No, these WTA teenagers aren't yet ready.

Jason Swerve · Oct 19, 2021

sureshs said:
Any of these WTA teenagers are a million times better than the old farts commenting on this forum

In this day and age, I'm not even sure about that. I can hit an overhead and a volley. I was damned good even 10 years ago. I'd hope they could beat me without permitting me a single game, but that wouldn't happen. And besides that, I used to coach. None of these WTA teenagers can coach you or anyone else. If you've been posting for damned near 20 years and don't understand the difference between coaching/commentating and playing, you must've been posting joke pictures and other nonsense like these other kids. Pitiful way to waste 20 years.

Graf1stClass · Oct 26, 2021

Guess who just won her first WTA match Jason?

Jason Swerve · Oct 26, 2021

Are you fishing to post here every single time the girls win a match?

Graf1stClass · Oct 26, 2021

Jason Swerve said:
Are you fishing to post here every single time the girls win a match?

No, only tournaments

Dolgopolov85 · Oct 26, 2021

Graf1stClass said:
Guess who just won her first WTA match Jason?

Was it him who said she won't win a tour level match? He's not that obtuse. I think it was a different poster. Thought it was Jokervich, but no, he only said "one slam wonder". Even Genie won matches here and there after the Wimbledon final demolition. Surely Raducanu was going to win a tour level match, duh. Let's see how she goes along from here. She takes a long time to settle down and shake off rust. Maybe it will improve with more time spent on the tour, more muscle memory. She will need it to improve at any rate.

Graf1stClass · Oct 26, 2021

Dolgopolov85 said:
Was it him who said she won't win a tour level match? He's not that obtuse. I think it was a different poster. Thought it was Jokervich, but no, he only said "one slam wonder". Even Genie won matches here and there after the Wimbledon final demolition. Surely Raducanu was going to win a tour level match, duh. Let's see how she goes along from here. She takes a long time to settle down and shake off rust. Maybe it will improve with more time spent on the tour, more muscle memory. She will need it to improve at any rate.

Why would she have rust?

Graf1stClass · Oct 26, 2021

Was too soon for rust imo.. I feel she was only nervous.

Dolgopolov85 · Oct 26, 2021

Graf1stClass said:
Why would she have rust?

Probably because her technique has been under development and she somehow won a slam with it when she wasn't supposed to. So she hasn't had enough repetitions of her shots yet to groove them such that she doesn't lose them when she's not playing. In this match, it took her until the third set to really starting hitting loose and free. It's also that this too was a slow court, so early on she showed that tendency to press and force the pace (as at IW). But she served better here than in the IW match and also, Hercog is less dangerous than Sasnovich. Ideal match for her to fumble, falter and then get up and win.

Graf1stClass · Oct 26, 2021

Dolgopolov85 said:
Probably because her technique has been under development and she somehow won a slam with it when she wasn't supposed to. So she hasn't had enough repetitions of her shots yet to groove them such that she doesn't lose them when she's not playing. In this match, it took her until the third set to really starting hitting loose and free. It's also that this too was a slow court, so early on she showed that tendency to press and force the pace (as at IW). But she served better here than in the IW match and also, Hercog is less dangerous than Sasnovich. Ideal match for her to fumble, falter and then get up and win.

Oh he did say something about her forehand and serve.. was it that big of a deal? She appeared to be serving well to me. I would imagine she has had nerves bothering her from her last defeat. That was plausible for why this match started so rough for her. Do we know what her preference court is?

Dolgopolov85 · Oct 26, 2021

Graf1stClass said:
Oh he did say something about her forehand and serve.. was it that big of a deal? She appeared to be serving well to me. I would imagine she has had nerves bothering her from her last defeat. That was plausible for why this match started so rough for her. Do we know what her preference court is?

She was pressing a lot on the forehand side from 4-2 in the first set (exactly where she lost the plot for a while). She was losing shape on some of the forehands. As in, she wasn't just spraying or overhitting, even the form was going away. That's what suggested to me that perhaps her technique isn't yet as much second nature to her as it needs to be. Even at the USO, she would often start badly in the first couple of games and then settle down. So she is not able to hit her forehands the way she needs to right off the block.

She does seem like a player who likes fast surfaces. Currently that means three of the four slams and not many of the Masters. So she could be another Osaka like player, overachieving in slams and underachieving in the rest of the tour. Except that she is comfortable on grass too, unlike Osaka.

She had more occasions to use the slice in this match and it's a good shot. I think the most important thing is she appears to be ready to buckle down and learn. She wants to keep improving, notwithstanding all the moaning about the endorsement deals she's signed up.

goldengate14 · Oct 26, 2021

The teenagers should seek the counsel.of Tracy Austin in respect of dealing with pressure at a youg age as inthink she could help

Jason Swerve · Oct 26, 2021

Graf1stClass said:
No, only tournaments

Fair enough.

Graf1stClass said:
Oh he did say something about her forehand and serve.. was it that big of a deal? She appeared to be serving well to me. I would imagine she has had nerves bothering her from her last defeat. That was plausible for why this match started so rough for her. Do we know what her preference court is?

