seles even Hingis and some others even in their later years who totally take a dump on.

Serena is ONE of the all time greats, but overall she really pales into comparison against the GOAT contenders.

I mean you can certainly make a more reasonable argument for Fed being GOAT then you can for Serena on the women's side. She can't even get the top ranking in this era (the worst era ever for Women's). She should be year round dominating this field with ease and winning calendar slams galore.. Hell someone like Graf would and with EASE and probably not even need to put much effort in doing so.

Why Serena isn't doing it, I'm not entirely sure. I mean she was in danger of choking to USO finals two years in a row.. And would have if not for that head case dropping a 5-3 lead and losing her serve twice.

The field has been very weak really since Henin and some other top dogs retired.. Not sure why Serena is only sitting on 15 slams. There is certainly no one even CLOSE to the talent of Justine on tour today to contend with that should even remotely be stopping Serena from dominating with ease.

Sharpova is average at best.. Then the rest you got are just clowns like Wozniacki or Azarenka or Ivanovic.


Players like Graf would be working the slam count in the mid-upper 30s if this what they contended with for half their career. Yet Serena is just working on HALF that

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Correct. If you compare how Serena stacked against the former great female players to Fed against his former great, Federer is light years ahead of Serena, in just about every categories. Fed holds many tennis records, Serena doesn't have much(if any) tennis records.

Most GS titles
1. Roger Federer 17*
2. Pete Sampras 14
3. Björn Borg 11
= Rafael Nadal 11*
5. Jimmy Connors 8
= Ivan Lendl 8
= Andre Agassi 8
8. John McEnroe 7
= Mats Wilander 7
10. Stefan Edberg 6
= Boris Becker 6

GS finals
1. Roger Federer 24*
2. Ivan Lendl 19
3. Pete Sampras 18
4. Björn Borg 16
= Rafael Nadal 16*
6. Jimmy Connors 15
= Andre Agassi 15
8. John McEnroe 11
= Mats Wilander 11
= Stefan Edberg 11

Consecutive GS finals
1. Roger Federer 10
2. Roger Federer 8
3. Rafael Nadal 5
4. Andre Agassi 4
= Rod Laver 4
= Novak Djokovic 4
7. Jimmy Connors 3
= Björn Borg 3
= Björn Borg 3
= Björn Borg 3
= Ivan Lendl 3
= John McEnroe 3
= Ivan Lendl 3
= Ivan Lendl 3
= Mats Wilander 3
= Jim Courier 3
= Jim Courier 3
= Pete Sampras 3
= Rafael Nadal 3


GS semi-finals
1. Roger Federer 32*
2. Jimmy Connors 31
3. Ivan Lendl 28
4. Andre Agassi 26
5. Pete Sampras 23
6. John McEnroe 19
= Stefan Edberg 19
8. Boris Becker 18
9. Björn Borg 17
= Rafael Nadal 16*

Consecutive GS semi-finals
1. Roger Federer 23
2. Ivan Lendl 10
3. Novak Djokovic 9*
4. Ivan Lendl 6
= Nadal 6
6. Novak Djokovic 5
= Boris Becker 5
8. Roger Federer 4*
= Rod Laver 4
= Tony Roche 4
= John McEnroe 4
= Andre Agassi 4
= Jim Courer 4
= Nadal 4
= Andy Murray 4

GS quarter-finals
1. Jimmy Connors 41
2. Roger Federer 37*
3. Agassi 36
4. Ivan Lendl 34
5. Pete Sampras 29
6. John McEnroe 26
= Stefan Edberg 26
8. Boris Becker 23
= Rafael Nadal 23*
10. Björn Borg 21
= Novak Djokovic 21*

Consecutive GS quarter-finals
1. Roger Federer 33*
2. Ivan Lendl 14
3. Novak Djokovic 13*
4. Rafael Nadal 11
5. Pete Sampras 10
6. Ivan Lendl 7
= Mats Wilander 7
= Andy Murray 7
9. Andre Agassi 6
= Rafael Nadal 6

All Four Slams Per Year
Rod Laver 1969

Three Slams Per Year
Jimmy Connors 1974
Mats Wilander 1988
Roger Federer 2004
Roger Federer 2006
Roger Federer 2007
Rafael Nadal 2010
Novak Djokovic 2011


