my strokes (5.5) if interested

TonLars · May 7, 2007

javier sergio said:
How much cash did you make last year?

A couple thousand dollars in Open tournaments from the summer which is pretty cool, and there is major potential to make even more than that. I think I played about 13 tournaments, so its definitely alot of tennis and more than most people care to do. Most of them give about 500-1000 for the winner, and about 300-500 for runner-up. Some even have a bit more than that offered. I guess it beats mowing lawns or something else as a summer job.

Andres Guazzelli said:
Nice! Are you 100% already? That's awesome!
I still have 20 more days of rehab, until I can start any heavy hitting. 8 months without tennis is murder... and twice?? That's 16 months without hitting balls... A real pain in the ass.

Im not 100% actually, and I dont think I ever will be. I was offered the option of surgery but after the cortisone injection I went from like 30% to 80-85% and I can live with that. Also, it doesnt bother me at all playing tennis or doing most things, its only when I put my arm under major stress or in certain positions that its painful. I was under the impression you were all recovered, I cannot imagine having to wait and rehab so long! It is good to hear you are recovering though and Im sure youre extremely anxious to be past all of that and play some tennis! You must be a pretty good player yourself from what you say, so good luck to you as well in any tournaments you play!

Andres · May 7, 2007

TonLars said:
Im not 100% actually, and I dont think I ever will be. I was offered the option of surgery but after the cortisone injection I went from like 30% to 80-85% and I can live with that. Also, it doesnt bother me at all playing tennis or doing most things, its only when I put my arm under major stress or in certain positions that its painful. I was under the impression you were all recovered, I cannot imagine having to wait and rehab so long! It is good to hear you are recovering though and Im sure youre extremely anxious to be past all of that and play some tennis! You must be a pretty good player yourself from what you say, so good luck to you as well in any tournaments you play!

Nah, my rehab takes a little time, because I did have the surgery. And it wasn't an arthroscopy, but it was an open-sky surgery, and it takes around 6 weeks to get the first scaring of the "wound", and around 6 to 8 months to heal. After all, they cut through skin, and they cut the muscle until they reach the bone, and then is where I have the harpoons attached to the bone, the harpoons used to repair and stich the tore cartilage.

About my actual level of play, the AAT (argentinian tennis asociation) has an official circuit in every major city in the country (those cities with some tennis background, and usually half a million inhabitants. The circuit has 5 categories, being D5 the lowest, and D1 the highest. I'm playing D1. D1 is the tennis category right below Future events. And as far as I know, the NTRP equivalent rating for the D1 category is 5.0-6.0. I sent a tape to a tennis coach in a college in Boston, and he was the one who rated me a 5.5. Back then, I have absolutely no idea about those NTRP ratings... now, a year later, I kinda have a better notion of the subject.

There are around 15 or 20 tourneys every year in the circuit, and the actual ranking only matters after 4 or 5. Since I didn't play not even one this year, my ranking for the year is #172 out of 185. Not too good, may I say, but I'll try to gain some points by the end of the year, hehe-

I had a WC for the Argentina F15 Q last year (in October), but they cancelled the tourney, apparently, for some sponsorship problem. I had to withdraw anyway, cause I injured the left shoulder for the 3rd time in September the 2nd.

It's been a hell not playing all this time, but at least, I kept myself active by hitting at least once a week...

I can't wait to hit the courts regularly again.

Fedace · May 7, 2007

Tony, make the adjustments i recommended, your stroke will be perfect. Who know maybe you will run into Matt Bruch in one of these tourneys? He is planning on some Challengers and futures during the summer. Don't be too intimidated by his big serves and forehands.

grizzly4life · May 7, 2007

thanks for posting, and you are very brave.....

i believe that you are a 5.0, but i do think that you are really muscling it with a short backswing on forehand side and that will limit how high you could go in tennis.....

YonexDude · May 7, 2007

baros said:
division is judged on school size not level.

not neccessarily. villanova is a D1 school and it have under 5,000 kids. U of bridgeport in CT is also D1 and it doesn't have many people. St. Johns is also D1 and has under 10,000 people. there are dozens of other examples. divisions can depend on how good the school is or its size, or the combination of the two. some schools are div 1 or II in some sports, and div III in others.

to get on subject, your forehand is great. and i WISH that i had your footwork. your footwork seems impeccable from those videos. how long have you been playing tennis?

TonLars · May 7, 2007

grizzly4life said:
thanks for posting, and you are very brave.....

i believe that you are a 5.0, but i do think that you are really muscling it with a short backswing on forehand side and that will limit how high you could go in tennis.....

Oh I wont disagree at all, because this is two years ago. I was probably closer to a 5.0 at that stage and 5.5 would have been pushing it a bit for sure, although just hitting in a drill like this doesnt really show a whole lot. But based on results and the wins I have had I have to say my rating is 5.5 at this point in time. The forehand, as most on here have said, had some things to fix back then and I have done so. Thanks for the reply!

goober · May 7, 2007

Fedace said:
Tony, make the adjustments i recommended, your stroke will be perfect. .

uh didn't you say you were like a 4.0 level player in other threads? I am not sure how many 5.5 level players would take advice from a 4.0 level player especially if that player is not a coach. But who knows I am sure Tony thinks you are a highly credible person based on your other posts so maybe he will take your advice.

grizzly4life · May 7, 2007

TonLars said:
Oh I wont disagree at all, because this is two years ago. I was probably closer to a 5.0 at that stage and 5.5 would have been pushing it a bit for sure, although just hitting in a drill like this doesnt really show a whole lot. But based on results and the wins I have had I have to say my rating is 5.5 at this point in time. The forehand, as most on here have said, had some things to fix back then and I have done so. Thanks for the reply!

sorry, when i said you were a 5.0, i thought that's what you'd claimed.... didn't realize 5.0.... although i'd still stick with the 5.5.... glad to hear you've made some changes. i didn't see the recommendations, but for sure looser, longer swing...... thanks again for posting!!

