IgnatusP
Banned
No problem. What I said doesn't mean he wasn't injured, though. Tendinitis is a nagging condition (it reminds me of a certain poster), and I think they finally figured out that he needed extended rest to handle long term damage.
If Nadal wins RG and Wimbledon, is Fed record threatened?
- Thread starter IgnatusP
- Start date
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Deleted member 77403
Guest
So might Federer (again).
So might Djokovic....
Yes, if Nadal wins RG and W, then of course he is in striking distance. The record in threatened. However, what if Djokovic snatches RG away and takes one of W or the USO...Is Nadal's position then threatened?
The problem Nadal is facing is that not only is he the hunter, he is also being hunted.
IgnatusP
Banned
Yes, of course it is! Djokovic is Nadal's main threat, and it has been this way for a couple of years now.
I think the next 4 months will answer a lot of questions.
Gonzo_style
Hall of Fame
I would rank Nadal higher than Federer if he wins another Wimbledon title and another USO or AO (3 Major titles on clay, grass and HC)
But that's just my opinion...
But that's just my opinion...
Phoenix1983
G.O.A.T.
Fed's record will not be threatened even if Nadal does do the RG-W double this year. He would still need another 5 slams and will struggle to get many off clay.
Let's focus on him passing Borg first, then Sampras, before talking about Fed.
Let's focus on him passing Borg first, then Sampras, before talking about Fed.
mariecon
Hall of Fame
Very good point!
IgnatusP
Banned
And, what makes you think Federer is ahead of Borg? Borg would have over 20 slams had he played AO, and had he not retired before his time. The guy retired by the time some people start having good consistent results. And 3 Channel Slams when the natural surfaces were polar opposites has never been replicated, and probably never will.
If, on the other hand, you only care about raw numbers, then you have Nadal to worry about. You can't have it both ways.
Phoenix1983
G.O.A.T.
I don't do hypotheticals, there is no way to know that Borg "would have over 20 slams" if he'd played the AO, or played on longer. He might have been more tired by the time Wimbledon came around and thus lost some of the tight matches he played there, if he had regularly competed and won at the AO. He might have started losing to Lendl and Wilander on clay, and he was already being dominated by McEnroe off clay, after 1981.
One of the outstanding feats of tennis history, for sure. I rank Borg ahead of Nadal despite them having the same number of slams. Mind you, I rank Borg some way behind Federer.
Federer only has "Nadal to worry about" when he is in within, say, 2 slams of him. Not when he is an entire Becker/Edberg/Djokovic career behind (as he is now).
That's why I said focus on when Nadal can surpass Borg (likely at this FO) and then move on to Sampras. No need to talk about Fed at all at this stage, and maybe ever...
kragster
Hall of Fame
If Rafa were to win RG/Wim this year , he would potentially be in striking distance although he would still likely fall short since 4 slams will be a lot to make up. He might get 2-3 more at max. By 2014 Rafa will be 34 yrs old , Fed will be 40 and so neither of them will be competitive against 24 yr old Djoker/Murray or 22 yr old del potro.
Of course, most pundits thought Rafa's body wouldn't even hold up until now so you can never know.
Of course, most pundits thought Rafa's body wouldn't even hold up until now so you can never know.
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NadalAgassi
Guest
There isnt an unbeatable player on hard courts. Djokovic is the one to beat on the surface but he doesnt dominate hard courts the way Nadal does clay and Federer for awhile did the fast court events. Maybe in Australia he is close to unbeatable, but at the U.S Open he is easily beatable, 1-3 in finals so far, and 3 semi losses in a row too. Murray has only 1 hard court slam to date, and Nadal generally beats him in hard court slams. Federer is unlikely to ever win another slam, and he does it would have to be a last Wimbledon. Nadal will never dominate hard courts, but I laugh at the idea if he is in form he has no chance to win anymore hard court slams.
Mike Sams
G.O.A.T.
35 year old Nadal still winning RG. Retires with 20+ Slams. :lol:
Djokovic needed a 12-10 fifth set in Australia this year just to reach the QF. He might never win AO again if he keeps playing like that. And I think Murray is better at the US Open.
mariecon
Hall of Fame
I can't believe some people here actually believe that Nadal will still be invincible on clay when he's 30 years old. He's having enough trouble just putting in an entire year on tour and he's only 26, going on 27. In three years his knees will be the least of his worries.
