If Zverev defeats Medvedev, Nadal is out of the ATP finals

Sport

G.O.A.T.
Tsitsipas is 2-0 in the ATP finals, with a perfect 4-0 in sets. Even if he loses to Nadal tomorrow, he would still be 4-2 in sets and would classify to the semifinals.

If Zverev defeats Medvedev tomorrow in 2, he would be 4-2 in sets and would classify to the semifinals, as Nadal can only be 4-3 in sets.

If Zverev defeats Medvedev in 3, he would be 4-3 in sets and would classify to the semifinals because he leads the H2H over Rafa in the tournament.


Short explanation: regardless of Rafa's result with Tsitsipas, Zverev will reach the semifinals if he defeats Medvedev.


SEMI-FINAL QUALIFYING PROCEDURE

a) Greatest number of wins;
b) Greatest number of matches played;
Comment: 2-1 won-loss record beats a 2-0 won-loss record; a 1-2 record beats a 1-0 record.
c) Head-to-head results if only two (2) players are tied,


Comment 4: 3 players have 2 wins and the other player has 0 wins. The player with 0 wins is eliminated. Of the 3 players with 2 wins, 1 player’s sets won-loss is 5-2 for 71.43%; the other 2 players both have a 4-3 record in sets for 57.14%. In this case there is 1 superior player (71.43%) and the remaining 2 players are tied; it now reverts to the head to head result of the 2 remaining players with the winning player advancing as group runner-up.

 
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TripleATeam

G.O.A.T.
Interesting. So Nadal-Tsitsipas and Thiem-Berrettini are both dead rubbers.

Tsitsipas and Thiem have also both secured #1 in their groups. Tsitsipas is at worst 4-2, Nadal is at best 4-3, and Zverev is at best 4-2. If Zverev and Tsitsipas tie, Tsitsipas wins the tie due to H2H reasons.

So Djokerer - Tsitsipas and Thiem - Nadal/Zverev semifinals.

* Tsitsipas hasn't secured #1 in his group. Zverev still has a way to get #1. But Thiem has it secured.
 
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Sport

G.O.A.T.
But Tsitsipas has 2 wins too. If three players have same W-L record, we look at their sets ratio, no?

1st criterion: number of wins.
2nd criterion: H2H if two players are tied.
3rd criterion: in three players tie, ratio of sets won and then ratio of games won.

So Tsitsipas would classify even if he loses to Nadal in 2. Tsitsipas has a better win-ratio in sets than Nadal. Tsitsipas is 2-0 in the ATP finals, with a perfect 4-0 in sets. Even if he loses in 2 to Nadal tomorrow, he would still be 4-2 in sets and would classify to the semifinals, as Nadal would be 4-3 in sets.
 
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tennis_pro

Bionic Poster
But Tsitsipas has 2 wins too. If three players have same W-L record, we look at their sets ratio, no?

Now I am totally confused...
Standings are determined by: 1) Number of wins; 2) Number of matches; 3) In two-players-ties, head-to-head results; 4) In three-players-ties, percentage of sets won, then percentage of games won, then head-to-head results; 5) ATP rankings
 

TheGhostOfAgassi

Talk Tennis Guru
Interesting. So Nadal-Tsitsipas and Thiem-Berrettini are both dead rubbers.

Tsitsipas and Thiem have also both secured #1 in their groups. Tsitsipas is at worst 4-2, Nadal is at best 4-3, and Zverev is at best 4-2. If Zverev and Tsitsipas tie, Tsitsipas wins the tie due to H2H reasons.

So Djokerer - Tsitsipas and Thiem - Nadal/Zverev semifinals.
First Novak has to beat Federer.
 

helixx

Hall of Fame
If Nadal & Medvedev win:
1 Nadal 2 Tsitsipas

If Nadal & Zverev win:
1 Tsitsipas 2 Zverev

If Tsitsipas wins & Medvedev wins in 2:
1 Tsitsipas 2 Medvedev

If Tsitsipas wins & Medvdev wins in 3:
1 Tsitsipas 2 Zverev

If Tsitsipas & Zverev win:
1 Tsitsipas 2 Zverev
 
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Aussie Darcy

Bionic Poster
What did you expect? The format of this tournament is absolutely pathetic. When Federer or Djokovic fans compare it to a slam I only want to laugh.
I mean it’s no slam since you can technically win the title with just 3 match wins but you’d still land 3 top 10 wins which is pretty good considering players like Nadal won slams without facing a top 20 player...
 

