J011yroger Stroke Inventory.

J011yroger · Jun 23, 2007

I am going to start a video stroke inventory. In this thread I will post videos of my strokes, hitting sessions and match play.

I intend to continue to update this as I go on, and continue adding different videos.

Have not played in two weeks, due to my sprained wrist, and decided to fool around with my ball machine, and video camera.

All I could do was hit backhands, so here they are. My first entry.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q3n1X6oKH_s

Backhands 6/23/2007

------------------------------------------------------------

Some 2nd serves to the Ad Court. All Topspin kickers. Mostly Topspin with just a hint of twist to them. 6/30/07

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jJPszDK74k0

Two serves into each box. A first, then a second. 6/30/07

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I0iu-QEfkY0

Some Lukewarm first serves into the Ad Court. 6/30/07

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gOfIwjBMr3g

These are the first serves I have hit in about a month, and it shows. The thing that immediately jumped out at me was that my toss timing was way off. It is evident in the pause in the racquet swing path in the "Trophy Position". Normally I don't begin to bring my racquet up until after the ball is tossed and it is one fluid motion, there is no pause in the swingpath when the racquet is pointing to the sky. Also it looked like I was stopping the followthrough not letting the racquet decelerate naturally. I looked very tight. Speed wasn't earth shattering, but I was quite happy with my placement and consistency for the first day out. Will try to smooth out that timing thing/follow through tomorrow and post more vids.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Weeklyish match between me and a buddy of mine. He is competitive at the national 35s events, played for a D1 college, but doesn't get out as much as he should. His 5.5 days are pretty much behind him except for the occasional moment of brilliance. (In TW video ratings he is probably a 2.5-3.0)

Please excuse any profanity on either of our parts.

Part 1 of the warmup, hitting groundies. Notice where he takes out my Speed-Drack radar with an errant backhand around 2:20.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=jUbvCg-TCLU

Part 2 of the warmup.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=EfYer2Q0cA8

Me taking some volleys. Tough to see since my shirt blends into the windscreen.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=i59lMNaloTc

J

J011yroger · Jun 23, 2007

^^^ Oh yea, and spare me the 3.5 comments

J

Milano · Jun 23, 2007

What grips are you using on your backhand?

thanks

mrHan · Jun 23, 2007

He he... I used to have one of those ball machines. Hope your wrist gets better.

OrangeOne · Jun 23, 2007

Dude - you're doing that with a recovering-sprained-wrist? Ouch. I hope the physio said it's ok.

I'm not going to comment on the strokes - you know you have excellent strokes

Oh - watching someone with a sprained wrist almost trip over a ball on the way to video themselves... please clear the balls from the court next time

J011yroger · Jun 23, 2007

Milano said:
What grips are you using on your backhand?

thanks

Continental right hand, semiwestern left hand for most rally balls.

I spread my hands out a bit, and go more eastern with my left when I want to flatten out the ball for a winner from inside the court.

And I will bunch them both together way down at the bottom and cheat to nearly full western with my left hand when I want to hit the big top.

J

WildVolley · Jun 23, 2007

Seriously, if you want someone to critique your strokes(not saying you do), you're going to have to move the camera closer. On my computer Youtube quality sucks in any case, but you are so far from the camera I can't tell if your shots are going in or not. From a great distance it looks like you're hitting reasonably well.

todd03blown · Jun 23, 2007

thx for sharing

J011yroger · Jun 23, 2007

OrangeOne said:
Dude - you're doing that with a recovering-sprained-wrist? Ouch. I hope the physio said it's ok.

I'm not going to comment on the strokes - you know you have excellent strokes

Oh - watching someone with a sprained wrist almost trip over a ball on the way to video themselves... please clear the balls from the court next time

I can't stay on the couch any longer going to lose what is left of my mind. Backhands don't hurt, I just don't have the strength to hit forehands. Or slice backhands for that matter.

J

J011yroger · Jun 23, 2007

WildVolley said:
Seriously, if you want someone to critique your strokes(not saying you do), you're going to have to move the camera closer. On my computer Youtube quality sucks in any case, but you are so far from the camera I can't tell if your shots are going in or not. From a great distance it looks like you're hitting reasonably well.

Nah, I am not looking for critique I have access to some of the best coaching in the country if not the world.

I might have missed one or two long, but the bottom usually falls out of my ball before it goes out. And I might have put one or two in the doubles alley, but If I recall I didn't miss anything by more than 4 inches. You could hear the one I shanked, but even that went in. I was pretty impressed with my consistency given the first time I hit in 2 weeks+.

But my backhand has always been pretty bulletproof. My forehand does the damage, but can be hot and cold.

J

J011yroger · Jun 23, 2007

mrHan said:
He he... I used to have one of those ball machines. Hope your wrist gets better.

