What is the matter with Murray?

Mainad · Apr 21, 2017

Murray comments on his present form and the elbow injury he's been battling to overcome:

http://www.atpworldtour.com/en/news/murray-monte-carlo-2017-thursday-reaction

Djokovic2011 · Apr 21, 2017

6-3 6-0 said:
Sort of like Djokovic since late 2014, no?

QUOTE]
Nope, nothing like it. The difference is Djokovic was in his late twenties and supposed to be dominating . Federer's in his mid 30s and should probably be retired by now . Big difference

6-3 6-0 · Apr 21, 2017

Djokovic2011 said:
Nope, nothing like it. The difference is Djokovic was in his late twenties and supposed to be dominating . Federer's in his mid 30s and should probably be retired by now . Big difference

Exactly my point and why Federer's 2017 has been impressive so far considering his "rivals" (who aren't even of his generation) are 5-6 years younger

Djokovic2011 · Apr 21, 2017

@6-3 6-0: But at least Djokovic had a strong Federer to contend with, unlike Roger so far in 2017 due to Novak's dreaded "29 decline". The way I see it, you're more fortunate to be winning big titles if you're older and the dominant player of recent years has started to fade than if you're younger and still being challenged by an older guy who's arguably the greatest player ever.

6-3 6-0 · Apr 21, 2017

Djokovic2011 said:
@6-3 6-0: But at least Djokovic had a strong Federer to contend with, unlike Roger so far in 2017 due to Novak's dreaded "29 decline". The way I see it, you're more fortunate to be winning big titles if you're older and the dominant player of recent years has started to fade than if you're younger and still being challenged by an older guy who's arguably the greatest player ever.

You're correct but isn't that more on Novak than Roger himself? Fed was 32-33 in 2014 (turned 33 in Aug) whereas Djokovic is 29-30 this year (will turn 30 in May) and Fed is 35-36 this year (will turn 36 in Aug). Also unlike Djokovic at that time, Fed isn't in his prime either. He already had his era of domination back in the 2000's when he was in the 20's. Its the same analogy one Nadal fan was using few days back by saying Fed's wins doesn't count since he didn't beat "real" (prime) Nadal this year which is obviously true but ignoring the fact that Fed farther away from his prime than Nadal was from his and being on the tour shorter than the former

Djokovic2011 · Apr 21, 2017

@6-3 6-0: You're right that Federer of 2014-15 was older than Djokovic is now but the bottom line is he was playing at a higher level back then than Novak is this year so I don't really think age comes into it. Plus we all know Roger's a freak of nature anyway - I mean look what he's managed to achieve in 2017 so far!

Rebel-I.N.S · Apr 21, 2017

Mainad said:
He has admitted himself that it might be a factor.

Being a Murray fan has always been something of a rollercoaster ride. We enjoyed some truly great moments last year (and in the years previous). All we can do is sit back and hope we can enjoy some more before he's done!

IMO, Murray just has to win four tournaments -

Aus Open
Indian Wells
Monte Carlo
French Open

If he wins these, we really cannot ask anymore of him - Murray will have solidified himself as an ATG.

6-3 6-0 · Apr 21, 2017

Rebel-I.N.S said:
IMO, Murray just has to win four tournaments -

Aus Open
Indian Wells
Monte Carlo
French Open

If he wins these, we really cannot ask anymore of him - Murray will have solidified himself as an ATG.

If he wins the bolded ones, he'll accomplish something that no one since 1990 has been able to i.e. to win all available masters atleast once.
IMO the two remaining slams are more difficult and will add to his legacy a lot more than the masters would and if he can maintain the #1 (now or later if he achieves it again) he'll be a very good contender for ATG.

Mainad · Apr 21, 2017

Rebel-I.N.S said:
IMO, Murray just has to win four tournaments -

Aus Open
Indian Wells
Monte Carlo
French Open

If he wins these, we really cannot ask anymore of him - Murray will have solidified himself as an ATG.

So...no pressure then?

But does he really have to do a clean sweep of all the Slams and all the Masters to qualify? After all, no other player has managed to accomplish that yet?

Rebel-I.N.S · Apr 21, 2017

Mainad said:
So...no pressure then?

But does he really have to do a clean sweep of all the Slams and all the Masters to qualify? After all, no other player has managed to accomplish that yet?

Arguably, he is there already.

However, I'm anxious for Murray to steal a march on the rest of the big 4 qnd carve out some history of his own.

And btw, it's totally doable (even if this uear is pretty much a write off).

