*** New Stringway Cross Stringing Tool***

[dennis10is]

Thanks for the review. I have the ML120 and everythign that SW makes has been of the highest quality.

I have to decide on whether I should get the combo for just the HD. I will only string my racket and all of my rackets are HD stringbed.

 

[fattsoo]

that's one cool looking tool...but i still like the old way of doing things

 

[1012007]

Very interested James Bond. I had a similar experience to yours:

I received the LD tool exactly 1 week ago. Since then I have done 6 rackets using the tool. 3 were using Gosen Micro, 2 were Big Banger Original and 1 MSV Hex. The first thing i noticed was how easy it was to operate the tool. Before i did my first racket, I had a quick look at the video and manual that SW have created. To be honest I didnt really need to as the tool was so easy to use, I just wanted to make sure I was doing everything 100% right.
Putting the tool in was so simple.
At first i thought when putting the comb in, all the strings would separate apart and be forced to stay apart for the rest of the string job. But then I realized that strings are made to stretch so there is no problem with a little difference in position between the strings in the racquet and the positions in the cross stringer.
Then putting the rest of the tool under and top of the comb was simple. It all fits into place perfectly and even if you get it wrong you can easily tell as it will feel wrong, so there is no chance of damaging the tool.

Then using the tool:
For the first 6 rackets I have done, I decided to use the long channel for all the mains. This meant I hand weaved the first 2 crosses rather than use the tool and have to turn it around, as at the moment I was quicker to hand weave 2 crosses than to turn the tool around. But after the first 6 sticks I tried to use the short channel for the first crosses and I doubt if I can beat the tool by hand.
But the good thing about the tool is that you can use it as you prefer, there is not only one best way to use it.
When using the long channel you only have to watch when going over or under the outside main. This is easy as you just look at the previous main.

About the speed with the tool:
My first racket I did with the tool using synthetic gut was still quick but I believe I could have done it fast by hand-weaving. My second racket was using MSV Hex which is hexagonal believe it or not. I was a lot quicker with the tool than I was before, as now I had got used to the tool, and weaving MSV by hand is not very fun. You can pull the string through the tool so you do not have to push the strings up and down to avoid friction etc. This saves time, prevents damage to the mains and saves your hands unless your careful and use an awl. By my third racket of Luxilon Original I flew through the crosses and was done it no time at all. It seemed like I had just started and I was already tying off the last cross. My 4th racket was Gosen Micro and this time I knew I was quicker with the tool then I would have been without it.
I have got the LD version which fits my racket, but I will shortly buy the HD version, so I can cover all rackets and save even more time, as well as enjoy stringing crosses

 

[drakulie]

Thanks for the feedback guys. Great stuff.

One thing where I would definitely purcahse this tool, is to string gut. Putting it thru this device, rather than weaving it, would put so much less strain on the string when doing the crosses.

have any of you guys used it for natural gut????

 

[1012007]

Thanks for the feedback guys. Great stuff.

One thing where I would definitely purcahse this tool, is to string gut. Putting it thru this device, rather than weaving it, would put so much less strain on the string when doing the crosses.

have any of you guys used it for natural gut????

I have not done gut (as of yet) but I think it is also possible to tension the string directly through the tool, which reduces the friction even more. I havnt done it, and I am not sure what tensions you would need to use, as of course it would be lower than usual as there is little to no friction

 

[drakulie]

^^^Ahhh, good point.

If/when you do tension the string with the tool, could you let us know if the string bed feels tighter?? I woudl imagine it would defintiely come out much tighter because of the lack of resistance when tensioning with the feedback from the mains.

Thanks in advance.

 

[1012007]

^^^Ahhh, good point.

If/when you do tension the string with the tool, could you let us know if the string bed feels tighter?? I woudl imagine it would defintiely come out much tighter because of the lack of resistance when tensioning with the feedback from the mains.

Thanks in advance.

If you tensioned two cross strings at 60lbs, one with the string going through the tool, and the other getting tensioned like normal, the one going through the tool will of course be at a higher tension as there is very little friction. I am not sure how many lbs tighter it would be, but to compensate you would have to sting lower when using the tool.

 

[Ronaldo]

If you tensioned two cross strings at 60lbs, one with the string going through the tool, and the other getting tensioned like normal, the one going through the tool will of course be at a higher tension as there is very little friction. I am not sure how many lbs tighter it would be, but to compensate you would have to sting lower when using the tool.

