jm1980
Talk Tennis Guru
Why are you kidding? Clay is not a natural surface
The red clay is made up of crushed brick and other minerals
Australian Open set to introduce a super tiebreak in the final set
- Thread starter TheAssassin
- Start date
The red clay is made up of crushed brick and other minerals
mike danny
Bionic Poster
Bigger mental battle?
Standaa
G.O.A.T.
How? I don’t see it. If anything, regular tie-break makes for a bigger mental battle because the first points are immediately more important than they are in a super TB. It’s like a TB to 3 and a TB to 100 points, with a big exaggeration. What would be a bigger mental battle? Of course the TB to 3.
Sentinel
Bionic Poster
Right. I forgot that clay isn't clay.
van_Loederen
Professional
it'll rather come down to 5-6 points on average. have you ever watched such a tiebreak? it's clearly more extensive than the regular one.
i suspect that the main reason why the race-to-7 tiebreak became the regular one is that the super tiebreak is so long that playing sets out is faster on average.
weakera
Talk Tennis Guru
He's the worst thing around the sport right now. He's a cancer.
Standaa
G.O.A.T.
But 6-5 in a super TB is basically the same as 3-2 in a regular one. There are lots of 3-2 scores in a regular tie-break.
van_Loederen
Professional
care to explain what you mean? the same it is just not.
WestboroChe
Hall of Fame
Kinda like the different formats in all tourneys. Should be fun. Give us all something to argue about. I can make a case for all the formats.https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/...in-introducing-final-set-tie-breaks-ljghwkth0
"The Australian Open has obtained permission to follow Wimbledon in shortening the potential length of matches by introducing a tie-break in the deciding set across all events.
However, in a move that perfectly sums up the lack of uniformity across the four grand slam tournaments, Australian chiefs have decided their preference is to play a “super tie-break” at 6-6, in which the player must win ten points by a margin of two.
With approval recently granted by the grand slam board, players are now being consulted to determine whether this should be introduced as soon as the 2019 tournament, which begins on January 14. It is possible that the full implementation could be delayed for another year, with only a trial taking place next month…"
We are going to have a different rule for each of the four Grand Slams.
Australian Open - Super tiebreak at 6-6
Roland Garros - No tiebreak
Wimbledon - Classic tiebreak at 12-12
US Open - Classic tiebreak at 6-6
Tennis_Hands
Banned
Im(moral) Winner
G.O.A.T.
Maybe Roddick could have won that AO had he not been tired after that marathon.
Standaa
G.O.A.T.
The players have to win 4 or 5 points respectively to win the TB.
van_Loederen
Professional
ah, that's where you got those 3 points from. anyway, the difference is 30%. that's significant.
Sudacafan
Bionic Poster
Why all this mess? The solution is easier: just ban Isner, or wait a couple of years until he retires.https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/...in-introducing-final-set-tie-breaks-ljghwkth0
"The Australian Open has obtained permission to follow Wimbledon in shortening the potential length of matches by introducing a tie-break in the deciding set across all events.
However, in a move that perfectly sums up the lack of uniformity across the four grand slam tournaments, Australian chiefs have decided their preference is to play a “super tie-break” at 6-6, in which the player must win ten points by a margin of two.
With approval recently granted by the grand slam board, players are now being consulted to determine whether this should be introduced as soon as the 2019 tournament, which begins on January 14. It is possible that the full implementation could be delayed for another year, with only a trial taking place next month…"
We are going to have a different rule for each of the four Grand Slams.
Australian Open - Super tiebreak at 6-6
Roland Garros - No tiebreak
Wimbledon - Classic tiebreak at 12-12
US Open - Classic tiebreak at 6-6
Well, actually, better just ban him. Servebots have very long careers (as Karlovic proved it), and we could not afford to have Isner more time around.
I only hope that every day is more clear the disruption that this guy has caused to our beloved sport. Very sad.
Karma Tennis
Legend
Super Tiebreaks are much better than regular 12 Point Tiebreaks.
The main problem with regular Tiebreakers is that each Tiebreak point has too high a value in relation to most other Points in a Set. There is too much at stake. If one player has a poor run of points, there is not enough point left to get back. (For example, a player who is down four or five points in a regular 12 Point Tiebreaker is highly unlikely to recover, especially if it is at the end of a long tough Set or near the end of a long tough match.)
The beauty of a Super Tiebreaker is that it's possible for a player who is four or five points behind early in the Tiebreaker to recover and get back into it. There is more room for momentum shifts in a Super Tiebreaker. And this makes them more exciting especially when deciding the Final Set of a match.
And I don't have a problem with deciding matches with a Super Tiebreaker. Professional Tennis places too much emphasis on athleticism and endurance. It is much more like Boxing these days. I would rather see a higher level of tennis play for a shorter duration. Tennis players should be competing based on their tennis skills and mental prowess rather than their athletic abilities. Shorter formats promote this.
Standaa
G.O.A.T.
If they should be competing based on their mental prowess, why don’t you support a regular TB, where each point has a bigger value, therefore the pressure is immediately bigger on both players, and their mental strength is more tested?
bjsnider
Hall of Fame
It makes sense the majors are going in this direction, given that the stars are getting older, and they'd have a better chance to win shorter, less physical matches than the standard. Maybe they'll eventually shorten to 3 sets in order to keep Federer in the game in his 40s.
Karma Tennis
Legend
Mainly because Professional Tennis is primarily an "Entertainment" rather than a true sport.