grizzly4life · May 7, 2007

TonLars said:
Oh I wont disagree at all, because this is two years ago. I was probably closer to a 5.0 at that stage and 5.5 would have been pushing it a bit for sure, although just hitting in a drill like this doesnt really show a whole lot. But based on results and the wins I have had I have to say my rating is 5.5 at this point in time. The forehand, as most on here have said, had some things to fix back then and I have done so. Thanks for the reply!

sorry, when i said you were a 5.0, i thought that's what you'd claimed.... didn't realize 5.5.... although i'd still stick with the 5.0.... glad to hear you've made some changes. i didn't see the recommendations, but for sure looser, longer swing...... thanks again for posting!!

kevhen · May 7, 2007

1. Tony Larson (SCSU) def. Ben Lundell (GAC) 6-0, 2-6, 6-0 back in 2005

Ben is an instructor at our club now and I played 8 games with him and lost them all but was winning points against him (nobody warned me how good he was, just that he was the new club pro). He was just spinning in his serves and all his other strokes but was playing at a 5.0 level (better than any 4.5 I ever played) and Tony here double bageled him as well. So it does look like Tony is a 5.5 although the video only looks like 4.5-5.0 level to me. Would like to see him play under match conditions.

knasty131 · May 7, 2007

the only thing i would say to tonlars would be extend your right foot more across your body on your backhand to enable more hip rotation and that will give you more power without changing anything else about your stroke...it seems like your feet are too close together when rotating and that causes an unstable base which in turn gives you less power

-kevin

NebAce1 · May 7, 2007

nice hitting. I agree with some of the previous posters that your forehand looks a bit stiff, but other than that nice job.

And I was just wondering what you were ranked in the juniors? Thanks.

sinneTennis · May 7, 2007

Shindemac, or whatever the hell your name is,

Quoting me, quoting someone else about what THEIR NTRP is, to prove a point, in a negative way because of experience time isn't only ignorant, its plain stupid. Yeah, its been 4 months since I started, but i probably play a hell lot more then most of the people on this board, thats why im never on here, im practicing. So what if i dont have alot of TIME in experience? Doesnt mean im bad. Im #2 Singles on my HS JV team, and im a regular ZATs player at my club. so dont sit here and quote about me not knowing what ntrp rating somebody is just because i "just started this year"

SlapShot · May 7, 2007

sinneTennis said:
Shindemac, or whatever the hell your name is,

Quoting me, quoting someone else about what THEIR NTRP is, to prove a point, in a negative way because of experience time isn't only ignorant, its plain stupid. Yeah, its been 4 months since I started, but i probably play a hell lot more then most of the people on this board, thats why im never on here, im practicing. So what if i dont have alot of TIME in experience? Doesnt mean im bad. Im #2 Singles on my HS JV team, and im a regular ZATs player at my club. so dont sit here and quote about me not knowing what ntrp rating somebody is just because i "just started this year"

There is no replacement for experience, and that includes match play. To claim that you are a valid NTRP judge after having played for 4 months is simply flawed, however. Tony has several years of experience, as do many of the other posters in this thread.

No, the fact that just started this year doesn't mean that you are bad, but to claim that you have any level of expertise after a few months of tennis is simply not true.

jasoncho92 · May 7, 2007

sinneTennis said:
Shindemac, or whatever the hell your name is,

Quoting me, quoting someone else about what THEIR NTRP is, to prove a point, in a negative way because of experience time isn't only ignorant, its plain stupid. Yeah, its been 4 months since I started, but i probably play a hell lot more then most of the people on this board, thats why im never on here, im practicing. So what if i dont have alot of TIME in experience? Doesnt mean im bad. Im #2 Singles on my HS JV team, and im a regular ZATs player at my club. so dont sit here and quote about me not knowing what ntrp rating somebody is just because i "just started this year"

Experience time isnt important? So a person whos played for one day should be able to tell someone else what their ntrp rating is? And singles 2 on jv is nothing to brag about

EDIT// I just remembered you were the guy who posted himself serving inside his house a month ago. And from that you have nothing to argue to people just because of that video. And by the way i am not writing any of this as an insult so dont take it as one

35ft6 · May 7, 2007

J011yroger said:
No joke man, I just turned 25 and I don't know how these old guys do it. One of my coaches is #1 in the world in 55s, and I have no idea how he plays at such a high level being 30 years older than me.

How do/would you do against the 55yo instructor?

YonexDude said:
not neccessarily. villanova is a D1 school and it have under 5,000 kids. U of bridgeport in CT is also D1 and it doesn't have many people. St. Johns is also D1 and has under 10,000 people. there are dozens of other examples.

NYU is D-3 and they have over 35,000 students total.

TonLars · May 7, 2007

kevhen said:
1. Tony Larson (SCSU) def. Ben Lundell (GAC) 6-0, 2-6, 6-0 back in 2005

Ben is an instructor at our club now and I played 8 games with him and lost them all but was winning points against him (nobody warned me how good he was, just that he was the new club pro). He was just spinning in his serves and all his other strokes but was playing at a 5.0 level (better than any 4.5 I ever played) and Tony here double bageled him as well. So it does look like Tony is a 5.5 although the video only looks like 4.5-5.0 level to me. Would like to see him play under match conditions.

honestly bad second set, but yeah Lundell is definitely a solid 5.0 and was ranked in the top 5 to 10 in the nation for Division 3 singles. You must have figured out real soon that he doesnt go for much and rarely misses a ball im sure

knasty131 said:
the only thing i would say to tonlars would be extend your right foot more across your body on your backhand to enable more hip rotation and that will give you more power without changing anything else about your stroke...it seems like your feet are too close together when rotating and that causes an unstable base which in turn gives you less power

-kevin

Yeah good point, a few good coaches have told me I need to use more of my whole body potential to get more power. Thanks for the advice

NebAce1 said:
nice hitting. I agree with some of the previous posters that your forehand looks a bit stiff, but other than that nice job.