StrongRule

Talk Tennis Guru
So yeah, Nadal messed it up when he lost to Zverev. The YE#1 is not in his hands anymore. No doubt Djokovic gets it now. (undeserved)
 

RF-18

Talk Tennis Guru
Interesting. So Nadal-Tsitsipas and Thiem-Berrettini are both dead rubbers.

Tsitsipas and Thiem have also both secured #1 in their groups. Tsitsipas is at worst 4-2, Nadal is at best 4-3, and Zverev is at best 4-2. If Zverev and Tsitsipas tie, Tsitsipas wins the tie due to H2H reasons.

So Djokerer - Tsitsipas and Thiem - Nadal/Zverev semifinals.

Tsitsipas has not secured #1 place. Nadal could still top the group and play Djokovic in the SF. But he would need Medvedev to beat Zverev while Rafa beats Tsitsi.
 

Yugram

Legend
I mean it’s no slam since you can technically win the title with just 3 match wins but you’d still land 3 top 10 wins which is pretty good considering players like Nadal won slams without facing a top 20 player...
Players like Nadal lmao. What does it have to mean?
 

TripleATeam

G.O.A.T.
If Nadal & Medvedev win:
1 Nadal 2 Tsitsipas

If Nadal & Zverev win:
1 Tsitsipas 2 Zverev

If Tsitsipas wins & Medvedev wins in 2:
1 Tsitsipas 2 Medvedev

If Tsitsipas wins & Medvdev wins in 3:
1 Tsitsipas 2 Zverev

If Tsitsipas & Zverev win:
1 Tsitsipas 2 Zverev
Tsitsipas' worst case is 4-2 in sets.
Nadal's best case is 4-3 in sets.
Zverev (assuming he wins) is either 4-2 or 4-3 in sets.

It's impossible for Nadal to be ahead of Tsitsipas, regardless of Zverev-Medvedev. The only person that can get ahead of Tsitsipas is Zverev if Tsitsipas performs ridiculously poorly and Zverev demolishes Medvedev.
 

helixx

Hall of Fame
Tsitsipas' worst case is 4-2 in sets.
Nadal's best case is 4-3 in sets.
Zverev (assuming he wins) is either 4-2 or 4-3 in sets.

It's impossible for Nadal to be ahead of Tsitsipas, regardless of Zverev-Medvedev. The only person that can get ahead of Tsitsipas is Zverev if Tsitsipas performs ridiculously poorly and Zverev demolishes Medvedev.
.
 
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tennismex123

New User
No, he can't classify. Even if he defeats Zverev in 2, he would have a losing H2H with Rafa.
Yes but there would be a triple tie... Let´s say Nadal loses against Tsitsipas in 3 and Medvedev wins in 2. Sets would be
Nadal 3/5
Zverev 2/4
Medvedev 3/4

Medvedev in this case is classified or I´m wrong?
 

TripleATeam

G.O.A.T.
Tsitsipas has not secured #1 place. Nadal could still top the group and play Djokovic in the SF. But he would need Medvedev to beat Zverev while Rafa beats Tsitsi.
You're right, now that I consider my math, but not for the reason you think. Zverev is the only player that can dethrone Tsitsipas. Nadal's best case scenario is 4-3 in sets, Tsitsipas' worst is 4-2 in sets. Nadal can't get ahead of him.
 

Sport

G.O.A.T.
Yes but there would be a triple tie... Let´s say Nadal loses against Tsitsipas in 3 and Medvedev wins in 2. Sets would be
Nadal 3/5
Zverev 2/4
Medvedev 3/4

Medvedev in this case is classified or I´m wrong?
Right. Medvedev can classify if 1) he defeats Zverev in 2 sets and 2) Nadal loses to Tsitsipas.
 