Yes, but does it matter what excuse you give her? She scraped by a player who was beyond the Top 100. That player choked- and you can say we saw some of the "real" Raducanu or whatever, but the player choked and let Raducanu back in the match. You wanna say this kid's the next Sabatini or Kournikova? She wouldn't beat Kournikova in '02. Both these players were looking themselves up online, but Raducanu's got a host of tennis mechanics and theory, and psychological exercises she could also be looking up, now that the internet isn't 5 years old. What made Sabatini so successful? There's no point in answering in detail. She had more talent than Raducanu, and she knew how to make use of it, unlike Raducanu. If Sabatini'd wanted, she'd have won many, many more tournaments. Why do you think she's gotten along with every one of her rivals? Why do you think she was so polite and well-liked with her positive demeanor?

You guys think Martinka was the first woman to drop sets on purpose? Here's a woman who lost entire matches. Does Raducanu have the luxury of tossing away sets and matches because she could easily make them up? Of course not. Don't begin to compare the kid to these legends. Kournikova would beat this girl with nothing but slices. What makes the surface such an issue to her? Seles never struggled on any surface. I don't count making the Wimbledon final as a "struggle". We all know how she treated hardcourts and clay. Wait a little while longer before propping this junior up. If Kournikova played Raducanu at 15, don't expect Raducanu to play "Hingis". And they can both read this post and laugh at it with you, because you know I'm telling the truth.

goldengate14 said:
The teenagers should seek the counsel.of Tracy Austin in respect of dealing with pressure at a youg age as inthink she could help

Most of these kids have never heard that name. You'll have to clarify who "Tracy Austin" is and why she's important. After all, she played in the days where they hit the ball at a measly 20 MPH. That lady was winning professional titles before she was a professional! But then, Kournikova more or less replicated the same feat with her ITF titles at a time where those two ITF tournaments were the equivalent of a modern day WTA 500 (a Premier tournament). Who knows what Raducanu'll do once she begins to approach the #1 ranking. For a short time, but a time nonetheless, Austin was the best player in the world. That statement didn't apply to Raducanu even in September. You could walk Davenport out on the court this very day, and my word, would she give the child a free tennis lesson.

Graf1stClass · Oct 27, 2021

Dolgopolov85 said:
She was pressing a lot on the forehand side from 4-2 in the first set (exactly where she lost the plot for a while). She was losing shape on some of the forehands. As in, she wasn't just spraying or overhitting, even the form was going away. That's what suggested to me that perhaps her technique isn't yet as much second nature to her as it needs to be. Even at the USO, she would often start badly in the first couple of games and then settle down. So she is not able to hit her forehands the way she needs to right off the block.

She does seem like a player who likes fast surfaces. Currently that means three of the four slams and not many of the Masters. So she could be another Osaka like player, overachieving in slams and underachieving in the rest of the tour. Except that she is comfortable on grass too, unlike Osaka.

She had more occasions to use the slice in this match and it's a good shot. I think the most important thing is she appears to be ready to buckle down and learn. She wants to keep improving, notwithstanding all the moaning about the endorsement deals she's signed up.

Do you know why she changed her forehand? I would hate for her to become like Cori.

Dolgopolov85 · Oct 27, 2021

Graf1stClass said:
Do you know why she changed her forehand? I would hate for her to become like Cori.

If anything, from what I understand, she took the corrective action that Cori needs to. She changed her grip from Western to something more like a semi Western and she is now able to generate drive on the forehand that she presumably couldn't before. Her issue as of now is she is too accustomed to playing on fast courts /grass in the UK and so she presses when she is on slow courts.. That she was able to course correct mid match yesterday is encouraging.

medieval_remnant · Oct 27, 2021

Graf1stClass said:
Do you know why she changed her forehand? I would hate for her to become like Cori.
[/QU

Jason Swerve said:

Fair enough.

Yes, but does it matter what excuse you give her? She scraped by a player who was beyond the Top 100. That player choked- and you can say we saw some of the "real" Raducanu or whatever, but the player choked and let Raducanu back in the match. You wanna say this kid's the next Sabatini or Kournikova? She wouldn't beat Kournikova in '02. Both these players were looking themselves up online, but Raducanu's got a host of tennis mechanics and theory, and psychological exercises she could also be looking up, now that the internet isn't 5 years old. What made Sabatini so successful? There's no point in answering in detail. She had more talent than Raducanu, and she knew how to make use of it, unlike Raducanu. If Sabatini'd wanted, she'd have won many, many more tournaments. Why do you think she's gotten along with every one of her rivals? Why do you think she was so polite and well-liked with her positive demeanor?

You guys think Martinka was the first woman to drop sets on purpose? Here's a woman who lost entire matches. Does Raducanu have the luxury of tossing away sets and matches because she could easily make them up? Of course not. Don't begin to compare the kid to these legends. Kournikova would beat this girl with nothing but slices. What makes the surface such an issue to her? Seles never struggled on any surface. I don't count making the Wimbledon final as a "struggle". We all know how she treated hardcourts and clay. Wait a little while longer before propping this junior up. If Kournikova played Raducanu at 15, don't expect Raducanu to play "Hingis". And they can both read this post and laugh at it with you, because you know I'm telling the truth.

