Lew Hoad-A discussion on his career

Dedans Penthouse said:

Listening to Lew Hoad play the haunting opening to Edvard Grieg's "Solveig's Song" (from Peer Gynt) was as chilling as a fine cuvée de prestige on ice.

Nice hi-jack btw!​

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Dan Lobb said:

Hoad was a great jazz fan, a friend of Frank Sinatra, Louis Armstrong, Ella Fitzgerald, Stan Getz. Hoad would have enjoyed the jazz sections in the Ravel G major concerto above with Yuja Wang. Hoad himself could have picked up an instrument and joined into this jam session with Yuja Wang,

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Dan Lobb said:

Here is Hoad deep into a jam session, Louis Armstrong strumming the tennis racquet.

http://www.keypix.de:8080/Keystone/showImage.jsf?fileName=5590768.jpg

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pc1 said:

There was a (ahem) discussion in another thread here in which there was a discussion on GOAT candidates. I figured I've look up some opinions by tennis experts on how they rank the greats. Bear in mind that some of the rankings are from many years ago.

Allison Danzig-1. Tilden 2. Cochet 3.Budge 4. Lacoste 5. Kramer 6. Perry 7. Johnston 8. Laver 9. Vines 10. Gonzalez and Emerson

Harry Hopman-1. Tilden 2. Budge 3. Perry 4. Laver 5. Cochet 6. Lacoste 7. Johnston 8. HL Doherty 9. Vines 10. Gonzalez and Emerson

Lance Tingay 1. Tilden 2. Budge 3. Laver 4. Gonzalez 5. Hoad 6. Perry 7. Cochet 8. Wilding 9. HL Doherty 10. W. Renshaw.

Bud Collins picked (from my memory) Laver, Sampras, Borg, Gonzalez and Tilden I believe a few years ago.

Tony Trabert picked Laver as number one but I think Jack Kramer was up there also.

Vic Braden picks Jack Kramer as the best he had ever seen.

Arthur Ashe in the early 1980's picked Borg as best he had seen but also wrote Gonzalez and Laver were there with Borg.

Jack Kramer picked Budge, Vines as the two best with Budge as the day in and day out best but also in tier 1 was Tilden, Perry, Riggs and Gonzalez.

In the second echelon was Laver, Hoad, Rosewall, von Cramm, Schroeder, Crawford, Segura, Sedgman, Trabert, Newcombe, Ashe and Smith. He also wrote Nuskse but I think he means Nastase. He ends with Borg and Connors who since they were active were able to move to the first group.

Ellsworth Vines in his book picked the best after WW II and that was 1. Budge 2. Kramer 3. Gonzalez 4. Laver 5. Segura 6. Riggs 7. Rosewall 8. Hoad 9. Sedgman 10. Trabert. He didn't pick Borg and Connors yet since they were still active I believe.

Vines picked Tilden, Borg, Laver, Budge and Kramer in an interview a few years later in the mid 1980's. I was surprised he forgot about Gonzalez who he picked over Laver in his book but perhaps it was just a slip.

Don Budge picked Kramer, Gonzalez and Laver with Kramer number one.

Gene Mako picked Tilden, Vines, Perry, Budge, Kramer, Hoad, Borg and McEnroe

Bob Falkenburg picked Tilden, Budge, Vines, Kramer and Laver

Nastase picked Borg

Perry picked Tilden before WWII and Laver after WWII. I think he picked Tilden overall.

Paul Metzler picked Kramer

Gene Scott picked Laver

Laver picked Hoad or Rosewall as his toughest opponent depending on the interview.

Tony Trabert picked Laver

John Newcombe picked Laver

Mark Cox picked McEnroe, Borg, Connors, Laver and Rosewall

Agassi used to pick Sampras as the best he played but recently he picked Federer

Nadal picks Federer

Peter Bodo picks Laver

All choices by knowledgeable tennis people.

Of all the choices Kramer is the only one who picks Ted Schroeder as one of the all time greats. That struck me as unusual.

Also interesting was the choice of Bill Johnston by a number of experts. It just shows how respected he was.

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pc1 said:

Dan,

Thought you may want to see this article.

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2001/jul/01/tennis.theobserver1

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pc1 said:

Guys obviously there are a huge (ahem) difference of opinion on what to make of the Great Lew Hoad. I'm of the opinion that Lew Hoad is one of the great players and perhaps the most talented player of all time, with the key word perhaps here because others can be included in the discussion. Please discuss.