Thanks for the well wishes, better every day. Hope to be hitting full speed in another week.

J

J011yroger · Jun 23, 2007

todd03blown said:
thx for sharing

No prob, I am excited at the prospect of filling it out with all of my strokes, and matchplay against ppl of varying abilitys and styles.

J

shindemac · Jun 23, 2007

move the camara closer. did u shot that at night. kinda dark or dreary or smthg.

OrangeOne · Jun 23, 2007

J011yroger said:
I can't stay on the couch any longer going to lose what is left of my mind. Backhands don't hurt, I just don't have the strength to hit forehands. Or slice backhands for that matter.

J

Well if they don't hurt that's a good thing! Hope the recovery continues (but remember not to rush it - double-recovery is just horrid....)

J011yroger · Jun 23, 2007

shindemac said:
move the camara closer. did u shot that at night. kinda dark or dreary or smthg.

Nah, broad daylight. It is my first time using the camera on a tennis court, so I will experiment with positioning in the future. I think it is a nice way to show the whole court, and get some perspective for the ball trajectory.

J

jmverdugo · Jun 23, 2007

J011yroger said:
...I spread my hands out a bit, and go more eastern with my left when I want to flatten out the ball for a winner from inside the court.

And I will bunch them both together way down at the bottom and cheat to nearly full western with my left hand when I want to hit the big top.

J

It really works inst, i do exactly the same thing.

J011yroger · Jun 23, 2007

jmverdugo said:
It really works inst, i do exactly the same thing.

Had no clue I did it until a tour player pointed it out to me last summer. But I definately space my hands when I go to flatten the ball out.

J

boojay · Jun 23, 2007

Playing with a sprained wrist-yer crazy my friend.

I like you

MTXR · Jun 23, 2007

uhh... i don't think thats the magic stick.... are you using a new stick?

J011yroger · Jun 23, 2007

MTXR said:
uhh... i don't think thats the magic stick.... are you using a new stick?

That is my N90, 13.6oz 5phl. Same as ever.

I was trying out Pacific Poly Xforce. They wanted me to try it. Normally I play ALU Rough. But the racquet is the same.

J

Andres · Jun 23, 2007

I love the quality of the cam. I don't know... perhaps is the colours, or the contrast, or both, plus the colour of the courts, and the sun, but I like it.

It's like watching animation, somehow

Deleted member 6835 · Jun 23, 2007

Jo11yroger i take my hat off to you for being able to hit such a great backhand with an N90. that in itself is an accomplishment

OrangeOne · Jun 23, 2007

tennis_nerd22 said:
Jo11yroger i take my hat off to you for being able to hit such a great backhand with an N90. that in itself is an accomplishment

More amazing: he could have played every shot in that video with a different N90

. Gotta love having 14 identical sticks......

J011yroger · Jun 23, 2007

OrangeOne said:
More amazing: he could have played every shot in that video with a different N90 . Gotta love having 14 identical sticks......

Sounds like a good conditioning drill, hit a backhand, drop the racquet, run to the sideline, grab another, hit a backhand, drop the racquet, run to the sideline, grab another Ad Infinitum.

J

OrangeOne · Jun 23, 2007

J011yroger said:
Sounds like a good conditioning drill, hit a backhand, drop the racquet, run to the sideline, grab another, hit a backhand, drop the racquet, run to the sideline, grab another Ad Infinitum.

J

Ok - so call me picky, but when I read that drill, I see a huge pile of n90s scattered on the court. I think you should rework the drill to include dropping them after running to the sideline

Great drill for co-ordination work and also helping you get down to the ball (racquet

).

Hmm, how can I re-jig this and actually use it for the kids I coach.... I actually have some ideas :grin:

J011yroger · Jun 23, 2007

OrangeOne said:
Ok - so call me picky, but when I read that drill, I see a huge pile of n90s scattered on the court. I think you should rework the drill to include dropping them after running to the sideline

Great drill for co-ordination work and also helping you get down to the ball (racquet ).

Hmm, how can I re-jig this and actually use it for the kids I coach.... I actually have some ideas :grin:

Well you already do recovery drills where they hit a ball then recover to a poly circle on the court right?

J

drakulie · Jun 23, 2007

Joy11, great vid. Very solid BH. Thanks for sharing, and hope that wrist gets better soon. I, along with others am surprised you are even hitting with an injury like that.

Ahhhhh what we do for the love of tennis!

35ft6 · Jun 23, 2007

What kind of camcorder did you use? I actually like the way the picture looks although I can't really see the ball. It almost looks like film out of the seventies. You mess with interlacing and add a film grain filter to it, it would look like film almost.

Don't like how your feet comes up on the follow through sometimes, but it's obviously a dependable stroke.