Most of these kids have never heard that name. You'll have to clarify who "Tracy Austin" is and why she's important. After all, she played in the days where they hit the ball at a measly 20 MPH. That lady was winning professional titles before she was a professional! But then, Kournikova more or less replicated the same feat with her ITF titles at a time where those two ITF tournaments were the equivalent of a modern day WTA 500 (a Premier tournament). Who knows what Raducanu'll do once she begins to approach the #1 ranking. For a short time, but a time nonetheless, Austin was the best player in the world. That statement didn't apply to Raducanu even in September. You could walk Davenport out on the court this very day, and my word, would she give the child a free tennis lesson.

Click to expand...

How great was the play in the Capriati Henin 2003 USOoen semi?

Graf1stClass · Oct 30, 2021

medieval_remnant said:
*snip*

Is this a quote to me?

Dolgopolov85 said:
If anything, from what I understand, she took the corrective action that Cori needs to. She changed her grip from Western to something more like a semi Western and she is now able to generate drive on the forehand that she presumably couldn't before. Her issue as of now is she is too accustomed to playing on fast courts /grass in the UK and so she presses when she is on slow courts.. That she was able to course correct mid match yesterday is encouraging.

Dude she might become like Cori in her forehand.. Her last match vs Marta was HORRIBLE

Result - Cluj-Napoca QF: [6]Marta Kostyuk destroyed...

www.tennisforum.com

This was a 250!!

Maybe Jason Swerve was right again

Guess it is only fair to bump this thread for a disappointing loss as well.. Lol, Poor Kournikova WAS born too early.....

Dolgopolov85 · Oct 30, 2021

Graf1stClass said:
Is this a quote to me?

Dude she might become like Cori in her forehand.. Her last match vs Marta was HORRIBLE

Result - Cluj-Napoca QF: [6]Marta Kostyuk destroyed...

www.tennisforum.com

This was a 250!! Maybe Jason Swerve was right again Guess it is only fair to bump this thread for a disappointing loss as well.. Lol, Poor Kournikova WAS born too early.....

She looked much better against Bogdan. I'll wait and watch. And yes, it's a 250 but she hadn't even won a WTA draw match before. It's been a whirlwind year for her, from getting back to tennis just months before Wimbedlon to winning US Open and then incurring Jason's wrath. She's probably feeling a bit dizzy now. Wondering if she will still play Linz or just call it a season and get back for AO (or rather Sydney/Adelaide before AO).

Graf1stClass · Oct 30, 2021

Dolgopolov85 said:
She looked much better against Bogdan. I'll wait and watch. And yes, it's a 250 but she hadn't even won a WTA draw match before. It's been a whirlwind year for her, from getting back to tennis just months before Wimbedlon to winning US Open and then incurring Jason's wrath. She's probably feeling a bit dizzy now. Wondering if she will still play Linz or just call it a season and get back for AO (or rather Sydney/Adelaide before AO).

I think personally she should have not played after the USO. I wonder why she did...

Dolgopolov85 · Oct 30, 2021

Graf1stClass said:
I think personally she should have not played after the USO. I wonder why she did...

I don't agree. It's good for her to get this reality check out of the way now so she knows she has work to do in the off season than to stay in a bubble and then walk into AO to suddenly find herself in the role of the hunted. If it hurts to lose, it should. And she will learn/have to learn to get habituated to that feeling. She also knows now, as she already suspected, that her game isn't equally as potent on medium-slow surfaces.

Graf1stClass · Oct 30, 2021

Dolgopolov85 said:
I don't agree. It's good for her to get this reality check out of the way now so she knows she has work to do in the off season than to stay in a bubble and then walk into AO to suddenly find herself in the role of the hunted. If it hurts to lose, it should. And she will learn/have to learn to get habituated to that feeling. She also knows now, as she already suspected, that her game isn't equally as potent on medium-slow surfaces.

Well because now, I think she has even more pressure to win. Every loss is going to be more worse for her psyche compared to before.. If she lost at the AO, big deal, it's a slam but this is a minor tourney... now she does not have the intimidating presence anymore either so the other women will play her better

cortado · Oct 30, 2021

Bloody hell, if there's anything to put you off tennis it's essay-length posts about Kournikova and volleying.

Dolgopolov85 · Oct 30, 2021

Graf1stClass said:
Well because now, I think she has even more pressure to win. Every loss is going to be more worse for her psyche compared to before.. If she lost at the AO, big deal, it's a slam but this is a minor tourney... now she does not have the intimidating presence anymore either so the other women will play her better

That would happen one way or the other. She is too raw, too lacking in experience to avoid that minefield. She did what no slam winner has ever done in tennis,to win it as a qualifier. Her path hereon is also going to be more difficult than other slam winners.

Jason Swerve · Oct 30, 2021

The Raducanu result wasn't shocking. Everything that happened in this tournament is the result of issues I've specifically mentioned in this thread: forehand included. I could send an @ to @swiss_cheese @Fabresque @TearTheRoofOff @Bird Lover @Aussie Darcy @Subway Tennis @Zinge @SumYungGai @Abel @zvelf @tex123 @Sunny014 @MrFlip @STRONGSTYLE @Max G. and a few others who were short-sightedly parading on Page 1, but that would be pointless. If they still thought I were wrong about Fernandez/Raducanu, they'd still be "Liking" each other and posting their nonsense.