And I was just wondering what you were ranked in the juniors? Thanks.

I was consistently in the top 3 to 5 in my USTA section in my 2nd year of each age group. However, to make a long story short, my dad wouldnt take me to national tournaments because he felt it would be a waste to go if I didnt have a chance at winning the whole thing. I didnt ever have a national ranking, and the chances to improve seeing that competition. I made a big stride to where im at now when I got to college in California and was able to finally compete against good players on a regular basis.

sinneTennis · May 7, 2007

jasoncho92 said:
Experience time isnt important? So a person whos played for one day should be able to tell someone else what their ntrp rating is? And singles 2 on jv is nothing to brag about

EDIT// I just remembered you were the guy who posted himself serving inside his house a month ago. And from that you have nothing to argue to people just because of that video. And by the way i am not writing any of this as an insult so dont take it as one

excuse me Jason.. where in my post do I say that experience isnt important? I said "I dont have alot of exp", thats not saying experience is not important.

NebAce1 · May 7, 2007

TonLars said:
I was consistenyl in the top 3-5 in my USTA section in my 2nd year of each age group. However, to make a long story short, my dad wouldnt take me to national tournaments because he felt it would be a waste to go if I didnt have a chance at winning the whole thing. I didnt ever have a national ranking, and the chances to improve seeing that competition. I made a big stride to where im at now when I got to college in California and was able to finally compete against good players on a regular basis.

Yea kind of the same thing with me right now. I get good sectional rankings, but my parents don't really want to take me to national tournaments unless their close. And I have another question do kids with bad sectional rankings, but good national rankings get into a better tennis college rather than a kid with a good sectional ranking, but bad national ranking? Thanks.

TonLars · May 7, 2007

NebAce1 said:
Yea kind of the same thing with me right now. I get good sectional rankings, but my parents don't really want to take me to national tournaments unless their close. And I have another question do kids with bad sectional rankings, but good national rankings get into a better tennis college rather than a kid with a good sectional ranking, but bad national ranking? Thanks.

I think theyre going to look at both for sure. The local schools in the area are more interested in making sure they communicate and scout for the players in the area since they have a better shot at getting them than those farther away usually, so theyll probably check the section rankings and possibly make it out to the bigger sectional tournaments and highschool stuff. Otherwise, the big time schools who are recruiting even heavier are looking at the national rankings more so, along with other international players too. Tennis is a hard recruiting sport compared with, say, basketball, and often times you need to make first contact with a coach and possibly make a trip out there so they can answer your questions and see you hit, or maybe send them tape of you playing and notify them of your rankings. Certainly both rankings are important, while the national ranking can give you more options if you have done well at that level, you may catch the eye of out of state schools that are looking to get new players to come in.

Urza187 · May 7, 2007

Holy crap man, nice videos.

Some comments not concerning the video:
- You definitely are a 5.5. People who grade you lower are horrible at the game.
- I see you beat Jesse Brauer and Ben Lundell from Gustavus......Which means if you beat those two, and I think I heard someone mention Butorac also, then you definitely are amazing. I'm from IA and Ben is actually from where I live so I know how good these people are. I've personally seen Brauer and Lundell play multiple times and they are great players. 99% of the people on these boards couldn't beat either of those 3 guys.

P.S: Sorry but I have to defend the m i d w e s t

Gustavus is a very very good D3 school once ranked as the top D3 school for years, but now they are ranked 4th. Their facility and the group of players they have is amazing. I'm always inspired everytime I see a current or former Gustavus player play. Seeing them in real life versus watching them on video is totally different even at this level. You think you could hang in their with these guys, but if you actually played them you'd get pummeled.

Kevhen....where are you in IA? I take it you must be in, or close to, Iowa City. Ben is really good. I'd say he actually isn't as good as he was back in his college days although you'd have to hear the truth from him. It sure does help to hit countless balls while playing on a team. If you're in IA for the summer, you should come up to Dubuque and compete in the Mississsippi Valley Open. It's good times and you get to see many of the Gustavus players(current and former) play. They always make it deep in the tournament but never win(The last Gustavus player to win the MVO was Nick Crossley 3-4 years back). Last year a D1 player from Minnesota came and swept everyone. WOW. He(Avery Ticer) stomped Gustavus' #1 player Andy Bryan in the finals in the open. To Andy's defense, he had to play in the doubles final beforehand so he wasn't 100% but it's crazy to see the difference in a D1 player and a top D3 player.

Back on topic...... Tony i'd love to see videos of you playing. It's always great to watch good players who aren't on tour play and try to integrate parts of their game into mine and so on.

Edit: You can't say m i d w e s t on the forums?! Whats up with that :-/

NebAce1 · May 7, 2007

TonLars said:
I think theyre going to look at both for sure. The local schools in the area are more interested in making sure they communicate and scout for the players in the area since they have a better shot at getting them than those farther away usually, so theyll probably check the section rankings and possibly make it out to the bigger sectional tournaments and highschool stuff. Otherwise, the big time schools who are recruiting even heavier are looking at the national rankings more so, along with other international players too. Tennis is a hard recruiting sport compared with, say, basketball, and often times you need to make first contact with a coach and possibly make a trip out there so they can answer your questions and see you hit, or maybe send them tape of you playing and notify them of your rankings. Certainly both rankings are important, while the national ranking can give you more options if you have done well at that level, you may catch the eye of out of state schools that are looking to get new players to come in.

Thanks for anwsering my questions.

TonLars · May 7, 2007

Urza187 said:
Last year a D1 player from Minnesota came and swept everyone. WOW. He(Avery Ticer) stomped Gustavus' #1 player Andy Bryan in the finals in the open. To Andy's defense, he had to play in the doubles final beforehand so he wasn't 100% but it's crazy to see the difference in a D1 player and a top D3 player.