J011yroger · Jun 23, 2007

35ft6 said:
What kind of camcorder did you use? I actually like the way the picture looks although I can't really see the ball. It almost looks like film out of the seventies. You mess with interlacing and add a film grain filter to it, it would look like film almost.

Samsung Digital Sports Camcorder. Tinyest little thing.

http://www.samsung.com/products/camcorder/digitalmemory/index.asp

My first day out with it, so I wasn't sure what to expect.

35ft6 said:
Don't like how your feet comes up on the follow through sometimes, but it's obviously a dependable stroke.

You mean how my left foot comes up on the toe?

J

35ft6 · Jun 23, 2007

J011yroger said:
http://www.samsung.com/products/camcorder/digitalmemory/index.asp

Wow. 680K? You're sacrificing a lot for size. Still, it looks cool. Right now I'm sort of obsessed with going hi def for camera and stuff, so that's probably why I'm shocked.

You mean how my left foot comes up on the toe?

J

I know that part is normal, I was talking about when it comes up then flies around so your left foot is in front of the right on the follow through.

J011yroger · Jun 23, 2007

35ft6 said:
Wow. 680K? You're sacrificing a lot for size. Still, it looks cool.

Ya I saw it and it was like the cutest little thing. I just had to have it. This is the only thing I use it for, so it isn't that big of a sacrifice. I would pick up something with more steam if I was gonna use it for other things.

35ft6 said:
I know that part is normal, I was talking about when it comes up then flies around so your left foot is in front of the right on the follow through.

Lol yea, I put a little extree on those. I don't do it on purpose it is just my momentum bringing me around. Certainly not something I would advise on a routine crosscourt rally ball!

J

Ultra2HolyGrail · Jun 23, 2007

Looks like your follow through needs work. It looks like you're trying to choke yourself after you hit the ball. After contact looks like a sweeping upward motion, like the finishing of a golf swing. My opinion for what it's worth.

After contact drive forward more, both arms and the racquet should not swipe upward and the racquet face should be facing the fence after follow through, not over your neck and facing the bottom of the court. GL..

kevywevyy · Jun 23, 2007

I don't mean to be a party pooper, but there's just something about the motion as a whole that doesn't look right.
amazing nonetheless w/ an injury...

Ultra2HolyGrail · Jun 23, 2007

Also i should add watch the left foot, it should be more stabilized after you hit the shot, it's comming around with your whole body, and with the upright follow through, causing you to do a almost 360 turn.

J011yroger · Jun 23, 2007

Ultra2HolyGrail said:
Looks like your follow through needs work. It looks like you're trying to choke yourself after you hit the ball. After contact looks like a sweeping upward motion, like the finishing of a golf swing. My opinion for what it's worth.

After contact drive forward more, both arms and the racquet should not swipe upward and the racquet face should be facing the fence after follow through, not over your neck and facing the bottom of the court. GL..

My follow through is fine.

Agassi, Roddick, Nadal, finish like me.

Baghdatis, Hewitt, finish like you describe.

Safin, kind of in between.

It is more of a style thing, as long as you are decelerating safely either way is fine.

Why from a technical application aspect would you think I needed to change my followthrough? What would you like to change about the stroke?

What in game consequenses do you see my longer followthrough having that would be solved by your method?

Or what ball striking advantages would be gained?

J

J011yroger · Jun 23, 2007

kevywevyy said:
I don't mean to be a party pooper, but there's just something about the motion as a whole that doesn't look right.
amazing nonetheless w/ an injury...

LOL, it doesn't hurt when I hit backhands, that is why I was doing it.

J

Final_Match_Point · Jun 23, 2007

I drool at your two-hander. Its so fluid.

but one question, Are you supposed to keep your arm strait even for the follow through?

zapvor · Jun 23, 2007

i love this idea you got going. dedication. practicing with injury! even the pros dont do that, and they got big money on the line!

J011yroger · Jun 23, 2007

Final_Match_Point said:
I drool at your two-hander. Its so fluid.

but one question, Are you supposed to keep your arm strait even for the follow through?

Nope, after you hit the ball your arms break at the elbows and wrists, but in a natural deceleration. If you didn't let your arms bend after contact it would put undue strain on your body.

When I am looking to hit big topspin my arms have some bend in the at contact aswell.

J

J011yroger · Jun 23, 2007

zapvor said:
i love this idea you got going. dedication. practicing with injury! even the pros dont do that, and they got big money on the line!

I had to do something or I would be 500lbs by the time I was healed.

J

Voltron · Jun 23, 2007

J011yroger said:
^^^ Oh yea, and spare me the 3.5 comments

J

Don't worry, I'll rate you a 4.0/

Kidding aside, nice strokes.

Ultra2HolyGrail · Jun 23, 2007

J011yroger said:
My follow through is fine.