@Graf1stClass, you have to understand that this is a casual forum. Mainstream tennis forums like these don't attact the type of audience who're interested in discussing the technical aspects of tennis or its history. These sorts watch old highlights or a few live matches a month at the absolute most. They aren't aware of the "Transylvania Open". They couldn't name you 10 players in this tournament. That isn't any way to gain a comprehensive understanding of the game, and I've come to understand that 90% of Talk Tennisers are more interested in telling you who they like and finding cheap data points to jam in afterwards. Knowing this, I decided to stay only because a few people here valued the information I was giving them, but I've about reached my limit with the wanton deletions and childish regurgitations. If you see a "Like" system, it's not a serious discussion forum. Some clown just said reading about Kournikova and volleys "turns him off to tennis". This is what happens when you let too many anybodies type their piece. It becomes a common clique forum. Most of the serious discussion forums are obscure and test your knowledge before you're ever allowed to post. Statements such as, "Kournikova was just a babe and nothing more," would have you quickly booted. Brazen ignorance isn't tolerated.

Listen: Not one of these sheep knew Raducanu from her junior days. They didn't know who she was before the US Open. Yet another one of these ball bashers who lacks any sort of precision despite all this "modern poly" and "topspin" she's benefitting from. Kostyuk stood there, playing subpar tennis, and let the Grand Slam champion lose. Her performance against Kostyuk was identical to her junior year performance- against Kostyuk. Email the ITF, and they'll send you her old statistics. The girl has always lacked drive and grit. Always. Those lackadaisacal hits into the net are the complete opposite of Kournikova at 16- who was diving in the dirt for volleys. So don't be surprised: this scoreline which isn't at all new, and she still has room to improve even as this fair-weather crowd starts complaining. She's only 18, trying to force things without proper guidance. She's no Federer. And even Federer needed multiple coaches at 18.

Jason Swerve · Oct 30, 2021

Graf1stClass said:
I think personally she should have not played after the USO. I wonder why she did...

The TTW fans don't understand how the tours work. They just want to see her play. For Pete's sake, half of them are yapping about Kournikova never winning a title when she won two ITF tour titles in her second year. Anything they say is very much worth ignoring. Total brainlessness.

The players haven't been used to winning multiple venues in a row. Only Raducanu has had an aura as bright as hers after the US Open. So these players, along with Raducanu, don't understand the valuable intangible of maintaining an important aura that's worth more in your early career than potentially sacrificing that aura to venture into any old event when you aren't sure of yourself.

TearTheRoofOff · Oct 30, 2021

Jason Swerve said:
The Raducanu result wasn't shocking. Everything that happened in this tournament is the result of issues I've specifically mentioned in this thread: forehand included. I could send an @ to @swiss_cheese @Fabresque @TearTheRoofOff @Bird Lover @Aussie Darcy @Subway Tennis @Zinge @SumYungGai @Abel @zvelf @tex123 @Sunny014 @MrFlip @STRONGSTYLE @Max G. and a few others who were short-sightedly parading on Page 1, but that would be pointless. If they still thought I were wrong about Fernandez/Raducanu, they'd still be "Liking" each other and posting their nonsense.

@Graf1stClass, you have to understand that this is a casual forum. Mainstream tennis forums like these don't attact the type of audience who're interested in discussing the technical aspects of tennis or its history. These sorts watch old highlights or a few live matches a month at the absolute most. They aren't aware of the "Transylvania Open". They couldn't name you 10 players in this tournament. That isn't any way to gain a comprehensive understanding of the game, and I've come to understand that 90% of Talk Tennisers are more interested in telling you who they like and finding cheap data points to jam in afterwards. Knowing this, I decided to stay only because a few people here valued the information I was giving them, but I've about reached my limit with the wanton deletions and childish regurgitations. If you see a "Like" system, it's not a serious discussion forum. Some clown just said reading about Kournikova and volleys "turns him off to tennis". This is what happens when you let too many anybodies type their piece. It becomes a common clique forum. Most of the serious discussion forums are obscure and test your knowledge before you're ever allowed to post. Statements such as, "Kournikova was just a babe and nothing more," would have you quickly booted. Brazen ignorance isn't tolerated.

Listen: Not one of these sheep knew Raducanu from her junior days. They didn't know who she was before the US Open. Yet another one of these ball bashers who lacks any sort of precision despite all this "modern poly" and "topspin" she's benefitting from. Kostyuk stood there, playing subpar tennis, and let the Grand Slam champion lose. Her performance against Kostyuk was identical to her junior year performance- against Kostyuk. Email the ITF, and they'll send you her old statistics. The girl has always lacked drive and grit. Always. Those lackadaisacal hits into the net are the complete opposite of Kournikova at 16- who was diving in the dirt for volleys. So don't be surprised: this scoreline which isn't at all new, and she still has room to improve even as this fair-weather crowd starts complaining. She's only 18, trying to force things without proper guidance. She's no Federer. And even Federer needed multiple coaches at 18.

You could send an @ to them, but it's good that you didn't, huh. Especially as at least one of them pretty much agreed with you.