Back on topic...... Tony i'd love to see videos of you playing. It's always great to watch good players who aren't on tour play and try to integrate parts of their game into mine and so on.

Thanks for the comments. Avery Ticer definitely is an amazing player. He played #1 for Minnesota which in the past had been one of the top programs; often top 25 or better. He personally also finished at the end of his senior year ranked #34 in the nation for singles, and made the year end tournament. Andy Bryan (and Jesse) is also a very good player and he is one of the best for Division 3.

TENNIS_IS_FUN · May 7, 2007

VERY nice strokes TonLars!

I liked the very early take back on your backhand but oddly i didnt see the same with your forehand! Your strokes look a bit mechanical but other than that, amazing!

cereal · May 7, 2007

hey ton lars you know a guy named jimmy sherouse plays for st. cloud from
texas?

shindemac · May 7, 2007

sinneTennis said:
Shindemac, or whatever the hell your name is,

Quoting me, quoting someone else about what THEIR NTRP is, to prove a point, in a negative way because of experience time isn't only ignorant, its plain stupid. Yeah, its been 4 months since I started, but i probably play a hell lot more then most of the people on this board, thats why im never on here, im practicing. So what if i dont have alot of TIME in experience? Doesnt mean im bad. Im #2 Singles on my HS JV team, and im a regular ZATs player at my club. so dont sit here and quote about me not knowing what ntrp rating somebody is just because i "just started this year"

I have no idea what you're talking about. I was quoting myself. I wasn't even talking about u so I don't know why you're saying this.

Back on topic. Whatever your rating was, 2 years is a long time and I would hope you can at least improve 1 ntrp in that time, esp. since you seem to play very competitively. I think your new vids solidify your rating cause it shows you can control your pace and spin. I know of someone who's trying to climb the pro ladder too for the last 3 years, and I'm surprised how slow and difficult it is. Anyways, good luck with your journey.

J011yroger · May 7, 2007

35ft6 said:
How do/would you do against the 55yo instructor?

I have never played him, he helps me with mental coaching, we only did our first on court session last month.

How I would do, would depend on the surface and of course since I am currently such a streaky player, which one of me showed up.

On grass, he is unbeatable, I think other than my first serves I would struggle to win points.

On clay, I don't know how to play, I don't know if I am better off playing my normal offensive game which is not as effective or a more defensive game which I am not as good at. My primary focus this winter was to get better on clay, and I made great strides, and did make the final of an open tourney on it but still am a full level worse player on dirt. I would say that the match would look competitive and close to the observer, but that the score would be a lopsided win for him.

On a gritty hard court, I could see myself being able to put something together, because although he moves well and doesn't miss, I can really hit and serve on that surface. But conversely, if he is getting my serves back, and keeping the ball low and deep, well, lets say I wouldn't be shocked if I got smoked too.

Maybe I am not giving myself enough credit, but I really feel that I need this full year of open tournament play to get seasoned, and work out a few glitches in my game. Then next year I can have a good base to start from and improve on.

J

TonLars · May 7, 2007

TENNIS_IS_FUN said:
VERY nice strokes TonLars!

I liked the very early take back on your backhand but oddly i didnt see the same with your forehand! Your strokes look a bit mechanical but other than that, amazing!

Thanks for commenting. Forehand is better now. I keep hearing this "robotic" "mechanical" (etc) theme, lol! Im going to take it as a compliment though since I dont like to miss much

From all these comments, this must be maybe part of the reason why several people call me the machine lol!

cereal said:
hey ton lars you know a guy named jimmy sherouse plays for st. cloud from
texas?

Yup sure do, he is a freshman here, very nice kid. He is not a bad player and has some potential, but he was their 8th man this year and played exhibition. I was the assistant coach this year for both mens and womens teams.

shindemac said:
Back on topic. Whatever your rating was, 2 years is a long time and I would hope you can at least improve 1 ntrp in that time, esp. since you seem to play very competitively. I think your new vids solidify your rating cause it shows you can control your pace and spin. I know of someone who's trying to climb the pro ladder too for the last 3 years, and I'm surprised how slow and difficult it is. Anyways, good luck with your journey.

Thanks. I have to point out again though that these videos are actually from two years ago in 2005. Youd be surprised how much better that is from 2003, believe me a major improvement. Now in 2007, which I have no video of, the forehand is definitely much better, and other things are better but probably most importantly is the experience I have now from all the matches with good players, and so Im a smarter player and such.

Of course im always going to have the mindset and try to beat anyone I play, but really I dont think I can play pro. Theres definitely alot of very very tough players out there and while my game is solid and Im pretty fit, the reality probably is my game even now in 2007 which is twice as aggressive as 2 years ago, just isnt nearly big enough to beat guys that are at the top of Division 1 or players from other countries that are tough. I can groundstroke with pretty much anyone which is sweet, but ive had more than a couple people comment on the fact that I could be twice as good if I had a big serve, and that its sad that someone with my groundstrokes doesnt have as good of a serve to go with it. Its not bad, but its not "big". Im just doing the Futures for fun this summer to see how it goes and i will probably win matches here and there; a tough goal of mine will be to qualify for a main draw. I love to compete, and so otherwise the Open tournaments in the area I play, and have a good shot at winning any and all of them and they also pay out quite alot so that is sweet to go after.

ChipNCharge · May 7, 2007

TonLars said:
I have never used led actually, no....you dont need lead if you just find the right stick.

Huh?! Let me get this straight. You're a 5.5 and you DON'T have your racquets weighted to SW2?? That's impossible!

TonLars · May 7, 2007

ChipNCharge said:
Huh?! Let me get this straight. You're a 5.5 and you DON'T have your racquets weighted to SW2?? That's impossible!