Agassi, Roddick, Nadal, finish like me.

Baghdatis, Hewitt, finish like you describe.

Safin, kind of in between.

It is more of a style thing, as long as you are decelerating safely either way is fine.

Why from a technical application aspect would you think I needed to change my followthrough? What would you like to change about the stroke?

What in game consequenses do you see my longer followthrough having that would be solved by your method?

Or what ball striking advantages would be gained?

J

It's to exaggerated imo. The extra time your arm is going around your neck you could be getting into postion. Do you hit a good two hander on the run and recover well after you hit ? These balls are comming right at you and your technique is breaking down without running, almost doing a 360...
I think it would be easy for you to learn but you would need to change. The potential is there, looks like some bad habits have formed though. Are you self taught?

Moses Man · Jun 23, 2007

Ultra2HolyGrail said:
The potential is there, looks like some bad habits have formed though. Are you self taught?

Wow. Not even gonna touch that one.

J011yroger--for what it's worth, nice video! Hope your wrist heals quickly...

Spindarella · Jun 23, 2007

Ultra2HolyGrail said:
Are you self taught?

what you were saying had merit until you asked that question.

J011yroger · Jun 23, 2007

Ultra2HolyGrail said:
It's to exaggerated imo. The extra time your arm is going around your neck you could be getting into postion. Do you hit a good two hander on the run and recover well after you hit ? These balls are comming right at you and your technique is breaking down without running, almost doing a 360...
I think it would be easy for you to learn but you would need to change. The potential is there, looks like some bad habits have formed though. Are you self taught?

Yea, I hit it very well on the run. And your almost 360 is barely past 90. It should be obvious that when I am comming off the ground and my back foot is comming around that it isn't your generic crosscourt rally backhand.

Getting in position to do what? My recovery point for the crosscourt shots I was hitting was 2-3 steps away.

All the followthrough is is a natural deceleration, If we could do a frame by frame, I would wager that it takes the same amount of time to complete either followthrough, or that mine actually took less time.

It is in the same vein as finishing a forehand over your shoulder, or across your body. You don't finish forehands with your hitting face towards the fence do you?

J

Ultra2HolyGrail · Jun 23, 2007

Spindarella said:
what you were saying had merit until you asked that question.

It's a legit question, and too many people dont realise it's very hard to have really good tecnique and learning all on your own with your own ball machine. Not saying thats the case.
A good pro corrects the "little" things that can hold you back for years. So common especially on the serve at 4.0 level.

Jolly, actually on my forheand the face does face the fence after follow through, it comes over my neck evenly, not at a high angle, same with the backhand. Heck nadals forehand swing over his head on the follow through, so it's possible to be unique. Every player has unique strokes, you gotta do what looks natural to you. The main thing really is your comming around with your left foot to much, imho.

J011yroger · Jun 23, 2007

Ultra2HolyGrail said:
Jolly, actually on my forheand the face does face the fence after follow through, it comes over my neck evenly, not at a high angle, same with the backhand. Heck nadals forehand swing over his head on the follow through, so it's possible to be unique. Every player has unique strokes, you gotta do what looks natural to you. The main thing really is your comming around with your left foot to much, imho.

I haven't seen you play, but I think that you must use push type strokes, FH and BH, whereas I use pull type strokes FH and BH. No right or wrong, just different ways.

Throw up some vids on youtube if you are brave and we will compare, but I am fairly confidant that you play a flatter push type stroke as compared to my more spin/pace pull stroke.

And if you thought my backhand was too exaggerated, wait till I put up the forehand

J

Ultra2HolyGrail · Jun 23, 2007

J011yroger said:
I haven't seen you play, but I think that you must use push type strokes, FH and BH, whereas I use pull type strokes FH and BH. No right or wrong, just different ways.

Good point, but still watch your video closely, the technique breaks down at the last few shots, and the left foot and your body whips around. A few little changes could improve your game big time.

Yes bring the forehand on

Someday, cant right now old camcorder, ill post video, i can hear it now

NLBwell · Jun 23, 2007

J011yroger, very high level strokes. The nitpicking (and I will do it too) about your left foot coming through and the followthrough are symptoms, not the problem. You tend to move your head and right shoulder through the stroke and upwards little quickly (a bit of a bail-out) when the ball is close to you, or high (mostly at the start of the video). This pulls your racket through around your head and brings your left foot through. When you had to reach for the ball a bit (out or down), your head stayed still longer. I would expect you to hit well on the run because of this. Just keep your head and shoulder into the shot a split second longer. Again, very good strokes, just nitpicking.

Duzza · Jun 23, 2007

Good stuff J011yroger, although I'm with the others when your follow through looks a bit weird, but who cares if the end result is good right!

J011yroger Stroke Inventory.

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