Jason Swerve · Oct 30, 2021

TearTheRoofOff said:
You could send an @ to them, but it's good that you didn't, huh. Especially as at least one of them pretty much agreed with you.

Yes sir. I'm sure a bucketful of them are agreeing on the inside. A shame they'd let their online friends down if they so much as typed out "WTA 250: Marta Kostyuk def. Emma Raducanu, 6-2 6-1".

TearTheRoofOff · Oct 30, 2021

Jason Swerve said:
Yes sir. I'm sure a bucketful of them are agreeing on the inside. A shame they'd let their online friends down if they so much as typed out "WTA 250: Marta Kostyuk def. Emma Raducanu, 6-2 6-1".

Jason Swerve · Oct 30, 2021

On a side note, you people can't keep telling others these players need "more time" when they have already won a slam. Accident or not, lucky draw or not, they've held those trophies up. They're now champions. They're being measured to the standards of Grand Slam winners, and that counts for everything they do from then on. If the US Open Grand Slam doesn't set any standard because she's "only 18," then stop propping these four damned tournaments up.

The girl didn't have harsh trainings and condescending spectators like Serena or Venus. She didn't grow up dirt broke like Hingis or Sharapova or Kournikova or Myskina. Her mindset's gonna be tested the longer she's out of her zone. A champion can still have a loser's mentality and vice-versa. Now that she swiped her prize, you're all beginning to see the type of player she currently is. If she's to amount to anything more, her mindset needs to change.

Graf1stClass · Oct 30, 2021

Dolgopolov85 said:
That would happen one way or the other. She is too raw, too lacking in experience to avoid that minefield. She did what no slam winner has ever done in tennis,to win it as a qualifier. Her path hereon is also going to be more difficult than other slam winners.

That is a good point to go by what we are seeing now. What I said it's mere speculation, but I do wonder what may have been if she did wait so long.. What if she had all of her confidence still and the other women were scared to play her? It could all be mental and Emma is too nervous to reach her form, and that is her fault but if she did well in Australia she could be avoiding this tragedy. I feel so bad for her.. She does not look like she is enjoying herself at all. She and Anna would have made good friends together... I think I know what I'm going to write about this evening

Jason Swerve said:
The TTW fans don't understand how the tours work. They just want to see her play. For Pete's sake, half of them are yapping about Kournikova never winning a title when she won two ITF tour titles in her second year. Anything they say is very much worth ignoring. Total brainlessness.

The players haven't been used to winning multiple venues in a row. Only Raducanu has had an aura as bright as hers after the US Open. So these players, along with Raducanu, don't understand the valuable intangible of maintaining an important aura that's worth more in your early career than potentially sacrificing that aura to venture into any old event when you aren't sure of yourself.

Anna was the best thing to happen to women's tennis after Steffi and Serena. I am not kidding btw; tennis today would look really different without her. We should be grateful for what she and the William sisters gave the sport imo. You should be more optimistic and pray Raducanu can move fans like Anna did

(Oh my goodness Martina retired when Emma was born. Wow do I feel old)

TearTheRoofOff said:

What makes this so bad, Marta is kinda average herself.. She has some bad losses this year; I know she lost to Tauson pretty badly too... If Emma wants to take the next step she has to get past these matches. I believe she can do it, but she's missing that 'something' she had at the USO.. I hope a coach can help her find it before it's gone completely. There was a little with Polona already when she won 6-1

Dolgopolov85 · Oct 30, 2021

Graf1stClass said:
That is a good point to go by what we are seeing now. What I said it's mere speculation, but I do wonder what may have been if she did wait so long.. What if she had all of her confidence still and the other women were scared to play her? It could all be mental and Emma is too nervous to reach her form, and that is her fault but if she did well in Australia she could be avoiding this tragedy. I feel so bad for her.. She does not look like she is enjoying herself at all. She and Anna would have made good friends together... I think I know what I'm going to write about this evening

What makes this so bad, Marta is kinda average herself.. She has some bad losses this year; I know she lost to Tauson pretty badly too... If Emma wants to take the next step she has to get past these matches. I believe she can do it, but she's missing that 'something' she had at the USO.. I hope a coach can help her find it before it's gone completely. There was a little with Polona already when she won 6-1

The reason I am not so confident of her being able to retain her aura by just not playing for a while is she lacks tour experience sorely. She had never played at Indian Wells before. Nor at Cluj (and Cluj indoors is a fairly new tournament). It's likely she hasn't seen Sydney or Adelaide either. So how would she get into the groove anyway? She prospered at the USO because she had spent a month or so at that point in the US and even though she still lost at San Jose (and to Tauson at a Chicago 125...ironically, since you mentioned Tauson), she was very comfortable with those conditions (and further, US Open played fast this year, faster than last year, which suited her as well). She had never played a tour level 3 setter before the one she won over Hercog.

It's the most random path to winning a slam and attaining stardom we have ever seen. It's not going to be easy for her and I don't think quick fixes like tucking away after USO would have helped because she needs to get as much learning and development under her belt as quickly as she can. The tour is not going to stand still for her so she will have to learn what makes playing at IW different from USO and what makes a weird surface like temporary hard court laid over wood (Cluj) different from both in turn. The good thing is she knows all this and has referred to it. And she has 'tough' parents who are probably not going to let her off the hook and will make her go through the grind.