8# tighter

 

[1012007]

^ Ah ok thanks, Thats helps me and others I am sure

 

[JamesBond]

If you tensioned two cross strings at 60lbs, one with the string going through the tool, and the other getting tensioned like normal, the one going through the tool will of course be at a higher tension as there is very little friction. I am not sure how many lbs tighter it would be, but to compensate you would have to string lower when using the tool.

Your post relating to your experiences with the cross-string is the same reasoning that I have experienced. You have summed it up very well.

I have found it more convenient to weave in the first two and last two crosses by hand, and not turn the tool around after the 4th or 5th cross.
By keeping the tool in the same direction, long side towards the top, you can easily string in the 14 following crosses and then the 15th put it into place on the opposite (shorter) side of the tool, remove it (don't forget to release the lever before turning it to unlock the tool).

The only change in my stringing habits are that I always start a cross under the 1st main, ending it over the last main before pushing the string through the grommet. In fact it is more convenient to thread the crosses over the first main and directly into the cross-stringer, when it exits the tool, just push the tool down slightly to feed the cross under the last main then into the grommet.

The other advantage working like this is that you always push the tool towards the string that you will thread into ther tool, so the distance from the grommet to the tool is shorter and the distance from the tool to the grommet for the string exiting the tool is longer, in both cases this is more convenient.

I agree with our young English friend, this tool makes it so easy to string the crosses, you get to the bottom of the frame so effortlessly, you are there before you expect to arrive. The time passes so quickly I got the feeling that I must have missed a few crosses, very strange.

In conclusion,100% satisfied, great value for money, definitely an huge step forward in racquet stringing.

Lastly, do not, please do not even think about tensionning the crosses through the tool. The absence of friction will completely unbalance the relationship between the mains and crosses, normally crosses strung at the same tension as the mains have 33% less than the applied tension, if you wanted to keep the right proportions of tension, you would need to lower the set tension by -33%, I can't imagine where that would lead you . . .
JB

 

[dgoldman]

Has anyone tried this tool on an AG200 ? From reading the manual it seems the pattern is too tight. ie. the gap is less than 144mm between 14 mains.

 

[1012007]

JB you make some very good points.
I was never planning to tension the crosses in the tool, and with you saying not to, I definitely will not in the future, even though I wouldnt of as i would of not have known where to start with tensions etc.

After reading the manual and using the tool, I quickly figured it out it was easier to make sure the first cross went over the main before entering the tool, which you also point out.

I can see why people may criticise the tool, because you cannot use the tool for the last few crosses, but for me this is not a problem at all as there are very few mains to weave over and under. Also when I have almost finished the racket, my hands are still in very good condition, so stringing 4 crosses (including 2 top crosses in my case and yours JB) isnt an issue at all.

 

[1012007]

Has anyone tried this tool on an AG200 ? From reading the manual it seems the pattern is too tight. ie. the gap is less than 144mm between 14 mains.

I believe SW have designed a new comb (thing that you place on the strings) that will deal with rackets that have that problem

 

[dgoldman]

I was reading the SW manual for this tool and it said something like if the distance between 14 mains is less than 144mm it will be difficult even for the HD version.I measured my ag200 18x20 and it was at 140mm between 14 mains but then I looked at the picture in the SW manual and it put arrows on two mains...after counting the strings it looked like they put the arrows so that the spacing was between 16 mains so I am quite confused.

 

[JamesBond]

Has anyone tried this tool on an AG200 ? From reading the manual it seems the pattern is too tight. ie. the gap is less than 144mm between 14 mains.

@ dgoldman,
Yes, the AG200 was one of the first racquets that I strung with the SW cross-stringer, I mentioned this in an earlier post :
quote :
I have just strung up 2 different Dunlop frames :
> an Aerogel 200 95 sq.in. with a 16/19 with dense string pattern
> an Aerogel 400 100 sq.in. with a 16/19 with a more open string pattern
and it became quickly evident that despite the fact that these 2 frames are almost the same size and that they have the same number of mains and crosses, each frame required the approprate cross-stringer, the HD for the Aerogel 200 and the LD for the Aerogel 400.
unquote

I had no problems at all, because the outer mains are more widely spaced than most of the other mains. This is for the 16 main-string frame. Fotr the AG200 with the 18 mains, there will be most likely a problem with the 9th main on each side because the comb is a little too long to fit just inside the outer main. I believe that SW has found the solution for this and will propose a slightly shorter comb which would be well adapted to mid-size frames with 18 mains (Head Prestige, Radical, etc.) I have looked at this closely and I am certain that the solution is in hand, so no worries here, I will update you on this asap.