TripleATeam

G.O.A.T.
Yes but there would be a triple tie... Let´s say Nadal loses against Tsitsipas in 3 and Medvedev wins in 2. Sets would be
Nadal 3/5
Zverev 2/4
Medvedev 3/4

Medvedev in this case is classified or I´m wrong?
You're right. Damn, there's a lot of possibilities.
 

TennisFan3

Talk Tennis Guru
I think Djokovic gets the YE #1 now. If Zverev beats Medvedev (the likely outcome), Nadal is OUT.

Medvedev would probably have ZERO motivation to play the dead rubber, as he cannot qualify. So the Russian will go down in straight sets to the German.

So for Nadal - Tsitsipas beating Zverev was the LEAST favorable outcome.
 

RF-18

Talk Tennis Guru
You're right, now that I consider my math, but not for the reason you think. Zverev is the only player that can dethrone Tsitsipas. Nadal's best case scenario is 4-3 in sets, Tsitsipas' worst is 4-2 in sets. Nadal can't get ahead of him.

You've forgot h2h factor.

If Nadal beats Tsitsi, then both of them are 2-1. If Medvedev beats Zverev, then they are 1-2. In case of a tie between TWO players, h2h is the first deciding factor and in that case Nadal surpasses Tsitsi as group winner. Sets ratio is looked at when there is a three way tie. A three way tie can occur in the case of Zverev beating Medvedev, then Nadal is out due to the set ratio.

Anyway, Nadals in quite a mess. YE#1 is no longer in his hands nor the tournament.
 
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D

Deleted member 766172

Guest
So if Zverev wins and when Nadal wins we are going to go into a 3 way tie no? Looks like Nadal will make the semis.
 

Aussie Darcy

Bionic Poster
Yes, you are. Because ranking doesn't tell the full story. This tournament is massively overrated. So Zverev was totally destroyed today and he is still the favorite to reach the semifinal? What a joke.
Yeah you still didn’t show how I was wrong, I only posted facts, maybe do some research next time if you don’t understand the difference between right and wrong.
 

Sport

G.O.A.T.
I think Djokovic gets the YE #1 now. If Zverev beats Medvedev (the likely outcome), Nadal is OUT.

Medvedev would probably have ZERO motivation to play the dead rubber, as he cannot qualify. So the Russian will go down in straight sets to the German.

So for Nadal - Tsitsipas beating Zverev was the LEAST favorable outcome.
Medvedev CAN classify provided that he defeats Zverev in 2 and Nadal loses to Tsitsipas. The only scenario where Medvedev could lose the motivation is if he loses a set. The Nadal-Tsitsipas match will be in the night session and so Medvedev will play the match with Zverev with options to classify.
 

Yugram

Legend
Yes, you are. Because ranking doesn't tell the full story. This tournament is massively overrated. So Zverev was totally destroyed today and he is still the favorite to reach the semifinal? What a joke.
These haters are unbearable. As of the rankings after Cincinnati 2017, Alexander Zverev was #6. So let’s say Nadal beats 2017 Zverev at USO, would it be a more valuable win than against number 100+ Del Potro? Absolutely NOT.
 

tennismex123

New User
I think Djokovic gets the YE #1 now. If Zverev beats Medvedev (the likely outcome), Nadal is OUT.

Medvedev would probably have ZERO motivation to play the dead rubber, as he cannot qualify. So the Russian will go down in straight sets to the German.

So for Nadal - Tsitsipas beating Zverev was the LEAST favorable outcome.
As crazy as it souds Medvedev can still clasify given that Tsitsipas is playing great and I think would be the favorite against Nadal
 

Aussie Darcy

Bionic Poster
This is the info. Don’t debate it.

EJSNxBmWwAASis0.jpg
 

TennisFan3

Talk Tennis Guru
Medvedev CAN classify provided that he defeats Zverev in 2 and Nadal loses to Tsitsipas. The only scenario where Medvedev could lose the motivation is if he loses a set. The Nadal-Tsitsipas match will be in the night session and so Medvedev will play the match with Zverev with options to classify.

Got it. Thanks. Am I right in thinking that Nadal CANNOT finish second in the group. If Zverev beats Medvedev, then Nadal is OUT.
But if Nadal beats Tsitsipas in straights - he finishes top in his group.
 
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