If Zverev defeats Medvedev, Nadal is out of the ATP finals
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nvm
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LET'S GOOO ZVEREV!!!!!
ELEVATE TO ELIMINATE (Nadal)
ELEVATE TO ELIMINATE (Nadal)
Sport
G.O.A.T.
Tsitsipas is not favorite against Nadal, but he definetely has a chance. Nadal leads the H2H over Tsitsipas 4-1, but of course on indoor hard courts any good server like Tsitsipas can defeat Nadal.
vive le beau jeu !
Talk Tennis Guru
i'm becoming a true Z fan lately 
#LetsGoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
#LetsGoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
I Am Finnish
Bionic Poster
Good news for Nadal than
?
Nostradamus
Bionic Poster
Tsitsipas is 2-0 in the ATP finals, with a perfect 4-0 in sets. Even if he loses to Nadal tomorrow, he would still be 4-2 in sets and would classify to the semifinals.
If Zverev defeats Medvedev tomorrow in 2, he would be 4-2 in sets and would classify to the semifinals, as Nadal can only be 4-3 in sets.
If Zverev defeats Medvedev in 3, he would be 4-3 in sets and would classify to the semifinals because he leads the H2H over Rafa in the tournament.
Short explanation: regardless of Rafa's result with Tsitsipas, Zverev will reach the semifinals if he defeats Medvedev.
SEMI-FINAL QUALIFYING PROCEDURE
a) Greatest number of wins;
b) Greatest number of matches played;
Comment: 2-1 won-loss record beats a 2-0 won-loss record; a 1-2 record beats a 1-0 record.
c) Head-to-head results if only two (2) players are tied,
Comment 4: 3 players have 2 wins and the other player has 0 wins. The player with 0 wins is eliminated. Of the 3 players with 2 wins, 1 player’s sets won-loss is 5-2 for 71.43%; the other 2 players both have a 4-3 record in sets for 57.14%. In this case there is 1 superior player (71.43%) and the remaining 2 players are tied; it now reverts to the head to head result of the 2 remaining players with the winning player advancing as group runner-up.
Event | Nitto ATP Finals | Tennis
Event information about the Points & Prize Money, Rules & Regulations at the Nitto ATP Finals, the ATP Tour's season finale, held at the Pala Alpitour in Turin.www.nittoatpfinals.com
OOOOOooo this is juicy. will Medvedeve tank this one to get back at Rafa ? for embarassing him ? but I think he will give it 100 %. he doesn't want to go 0-3. that would be more embarrassing i think
I Am Finnish
Bionic Poster
Of coursei'm becoming a true Z fan lately
Medvedev can qualify if he beats Zverev in 2. Then he must "only" hope that Tsitsipas also beats Nadal to finish the group 3-0.
The set he won against Nadal would become very important then.
StrongRule
Talk Tennis Guru
Did you see how Tsitsipas played today? If he keeps playing like this he will destroy current Nadal. Anyway, Nadal should just withdraw from the tournament because Medvedev isn't going to beat Zverev.
Djokovic2011
Bionic Poster
How so?
Sport
G.O.A.T.
You right are.
Last edited:
TripleATeam
G.O.A.T.
I was thinking that it's still a 3-way tie. All 3 players would have 2 wins, 1 loss. In that case you're supposed to look at sets, then games, then H2H?
Sport
G.O.A.T.
I never said he had no chance. He can perfectly defeat Nadal.
Yugram
Legend
Lol, you were more positive when it seemed Nadal has absolutely 0 chance and now when there actually is a chance you say he should withdraw? No way. After what happened today, only fight till the end, even if 200 points is all he can gain.
I Am Finnish
Bionic Poster
Lol im totally wrong Nadal has a ratio of 2-3 not 3-3
tennismex123
New User
Man I think Nadal can´t classify now as number #2, if he wins against Tsitsipas they are tied with 2 wins and the H2H would decide the number 1 of the group.
jm1980
Talk Tennis Guru
This is wrong, Nadal can only advance if he is first in his group. If he beats Tsitsipas and Medvedev beats Zverev, the standings would be:
1. Nadal: 2-1
2. Tsitsipas: 2-1
3. Medvedev: 1-2
4. Zverev: 1-2
Nadal would hold the H2H advantage over Tsitsipas, and go on to face the winner of Fed/Djok in the semi
RF-18
Talk Tennis Guru
How would all 3 players have 2 wins and 1 loss if Nadal beats Tsitsi and Med beats Zverev?
It becomes:
Nadal 2-1
Tsitsi 2-1
Zverev 1-2
Med 1-2
Nadal classifies as group winner due to h2h against Tsitsi.