As I also said which may be more surprising to you, I use an oversize racket and its relatively lighter than racquets other people I play use. I have demoed other stuff, not much though. Basically nothing feels right except what Im comfortable with. Since ive always used the same thing basically, I dont want to change. The racquet ive been using for 2 yrs now is more or less exactly the same as what I used 8 yrs before that switch. And before that racquet which was when I was in about 6th-7th grade, was using an oversize a couple yrs

The Head Ti and Flexpoint radicals give a nice mix of control and power, and theres no sense in me trying to use something of a different weight or head size.

Urza187 · May 8, 2007

Hey TonLars, where in MN are you from? If it isn't much of a drive, you should come down to Dubuque, IA for the Mississippi Valley Open. It's usually around the last week of July(last week or next to last week). Last years 1st place was I think at least $1000(it could have been 1500, i'm not sure). Gustavus brings a bunch of people and there are always other good players too(There is a former Pac10 Champion who is always the favorite when he enters, and a few years ago Drake's former 1 and 2 came down). It'd be cool to see you there.

kevhen · May 8, 2007

TonLars said:
honestly bad second set, but yeah Lundell is definitely a solid 5.0 and was ranked in the top 5 to 10 in the nation for Division 3 singles. You must have figured out real soon that he doesnt go for much and rarely misses a ball im sure

At first I just played my game and rallied with the occasional net attack but we would have 10 ball rallies and eventually he would finish with a winner or I would make the error. So after losing 2-3 games this way, I started going for more on the serve and going to net alot more, even serve and volley, but of course he handles pace well and has good wheels so even though I was winning a couple points each game, I wasn't winning any games!!!! I was ready to quit after one set since it was supposed to be a 4.5 team doubles practice that night but the other guys weren't done so we played a couple more games and I just tried to play smart tennis and keep the ball in play more down the middle and make him hit winners but he won those games too but it was fun anyway to play someone who makes it look so easy. I think he even eased up on his serve just so we could have some good rallies, but he may not be a big server but he does put a decent amount of spin on his serves and groundstrokes as well.

fearless1 · May 8, 2007

TonLars said:
Heres two links I just made of me hitting groundstrokes 2 years ago for a guy that does video analysis. I can put a couple others up later, but for now I have here basic cross court topspin forehands and backhands:

backhands: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xGR1n0Xhvvk Disregard blank blue screen for first 10"
forehands: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vRj1mV6n-VU
backhand flatter drives and some slices: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QqbbYVl2Fqg
forehand short angles: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HvP_C7tBz1k

Comment if you like I guess. Im a 5.5 out of college and playing Open tournaments for cash and trying to do something in the Futures this summer.

Nice hitting. Kind of strange you want "lesser folk" to check your strokes on video....I'm inclined to think that most of the opin here at TWf couldn't possibly matter to you in a technical sense. Plus, I'm sure you are already aware that it's consistent shot making that wins the points and matches no matter what your stroke type or style is.

Anyway, one player that came to mind as I was watching your strokes is Jimmy Connors. JC, the flat hitting brash basher, described his own strokes as, "simple, compact, just straight back then swing forward." What some here have said about your strokes as being "mechanical" is in reality simplicity and high efficiency.

My stroke style is very similar to yours (or JC), so I know what you are experiencing when I hit a ball. A few important things that many don't realize about your stroke style (compared to loopier type strokes): it's easier to hit a VERY accurate heavy ball; not as physically taxing; the sameness or repeatability of the stroke is conducive to very consistent hitting.

Far more important than your strokes [style] is your playing style when the points count. Are you a serve and volleyer, all courter, dedicated baseliner, attacker, counter puncher, etc. What is the "pace" or "feel" of your game too...very aggressive, patient, soft, hard, brilliant tactician or are you a "street fighter", etc.?

What do you feel your weaknesses are? What do you think would prevent you from reaching say an ATP top 100 ranking within the next 24 months?

Fedace · May 8, 2007

goober said:
uh didn't you say you were like a 4.0 level player in other threads? I am not sure how many 5.5 level players would take advice from a 4.0 level player especially if that player is not a coach. But who knows I am sure Tony thinks you are a highly credible person based on your other posts so maybe he will take your advice.

How do you know i am 4.0 level and not a 6.5 level player ? How do you know i didn't actually play for Stanford in the past ? I will leave this as mystery.

kevhen · May 8, 2007

Waterloo Open is even closer than Dubuque and they offer like $1000 to the winner as well. Usually U of Iowa or Drake U guys show up for their paychecks. If they are still in school, they just take an amount equal to gas, hotel, and food expenses.

kevhen · May 8, 2007

Hey Tony, do you go to hockey games as St Cloud? Did you ever see your goaltender Bobby Goephert play in the last couple of years? He played in Cedar Rapids here when he was playing junior hockey and was awesome to watch as the quickest goalie I have ever seen. He will very likely be in the NHL soon as he won league MVP awards and took the team far.

TonLars · May 8, 2007

fearless1 said:
Nice hitting. Kind of strange you want "lesser folk" to check your strokes on video....I'm inclined to think that most of the opin here at TWf couldn't possibly matter to you in a technical sense. Plus, I'm sure you are already aware that it's consistent shot making that wins the points and matches and not stroke type or style.

Anyway, one player that came to mind as I was watching your strokes is Jimmy Connors. JC, the flat hitting brash basher, described his own strokes as, "simple, compact, just straight back then swing forward." What some here have said about your strokes as being "mechanical" is in reality simplicity and high efficiency.

My stroke style is very similar to yours (or JC), so I know what you are experiencing when I hit a ball. A few important things that many don't realize about your stroke style (compared to loopier type strokes): it's easier to hit a VERY accurate heavy ball; not as physically taxing; the sameness or repeatability of the stroke is conducive to very consistent hitting.

Far more important than your strokes [style] is your playing style when the points count. Are you a serve and volleyer, all courter, dedicated baseliner, attacker, counter puncher, etc. What is the "pace" or "feel" of your game too...very aggressive, patient, soft, hard, brilliant tactician or are you a "street fighter", etc.?