And yes I am doing this because of the disagreement but also because I do believe Hoad should be discussed here because at the very worst he is an interesting and super fascinating figure in the history of tennis. He had been called the GOAT to vastly overrated. Many feel at his best he was unbeatable but because of his style he could also lose to anyone when he was somewhat off.

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Dan Lobb said:

At Roland Garros in 1958, Hoad led Rosewall in the final, but wrenched his back reaching for a ball.
The "US Pro" was not a major event by any standard.
Wembley did not rate inclusion in the top 14 designated tournaments for 1959.

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George K said:

Lobb, You mist be kidding. Of all the pro Tournaments in the history of Pro Tennis, the US Pro was the one held almost every year. Wembley by contrast wasn't held every year, nor was the French Pro or the Australian Pro. Comparing to the 4 grand slam majors of the amateur era and from 1968 the open era, the pro slams equate as follows up until 1967:

Most prestigious: US Pro / Wimbledon
Second most prestigious: Wembley / US Open
Third most prestigious: French Pro / French Open
Fourth: Australian Pro /Australian Open
Fifth: Kramer's Tournament of Champions / Masters or previously WCT final

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George K said:

Ahem .... Talented and the greatest isn't the same thing .... Hoad was NEVER world number one. The general consensus among those who saw him was that when he was ON, he could beat anybody. Gonzales respected him, saying that Hoad was the only player who could beat him even when he (Gonzales) was playing his best. The problem was that Hoad wasn't always as motivated as he could have been. So while Hoad had the potential to be the greatest ever who played with a wood racket, he never fulfilled that potential. Additionally, back problems also interfered.

Kodes? You've got to be kidding! He himself said that if Richey hadn't choked and lost to Franulovic, he would never have won the 1970 French Open. His 1973 Wimbledon win was the boycott year when over 90% of the top players didn't show up .... about the equivalent of winning a very minor tournament. That leaves the 1971 French Open as his only real major win. What can be said of Kodes, was that he was a fine player, who never beat himself and made the most of his opportunities: finalist 1971 US Open, semi finalist 1972 Wimbledon, finalist 1973 US Open.

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Dan Lobb said:

Check the other threads on the 1959 season, the greatest season ever in pro tennis. Hoad was the most consistent player that year, and when healthy, the most consistent and dominant in 1958 as well.
You are buying into one of the great myths of tennis history.

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pc1 said:

You're convinced me on the excellence of that season. I was skeptical at first but I believe now.

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Dan Lobb said:

Thanks to Krosero for his superb research on that incredible year, when about six of the all-time greats played their best tennis.

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Dan Lobb said:

Thanks to Krosero for his superb research on that incredible year, when about six of the all-time greats played their best tennis.

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George K said:

I beg to differ, no two athletes are EVER at the same points in their careers: Gonzales was born in May 1928 and had already been world #1 for 4 years (1954 - 57). Hoad was born in November 1934, some 6.5 years later. When they played each other in 1958/59, Gonzales was 31, when most athletic careers are winding down.

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Dan Lobb said:

Here is a fascinating look at Hoad's early days in Sydney (Glebe).
Interesting story of how he flattened the school bully...he later became a serious amateur boxer.

http://www.glebesociety.org.au/wordpress/?person=lewis-lew-hoad

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George K said:

Well, if he trained as a boxer .... I guess that certainly makes him the greatest tennis player of all time.

After all, Federer,Sampras, Laver, Gonzales, Kramer, Budge and Tilden never boxed as far as I know.

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Dan Lobb said:

Gonzales was a skilled pugilist...according to Arthur Ashe, he could knock out a "heavy" with one punch.
Hoad allegedly picked up a chair with an obnoxious heckler by the front legs, warned him to "Shut the*******up" and then dropped the chair.
Also, Hoad apparently had a physical confrontation with Gonzales in a locker room...

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pc1 said:

They talk about the physicality of today's tennis. I guess Hoad and Gonzalez took that to another level. LOL.

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Dan Lobb said:

Today's mild and wimped out bunch would look for the nearest table to hide under if Hoad or Gonzales came into the bar.

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Dan Lobb said:

Today's mild and wimped out bunch would look for the nearest table to hide under if Hoad or Gonzales came into the bar.