I have strung up a few more sticks with the tool and now have no doubts at all that this will continue to be an essential stringing tool for me. It really makes the string-job easier than ever. I haven't come across any inconveniences so far, just advantages, it's already becoming a habit, I am still surprised how quickly I have adopted this thing . . .

I would be interested to hear some comments from some other users, there must be some more of them out there who have started using this tool.
JB

 

[Dgpsx7]

I just started stringing a few weeks ago and I have not perfected my weave yet but I still believe that I could weave faster than someone using that machine. I think the idea is amazing and that it may appeal to a lot of people but I think for people who have been stringing for a while already even me who has been stringing for a couple weeks would be reluctant to buy that machine. The machine looks great but it still seems like there are too many steps.

They should have someone redo that video and try to use the machine as fast as possible so the potential of speed can be outlined.

 

[JamesBond]

I just started stringing a few weeks ago and I have not perfected my weave yet but I still believe that I could weave faster than someone using that machine. I think the idea is amazing and that it may appeal to a lot of people but I think for people who have been stringing for a while already even me who has been stringing for a couple weeks would be reluctant to buy that machine. The machine looks great but it still seems like there are too many steps.
They should have someone redo that video and try to use the machine as fast as possible so the potential of speed can be outlined.

@ Dgpsx7,

I think that you are overdoing it a bit with your post, it's difficult to be credible when you are still a newbe, it may be better to ask questions and look for answers rather than draw conclusions without knowing more about the subject.

Something that facinates me with forums is the number of people with little knowledge or experiences on a subject that express their opinions without having the slightest idea of what they are talking about.

I have utmost respect for those who relate their experiences and who tempt to explain or even draw conclusions which may be different from well established lines of thinking, which are not always well founded.

To state that you started stringing a few weeks ago, that you "have not perfected your weave yet" is very optimistic to say the least, but don't worry, within the next 2 weeks you can try to consider yourself a pro, but weaving is not like falling off a log, you don't need talent, but you do need to work at it. Weaving in crosses doesn't happen naturally after 4 weeks of stringing 2 racquets a day, it takes time and experience . . .

The cross stringer is probably a little complicated for you at this time, but after you have strung your first 100 racquets then perhaps you may well look at it differently, at least you should have a better understanding of what stringing racquets is really all about.

Hang in there, stringing sticks is a great hobby and can even become a profession if you enjoy it enough, and are modest enough to keep learning.
JB.

 

[beernutz]

@ Dgpsx7,

I think that you are overdoing it a bit with your post, it's difficult to be credible when you are still a newbe, it may be better to ask questions and look for answers rather than draw conclusions without knowing more about the subject.

Something that facinates me with forums is the number of people with little knowledge or experiences on a subject that express their opinions without having the slightest idea of what they are talking about.

I have utmost respect for those who relate their experiences and who tempt to explain or even draw conclusions which may be different from well established lines of thinking, which are not always well founded.

To state that you started stringing a few weeks ago, that you "have not perfected your weave yet" is very optimistic to say the least, but don't worry, within the next 2 weeks you can try to consider yourself a pro, but weaving is not like falling off a log, you don't need talent, but you do need to work at it. Weaving in crosses doesn't happen naturally after 4 weeks of stringing 2 racquets a day, it takes time and experience . . .

The cross stringer is probably a little complicated for you at this time, but after you have strung your first 100 racquets then perhaps you may well look at it differently, at least you should have a better understanding of what stringing racquets is really all about.

Hang in there, stringing sticks is a great hobby and can even become a profession if you enjoy it enough, and are modest enough to keep learning.
JB.

JamesBond, I agree with what you wrote and was going to post something similar to what you said however an interaction I had on another thread again reminded me that a large percentage of posters on the forums are teenagers or even pre-teens. As I now live with both a teenager (16) and a preteen (12) I am constantly reminded by them as to how, in their relatively brief time on this earth, their knowledge of almost all things has vastly exceeded my own. I generally try to cut them some slack over it or at worse gently needle them and try to remember how I was when I was their age. Just my $.02.