What do you feel your weaknesses are? What do you think would prevent you from reaching say an ATP top 100 ranking within the next 24 months?

Hey, thanks for taking the time to post. I guess I didnt really think of it as coming to "lesser folk" but more so figured I could get some interesting feedback and discussion, and knew that people would probably comment on the things that needed work on back then 2 yrs ago when this was filmed. I think quite a bit of the feedback has been dead on, and fortunately I have improved my forehand alot since these videos were shot way back then. Otherwise, I just thought it was cool to post the videos up and join YouTube haha!
It was interesting to see what you say about Jimmy Connors and his strokes, thanks for that insight. I definitely feel the same way you do about it and I agree with everything you said. Everyone has their own style. Its been interesting to see the comparisons on here to other players and for the most part I can see the relation to those names that have been thrown around, especially Connors and Venus.
I will try to answer your question about my style. Im definitely a baseliner. I do not serve and volley, and I do not come to the net often other than when I really have gotten the advantage in the point to put away a weak ball or possibly to put some pressure on someone to pass off an approach. When these videos were shot, my style was absolutely "patient and grind" and I moved well. Today its a little different, I have to say im a fair amount better than in 2005. The strongest part of my game is that I still move exceptionally well and get alot of tough balls back and hit shots on the run fairly well. While im still patient, im hitting a considerable amount harder now, and I am trying to work my opponent mainly cross court from corner to corner with good placement without going for winners really, but just forcing alot and making them run. I think the best example I could give you that is similar to the way I play now is Agassi. So Ive gone from patient grinder baseline to smart agressive baseline.
Weaknesses, Ive always had a serve that is an achilles heel for my level, and my volleys are nothing special because I have practiced groundstrokes my whole life. The serve really isnt bad, and thats because I have improved it a little, but traditionally when im playing very good players im always the weaker serve. Today, I probably hit it not much more than 100, and it is placed well and relatively consistent; really both my 1st and 2nd serve are a what you could call a standard kick.
Its also funny you mention ATP top 100. I mean, most people are going to laugh at that in the face, and when ive heard it I get all wide eyed and laugh a little. But at the same time, deep inside I think I have or had the potential to possibly do something maybe somewhat close to that. I hate to make excuses, but for the purpose of understanding me, growing up im from a farm town in Minnesota with nobody over a 4.0 around to hit with, and neither of my parents played much, and I live over an hour from indoor courts in the winter, etc. I improved ALOT in my 2nd year of college, and by then maybe I could have transferred to a good D1 school but I didnt and maybe I could be better right now. A guy in Florida that is a known coach saw me hit this winter and was really excited to train me and said, "hey, you have got the potential to do alot more, lets get you into the top 100 in a couple years, times running out, Ive seen Scoville and Donald young and they really dont have anything on you and the way you all hit and move and compete isnt any different". So I think also I would need to make a commitment to train somewhere like with a coach and with practice players like that instead of even now, Im practicing with 4.5- weak 5.0 players (if im lucky) every day. Ive just tried to work hard with what ive got and thats taken me to where I am now.

TonLars · May 8, 2007

Urza187 said:
Hey TonLars, where in MN are you from? If it isn't much of a drive, you should come down to Dubuque, IA for the Mississippi Valley Open. It's usually around the last week of July(last week or next to last week). Last years 1st place was I think at least $1000(it could have been 1500, i'm not sure). Gustavus brings a bunch of people and there are always other good players too(There is a former Pac10 Champion who is always the favorite when he enters, and a few years ago Drake's former 1 and 2 came down). It'd be cool to see you there.

Its quite a drive actually, but I have thought about playing those tournaments, I just heard about them last year actually for the first time. I will have to see, itd be fun, but as of now I have tournaments almost every weekend this summer that I have all planned out, I will see though!

kevhen said:
Waterloo Open is even closer than Dubuque and they offer like $1000 to the winner as well. Usually U of Iowa or Drake U guys show up for their paychecks. If they are still in school, they just take an amount equal to gas, hotel, and food expenses.

Yeah those Drake players are good, Anthony Perkins had done well in the past summers and won quite a few winners checks. Ill have to keep that tournament in mind too, thanks! Im out of eligibility now so I dont have to take a smaller check hehe

kevhen said:
Hey Tony, do you go to hockey games as St Cloud? Did you ever see your goaltender Bobby Goephert play in the last couple of years? He played in Cedar Rapids here when he was playing junior hockey and was awesome to watch as the quickest goalie I have ever seen. He will very likely be in the NHL soon as he won league MVP awards and took the team far.

Haha Im actually not a hockey fan, I played and like basketball. Hockey definitely is the big sport in this state and at our school though, and SCSU did quite well this last season.

goober · May 8, 2007

Fedace said:
How do you know i am 4.0 level and not a 6.5 level player ? How do you know i didn't actually play for Stanford in the past ? I will leave this as mystery.

Sure you use to play for Stanford in the past and are 6.5 level player. I know you and Matt Bruch are tight. Oh I don't know why I thought you were a 4.0 player. Could it be maybe because you posted this?

Fedace said:
they are not very good, your best bet is to go to a local privately owned tennis shop. I know they absolutely cannot string gut cause they nearly broke my gut string every time. Do you play any USTA tennis? I used to play for men's 4.0 team out of high point. Adrian Guihat was our captain. i believe they still play and are doing pretty well.

Keep living in your Stanford fantasy dreamworld Fedace. Keep telling players that are way better than you what they are doing wrong because I know you know better than they do or their coach.

Fedace · May 8, 2007

goober said:
Sure you use to play for Stanford in the past and are 6.5 level player. I know you and Matt Bruch are tight. Oh I don't know why I thought you were a 4.0 player. Could it be maybe because you posted this?