I wrote right after she won USO when the hypetrain was at its peak that we need to see how she copes with the day in day out drill of the tour. THAT'S the level of inexperience she is dealing with. I don't find her results in these last two tournaments a surprise and rather, I was impressed she still fought through a difficult match against Hercog and then beat Bogdan quite comfortably.

If the above actually sounds like some of what JS is saying, where I differ is I am going to at least wait to see how she goes about 2022/23 before judging her. I am not in any hurry to write her off because unlike him, I am not STILL nursing a weird grudge from Kournikova's failure to win slams or Hingis failing to win any after the age of 18. Past is past and I live in the here and now.

Many of these points have been addressed by a REAL coach and someone who played on the tour herself - Meike Babel:

Graf1stClass · Oct 31, 2021

Dolgopolov85 said:
The reason I am not so confident of her being able to retain her aura by just not playing for a while is she lacks tour experience sorely. She had never played at Indian Wells before. Nor at Cluj (and Cluj indoors is a fairly new tournament). It's likely she hasn't seen Sydney or Adelaide either. So how would she get into the groove anyway? She prospered at the USO because she had spent a month or so at that point in the US and even though she still lost at San Jose (and to Tauson at a Chicago 125...ironically, since you mentioned Tauson), she was very comfortable with those conditions (and further, US Open played fast this year, faster than last year, which suited her as well). She had never played a tour level 3 setter before the one she won over Hercog.

It's the most random path to winning a slam and attaining stardom we have ever seen. It's not going to be easy for her and I don't think quick fixes like tucking away after USO would have helped because she needs to get as much learning and development under her belt as quickly as she can. The tour is not going to stand still for her so she will have to learn what makes playing at IW different from USO and what makes a weird surface like temporary hard court laid over wood (Cluj) different from both in turn. The good thing is she knows all this and has referred to it. And she has 'tough' parents who are probably not going to let her off the hook and will make her go through the grind.

I wrote right after she won USO when the hypetrain was at its peak that we need to see how she copes with the day in day out drill of the tour. THAT'S the level of inexperience she is dealing with. I don't find her results in these last two tournaments a surprise and rather, I was impressed she still fought through a difficult match against Hercog and then beat Bogdan quite comfortably.

If the above actually sounds like some of what JS is saying, where I differ is I am going to at least wait to see how she goes about 2022/23 before judging her. I am not in any hurry to write her off because unlike him, I am not STILL nursing a weird grudge from Kournikova's failure to win slams or Hingis failing to win any after the age of 18. Past is past and I live in the here and now.

Many of these points have been addressed by a REAL coach and someone who played on the tour herself - Meike Babel:

No it does sound kinda similar; I do not know the timeframe he gave her, but there was no way it was never, plausibly 3-4 years also @Jason Swerve

Careful btw the past is not such a bad thing.. We had Graf

We had lower gas prices as well. Did you see what happened recently?? They're robbing us.....

In earnest, I truly hold only the best of the best would not want Anna's legacy in tennis even without the WTA trophies. There are too many players that win some titles but then they fade, besides the best like Serena Venus, Graf Navratilova Evert, even Osaka will go out with whimpers I believe if she does not do something else, but it's like you get known for your talent and win some doubles titles and in the top 10 and the most famous player who ever was..... if I know I won't win a grand slam, I would take that in a heartbeat because of the legacy even if I have 40% haters.... she only has so many because she was so well known. Probably most players would not want to at first, because they want to be like Graf and the others at the very best (good luck

), but realistically, most players would die to have the impact of Kournikova.. Hingis I do not know, it was that one topic I made but she had more real tennis fans that I can remember clearly, so probably not her

Emma as it is now does not play better than them, but if she finds her game then we can dispute that... Somebody like Anett was like a wildfire compared to Emma. The good news is Emma's not injured so she has that going for her, idk -- I think her game is based on her head psyche like with Anna, or like with Graf in the start of the 1990s but Emma feasibly had more chance to make the second week of the AO anyway because well it's a slam so I don't need to be so nervous like losing in a 250 title. At least then we can go, the courts were slow and now she can play indoors, but now she does not have that. She has to play the big grand slam on the slow surface with the slow bounce...... the odds are stacked against her. She did not give the other jealous players the time to cool off, and now she is Kournikova. Sharapova is not the same but she was losing after she beat Serena in Wimbledon and then she won at the end of the year because she was playing... Emma lost all her force because she cannot play anymore, she has to wait for months after losing like Kournikova. As I dwell on the similarities I am more alarmed, but Emma has already found more success by being luckier so she should keep winning titles her best because I do not believe any woman can achieve that kind of fame without winning titles as Kournikova, in this social media age without becoming political like Osaka..

Dolgopolov85 · Oct 31, 2021

Graf1stClass said:
No it does sound kinda similar; I do not know the timeframe he gave her, but there was no way it was never, plausibly 3-4 years also @Jason Swerve

Careful btw the past is not such a bad thing.. We had Graf

We had lower gas prices as well. Did you see what happened recently?? They're robbing us.....