 

[Il Mostro]

...have any of you guys used it for natural gut????

Exactly the reason I ordered (well, for some stubborn poly too). I should have mine by the middle of next week, In the meantime, any reports on using them with natural gut would be appreciated.

 

[JamesBond]

JamesBond, I agree with what you wrote and was going to post something similar to what you said however an interaction I had on another thread again reminded me that a large percentage of posters on the forums are teenagers or even pre-teens. As I now live with both a teenager (16) and a preteen (12) I am constantly reminded by them as to how, in their relatively brief time on this earth, their knowledge of almost all things has vastly exceeded my own. I generally try to cut them some slack over it or at worse gently needle them and try to remember how I was when I was their age. Just my $.02.

Point taken, I have a 19 year old son and I know what you are talking about.

I guess that it's better not to react, we have to be careful not to give the impression that we are giving lessons, it may well be badly interpreted. Experience is very hard to transmit, especially to youngsters. :???:
JB

 

[Il Mostro]

^^^^^^
It will be easier by the time he reaches his mid-40's

 

[Bud]

^^^^^^
It will be easier by the time he reaches his mid-40's

First post I've seen from you in quite a while!

 

[Il Mostro]

First post I've seen from you in quite a while!

How are you, man? Yes, I went bamboo for a while -- a month lounging in the Philippines. Like Nixon, I am now tanned, rested and ready.

It didn't take me long (less than a week) to score another racquet I've been looking for, a minty Wilson Ultra FPK95. Now that I have a pair, I will reduce the grip sizes and start playing them -- still one of my favorite S&V sticks. So, if you spot another, you know who to call

 

[1012007]

Exactly the reason I ordered (well, for some stubborn poly too). I should have mine by the middle of next week, In the meantime, any reports on using them with natural gut would be appreciated.

Any more news, has it arrived yet?

 

[bsardana]

Cross stringing tool is available

If you are based in US, you can ping Mark Gonzalez @ Alpha to see if he has any supplies left. I ordered the tool from him and tried it on few of the Babolats. Stringing crosses is now a breeze.

The tool has many advantages - almost all have been covered in this thread.

 

[1012007]

If you are based in US, you can ping Mark Gonzalez @ Alpha to see if he has any supplies left. I ordered the tool from him and tried it on few of the Babolats. Stringing crosses is now a breeze.

The tool has many advantages - almost all have been covered in this thread.

How many rackets have you done? Whats your way of stringing the crosses? Finally What verison(s) do you have?

 

[bsardana]

How many rackets have you done? Whats your way of stringing the crosses? Finally What verison(s) do you have?

I got the HD version yesterday and have had the LD version since last week. I have done 6 racquets and the main advantage I am finding out is that the crosses are coming out literally untouched - no friction with the mains.

My original cross stringing method was purely traditional - nothing home to write about, and used to take time. With the tool, it is as easy as inserting the string at one end and practically, you are done with the cross. Very quick.

 

[Il Mostro]

Any more news, has it arrived yet?

Not yet. They should arrive tomorrow or the day after. I probably won't get a chance to string until Friday or Saturday but will chime in with my two cents. I know there were issues with some racquets (Mark specifically mentioned Head) that required "trimming" of the combs, which has already been done to mine -- whatever that actually entails.

 

[1012007]

I got the HD version yesterday and have had the LD version since last week. I have done 6 racquets and the main advantage I am finding out is that the crosses are coming out literally untouched - no friction with the mains.

My original cross stringing method was purely traditional - nothing home to write about, and used to take time. With the tool, it is as easy as inserting the string at one end and practically, you are done with the cross. Very quick.

Yeah pulling the string through the tool saves alot of time, and as you say protects the mains. What strings have you used for the 6 rackets? Any poly or nat gut?

Do you use the short channel of the tool for the first 2 crosses and then turn the tool around, or do what i do and hand weave the first 2 crosses and then use the long channel for the rest of the mains?

 

[1012007]

Not yet. They should arrive tomorrow or the day after. I probably won't get a chance to string until Friday or Saturday but will chime in with my two cents. I know there were issues with some racquets (Mark specifically mentioned Head) that required "trimming" of the combs, which has already been done to mine -- whatever that actually entails.