Keep living in your Stanford fantasy dreamworld Fedace. Keep telling players that are way better than you what they are doing wrong because I know you know better than they do or their coach.

trust me when i say this, there are many formal division 1 players in the 4.0 level as bad as it sounds. FYI, i did play in 4.0 level but only for 1 season and played at 4.5 and 5.0 level for several seasons. Not that i have to prove anything to you. and yes, i do know Matt, we are not best friends or anything but i do know his mom and him.

goober · May 8, 2007

Fedace said:
trust me when i say this, there are many formal division 1 players in the 4.0 level as bad as it sounds. FYI, i did play in 4.0 level but only for 1 season and played at 4.5 and 5.0 level for several seasons. Not that i have to prove anything to you.

Well you just questioned how do I know you are a 4.0 player and not a 6.5 level player.

So now you are claiming that you are actually a 5.0 player that played on a 4.0 team. That's makes you a pretty bad cheater.

wings56 · May 8, 2007

Tony, I have to say I feel sorry for you about all this negative criticism. I played #7 this year for a D1 school and got to see all sorts of players. I think its funny that people judge you so harshly for your strokes. I don't think people realize how many other factors make up a good tennis player. Have you ever seen Daniel Omana from UT-Arlington play? When I saw him and saw him warming up against our #2 player I thought he was joking. It was very ugly and he did not generate hardly any power. Needless to say, he beat our #2 in three sets. He had a wonderful court sense and knew how to play the game. His strokes were far worse than yours(which are not even bad). I would just like everyone to realize that results speak for themselves. I'm sure if you were ranked in the top 50 that you are a very good player, despite what anyone on here might say. I played a top 50 D2 player in my first ever college match last fall. I pretty much got worked.....1,0. Now I was extremely nervous being a freshman at my first tournament and on a normal day it would have been closer(probably 3,4) but he was still clearly better. I wish you the best of luck in your tennis career!

darkblue · May 8, 2007

who the f**k is this eastarchangle guy? (utube comment)
according to the profile, he is 65 yrs old.

kevhen · May 8, 2007

TonLars said:
Yeah those Drake players are good, Anthony Perkins had done well in the past summers and won quite a few winners checks. Ill have to keep that tournament in mind too, thanks! Im out of eligibility now so I dont have to take a smaller check hehe

Perkins didn't play last year so a South American guy won. He didn't speak much English but he and I were enjoying watching Federer and Nadal at the French Open during the Waterloo Open before his final.

Perkins was awesome to watch as he got everything back and all his passing shots were like an inch over the net. He would frustrate all the big 120mph servers by getting everything back.

Perkins who is British is like a 6.0 in my opinion. The SA kid that won last year was more of a 5.5 who did make mistakes going for too much at times. They limit the draw to 32 so you have to register early for Waterloo which is June 9th-10th.

The women usually only have like 4-6 entries so most of them make back their entry fee and a little more even if they lose first round.

TonLars · May 8, 2007

wings56 said:
Tony, I have to say I feel sorry for you about all this negative criticism. I played #7 this year for a D1 school and got to see all sorts of players. I think its funny that people judge you so harshly for your strokes. I don't think people realize how many other factors make up a good tennis player. I would just like everyone to realize that results speak for themselves. I'm sure if you were ranked in the top 50 that you are a very good player, despite what anyone on here might say. I played a top 50 D2 player in my first ever college match last fall. I pretty much got worked.....1,0. Now I was extremely nervous being a freshman at my first tournament and on a normal day it would have been closer(probably 3,4) but he was still clearly better. I wish you the best of luck in your tennis career!

Thankyou for the kind words. Really I have not been offended by any criticism on here. I actually am very flattered by how complimentary almost everyone has been as I expected much more negativity actually. Most of the analysis has been very good as well; my forehand definitely was not strong 2 yrs ago. Maybe someday I can get some video of more recent playing. Which school do you play for? Sounds like you must be doing pretty well, so good luck to you also in your next 3 yrs of college tennis!

darkblue said:
who the f**k is this eastarchangle guy? (utube comment)
according to the profile, he is 65 yrs old.

I dont know, he has some interesting comments though. I thank whoever came to my defense haha, but actually when you read what he says its more funny than anything the way he worded some things. "Senior citizen racket speed at most", lol! And youre right it said he is 65, so what is he saying about that then!? I deleted the really obscene comments so those cant be seen any longer.

kevhen said:
They limit the draw to 32 so you have to register early for Waterloo which is June 9th-10th.

I just checked my schedule and I actually have June 9th free right now! Im thinking I very likely will come play that tournament. Im assuming its USTA so I can register on the website? If not, maybe you know a way I could get an entry form mailed to me? Thanks Kev

kevhen · May 8, 2007

http://tennislink.usta.com/tournaments/TournamentHome/Tournament.aspx?T=56785
It's USTA. There is alway good talent in the Open so sometimes I like watching that and almost forget to play in my own 4.0 matches.

This is my favorite tourney of the summer as it's still not so hot and the kid in charge Ryan Flaherty always runs a good tournament. They have 16 courts on site so the Open level players don't have to go anywhere else to play and they give a free picnic dinner on Saturday. It's $19 and includes a t-shirt.

The Open starts Friday night at 6PM. Win 5 rounds and collect $1000. Half the guys are 4.5s and the other half are 5.0+

I'll stop over and say hi if I see you in the draw.

sinneTennis · May 8, 2007

shindemac said:
I have no idea what you're talking about. I was quoting myself. I wasn't even talking about u so I don't know why you're saying this.

Back on topic. Whatever your rating was, 2 years is a long time and I would hope you can at least improve 1 ntrp in that time, esp. since you seem to play very competitively. I think your new vids solidify your rating cause it shows you can control your pace and spin. I know of someone who's trying to climb the pro ladder too for the last 3 years, and I'm surprised how slow and difficult it is. Anyways, good luck with your journey.