In earnest, I truly hold only the best of the best would not want Anna's legacy in tennis even without the WTA trophies. There are too many players that win some titles but then they fade, besides the best like Serena Venus, Graf Navratilova Evert, even Osaka will go out with whimpers I believe if she does not do something else, but it's like you get known for your talent and win some doubles titles and in the top 10 and the most famous player who ever was..... if I know I won't win a grand slam, I would take that in a heartbeat because of the legacy even if I have 40% haters.... she only has so many because she was so well known. Probably most players would not want to at first, because they want to be like Graf and the others at the very best (good luck ), but realistically, most players would die to have the impact of Kournikova.. Hingis I do not know, it was that one topic I made but she had more real tennis fans that I can remember clearly, so probably not her

Emma as it is now does not play better than them, but if she finds her game then we can dispute that... Somebody like Anett was like a wildfire compared to Emma. The good news is Emma's not injured so she has that going for her, idk -- I think her game is based on her head psyche like with Anna, or like with Graf in the start of the 1990s but Emma feasibly had more chance to make the second week of the AO anyway because well it's a slam so I don't need to be so nervous like losing in a 250 title. At least then we can go, the courts were slow and now she can play indoors, but now she does not have that. She has to play the big grand slam on the slow surface with the slow bounce...... the odds are stacked against her. She did not give the other jealous players the time to cool off, and now she is Kournikova. Sharapova is not the same but she was losing after she beat Serena in Wimbledon and then she won at the end of the year because she was playing... Emma lost all her force because she cannot play anymore, she has to wait for months after losing like Kournikova. As I dwell on the similarities I am more alarmed, but Emma has already found more success by being luckier so she should keep winning titles her best because I do not believe any woman can achieve that kind of fame without winning titles as Kournikova, in this social media age without becoming political like Osaka..

Wait...AO is not slow anymore and hasn't been since at least 2013. That's one of the reasons I am not overly worried about AO 2022. AO had a Court Pace Rating of 50 this year, which is insane. If they make it any faster, it will be like Stuttgart or Hannover from back in the day. I don't think Feddy wins his epic 2017 slam against Nadal without Rod Laver Arena already playing fast or at least fast-ish as of then. He did beat him again at Indian Wells and Miami but for that, he needed to groove his new backhand in conditions he loved. So I don't see conditions as an issue for Raducanu at AO. A reprise of IW as well as Miami will be tough. But she'd have had time by then at least to settle down. Could probably play Dubai in the middle...again, fast conditions that she will enjoy, probably the one non-slam court (other than Cincinnati) that plays most like US Open.

Graf1stClass · Oct 31, 2021

Dolgopolov85 said:
Wait...AO is not slow anymore and hasn't been since at least 2013. That's one of the reasons I am not overly worried about AO 2022. AO had a Court Pace Rating of 50 this year, which is insane. If they make it any faster, it will be like Stuttgart or Hannover from back in the day. I don't think Feddy wins his epic 2017 slam against Nadal without Rod Laver Arena already playing fast or at least fast-ish as of then. He did beat him again at Indian Wells and Miami but for that, he needed to groove his new backhand in conditions he loved. So I don't see conditions as an issue for Raducanu at AO. A reprise of IW as well as Miami will be tough. But she'd have had time by then at least to settle down. Could probably play Dubai in the middle...again, fast conditions that she will enjoy, probably the one non-slam court (other than Cincinnati) that plays most like US Open.

Slower than the US Open no longer, but I doubt that many regular watchers are aware of this. They will twist the narrative however way in my opinion, but even still I meant they are saying now the IW courts are slower and after the AO she can play indoors and maybe win. That is a weird reasoning anyway, because only if she does not play the game she has been playing. It is only a short wait after Australia, but what she has to do now is wait for months. I do not believe the excuse they're giving her is valid, but people will always make excuses and it does make sense to not ever give people the 'at least' reason imo.

yokied · Oct 31, 2021

The purity of the trollery actually exceeds the purported purity of the tennis. I can’t think of a higher compliment and it’s a lot more than I can say for the rest of what passes for peak goat wars around here.

Fred and Tinka, distilled from the Swiss and Czech alps.

Here’s to you, OP.

Graf1stClass · Nov 9, 2021

yokied said:
The purity of the trollery actually exceeds the purported purity of the tennis. I can’t think of a higher compliment and it’s a lot more than I can say for the rest of what passes for peak goat wars around here.

Fred and Tinka, distilled from the Swiss and Czech alps.

Here’s to you, OP.

Now Emma has lost to another player at the top 100 and another breadstick; if only this was trolling but now it's Wang rank 106... If I stated this would happen in September they would call me a troll as well. I hate to say, but I believe he has become the dark-horse of the WTA theories here with these claims. Sabatini and Kournikova seemed exaggeratory but at least to compare to Emma... Kournikova beat all the top 16+ for two years before her thumb injury, and losing like this I could not imagine with Gabby. Ugh

RaulRamirez · Nov 9, 2021

Graf1stClass said:
Now Emma has lost to another player at the top 100 and another breadstick; if only this was trolling but now it's Wang rank 106... If I stated this would happen in September they would call me a troll as well. I hate to say, but I believe he has become the dark-horse of the WTA theories here with these claims. Sabatini and Kournikova seemed exaggeratory but at least to compare to Emma... Kournikova beat all the top 16+ for two years before her thumb injury, and losing like this I could not imagine with Gabby. Ugh

So pleased that some of you can seemingly dismiss her game, her attitude/mindset and future so easily. She's still 18 and has already done something that a lot of very good players never did in their careers.