Yeah, i got an email about the "trimming" of the comb. I can forward it to you if you want, pm/email me wiv your email addy

 

[bsardana]

Yeah pulling the string through the tool saves alot of time, and as you say protects the mains. What strings have you used for the 6 rackets? Any poly or nat gut?

Do you use the short channel of the tool for the first 2 crosses and then turn the tool around, or do what i do and hand weave the first 2 crosses and then use the long channel for the rest of the mains?

Mostly synthetics and multis but no natural gut for the crosses. The tool takes a bit to get used to and you'll have to find your most efficient pattern. The pattern that is working for me is to go over the first main (from 2nd cross onwards, no work required after inserting in the grommet), insert the string in the tool, pull at the other end, go under the last main, through the grommet and pull. I'll have to further experiment if going under the 1st main is more efficient. I have not tried it yet!

 

[1012007]

Going over the 1st main is definitely easier, even if you just think about it, your just placing the string in the tool as if the string isnt there.

If you want to go under the first main, just move the tool in the direction you are planning to weave, before securing the tool onto the mains.

 

[JamesBond]

Going over the 1st main is definitely easier, even if you just think about it, your just placing the string in the tool as if the string isnt there.
If you want to go under the first main, just move the tool in the direction you are planning to weave, before securing the tool onto the mains.

I have just strung up a couple of Wilson 95 sq.in frames, with a tight string pattern : 18 x 20 (tie-off last cross on 4th last cross,
I had previously shortened the HD comb by 3mm (about 1/8th of an inch) on each side to be able to string a Dunlop A.100 16x19 and am glad that I did so because the original size HD comb would be too long to fit inside the 9th main on each side.

The only problem I had, on the first stick was that I started the crosses going over the 1st main (as with the 16 main string patterns). It's not the best way, in fact the 18 mains means that we have 1 extra main on each side, so to be able to string with the same easy method by going over the 1st main for a 16 M.S. pattern, you have to start under the 1st main, then over the 2nd and into the cross-stringer tool for the 3rd.

It makes sense once you see how it works, but unless you try it then you won't find the problem.

Therefore, start weaving in the crosses, by pushing the cross-stringer towards the cross-string (in the opposite direstion of the threading of the string) :

> for 16 mains : feed the cross through the grommet > over the 1st main > into the tool

> for 18 mains : feed the cross through the grommet > under the 1st main > over the 2nd main > into the tool

Hope this can make it even easier for you to use, for me it's completely under control, I use it evry time now, great stuff. . .
JB

 

[scotus]

I have used the cross stringer a couple of times.

Strangely enough, it works better with Babolat VS gut mains than with poly mains.

While the gut mains are not affected at all by the force exerted by the cross stringers, the poly mains (Tecnifibre Black Code 18 g) got all nicked and notched when pressed and pulled by the Cross Stringer.

Of course, the Cross Stringer is really easy on the crosses.

However, I have not been able to use it to string the last three crosses. The comb is just too long for that.

 

[Ronaldo]

I have used the cross stringer a couple of times.

Strangely enough, it works better with Babolat VS gut mains than with poly mains.

While the gut mains are not affected at all by the force exerted by the cross stringers, the poly mains (Tecnifibre Black Code 18 g) got all nicked and notched when pressed and pulled by the Cross Stringer.

Of course, the Cross Stringer is really easy on the crosses.

However, I have not been able to use it to string the last three crosses. The comb is just too long for that.

Does it speed up your stringing?

 

[scotus]

Does it speed up your stringing?

So far, no.

Partly it is because I am not used to this gadget.

And if you are an experienced stringer, I doubt it will save you any time. (See YuLitle videos. The guy weaves a cross in 2-3 seconds)

Where this thing shines is when you are dealing with very fragile strings like Global Natural Gut. And if you are dealing with some nasty stubborn polys, then this will come in handy. But with polys, remember what I said about the nicks it will put on the mains.

When you push the string into one end of the Cross Stringer, it comes out the other end in under 2 seconds. But you also need to weave it through the first and last mains making sure you are not misweaving at those points). And you also need to move and reset the tool for each cross.

So I seriously doubt it will save much time except for novices who need 2-3 minutes just to weave a single cross.

