CYGS is not that special compared to NCYGS...
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CCPass
Semi-Pro
Nole Slam refers specifically to NCYGS starting with W, so practice what you preach.
game..set..match
Semi-Pro
I would argue that it is the fundamental component. If you are holding all 4 slam titles at the same time it means the feat was achieved within 52 weeks. Which means it all boils down to the petty difference of a year vs calendar year definitions …but both are still 52 weeks.
It’s a totally unreasonable take to claim the ncygs is not an equal feat to the cygs. They are absolutely equal.
alexio
G.O.A.T.
don't mislead people here, looks like only you care about when exactly it started, but beard never said about it also in this thread, ncygs is ncygs and no need to create some another imaginary title to that, it could have any sequence but just coz of different beginning of a sequence it won't change its meaning hah
Spencer Gore
Legend
You can think what you like. The entire tennis establishment and the entire history of tennis since the Grand Slam became possible disagrees with you.
Sudacafan
Bionic Poster
So unfair that if Nole wins next USO, that will just still be called a CYGS.
game..set..match
Semi-Pro
Actually, no that has not always been the consensus. This has been a controversial topic in the tennis establishment for decades.
alexio
G.O.A.T.
true
Spencer Gore
Legend
Evidence?
RF-18
Talk Tennis Guru
In both scenarios, you do hold all four major events at the same time, so that's the identical similarity, you are correct on that note:
but the term Grand Slam refers to a particular achievement: winning Australian Open, Roland Garros, Wimbledon Championships, and the US Open under the same calender year. You need to come to terms with the meaning of the achievement.
game..set..match
Semi-Pro
There’s this thing called the internet. It’s really useful.
CCPass
Semi-Pro
You’re the intellectually dishonest one, as you lump other categories with men’s singles to prove your rarity point, which is false - in the Open Era, CYGS and NCYGS (even if you treat them three all the same) were only done once so no one is more rare than the other.
Spencer Gore
Legend
I know. So where's your evidence? You're the one making the claim.
game..set..match
Semi-Pro
I have no problem acknowledging the meaning. The issue is when people claim that the ncygs is not as difficult as the cygs, but it clearly is.
Spencer Gore
Legend
The Grand Slam is its own distinct achievement: it means winning all four majors in a season.
Winning multiple majors in a row is a separate category. The record holder is Budge with 6. So Djokovic is currently halfway to that record also. His current record is 4.
Winning multiple majors in a row is a separate category. The record holder is Budge with 6. So Djokovic is currently halfway to that record also. His current record is 4.
Phoenix1983
G.O.A.T.
Yes, that's another reason why all this hairsplitting is rather silly. I've long maintained that if there's one (male) GOAT it's Rod, but if Novak somehow completes the GS (I've got my doubts) these two will be pretty much equal in my book, with equally impressive GSs to boot (though I still tend to think the GS is somewhat overrated in the grand scheme of things).
Having said that... the BOAT remains Pistol and the real GOAT is my girl Navratilova.
Winning this USO would make Novak Djokovic the - essentially undisputed - male GOAT, IMHO.
He'll effectively be bagging all the main criteria at once (record number of slams, CYGS, record number of years ranked No 1 - if we exclude Pancho's debatable case from the pre-OE).
Spencer Gore
Legend
He would have a hell of a strong case.
Ronaldo
Bionic Poster
He had that before
In this case rarity can be logically deduced from probability. And the CYGS is rarer than the NCYGS. The only reason is appears not to be from the data is due to a low sample size. Which is why including the women's singles is a valid thing to do.
CCPass
Semi-Pro
Because you lump the three together. Otherwise all four combinations are equally likely. Full stop.
I don't lump them together. The definition of NCYGS does.
CCPass
Semi-Pro
NCYGS is the umbrella term and Nole Slam is the NCYGS starting with W. So CYGS is rarer than NCYGS, but CYGS is equally rare as Nole Slam. If you insist.
Why are you talking about the Nole Slam? The thread title is specifically "CYGS is not that special compared to NCYGS...". Also are you telling me that if Djokovic had won a different NCYGS combination you wouldn't have called that one the Nole Slam?
CCPass
Semi-Pro
Because Nole Slam is one combination of NCYGS. So why not talk about it?
Your argument is based on name but never cares to address the exact sequence, which is the key point being discussed here.