Just sit back and give her time to develop.

Graf1stClass · Nov 9, 2021

RaulRamirez said:
So pleased that some of you can seemingly dismiss her game, her attitude/mindset and future so easily. She's still 18 and has already done something that a lot of very good players never did in their careers.

Just sit back and give her time to develop.

Well duh. The name of the post is not YET ready.. It did not say NEVER ready

Put your pitchforks and torches away; and who cares that she won a slam.. Congratulation, we all know it was big.... you cannot rest on that argument forever.

Jason Swerve · Nov 13, 2021

RaulRamirez said:
So pleased that some of you can seemingly dismiss her game, her attitude/mindset and future so easily. She's still 18 and has already done something that a lot of very good players never did in their careers.

Just sit back and give her time to develop.

Nonsense. Winning a slam and losing the rest gets you treated like Ivanovic, only Ivanovic was a better competitor than Raducanu currently is. We'll give her chances, but she won't get forever. If she doesn't improve her game to the standards I gave you, you can quote me in saying she'll never improve. Ever. You and every other clown who's been swept up in yet another wave, you must've forgotten the other 4 waves we've had in this year alone. Four trains full of false promises. Four trains full of let down, blindsided fans. The patterns cant be argued just because you like them. The patterns are that these women don't change to adapt to the conditions before them, and they consistently stagnate. If we bet money on this, you would be broke, and I would be rich. This isn't a serious betting forum, just a place for office workers to ramble their opinions, so that's why yours doesn't hold any actual value.

Raducanu's record doesn't mean a thing. Most people who know her name don't know the specifics- they only know she won the Open at a young age. More people knew that Kournikova was knocking down Top 10s left and right while playing doubles when that was happening, than the fact that Emma entered the Open as a qualifier. Emma entered as a qualifier because she sucked as a junior and slacked off, which prevented her from getting a real ranking and real opportunities. You green folks don't know anything about junior tennis and want to say she was a qualifier because she had to take "classes". Get with the program. Every junior for the past 50 years had to take "classes". That didn't stop them from playing the sport. Her record is no better than Hingis'. Hingis won her maiden title at two years younger, dropping no sets all the same, and she was not a qualifier because she'd posted some actual juniors and professional results for *two solid years* before playing the thing.

RaulRamirez · Nov 13, 2021

Jason Swerve said:
Nonsense. Winning a slam and losing the rest gets you treated like Ivanovic, only Ivanovic was a better competitor than Raducanu currently is. We'll give her chances, but she won't get forever. If she doesn't improve her game to the standards I gave you, you can quote me in saying she'll never improve. Ever. You and every other clown who's been swept up in yet another wave, you must've forgotten the other 4 waves we've had in this year alone. Four trains full of false promises. Four trains full of let down, blindsided fans. The patterns cant be argued just because you like them. The patterns are that these women don't change to adapt to the conditions before them, and they consistently stagnate. If we bet money on this, you would be broke, and I would be rich. This isn't a serious betting forum, just a place for office workers to ramble their opinions, so that's why yours doesn't hold any actual value.

Raducanu's record doesn't mean a thing. Most people who know her name don't know the specifics- they only know she won the Open at a young age. More people knew that Kournikova was knocking down Top 10s left and right while playing doubles when that was happening, than the fact that Emma entered the Open as a qualifier. Emma entered as a qualifier because she sucked as a junior and slacked off, which prevented her from getting a real ranking and real opportunities. You green folks don't know anything about junior tennis and want to say she was a qualifier because she had to take "classes". Get with the program. Every junior for the past 50 years had to take "classes". That didn't stop them from playing the sport. Her record is no better than Hingis'. Hingis won her maiden title at two years younger, dropping no sets all the same, and she was not a qualifier because she'd posted some actual juniors and professional results for *two solid years* before playing the thing.

Dear Mr. Swerve,

I begged you to take your medication. Applying such vitriolic fanaticism to a tennis forum about an 18-year-old girl who just achieved an amazing accomplishment two months ago is not healthy for anyone. Please seek help.

Dr. Doctor

Jason Swerve · Nov 13, 2021

RaulRamirez said:
Dear Mr. Swerve,

I begged you to take your medication. Applying such vitriolic fanaticism to a tennis forum about an 18-year-old girl who just achieved an amazing accomplishment two months ago is not healthy for anyone. Please seek help.

Dr. Doctor

Fanaticism towards what? What would you say I'm a fanatic of? You're nothing if not upset, attempting to live vicariously through a slumping teenager.

Graf1stClass · Mar 15, 2022

I saw Leylah make it so far before falling and immediately thought of this topic. Emma lost on Sunday.. These premier mandatory tournaments all seem so far out of reach for the youngsters after this Indian Wells. Today I have even more respect for what Graf was able to accomplish in her short career

No, these WTA teenagers aren't yet ready.

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