 

[Ronaldo]

scotus, how much must you lower the tension on the crosses to compensate for this tool?

 

[scotus]

scotus, how much must you lower the tension on the crosses to compensate for this tool?

I do not lower at all.

I use the tool for weaving. After pulling the string all the way through by hand, I release the string from the tool (reintroducing the friction applied by the mains). And then I tension it.

This way I do not have to try to figure out the "new tension".

 

[JamesBond]

I have just strung up a couple of Wilson 95 sq.in frames, with a tight string pattern : 18 x 20 (tie-off last cross on 4th last cross,
I had previously shortened the HD comb by 3mm (about 1/8th of an inch) on each side to be able to string a Dunlop A.100 16x19 and am glad that I did so because the original size HD comb would be too long to fit inside the 9th main on each side.
JB

Following my experiences with a few different frames when using the SW Cross-stringer tools in both HD and LD string patterns where I found that the white Delrin combs were a little too long, I have received the following information about the SW cross-stringers.

SW has made some changes to their tools out of the first series :

> They offer a 14 slot HD comb specially for very high density racquets with mid size frames and 18*20 string patterns

> The LD comb has been shortened by 3 mm on each side to make it more suitable for higher density 16x19 frames.

I had made these modifications on the original combs and have been using them successfully for more than a month without ever encountering another problem with any of the racquets strung.

Even if it was a minor problem, it's reassuring that SW has reacted quickly (only 14 days) and has rectified the combs as soon as they became aware the necessity to do so.
JB

 

[Il Mostro]

You know, I have both of these tools and I never get around to trying them. For whatever reason, I just cannot get into them at all. I open the box, look at the tools, close the box and go back to my usual push weaving.

I will give them a try when the mood strikes me and, if things run true to form, probably kick myself for not using them sooner.

 

[Lakers4Life]

^^^Procrastination...or is that just SEX in the brain?

I'm interested in your review of the Stringing tool

 

[Il Mostro]

Maybe a little of both. ;-)

 

[hyogen]

haha, tha'ts pretty cool

 

[000KFACTOR90000]

Following my experiences with a few different frames when using the SW Cross-stringer tools in both HD and LD string patterns where I found that the white Delrin combs were a little too long, I have received the following information about the SW cross-stringers.

SW has made some changes to their tools out of the first series :

> They offer a 14 slot HD comb specially for very high density racquets with mid size frames and 18*20 string patterns

> The LD comb has been shortened by 3 mm on each side to make it more suitable for higher density 16x19 frames.

I had made these modifications on the original combs and have been using them successfully for more than a month without ever encountering another problem with any of the racquets strung.

Even if it was a minor problem, it's reassuring that SW has reacted quickly (only 14 days) and has rectified the combs as soon as they became aware the necessity to do so.
JB

Could someone please post the measurement of the old vs new ld comb size so I can check which one SW sent me (outside US)?

Thanks guys

 

[1012007]

A bit of a late response, but the old comb was 195mm however the new one will be 3mm shorter each side so the new one is 189mm

Has anyone had any problems on any rackets at all?

 

[1012007]

I saw that SW added an extra comb for their High Density cross stringer so that the HD version can be used for very high density string patterns. Did anybody use the HD tool on HD patterns for Wilson and Head rackets?

They offer the set, the comb and the second cross stringer for a special discounted price at the moment.

Because I have the LD version I am thinking about buying the HD including the comb for the discounted price.
I would like to know if people think it would be worth buying 2 tools? Does anyone own 2, or own 1 and doesnt want 2 buy a 2nd

 

[scotus]

I own 2. I don't use either.

Unless I am installing cheap guts on the cross, I won't be using them.

 

[1012007]

May I ask, why did you buy 2 and then decide not to use them. Surely after the first one you could of made a judgment.
How come you dont like the tools?

 

[Il Mostro]

I own 2. I don't use either.

Unless I am installing cheap guts on the cross, I won't be using them.

Me too -- I thought I was the only one! I gone as far as setting the comb up on the strings, before saying "%$#&-it" and weave my crosses the usual way. Try as I might, I just cannot get into these things. I m sure I will get around to using them one of these days.

 

[Il Mostro]

May I ask, why did you buy 2 and then decide not to use them. Surely after the first one you could of made a judgment.
How come you dont like the tools?

In my case they came as a set with one each for different string pattern density.