Mike Sams
G.O.A.T.
How many finals and semifinals has Murray made at the USO compared to Djokovic?
Mike Sams
G.O.A.T.
You did realize how incredibly well Wawrinka was playing right?
That's the frustration about Wawrinka. He's capable of crushing guys but he has no belief. In terms of talent and strength, he's up there with the big 4. That dude can crush the ball! Stronger and more powerful than Federer off the backhand.
He looked better at Indian Wells this year than 2 years ago. I doubt he'll lose to Murray the way Djokovic did at the US Open. So probably some hardcourt slams for Nadal too. Australia is the least likely for Nadal, but you'd never know it after witnessing the 2012 AO.
Mike Sams
G.O.A.T.
Murray has beaten Nadal at AO and USO. Even pushed Nadal to 3 sets at Monte Carlo.
It's not like Murray can't beat Nadal. Let's be respectful and realistic. Nadal's not getting younger. If Nadal was in such good physical shape and great health and in his prime years, he would be playing Miami this week. But he's not because his body isn't what it used to be. He can't play with the consistent intensity that he did in his early 20s, tournament after tournament.
But Nadal beat Murray in 3 slams in 2011. Its crazy. Losing to the one guy in 3 slams in the same year. And none of those matches even went to 5 sets. Murray never use to have a problem with Nadal. But he sure does now. A major mental barrier.
IgnatusP
Banned
In some parallel universe perhaps. Nadal won't be 34 years old in this universe until 2020.
mariecon
Hall of Fame
Nadal seems to have gotten over his mental barrier of losing 7 in a row to Djokovic including 3 slam finals in a row. What makes you think Murray can't do the same? (BTW Murray won the last time they played, in the final of Tokyo 2011).
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IgnatusP
Banned
I am only going to work 2 hours today. When my boss questions this, I'll tell him it was a prime day.
kragster
Hall of Fame
In some parallel universe perhaps. Nadal won't be 34 years old in this universe until 2020.
I think you are sadly mistaken, get with the times. Go to any other thread to verify, grandpa Federer is turning nearly 40.
IgnatusP
Banned
Uh? Oh...OOOOHHHH! You mean in GOAT years. Got cha!
Phoenix1983
G.O.A.T.
Not really. If he wins 2 more slams, he would still need to win another 5 slams to break Federer's record (assuming Fed wins no more).
Even given a few more years winning at the FO, he'd still need to win 3 times off clay, and that becomes harder and harder for him as he nears 30.
I won't think of Fed's record as being threatened until Nadal is within 2 of Fed's total.
Mike Sams
G.O.A.T.
Murray wasn't expected to beat Nadal at RG. Murray was doing well in their Wimbledon match but a super easy putaway forehand caused a major mental collapse and that's the only opening Nadal needed on the fragile minded Murray.
Their USO match was a disaster as Murray was forced to play back to back days due to poor scheduling. It was clearly evident that John Isner had sucked the life out of Murray the day prior and Nadal took out the scraps. Murray wasn't close to his best against Nadal.
They have yet to play a match since Tokyo 2011 which Murray won.
Mike Sams
G.O.A.T.
So what exactly is Nadal's best tennis then? Because if Nadal's best tennis was that great, wouldn't he have many more non-clay titles than Djokovic? :lol:
Djoker has 4 AO titles. Nadal has 1. So where is Nadal's best tennis then from all these years and why doesn't he have many more AO titles considering it's basically the perfect hardcourt for his game?
IgnatusP
Banned
He would need 4 more to match Fed, therefore it wouldn't be Fed's record anymore.
If Nadal gets within 2 you can count on Fed coming out of retirement. Desperate circumstances require desperate measures.
The answer to your question is obvious. Nadal is the absolute opposite of Murray, mentally. Nadal is known as the strongest mind in tennis. He conquers all. Murray is known as the guy who lost all composure at the AO final because of a feather falling near him. Its a joke comparison.
m2nk2
Hall of Fame
Yeah, but during the 2/3 of his career he had Federal to deal with. Now with Federer gone he can really excel at the slams.
Barring a major disaster, Nadal should easily get another six slams. We know how effective he is at the French, and really, the tournament is his to lose.