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Dan Lobb said:

And that would translate onto the tennis court.

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Dan Lobb said:

Here is some good footage of Hoad playing against Roche in about 1962, Roche having won the Australian Harcourt that year at age 17, just as Hoad did.

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NonP said:

If you have the old Friedman recordings on Pearl or other labels you should replace them with the more recent Naxos cycle (available only individually, alas--some of them are out of print but can be obtained easily on Amazon) whose remasterings by Ward Marston are generally considered to boast the best sound. Ditto the Lhevinne recordings. OTOH Lipatti's discography (like Michelangeli's) has been such a disgraceful mess I've stopped trying to supplement my collection until they finally come out with a definitive box set a la the recent Gould/Rubinstein/Cortot/Callas/Bream/fill-in-the-blank ones.

I must say I'm not too familiar with Backhaus' performances. He and Serkin are the two big names (among pianists) I should investigate more.

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Dan Lobb said:

Here is some good footage of Hoad playing against Roche in about 1962, Roche having won the Australian Harcourt that year at age 17, just as Hoad did.

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krosero said:

For you Dan, all the know Hoad-Gonzalez meetings in '59

Victorian Championships in Melbourne (January 14)
Gonzalez d. Hoad 8-6, 6-2, 6-3 in semis (Ampol WS)

Canberra (January 17)
Gonzalez d. Hoad 6-8, 8-6, 6-4

Queensland Pro Champs in Brisbane (January 24)
Gonzalez d. Hoad in third place match, score unknown (Ampol WS)

NSW Pro Champs in Sydney (February 5)
Gonzalez d. Hoad 15-13, 6-4, 6-4 in semis (Ampol WS)

Honolulu (Feb. 17)
Hoad d. Gonzalez 6-4, 6-1

Feb. 21 in San Francisco
Gonzalez d. Hoad 6-4, 6-2 (WS)

Feb. 23 in Los Angeles
Hoad d. Gonzalez 6-4, 9-7 (WS)

March 1 in New York City
Hoad d. Gonzalez 4-6, 12-10, 6-4 (WS)

March 3 in Montreal
Hoad d. Gonzalez 6-3, 6-4 (WS)

March 6 in Washington, DC
Gonzalez d. Hoad 18-16, 2-6, 6-4 (WS)

March 7 in Chicago
Gonzalez d. Hoad 3-6, 6-4, 6-2

March 8 in Chicago
Gonzalez d. Hoad 6-4, 0-6, 6-4

March 9 in Boston
Hoad d. Gonzalez 4-6, 6-3, 6-4

March 10 in Boston
Hoad d. Gonzalez 6-2, 4-6, 6-4

March 12 in Detroit
Gonzalez d. Hoad 4-6, 6-3, 6-2

March 15 in Louisville
Hoad d. Gonzalez 6-4, 6-3 (WS)

March 17 in Kansas City
Hoad d. Gonzalez 6-4, 6-4 (WS)

March 20 in Dallas
Hoad d. Gonzalez 6-1, 3-6, 8-6 (WS)

March 22 in Houston at River Oaks
Gonzalez d. Hoad 7-5, 6-4 (WS)

March 26 in Miami Beach Auditorium
Hoad d. Gonzalez 6-3, 6-4 (WS)

March 29 in Palm Beach at Everglades Club
Gonzalez d. Hoad 6-2, 1-6, 6-3 (WS)

April 2 in Charlotte
Hoad d. Gonzalez 10-8, 10-12, 6-2 (WS)

April 8 in Schenectady
Hoad d. Gonzalez 6-2, 4-6, 7-5 (WS)

April 14 in Princeton
Gonzalez d. Hoad 14-12, 6-3 (WS)

April 16 in White Plains
Hoad d. Gonzalez 6-4, 6-2 (WS)

April 18 in Teaneck
Hoad d. Gonzalez 6-3, 3-6, 6-3 (WS)

April 22 in New Castle, PA
Hoad d. Gonzalez 6-3, 6-3 (WS)

Cleveland World Pro (April 26)
Gonzalez d. Hoad 6-4, 6-2, 6-4 in final

April 29 in Minneapolis
Hoad d. Gonzalez 6-3, 3-6, 7-5 (WS)

May 2 in Milwaukee
Gonzalez d. Hoad 6-3, 7-5 (WS)