Refer back to the THREAD you were quoting, and look at your response to my comment.

supafly_81 · May 8, 2007

I like how consistent you are, in those vids you look like you can go all day. You would make a excellent hitting partner haha and probably a good instructor if you are ever thinking about doing that in your later years. You are probably more agressive in matches right? or is that your style of play? Well anyways good stuff, next time you make a vid, have one of you playing a game or something, cause for sure we would like to see some of your agressive shots. Peace

Anton · May 8, 2007

From this video:

Good footwork, very solid consistency.

Looks like you depend on your consistency rather then power to win at your level.

Now, there is some element of a debate and subjectivity to this, BUT IMO, as far as the constructive criticism goes:

Now just by looking at the strokes and not where the ball goes, it doesn't seem like anything too beautiful there - not bad, but very mechanical and a bit short.

The way you take your forehand/backhand strokes straight back seems to be a product of a strict begginer/reformation instruction you did not refine much as you grew comfortable with them. It is my opinion that you've just about hit the ceiling of the level of game play that is possible with such strokes (in fact I'm surprised you got this far)

What is supposed to happen is player loosens up that very rigid form to a more loopy form (not always, as there where some examples of pros to the contrary), which pays off with more topspin and pace at expense of perhaps a slightly longer preparation (which should be no problem given your good footwork) for the swing as the racket is taken further back (and most often high up)
------------

Watch Roddick's forehand and notice how he takes the racket back with both hands, this is a great habbit to have to insure feet placement (which is a bit open for his western grip, but you do that well already) and more shoulder rotation (which is what you need to add more of imo)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DbOal0dK72c
-----------

Similarly with your back hand - take it further back and tuck that racket to your body a little more (by bending left arm in more) and with a little more loop on it.

Also, you point the face of the racket upwards in preparation for the swing, this is your learned way to make up for lack of full swing power with a heavy wrist twist which happens as you change the direction of your racket face to forward. There is a lot more spin to be had here I promise you.

Here is a very exaggerated backhand loop:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QQQfCSI4B78&mode=related&search=

I'm not saying you should loop it THAT much, as you have more strength and don't need it to be that long, but mostly notice how the left hand is bent and close to the body as the forward part of the swing begins.
--------

Lastly - you make the same mistake (well sorta) as me on the slice - you are using too much shoulder/torso rotation and not enough of your arm and tricep muscle, which results in much less spin and pace being produced.

To fix this I pay attention to have my arm bent in the elbow all the way as I prepare for a slice and concentrate on contracting the tricep as I slice - the difference is day and night - very low deep slice and with pace too.

Again, your legs seem to be doing the right thing here too.

Hopefully this helps (it better! I've taken alot of time to type this up!)

TonLars · May 8, 2007

Anton said:
From this video:

Good footwork, very solid consistency.

Looks like you depend on your consistency rather then power to win at your level.

Now, there is some element of a debate and subjectivity to this, BUT IMO, as far as the constructive criticism goes:

Now just by looking at the strokes and not where the ball goes, it doesn't seem like anything too beautiful there - not bad, but very mechanical and a bit short.

The way you take your forehand/backhand strokes straight back seems to be a product of a strict begginer/reformation instruction you did not refine much as you grew comfortable with them. It is my opinion that you've just about hit the ceiling of the level of game play that is possible with such strokes (in fact I'm surprised you got this far)

What is supposed to happen is player loosens up that very rigid form to a more loopy form (not always, as there where some examples of pros to the contrary), which pays off with more topspin and pace at expense of perhaps a slightly longer preparation (which should be no problem given your good footwork) for the swing as the racket is taken further back (and most often high up)
------------

Watch Roddick's forehand and notice how he takes the racket back with both hands, this is a great habbit to have to insure feet placement (which is a bit open for his western grip, but you do that well already) and more shoulder rotation (which is what you need to add more of imo)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DbOal0dK72c
-----------

Similarly with your back hand - take it further back and tuck that racket to your body a little more (by bending left arm in more) and with a little more loop on it.

Also, you point the face of the racket upwards in preparation for the swing, this is your learned way to make up for lack of full swing power with a heavy wrist twist which happens as you change the direction of your racket face to forward. There is a lot more spin to be had here I promise you.

Here is a very exaggerated backhand loop:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QQQfCSI4B78&mode=related&search=

I'm not saying you should loop it THAT much, as you have more strength and don't need it to be that long, but mostly notice how the left hand is bent and close to the body as the forward part of the swing begins.
--------

Lastly - you make the same mistake (well sorta) as me on the slice - you are using too much shoulder/torso rotation and not enough of your arm and tricep muscle, which results in much less spin and pace being produced.

To fix this I pay attention to have my arm bent in the elbow all the way as I prepare for a slice and concentrate on contracting the tricep as I slice - the difference is day and night - very low deep slice and with pace too.

Again, your legs seem to be doing the right thing here too.

Hopefully this helps (it better! I've taken alot of time to type this up!)

Thanks for the extended feedback, definitely interesting to read. As far as the compact strokes theres definitely some trade offs compared to a fuller or loopier stroke. The form and early take back was how I was taught the backhand at a very young age, and so the backhand has no breakdowns and has been my best shot my whole career. Otherwise, with every other shot in the game, I wasnt really taught it early or well, and I developed it on my own through time and changes in self teaching. The forehand is just as good if not better than the backhand now and that is why I dont feel uncomfortable saying on here that I can groundstroke with anyone. I could improve quite a bit and move past a ceiling concerning other parts of my game; most importantly my serve, volleys, and as for everyone perhaps sharpen up little things. I think youre right and I am sacrificng some power and spin potential with compact strokes, but I have enjoyed the 'mechanical' comments I have read on here because my objective is hitting the ball consistent, deep, and from corner to corner. I completely agree that maybe I am too stiff as far as using my entire body goes; im not getting the full potential and power out of my strokes as if I were to use more rotation and legs and etc. I will have to consider these things to improve further. Thanks for the tips on the slice, I really dont use it much except for defense and out of reach for the most part, but that stroke certainly could use attention too and not be ignored. Thanks again!

my strokes (5.5) if interested

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