The thing that's being overlooked is: if Nadal plays at an 'average' level (for him), he is always going to be the heavy favorite at Wimbledon as well. How many times in a lifetime can Rosol show up? I'd argue once. Nadal owns Federer, especially an aging Federer. Djokovic is unlikely to repeat his grass success. Murray cannot stop Nadal at Wimbledon as he has proven time and time again.
And he's not exactly a mug at the USO and, especially, the AO either.
Nadal needn't win any slams this year to reach 17 before his career ends - he has plenty of time, there is no need to panic.
The only thing that could complicate Nadal's life is if Federer significantly moves the goalpoasts by winning, say, 5 more slams. Anything less than that and Nadal will end his career with more.
The thing that's being overlooked is: if Nadal plays at an 'average' level (for him), he is always going to be the heavy favorite at Wimbledon as well. How many times in a lifetime can Rosol show up? I'd argue once. Nadal owns Federer, especially an aging Federer. Djokovic is unlikely to repeat his grass success. Murray cannot stop Nadal at Wimbledon as he has proven time and time again.
And he's not exactly a mug at the USO and, especially, the AO either.
Nadal needn't win any slams this year to reach 17 before his career ends - he has plenty of time, there is no need to panic.
The only thing that could complicate Nadal's life is if Federer significantly moves the goalpoasts by winning, say, 5 more slams. Anything less than that and Nadal will end his career with more.
Well, for at least 2 of the 4 slams, it simply doesn't matter what side of the draw Federer is in relative to Nadal. At the FO and Wimbledon, Nadal will beat Federer if they meet in the semi's, and, if they don't meet there, he will beat Federer in the final.
I think Nadal won't reach 18 GS.
7 more GS is A LOT.
He has won 11 GS in 8 years. He has won 2 GS in the last 2.5 years.
He is almost 27 years old.
I also think Djokovic won't reach 12 GS.
I really think that in the current era (similar conditions everywhere) the top player has it way easier to win A LOT of GS tournaments (if he truly is the best for several years), easier than in previous eras, but still it is extremely difficult to win around 15 (or more) GS even in this era.
I think Nadal may get to 15 (and I actually doubt it), but not more.
Djokovic may get to 11.
I know there isn't any good young player coming, so in principle we may think: who is going to stop Djokovic/Nadal from winning ALL the following (at least) 12 GS?
Well, it is something to think about, no doubt. With the lack of young talents, it is very possible that Nadal and Djokovic win maybe 10 of the following 12 GS.
But I think something else will happen. I don't know what exactly will be. But things change in tennis, unexpected things happen. Nobody saw the 2011 Djokovic coming, and maybe something similar happens again with another player.
7 more GS is A LOT.
He has won 11 GS in 8 years. He has won 2 GS in the last 2.5 years.
He is almost 27 years old.
I also think Djokovic won't reach 12 GS.
I really think that in the current era (similar conditions everywhere) the top player has it way easier to win A LOT of GS tournaments (if he truly is the best for several years), easier than in previous eras, but still it is extremely difficult to win around 15 (or more) GS even in this era.
I think Nadal may get to 15 (and I actually doubt it), but not more.
Djokovic may get to 11.
I know there isn't any good young player coming, so in principle we may think: who is going to stop Djokovic/Nadal from winning ALL the following (at least) 12 GS?
Well, it is something to think about, no doubt. With the lack of young talents, it is very possible that Nadal and Djokovic win maybe 10 of the following 12 GS.
But I think something else will happen. I don't know what exactly will be. But things change in tennis, unexpected things happen. Nobody saw the 2011 Djokovic coming, and maybe something similar happens again with another player.
DropShotArtist
Banned
Final slam tally:
Federer 18
Djokovic 13
Nadal 12
Delpo 5
Murray 4
Federer 18
Djokovic 13
Nadal 12
Delpo 5
Murray 4
Phoenix1983
G.O.A.T.
^ No way is Delpo finishing with 5 slams.
But I agree that neither Djokovic nor Nadal will match Sampras.
But I agree that neither Djokovic nor Nadal will match Sampras.
Nah, final slam tally;
Federer: 18
Djokovic: 10
Nadal: 20
Del-Potro: 1
Murray: 1
Elite
Semi-Pro
You honestly think Delpo will win 4 more GS's?
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NadalAgassi
Guest
FakeDjokovicFanWin (aka DropShotArtist) is nothing more than comedic relief. Dont look to his posts for anything beyond that.