Barring a catastrophic series of events, I give the Muzziah a three to four year window.

SLD76 · Apr 21, 2017

Injured, old,married with a kid

cc0509 · Apr 21, 2017

10sfreak319 said:
Older Federer managed to keep up with Djokovic and really went the distance with him. Nadal was not out-of-sorts. He won a slam that Novak was poised to win and beat him in the finals.

Murray was recovering from surgery, so that I would let slide. Young guns came out in '15.

Therefore, you are wrong on all accounts.

You said it: Older Federer managed to "keep up with" Djokovic but he was still trying to outgrind Djokovic from baseline in their best of five matches. He wasn't employing the more aggressive tactics he has been in 2017. Re Nadal, you are talking about his 2014 FO win over Djokovic? I said that Djokovic has been dealing with sub par Nadal "after" 2014. Nadal was a shadow of the player he was at his best from 2014-2017. Only in 2017 has he looked better. As for Murray, he was recovering from surgery for three years and that's why he was Djokovic's pigeon until Djokovic's form took a dive? Try again.

Thus I am not wrong on all accounts. I am correct that Federer in 2017 and Djokoivc from 2014 onward were dealing with the same weak field where other Big Four members were injured or not at their best and with no young guns who have stepped up. It is what it is.

db379 · Apr 22, 2017

Mainad said:
Ah, in the old days Murray actually enjoyed a positive H2H against Federer (the only player to do so apart from Nadal). Long live the old days I say!!

Right, not when it really counts... how many times has Murray beaten Fed in a slam?

Mainad said:
Murray is only just coming off an injury so try and contain your excitement at his lack of form.

Is this an excuse? Because Fed was out with injury for 6 months, and he has won the 3 biggest tournaments of the year so far. I didn't hear him complain that he hadn't played for such a long time.

Nadal was out with injury for months too, and he has been playing pretty well, although not at his best yet. Much better than baby Murray anyway, and he is not trying to find excuses!

Mainad · Apr 22, 2017

db379 said:
Is this an excuse? Because Fed was out with injury for 6 months, and he has won the 3 biggest tournaments of the year so far. I didn't hear him complain that he hadn't played for such a long time.

Nadal was out with injury for months too, and he has been playing pretty well, although not at his best yet. Much better than baby Murray anyway, and he is not trying to find excuses!

It's perfectly obvious that Fed's long absence from the tour to recover from injury re-invigorated his game. Why does that throw any doubt on Murray's current elbow injury?

db379 · Apr 23, 2017

Mainad said:
It's perfectly obvious that Fed's long absence from the tour to recover from injury re-invigorated his game. Why does that throw any doubt on Murray's current elbow injury?

You are clearly out of excuses for baby Murray. And you did not reply to my question on how many times Murray has beaten Fed in a slam... Hint: Don't think too hard on this one.

You said "Murray is only coming off an injury", and now you claim he is still injured. So which one is it?
Because it's very simple, if a player is injured he should take time off until he is fit again. If you are really injured you don't play, period!
That's what Fed and Nadal did , they took time off until they were healed and ready to play. Murray should do the same, and stop using injuries as an excuse for his poor play. No more excuses for baby Murray!

Mainad · Apr 23, 2017

db379 said:
You are clearly out of excuses for baby Murray. And you did not reply to my question on how many times Murray has beaten Fed in a slam... Hint: Don't think too hard on this one.

You said "Murray is only coming off an injury", and now you claim he is still injured. So which one is it?
Because it's very simple, if a player is injured he should take time off until he is fit again. If you are really injured you don't play, period!
That's what Fed and Nadal did , they took time off until they were healed and ready to play. Murray should do the same, and stop using injuries as an excuse for his poor play. No more excuses for baby Murray!

So you think Murray is faking his injuries? Okay. But maybe you've hit the nail on the head when you call him 'Baby Murray'. That's obviously the answer. He's still a young rookie who's yet to mature and hit his prime. Wow, just think. If he can win as much as he has and get to #1 by being 'Baby Murray', just think what he might achieve once he matures into 'Prime Murray'!!!

Newballs · Apr 23, 2017

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TheGhostOfAgassi · Apr 23, 2017

Mainad said:
So you think Murray is faking his injuries? Okay. But maybe you've hit the nail on the head when you call him 'Baby Murray'. That's obviously the answer. He's still a young rookie who's yet to mature and hit his prime. Wow, just think. If he can win as much as he has and get to #1 by being 'Baby Murray', just think what he might achieve once he matures into 'Prime Murray'!!!