Right now the standing are
Tsitsi 2-0
Zverev 1-1
Nadal 1-1
Med 0-2
StrongRule
Talk Tennis Guru
200 points will not give him anything. Medvedev is not going to beat Zverev. You will see. And even if somehow Nadal reaches the semifinal, he will have to play Djokovic there. So YE#1 doesn't depend on him at all now.
Omfg, pathetic from Zverev. If only he won today then there will be a fight for a second place between Nadal and Tsitsipas.
TripleATeam
G.O.A.T.
My mistake! Yeah, that's right. Didn't think about that.
Aussie Darcy
Bionic Poster
How on earth are people still debating this, this is EVERY SCENARIO. Just look here to find where they’d finish. No, Nadal can not qualify second, only first.
jm1980
Talk Tennis Guru
The sets won only comes into play in three-way ties. If it is a two-way tie, H2H is considered immediately
Sport
G.O.A.T.
Thanks for the correction.
helterskelter
G.O.A.T.
Tsitsipas is 2-0 in the ATP finals, with a perfect 4-0 in sets. Even if he loses to Nadal tomorrow, he would still be 4-2 in sets and would classify to the semifinals.
If Zverev defeats Medvedev tomorrow in 2, he would be 4-2 in sets and would classify to the semifinals, as Nadal can only be 4-3 in sets.
If Zverev defeats Medvedev in 3, he would be 4-3 in sets and would classify to the semifinals because he leads the H2H over Rafa in the tournament.
Short explanation: regardless of Rafa's result with Tsitsipas, Zverev will reach the semifinals if he defeats Medvedev.
SEMI-FINAL QUALIFYING PROCEDURE
a) Greatest number of wins;
b) Greatest number of matches played;
Comment: 2-1 won-loss record beats a 2-0 won-loss record; a 1-2 record beats a 1-0 record.
c) Head-to-head results if only two (2) players are tied,
Comment 4: 3 players have 2 wins and the other player has 0 wins. The player with 0 wins is eliminated. Of the 3 players with 2 wins, 1 player’s sets won-loss is 5-2 for 71.43%; the other 2 players both have a 4-3 record in sets for 57.14%. In this case there is 1 superior player (71.43%) and the remaining 2 players are tied; it now reverts to the head to head result of the 2 remaining players with the winning player advancing as group runner-up.
Event | Nitto ATP Finals | Tennis
Event information about the Points & Prize Money, Rules & Regulations at the Nitto ATP Finals, the ATP Tour's season finale, held at the Pala Alpitour in Turin.
The rule that in the event of a three-way tie, sets won/lost comes first, and then head to head is stupid. It should be sets won/lost and then games won/lost. So, in the event of a 2-0 win for Nadal and a 2-1 win for Zverev, the decider between Nadal and Zverev ought to be games percentage, not head to head.
StrongRule
Talk Tennis Guru
I can say only one thing: this tournament is a JOKE.
jm1980
Talk Tennis Guru
Why?
RF-18
Talk Tennis Guru
No problem, it's normal. All these number are confusing.
In any case Djokovic is in a good spot if he wins tomorrow. Nadal can only finish as group winner if he goes through and in that case he will play Djokovic in the SF. He either plays Djokovic/Federer or he is out in the group.
YE#1 is totally in Djokos hands now. He controls his own destiny.
helterskelter
G.O.A.T.
Given the criteria as you have it, Zverev might not qualify if he defeats Medvedev in three, as a straight sets win for Nadal might conceivably end up with Nadal having a better games percentage than Zverev. E.g. if Zverev beat Medvedev 0-6 7-6 7-6, while Nadal beat Tsitsipas 6-0 6-0, Tsitsipas would win the group with a 4-2 sets record compared to Nadal and Zverev both being on 4-3. But Nadal would qualify ahead of Zverev, as his game record would be 37-28, while Zverev's game record would be 31-36.
@Sport Any idea on this?
TripleATeam
G.O.A.T.
But what if Nadal beats Tsitsipas in 2, Zverev beats Medvedev in 3?How on earth are people still debating this, this is EVERY SCENARIO. Just look here to find where they’d finish. No, Nadal can not qualify second, only first.
Then Tsitsipas, Nadal, and Zverev all have 2-1 records. Tsitsipas 4-2, Nadal and Zverev 4-3. If so, it would go to game % then, not H2H.
Never mind, I see the caveat of it going straight to H2H if the 3-way tie is broken.
helterskelter
G.O.A.T.
Because head to head really shouldn't be a criterion at all, but if it is to be one, it should either be ahead of both sets and games or below both. It doesn't make sense to have it in between, as sets and games are both sub-criterion of the same overall criterion, which is ease of the win.
Aussie Darcy
Bionic Poster
helterskelter
G.O.A.T.
