mike danny
Bionic Poster
Well, it's a null point considering Fed lost early.
When will the weak era debate switch from 04-07 to basically the 2015-21 era?
- Thread starter DanG7
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NatF
Bionic Poster
Well you said draws right...that was the draw. Fed wasn't good enough to navigate it but he was still handed a tough draw. Inb4 someone tries to make out like 2015'Dal elevates Djokovic's draw.
mike danny
Bionic Poster
Yes, it wasn't an easy draw, but I'd still put Djokovic's ahead. Gaudio isn't winning the 2015 French for example.
NatF
Bionic Poster
Fair enough.
NoleFam
Bionic Poster
If his paths were so hard, why could not one top 10 player beat him the entire year?
mike danny
Bionic Poster
Because Fed got up for the biggest matches all year long? Why couldn't anyone stop Djokovic from winning 4 in a row if the field was stronger?
NoleFam
Bionic Poster
2004 is just not a stronger year than 2015 man. You can believe whatever you want though. Federer could have won the CYGS that year but couldn't beat past his prime Guga.
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D
Deleted member 748597
Guest
Kuerten peaked for that match. His highest level.
RS
Bionic Poster
2004-2009 vs 2011-2016?
mike danny
Bionic Poster
I didn't say it was stronger. I said they're equal.
mike danny
Bionic Poster
Your avatar is my favorite ever Raimi meme
RS
Bionic Poster
Eye test.
El_Yotamo
Hall of Fame
I'm not one for weak era debates but I like your new avatar
D
Deleted member 748597
Guest
I missed the part where that's my problem.Your avatar is my favorite ever Raimi meme
NatF
Bionic Poster
Because outside of the slams it was actually Fed who a bit inconsistent/missed tournaments? No guarantee Fed beats Safin in both fall masters indoors if he plays them for example, likewise he's not a shoe-in versus Agassi in Cinci etc...Djokovic in 2015 chucked in several rather lackluster matches against the top 10 e.g. Montreal vs Murray, Cinci versus Federer, YEC RR vs Federer. He did infact lose to Henman who was firmly top 10 at the end of 2004 in Rottadam.
Apart from I guess the FO every slam in 2004 had a more competitive and slightly better field IMO.
NoleFam
Bionic Poster
He did play very well that day, no doubt. However, by 2004 his movement had declined considerably because of the hip surgery. Nalbandian played smart against by dropshotting and making him run. Federer tried to outhit him on clay which was not a good strategy. Not many people can outhit Guga on clay.
NoleFam
Bionic Poster
I would say 2005 is about equal not 2004, but fair enough.
NoleFam
Bionic Poster
RS
Bionic Poster
I never asked you though but if you go with the NoleSlam answerI believe you have beaten this topic to death and @Nole Slam already answered it.
RS
Bionic Poster
You never answered that one
NoleFam
Bionic Poster
Every great champ has a few bad matches though. It's almost impossible to play that high of a level the entire year. I just don't think the field in 2004 was stronger than than the field in 2015.
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mike danny
Bionic Poster
Look at little Nole Slam Jr.
Red Rick
Bionic Poster
You do realise your literal argument is 2004 had a stronger top 10 cause Fed embarrased himself vs a guy outside the top 10 right?
mike danny
Bionic Poster
My entire argument was that Fed had tougher paths at the majors in 2004 than Djokovic in 2015, so there's no way 2004 is weaker.
Only Fed's inconsistency prevented him from playing as many matches against the top 10 that year as Djokovic in 2015.
NatF
Bionic Poster
That wasn't a knock on Djokovic, when he was off his game in 2015 he still made finals - when Fed was off in 2004 he was out R3. That's a big plus for Djokovic when comparing their years. It does mean that the 2004 top 10 didn't really get a shot at Fed off his game though. Only really IW and the USO stick out against Agassi as matches against the top 10 where Fed was below par. Even in Toronto Fed was terrible against Johansson in the SF but played great against Roddick. He was very good at raising his level in the late rounds in those days.
As far as the field in 2015 being stronger, we each have a different cart in this race lol. I think the fields were very different and not just the names. In 2015 my feeling was that there was a clear decline from a lot of the top 10 but there was no new gen to replace. It was a bit stagnant, with a very consistent top 10 but not much else aside from some stand out performances from Fed and Wawa. With 2004 there was a bit of residual surface specialisation and more inconsistency in the top 10 but I think there were more high level competitors at most of the slams.
Anyway I consider the career inflation era starting from mid-2016, not 2015. The field in 2015 and even two years later in 2017 was really different.
NoleFam
Bionic Poster
This is fair enough. 2004 had its moments: AO with Safin/Agassi, Roddick in Wimbledon final and Agassi at the USO. It wasn't a terrible year by any means.