Is murray injury free now?
Listened to commies when he played saying he was!? Just playing back into form?

Mainad · Apr 23, 2017

TheGhostOfAgassi said:
Is murray injury free now?
Listened to commies when he played saying he was!? Just playing back into form?

He says his elbow is feeling much better and I guess he must think so otherwise he wouldn't continue to risk playing on it. It obviously takes time to get back into the old rhythm which is why he is looking for matches by playing Barcelona.

10sfreak319 · Apr 24, 2017

cc0509 said:
You said it: Older Federer managed to "keep up with" Djokovic but he was still trying to outgrind Djokovic from baseline in their best of five matches. He wasn't employing the more aggressive tactics he has been in 2017. Re Nadal, you are talking about his 2014 FO win over Djokovic? I said that Djokovic has been dealing with sub par Nadal "after" 2014. Nadal was a shadow of the player he was at his best from 2014-2017. Only in 2017 has he looked better. As for Murray, he was recovering from surgery for three years and that's why he was Djokovic's pigeon until Djokovic's form took a dive? Try again.

Thus I am not wrong on all accounts. I am correct that Federer in 2017 and Djokoivc from 2014 onward were dealing with the same weak field where other Big Four members were injured or not at their best and with no young guns who have stepped up. It is what it is.

So Federer is trash? I don't like Fed, but he is certainly no loser. 2014-2016 Fed was quite aggressive, and 2017 Fed has been more tactical. He knows he can't keep this up for much longer.

Nadal's form took a dive in 2015-2016, but has been resurgent in 2017 so far. Sub-par Nadal won 5 titles total in 2015 and 2016. Sub-par would be making 6 or so finals, but winning 1 or 2 finals at most.

Even a fit Murray lost to Djokovic on most matches from 2015-2016. He did beat Novak in Rome 2016 and WTF 2016. Not necessarily a pigeon, but it did take him the whole of 2014 to recover. 2015 Murray was physical, but his mental game was pretty bad.

10sfreak319 · Apr 24, 2017

6-3 6-0 said:
Sort of like Djokovic since late 2014, no?

What's anomalous fact about your statement is that it is Federer (oldest of big 4 + more mileage than anyone on current tour) won the major tournaments so far and none of the younger guys were able to take advantage of. Its not like Federer is in his mid 20's and that should tell you all about the era if you're going into that

So far, other players have been quite strong since late 2014. Djokovic has had to deal with some challenging people, but Federer is seizing the day when Novak and Andy are MIA and Rafa is still close to coming back.

cc0509 · Apr 24, 2017

10sfreak319 said:
So Federer is trash? I don't like Fed, but he is certainly no loser. 2014-2016 Fed was quite aggressive, and 2017 Fed has been more tactical. He knows he can't keep this up for much longer.

Nadal's form took a dive in 2015-2016, but has been resurgent in 2017 so far. Sub-par Nadal won 5 titles total in 2015 and 2016. Sub-par would be making 6 or so finals, but winning 1 or 2 finals at most.

Even a fit Murray lost to Djokovic on most matches from 2015-2016. He did beat Novak in Rome 2016 and WTF 2016. Not necessarily a pigeon, but it did take him the whole of 2014 to recover. 2015 Murray was physical, but his mental game was pretty bad.

I didn't say Federer was a loser. I only said that post 2014 Federer was trying to outgrind Djokovic from the baseline in best of five matches which is ridiculous. If 2017 Federer was challenging that Djokovic things may have been different.

The point is the post 2014 field has been BAD. It doesn't matter if It was Djokovic to taking advantage while Nadal was awful, older Federer was trying to outgrind him on slower surfaces and Murray was his pigeon or if it's the Federer or Nadal of today who are taking advantage of an ailing Djokovic/Murray and a laughable younger field. It's the same deal.

6-3 6-0 · Apr 24, 2017

10sfreak319 said:
So far, other players have been quite strong since late 2014. Djokovic has had to deal with some challenging people, but Federer is seizing the day when Novak and Andy are MIA and Rafa is still close to coming back.

Sure and Federer is also currently dealing with the same lot who are much younger to him. Since the start of the year Djokovic and Murray missed only Miami and it is on them that they couldn't advance enough to meet Fed in the first place when they are the younger rivals, not older lol and supposed to be stopping him. You say Rafa is still close to coming back, so atleast you agree he was MIA during 2015-16 which is again contradictory to what you said earlier in your previous posts.

What is the matter with Murray?

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