I don't need to address anything. The exact sequence is only important because that's the one he actually won. If he had won a different one then that would have been the focus (for you). Which goes to show that the exact sequence wasn't actually important. It's that he won 4 in a row. And winning 4 in a row in a specific sequence is more difficult and rarer than winning 4 in a row in any sequence (the previously mentioned sequence excluded). Which the OP wrongly questioned.
CCPass
Semi-Pro
Of course you don’t. Not like I invited you to chime in.
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stray_cat
New User
After Laver in 1969, the closest to the Grand Slam was - Bjorn Borg, twice, in 1978 and 1980 (he lost finals of US Open). 1979, he lost in US Open QF . Then, the AO was held in December. If he won any of those US Opens, he would have traveled to Australia for the fourth (and GS).
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After him, players who crossed more than half way to GS were:
Matz Wilander - lost in Wimbledon 1988 QF 1988.
Jim Courier - lost in Wimbledon third round 1992.
Novak Djokovic - also lost in Wimbledon third round 2016.
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Me think: holding all 4 is equally hard thing to do. Maybe, RG-W combo in CYGS makes it a little bit harder to achieve compared to Nole slam.
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After him, players who crossed more than half way to GS were:
Matz Wilander - lost in Wimbledon 1988 QF 1988.
Jim Courier - lost in Wimbledon third round 1992.
Novak Djokovic - also lost in Wimbledon third round 2016.
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Me think: holding all 4 is equally hard thing to do. Maybe, RG-W combo in CYGS makes it a little bit harder to achieve compared to Nole slam.
Krish872007
Talk Tennis Guru
Budge also won the Grand Slam, so there's that
I chimed in because you called someone intellectually dishonest for including women's singles to show that the CYGS is rarer than the NCYGS.
Sudacafan
Bionic Poster
If Nole doesn’t win next USO, we should ask him if he would trade his NCYGS(W) for a CYGS.
CCPass
Semi-Pro
So you came uninvited
Tennisfan339
Professional
So, if Serena broke up because of CYGS pressure, why she crumbled in numerous slams finals all this years? Maybe it wasn't CYGS pressure at all, but something else?
Maybe just a bad day? Not hitting the ball well. That can happen to anyone, including Serena, Federer, Nadal Djokovic and I am sure it happened to Graf, Navratilova & co as well.
Plus, Vinci isn't an easy opponent. She had an unusual game. A lot of slices, variations, was often going to the net. When she was in good f and playing well, she was tricky. And if she was playing her first Slam Semifinal, it means she was most certainly playing well. Typically the kind of player who can push you to make plenty of UE and self-destruct if you're in a bad day.
Plus, if I remember correctly, it was a hot and very windy day. Everything Serena hated. Playing against someone who abuses slices in windy conditions is never easy, even for Serena.
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CCPass
Semi-Pro
I how he does, so you can save your question.
That same old pathetic thread that resurfaces every time someone's fave is trying to go for the CYGS so they downplay it and equal it to the NGYGS. Twenty people on this forum with no understanding of the historical importance and the pressure it takes to achieve the ultimate tennis achievement in a calendar year want to change the correct perception of the world.
All of sports yearly results are based on one year, not on overlapping years. This shouldn't be so hard to understand.
Serena failed under the pressure achieving it (the other times she failed afterwards were due to age and the other players playing amazing tennis). Djokovic failed before, let's see if he can make it this time. Federer, Nadal, Navratilova... all failed.
All of sports yearly results are based on one year, not on overlapping years. This shouldn't be so hard to understand.
Serena failed under the pressure achieving it (the other times she failed afterwards were due to age and the other players playing amazing tennis). Djokovic failed before, let's see if he can make it this time. Federer, Nadal, Navratilova... all failed.
For the CYGS all 4 Slams are “must wins”, even the start at AO, or the next 3 are meaningless and you can only try again a year later.
The advantage of the NCYGS is that you can start whenever you want and after that there are only 3 “must wins” in that sense.
That’s why the CYGS is in the middle between 5 random Slams in a row and 4 random Slams in a row.
The advantage of the NCYGS is that you can start whenever you want and after that there are only 3 “must wins” in that sense.
That’s why the CYGS is in the middle between 5 random Slams in a row and 4 random Slams in a row.
I don't need to be invited to point out when someone posts something incorrect.