May 7 in Denver
Gonzalez d. Hoad 6-4, 7-5 (WS)

May 10 in Salt Lake City
Gonzalez d. Hoad 6-4, 6-3 (WS)

May 14 in Vancouver
Gonzalez d. Hoad 6-3, 6-4 (WS)

May 16 in Seattle
Gonzalez d. Hoad 6-4, 10-8 (WS)

May 18 in Corvallis, OR
Hoad d. Gonzalez 6-3, 6-1 (WS)

May 21 in Palo Alto
Gonzalez d. Hoad 3-6, 6-4, 9-7 (WS)

May 24 in Santa Barbara
Hoad d. Gonzalez 11-9, 6-3 (WS)

May 27 in Phoenix
Gonzalez d. Hoad 10-8, 7-5 (WS)

May 31 in La Jolla
Gonzalez d. Hoad 6-3, 14-12 (WS)

Masters Round Robin in LA (June 6)
Gonzalez d. Hoad 11-9, 10-8 (Ampol WS)

Forest Hills TOC (June 29)
Hoad d. Gonzalez 6-1, 5-7, 6-2, 6-1 in the final (Ampol WS)

Memphis (July 2)
Hoad d. Gonzalez in final, unknown score

Perth Round Robin (November 30)
Hoad d. Gonzalez 7-9, 6-4, 12-10 (Ampol WS)

South Australian Round Robin in Adelaide (December 4)
Hoad d. Gonzalez 6-4, 6-0 (Ampol WS)

NSW Pro Champs in Sydney (December 13)
Gonzalez d. Hoad 11-9, 6-1, 6-1 in the final (Ampol WS)

http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/inde...-series-gonzalez-hoad-cooper-anderson.554770/

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Dan Lobb said:

We have newspaper reports, including the London Times, that the hth for Hoad/Gonzales was 21 to 20, in Hoad's favour, as of the Forest Hills final. That would make it 24 to 21 for the whole schedule, with the three additional wins for Hoad above. There must have been additional Gonzales wins to make it 24 to 23.

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Dan Lobb said:

I recounted your list, Krosero, and I see 23 wins for Gonzales, so there must have been a recount in December for that final 24-23 tally.

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Dan Lobb said:

Here is some good footage of Hoad playing against Roche in about 1962, Roche having won the Australian Harcourt that year at age 17, just as Hoad did.

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Dan Lobb said:

A Canadian-trained pianist here plays a nicely-nuanced performance of the Ravel G major with Charles Dutoit, long-time conductor of the Montreal Symphony,

My wife and I have heard Yuja Wang play several piano concertos in Toronto. After one performance, I had some business to attend to with one of the orchestra musicians, and I was standing talking about two or three feet from the pianist, unfortunately I had absolutely no excuse to get an autograph.

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Missed both of my planned concerts last weekend so decided to compensate with one last nite [before my trip] despite being REALLY pressed for time. Apparently the China National Centre for the Performing Arts Orchestra was doing their first tour of North America and they must have pulled out some stops to get on board Yuja Wang, one of the latest piano hotshots, as I see that she's putting in three consecutive appearances with them, this one at the Kennedy Center being the second, with the Ravel Piano Concerto (for two hands, not one) as the showpiece.

Now for those of you in the dark, Wang has cultivated her brand not only thanks to her digital prowess on the 88 but also to her eye-catching wardrobe, which tends towards the skimpy side. And on both fronts she didn't disappoint: a glittering blue frock with see-through laces to accentuate her gams, drawing amused chuckles from the audience members both male and female, to which she acknowledged her obliviousness with a swift 1-2 crunch of a bow befitting a chirpy tomboy, and then with a predictably fearless dispatch of the concerto's formidable difficulties. The crowd broke into applause at the end of the first movement, a not-so-rare occurrence in a good Ravel Concerto, and this time with justification.

Still, having recently heard this very warhorse played live at Wolf Trap by the peerless Jean-Yves Thibaudet (who himself boasted an outfit that would have made Liberace proud) and also by a friend of a friend in a fine student recital, I couldn't help but miss the last ounce of filigree that informs the very best Ravel performances. The poor acoustics didn't help, as the piano was often drowned by the orchestra particularly in the rowdiest jazzy passages. And neither did the flute and piccolo, which at least in two instances turned harsh.