Paying spectators are required to keep the thing running. Event organisers have a responsibility to their "audience" to deliver a product that has a certain value for money. Matches that finish too quickly is not a "good look".
Karma Tennis
Legend
In 2018, playing Best of 5 Sets (with 6 game Sets) is a bit ridiculous given time constraint demands of Broadcasters an paying spectators.
I think, Best of 3 (6 game Sets) or Best of 5 (4 game Sets) would be much more entertaining and palatable.
van_Loederen
Professional
in a regular tiebreak, luck and the quality of the serve override that aspect more than in a super tiebreak.
Sysyphus
Talk Tennis Guru
Well put, I tend to agree with these points.
Having played in a lot of tournaments where a super tiebreak is used instead of a full third set for scheduling reasons, I also think that super tiebreaks feel pretty different to regular tbs from the player's perspective.
It seems a decent compromise to me: long enough that it's less fluky than a regular tb, but brief enough that you're guaranteed an intense end to the match that doesn't risk going on forever.
D
Deleted member 716271
Guest
the super tiebreak is the most ridiculous idea of them all
EloQuent
Legend
How about this: eliminate the TB for regular sets. A set that ends 6-6 is a tie. At the end of the 5 sets, if the result is a tie (eg, each player wins 2 sets with 1 tie) then you go to super TB. Or just keep going, but it will be less common.
Note that by this scoring, Anderson would have beaten Isner in 5 sets with no overtime. 6-6, 6-6, 6-6, 6-4, 6-6.
Note that by this scoring, Anderson would have beaten Isner in 5 sets with no overtime. 6-6, 6-6, 6-6, 6-4, 6-6.
Karma Tennis
Legend
van_Loederen
Professional
hmm, my concern is that it could lead to situations where for a long time the leading player would only need to hold serve
and i also sense a risk that as long as the players are still tied, the incentive to break serve is somewhat reduced.
and, exaggeratedly put, "a single tiebreak could decide the match".
still an interesting idea though.
EloQuent
Legend
A single tiebreak can still decide the match tho, in all but RG at this point. At least here it would look like a special overtime - and not be as common. If anything, incentive to break serve increases because you can't just rely on winning a TB at the end of the set. Or that's what I think will happen, who really knows? I'm not under any illusion this will actually happen, just an idea.hmm, my concern is that it could lead to situations where for a long time the leading player would only need to hold serve
and i also sense a risk that as long as the players are still tied, the incentive to break serve is somewhat reduced.
and, exaggeratedly put, "a single tiebreak could decide the match".
still an interesting idea though.
Beacon Hill
Hall of Fame
Because you can lose a point or two against your serve in a game and still hold easily. In contrast, if you lose just one point against your serve in a breaker, you can lose the breaker.
toby55555
Hall of Fame
Frightened for their own future Anderson, Querrey, Karlovic & co would join Isner and form a breakaway Exhibition of Serving Tour.
van_Loederen
Professional
i was phrasing it exaggeratedly, but in the current format the tiebreaks force a number of decisions and that would be reduced.
that might be quite a problem in competitive/sports terms.
but the format with tiebreaks means that the set will have to be decided in the end. that gives incentive to break serve.EloQuent said:
if the set wouldn't need to be decided, i assume that the incentive dropped a bit in practice. not by very much though. it is not my main point of criticism.
but pretty sure that a majority of fans would find the format without tiebreaks significantly more boring.
Sum Buddy Ells
Hall of Fame
Wish they'd BAN the 1HBH for 2019 AO
You don't want your homeboy Shapo to have a career?
Sum Buddy Ells
Hall of Fame
Actually this does sound like an interesting idea. My only comment here would be they should tweak the rules so that if a set does end at 6-6, the player who was serving 2nd gets the privilege of serving first the next set (as originally done with sets going to a TB).
Karma Tennis
Legend
Wish they'd BAN the 1HBH for 2019 AO
Not necessary.
Either Djokovic, Nadal, or Zverev is going to win the 2019 AO. They all have DHBHs
D
Deleted member 3771
Guest
Rothenberg brown nosing the WTA
https://www.news.com.au/sport/tenni...s/news-story/b1d68bba679fff717dccc2b37403b091
"Please, stop throwing the women under the bus because the men demand two sets of self-indulgent foreplay before their matches get anywhere."
-Ben Rothenberg
The final set super TB rule should definitely not apply to the women as they don't have a problem that needs fixing.
If the choice was whether to apply the final set super TB rule for both the men and women or not at all, I'd rather they did not apply it at all.
True Fanerer
G.O.A.T.
I agree that the women should keep things as they are since they're only playing BO3 anyway. However, I don't agree with how Rothenberg addressed the issue. Too over the top for my liking.
woodje12
Rookie
A little late but a win for common sense. I understand this upsets some self-styled purists but for the players and for a majority of fans this is welcome news. It's amazing how many people can't come grips with the fact that in MANY things in life less is indeed more (bonus points for those who are aware of or chooce to google some of the latest research on the Era of Abundance and how poorly modern humans deal with a post-scarcity world...).
Steve0904
Talk Tennis Guru
I agree with this. I draw the line at BO3 in slams and/or 4 game sets, but if I didn't know TTW so well I'd be surprised at the commotion that these TB rules are causing. It's not that big a deal really. TBs are more exciting than watching guys get to 10-10 and not be able to break serve anyway because they're gassed.
And this won't help Isner that much or at all. He'll still struggle mightily to break serve. So much so that he'll still end up tired after multiple 5 setters in a slam even with TBs.
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