Every situation here
That suggests that it is indeed: 1) Sets percentage, 2) Head to head, 3) Games percentage. If the order were reversed and it were 1) Sets percentage, 2) Games percentage, 3) Head to head, then Nadal in 2 and Zverev in 3 could conceivably end up #1 Tsitsipas, and #2 Nadal, as I documented above.
tennismex123
New User
Comment 1: 1 player has 3 wins and the other 3 players have 1 win. Of the 3 players with 1 win, 1 player has only played in 2 matches while the other 2 players have played 3 matches. The player who has only played 2 matches is eliminated and then the 2 remaining players revert back to head-to-head results with the winner of their match advancing to the semi-finals.
Comment 2: 1 player has 3 wins and the other 3 players have 1 win and they all have played 3 matches.
The tie-break for % of sets won has 1 player with a better % than the other two. This player advances to the semi-final round.
Comment 3: 3 players have 2 wins and the other player has 0 wins. The player with 0 wins is eliminated. Of the 3 players with 2 wins, they are ordered by their % of sets won. This produces a 1, 2 & 3 order and the players finishing 1 and 2 move to the semi-final round and the player finishing 3 in % of sets won is eliminated. The player with the best % of sets won is the winner of the group.
Comment 4: 3 players have 2 wins and the other player has 0 wins. The player with 0 wins is eliminated. Of the 3 players with 2 wins, 1 player’s sets won-loss is 5-2 for 71.43%; the other 2 players both have a 4-3 record in sets for 57.14%. In this case there is 1 superior player (71.43%) and the remaining 2 players are tied; it now reverts to the head to head result of the 2 remaining players with the winning player advancing as group runner-up.
Comment 5: 3 players have 2 wins and the other player has 0 wins. The player with 0 wins is eliminated. Of the 3 players with 2 wins, 2 have set won-loss records of 5-3 (62.5%) while the other player is 4-3 (57.14%). In this case we have 1 inferior player (57.14%) and he is eliminated. The remaining two players both advance to the semi-finals with the winner of their head-to-head match advancing as the group winner.
Comment 6: 3 players have 2 wins and the other player has 0 wins. The player with 0 wins is eliminated. Of the 3 players with 2 wins, all have played 3 matches and all 3 have set won-loss records of 5-4 (55.56%). In this case we move to % of games won. The % of games won breaks down like this: 44-40 for 52.38%, 45-43 for 51.14% and 44-43 for 50.57%. This produces a 1, 2 and 3 order of the group and the number 1 player in % of games won is the group winner while the player finishing 2nd in % of games won advances to the semi-finals as the group runner-up. The player with the 3rd best % of games won is eliminated.
TripleATeam
G.O.A.T.
Well, it was in his hands back in Shanghai and yesterday too.
It's good seeing that either Djokovic beats Nadal (very likely) or faces Tsitsipas (less likely, but still decent chances). I want to see him win the tournament again, it's been so long!
TripleATeam
G.O.A.T.
Looks like as soon as one player is eliminated from contention in a 3-way tie, it reverts to 2-way tie rules.
I Am Finnish
Bionic Poster
Agree
TimHenmanATG
Hall of Fame
Proof - as if proof were needed - that this farcical exho shouldn't be anywhere near the conversation surrounding professional tennis.
The way that the ATP has to "bribe" the players to compete - through obscene amounts of ranking points - tells its own story.
I don't know how any true aficionado of tennis can see this tournament as anything other than a joke.
The way that the ATP has to "bribe" the players to compete - through obscene amounts of ranking points - tells its own story.
I don't know how any true aficionado of tennis can see this tournament as anything other than a joke.
veroniquem
Bionic Poster
i'm becoming a true Z fan lately
#LetsGoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
jm1980
Talk Tennis Guru
That's exactly how it works. Sets won/lost is used to break 3 way ties; if it remains tied then games won/lost is used. The idea is always to get to a two way tie so that they can use H2H
jm1980
Talk Tennis Guru
The only thing this proves is that Nadal fans don't understand math, are butthurt, or a combination of both
bananaforehand
Rookie
My assumption is that because Tsitsipas comes out on top, it's then just a case of Nadal vs Zverev and you start again with the following:
Zverev comes on top in point 3.
Italian Stallion
Rookie
What I want to know is why some posters are using the word classify instead of qualify.
I Am Finnish
Bionic Poster
I think Medvedev will not show up
Aussie Darcy
Bionic Poster
“Farcical exho” Nadal fights from 5-1 match point down to win and keep his hopes alive but yeah it’s an exhibition tournament
What a joke.
jm1980
Talk Tennis Guru
Because in certain languages like Spanish they use a cognate of "classify" to mean qualify
Aussie Darcy
Bionic Poster
Never seen so many people get confused by a round robin format or qualification scenarios. Heaven forbid they watch the FIFA World Cup or NFL or the NRL/AFL here in Australia where it comes down to similar things like points won/points lost in case of a tie.
I’m not big on maths but this is not that hard.
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