All Four Finals Per Year
Roger Federer 2006
Roger Federer 2007
Roger Federer 2009
Rod Laver 1969

All Four Semi-finals Per Year
Rod Laver 1969
Ivan Lendl 1987
Roger Federer 2005
Roger Federer 2006
Roger Federer 2007
Roger Federer 2008
Roger Federer 2009
Rafael Nadal 2008
Novak Djokovic 2011
Andy Murray 2011

Most consecutive matches won at one Grand Slam event:
1. Björn Borg (Wimbledon), 41
2. Roger Federer (Wimbledon), 40
= Roger Federer (US Open), 40
4. Pete Sampras (Wimbledon), 31
= Rafael Nadal (French Open), 31

Most consecutive Slams played:
1. Wayne Ferreira 56
2. Stefan Edberg 54
3. Roger Federer 51*
4. Fabrice Santoro 46
5. Dominik Hrbatý 44
6. Feliciano Lopez 42*
7. Tommy Robredo 41
8. David Ferrer 39*
9. Mark Woodforde 37
=. Jonas Björkman 37

Most Grand Slam match wins
2. Roger Federer 244*
2. Jimmy Connors 233
3. Andre Agassi 224
4. Ivan Lendl 222
5. Pete Sampras 204

Other Stuff:

Year-End Championships
1. Roger Federer 6*
2. Ivan Lendl 5
= Pete Sampras 5
4. Ilie Nastase 3
= John McEnroe 3
= Boris Becker 3

Most Weeks at #1
1. Roger Federer 287+*
2. Pete Sampras 286
3. Ivan Lendl 270
4. Jimmy Connors 268
5. John McEnroe 170
6. Björn Borg 109
7. Rafael Nadal 102*
8. Andre Agassi 101
9. Lleyton Hewitt 80
10. Stefan Edberg 72

Consecutive Weeks at #1
1. Roger Federer (1) 237
2. Jimmy Connors (1) 160
3. Ivan Lendl (1) 157
4. Pete Sampras (1) 102
5. Jimmy Connors (2) 84
6. Pete Sampras (2) 82
7. Ivan Lendl (2) 80
8. Lleyton Hewitt (1) 75
9. John McEnroe (1) 58
10. Rafael Nadal (1) 56

Year End #1
1. Sampras 6
2. Federer 5*
3. Borg 4
4. Connors 3
= Lendl 3
= McEnroe 3


Highest Season Winning Percentage
1. John McEnroe (1984) .965 82–3
2. Jimmy Connors (1974) .959 93–4
3. Roger Federer (2005) .953 81–4
4. Roger Federer (2006) .948 92–5
5. Björn Borg (1979) .933 84–6
6. Ivan Lendl (1986) .925 74–6
7. Roger Federer (2004) .925 74–6
8. Ivan Lendl (1985) .923 84–7
9. Ivan Lendl (1982) .922 106–9
10. Björn Borg (1980) .921 70–6
= Novak Djokovic (2011) 0.921 70-6

Most ATP Titles
1. Jimmy Connors 109
2. Ivan Lendl 94
3. John McEnroe 77
4. Roger Federer 75*
5. Björn Borg 64
= Pete Sampras 64
7. Guillermo Vilas 62
8. Andre Agassi 60
9. Sampras 6
= Rafael Nadal 50*
10. Boris Becker 49

Consecutive Match Win Streak
1. Björn Borg 49 1978
2. Björn Borg 48 1979–80
3. Guillermo Vilas 46 1977
4. Ivan Lendl 44 1981–82
5. Novak Djokovic 43 2010–11
6. John McEnroe 42 1984
7. Roger Federer 41 2006–07
8. Thomas Muster 35 1995
= Roger Federer 35 2005
10.Jimmy Connors 33 1974

Service Ace said:

I think if Serena equals or passes Fed in the slam count, then its a done deal - Serena is G.O.A.T.

The Golden Slams, Doubles Slams, and Serena Slam look really nice on her resume Those things alone are enough to bump her above Graf even if she ends up just 3 or 4 short of matching her total count.

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ATP =/= WTA

Serena must reach Graf's 22 and other important criteria
Nadal must reach Federer's 17 and other important cirteria

Please review the stats above.