CCPass
Semi-Pro
Uninvited you were /post
So you need an invitation to post in a thread on a public forum?
CCPass
Semi-Pro
Of course not. Just move on.
Sure thing buddy...
Ronaldo
Bionic Poster
Copied from Tennis Majors:
September 24, 1938: The day Don Budge became the first player to complete the Grand Slam
Every day, Tennis Majors takes you back to one of the most iconic moments in tennis history. On September 24, 1938, American Don Budge became the first player to complete the Grand Slam of all four majors in a calendar year.
Alexandre Sokolowski
September 24, 2020
WHAT HAPPENED EXACTLY ON THAT DAY
On this day, September 24, 1938, Don Budge completed the first Grand Slam in tennis history. To achieve that feat, the American defeated his doubles partner Gene Mako in the final of the US Nationals (which later became the US Open), 6-3, 6-8, 6-2, 6-1. On top of that, the world No 1 also triumphed in doubles (partnering Mako) and in mixed doubles (partnering Alice Marble). It was the last major title won by Budge as an amateur, as he turned professional at the end of the year and therefore could not attend any more Grand Slam tournaments.
THE PLAYERS
Don Budge was born in California in 1915. After playing various sports as a child, he took up tennis, where, helped by his size (he was 6ft 1in) and he developed a very powerful serve which would take him to the top. In 1933, Budge quit his studies at Berkeley to play tennis with the US Davis Cup team. As he had been raised on California’s hard courts, it took him a while to adjust to the grass courts of the East Coast, but with time, he mastered that surface enough to triumph at Wimbledon, in 1937, defeating Gottfried von Cramm in the final (6-3, 6-4, 6-2). A few weeks later, the two players faced each other again in a famous Davis Cup tie, in which Hitler himself called Von Cramm on the phone to tell him that losing was not an option. At the end of one of the greatest matches in tennis history, Budge finally prevailed, 6-8, 5-7, 6-4, 6-2, 8-6. He would cross Von Cramm’s path one more time in 1937, in the US Nationals final (winning 6-1, 7-9, 6-1, 3-6, 6-1). In 1938, Budge continued his winning streak, triumphing at the Australian Championships (defeating John Bromwich, 6-4, 6-2, 6-1), at Roland-Garros (beating Roderich Menzel, 6-3, 6-2, 6-4) and at Wimbledon (outplaying Henry Austin, 6-1, 6-0, 6-3). He was now the undisputed world No 1 tennis amateur.
Gene Mako was born in 1916. A decent player in singles, he was more successful in doubles, where he had claimed three Grand Slam titles (the US Nationals in 1936, Wimbledon in 1937 and 1938).
THE PLACE
The US National Championships, also known as the US Nationals, was established in 1881, and it moved several times locations throughout the 20th century. First held in August 1881 on grass courts at the Newport Casino, on Rhode Island, the tournament moved to New-York in 1915, where it was held at the West Side Tennis Club, at Forest Hills, with the exception of years 1921-1923 (when the event was moved to Philadelphia).
THE FACTS
At the beginning of the 1938 US Nationals, Budge was the second player in tennis history to be one title away from completing the Grand Slam. In fact, the expression itself had been applied to tennis by an American journalist for the first time in 1933, when the Australian player Jack Crawford claimed the three first major tournaments of the year and went just one set away from clinching the fourth. Crawford managed to lead two sets to one in the US Nationals final, but he was eventually beaten by Fred Perry (6–3, 11–13, 4–6, 6–0, 6–1).
Djokovic_is_the_best#1
Bionic Poster
Djokovic is already the GOAT now. Only way it changes again is if Federer or Nadal win another slam. Big pressure on Fedal!
ttwreader
Hall of Fame
Thanks. After crazily searching on Google, it seems that the American journalist in bold was Alan Gould and the term "grand slam" seems to be borrowed from Bridge (a card game) meaning "sweep all the tricks" and in tennis at the time of 1933, meaning to win all "majors" (not exact names at the time) tournaments from the countries that had won Davis cup (Australia, France, Great Britain and the U.S.) Before Jack Crawford in 1933, no body was close to sweep all of them, not mentioning in the same year or not.
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Sudacafan
Bionic Poster
Really? Where did you read that?
Sudacafan
Bionic Poster
Your questions are not stupid.