The intermission was followed by Dvorak's 8th Symphony, which was pretty much a repeat of the concerto: the dreaded good-but-not-great variety. It seemed the youthful orchestra (if there was anyone past midlife crisis I didn't see him/her) was sometimes playing catch-up with the veteran conductor Lu Jia. This tour might have been an attempt at cultural hegemony masquerading as a harmless "exchange," but fear not, my dear Yankees, I can report with confidence that our time has not passed!

The cultural ambassadors treated us to two encores, a Rossini overture (I think--had to take a quick phone call outside) and a Chinese folk song arrangement. Those of us that remained gave both enthusiastic thumbs-up. May the exchange continue, with no unwarranted expectations on both sides.

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Dan Lobb said:

Here is the 1939 Backhaus/Bohm performance of the Brahms 2, with the Saxon State Orchestra (now Dresden Staatskapelle) notice the great similarity of the piano chords at about 1:15 to Richter's 1960 account...like a rocket taking off.
Backhaus, as a young prodigy pianist, met Brahms and played for Brahms. Brahms encouraged the young Backhaus to play this work, and Backhaus heard Brahms conduct this concerto live. This is the most authentic recording we have....indeed, given Backhaus' extraordinary achievement here, the definitive recording.

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NonP said:

I actually heard Wang play the very concerto about a year ago and posted the following review on FB afterward (account since inactivated, but temporarily brought back for exhumation):



I'm afraid that YT clip doesn't supersede my initial impression of her take on the Ravel crowd-pleaser.



Thanks for the referral, and yes, Backhaus' account is indeed an exemplary one. But I can't second you on the "definitive"ness of the recording. Most of the so-called authentic performance is little more than shoddy scholarship passed off as revelatory epiphany. Listen to any of the fin de siecle masters' own recordings and you'll see countless examples of them tinkering with the score (often their own) as they saw fit. Quite often the simplest approach is the best: when it sounds good, it is good.

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Dan Lobb said:

Hoad had the most range of shots of any player, using a sawed-off racquet and wrist action to change shots at the last possible split second.
Sometimes he could not choose himself what to hit,

http://www.10sballs.com/2016/02/11/lew-hoad-profile-by-richard-evans/

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Dan Lobb said:

Here is priceless footage of the tennis twins winning the doubles final at Roland Garros in 1953, what amazing shot makers those two teenage whiz kids were.

http://www.ina.fr/video/CAF95051381

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Dan Lobb said:

Here is a recent interview with Rosewall where he discusses how and from whom he got his nickname "Muscles".

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-01-...s-on-sidelines-brisbane-international/7070418

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Dan Lobb said:

Here is a recent interview with Rosewall where he discusses how and from whom he got his nickname "Muscles".

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-01-...s-on-sidelines-brisbane-international/7070418

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Dan Lobb said:

Here is a recent interview with Rosewall where he discusses how and from whom he got his nickname "Muscles".

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-01-...s-on-sidelines-brisbane-international/7070418

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Dan Lobb said:

Here is a recent interview with Rosewall where he discusses how and from whom he got his nickname "Muscles".

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-01-...s-on-sidelines-brisbane-international/7070418

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pc1 said:

Dan, while I enjoy grass court tennis sometimes matches on grass can be snoozefest. Big serve, no return. Big serve, one volley and the point is over. Big serve, overhead smash.

What's great about grass court tennis is the subtleties of playing the game. Obviously more volleying, players change their stroking style for the grass. More half volleys and different types of returns.

I think a lot of the tennis establishment wanted to see the longer rallies that they have today for great casual fan interest.

I think that grass court tennis improves a player's game in that they have to learn another way to play.

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pc1 said:

Yes I agree with that also. I saw a rally a few years ago between Djokovic and Nadal. It may have been at the US Open. It was a very long rally and the commentators with their usual hyperbole called it one of the greatest rallies ever. I thought that no one tried to do anything with the ball. It was no big deal. It wasn't much different in my mind that a Solomon and Dibbs rally.

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pc1 said:

Yes I agree with that also. I saw a rally a few years ago between Djokovic and Nadal. It may have been at the US Open. It was a very long rally and the commentators with their usual hyperbole called it one of the greatest rallies ever. I thought that no one tried to do anything with the ball. It was no big deal. It wasn't much different in my mind that a Solomon and Dibbs rally.

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NatF said:

I remember that rally. I hated it. Just lots of cross court and down the middle shots.

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