I think 2014 was one of the strongest years of that decade after 2011-2013 and then 2015 fell on in behind those years. Djokovic dominated but had lots of tough matches and close calls that entire year, until the fall where he ran over everyone I believe except Federer in ATP finals RR.
I agree with this.
NatF
Bionic Poster
Yeah I think 2014 was a really good year, I think the Lost Gen taking a step back a year later hurt a bit.
Djokovic was imperious in the fall of 2015, in that 2012-2015 window he was nearly unbeatable in that part of the year and especially indoors. The only black mark on him there was not double bagelling Berdych in Beijing 2014, let him off the hook
Third Serve
Talk Tennis Guru
The one that got away.Yeah I think 2014 was a really good year, I think the Lost Gen taking a step back a year later hurt a bit.
Djokovic was imperious in the fall of 2015, in that 2012-2015 window he was nearly unbeatable in that part of the year and especially indoors. The only black mark on him there was not double bagelling Berdych in Beijing 2014, let him off the hook
Novak could have been the GOAT. Sad.
RS
Bionic Poster
This is how calm disccusions about strength of the field should really beYeah I think 2014 was a really good year, I think the Lost Gen taking a step back a year later hurt a bit.
Djokovic was imperious in the fall of 2015, in that 2012-2015 window he was nearly unbeatable in that part of the year and especially indoors. The only black mark on him there was not double bagelling Berdych in Beijing 2014, let him off the hook
NoleFam
Bionic Poster
Yeah I think 2014 was a really good year, I think the Lost Gen taking a step back a year later hurt a bit.
Djokovic was imperious in the fall of 2015, in that 2012-2015 window he was nearly unbeatable in that part of the year and especially indoors. The only black mark on him there was not double bagelling Berdych in Beijing 2014, let him off the hook
Lost gen (Raonic, Nishikori, Dimitrov) had one great year together: 2014. They never had another year where they all played good at the same time.
Yea that was his peak in the fall season: 2012-2015. He let Berdych have those two games. Didn't want to embarrass him anymore than that. Lol
NatF
Bionic Poster
That title is out of reach now man it's forever with Goffin.
Being serious I remember that match thread man, people were asking if this is the best anyone had ever played lol. Super tennis for sure. Hard to know when a performance like that will come around again, can't imagine anyone making comments like that about todays era unless they're hitting the crack pipe.
NatF
Bionic Poster
This is how calm disccusions about strength of the field should really be
You prefer the chaos lol.
I was praying for the embarassment of the double bagel man.
Third Serve
Talk Tennis Guru
Yeah Novak was insane during the fall swings in those years, even if he was sometimes patchy earlier on in the season. Not sure if I ever saw that match specifically but I’ve definitely seen a few of his other triumphs.
NatF
Bionic Poster
It was like Doha 2016 against Nadal.
Third Serve
Talk Tennis Guru
Well I suppose that’s all I need to hear lol
NoleFam
Bionic Poster
It was pretty brutal. Djokovic was completely on. Didn't even let Berdych play. I think he had 5-0 40-15 in the 2nd set and took his foot off the gas.
RS
Bionic Poster
Nah it is just the next best option.
Third Serve
Talk Tennis Guru
I think the last time Novak had something approaching a prime-level fall season was 2018. Guy won Shanghai in a dominant display without even losing serve and went on to have a really, really good WTF before that match with Zverev. Still an odd final. I mean, Zed definitely played a great match, but it’s still odd.
NatF
Bionic Poster
I thought for sure he was matching Fed at the YEC that year.
RS
Bionic Poster
I learn that more and more.
RS
Bionic Poster
Never noticedYou wondering why usually calm posters are irrate with you?
Ganstaz003
Rookie
I made a full thread about this topic, which you can check out if you're interested. I provided evidence and examples of the information I am attempting to convey!
The fallacy lies in that Hewitt, Roddick and Co are done winning Slams. Whereas Tsisipas, Zverev and Co will start to win many, many Slams once Novak Djokovic gets out of their way.
Of course, fans of Roger and Rafa wanted them to stop Djokovic specifically last year, and the year before that. Hence, all the anger and frustration!
Of course, fans of Roger and Rafa wanted them to stop Djokovic specifically last year, and the year before that. Hence, all the anger and frustration!
Sunny014
Legend
Lucky for these weaklings that the Big 3 have to get out of their way.
Hewitt-Roddick etc etc did not have that luxury, Sampras got out of their way or was removed by them but someone same aged as them arrived who was the GOAT and nowhere to hide for them
Aabye5
G.O.A.T.
Hewitt benefited greatly from the decline of Sampras
Sunny014
Legend
Agreed.
Even Agassi benefitted, the guy had no competition in 00-03 period.
Pete was nothing outside the USO and Grass and even there he had declined.
Agassi added 3 AOs in 4 years, he could have done 4 in 4 if he played all 4 years
Hewitt added 2 slams in his kitty but he was the top guy then, so can't complain, thats how nature planned things.