Why is everyone using such light racquets? Can we really not handle it?

HunterST · Aug 8, 2023

I use the RF97 and even add lead tape. I'm a lowish 4.5 player, so good but by no means elite.

Yet, I hear everyone say the RF is incredibly heavy and can really only be used by top-of-the-line players. That makes me think I have the wrong racquet, but when I try lighter frames they feel like they get pushed around by the ball, and my shots aren't nearly as heavy.
I also think about the fact that 10 years ago, all rec players were using heavy frames. So it shouldn't be too absurd to have a heavier frame.

What am I missing about these lighter racquets?

socallefty · Aug 8, 2023

Players who grew up with lighter racquets have a game suited for that weight and play better with them. Just like old guys like me grew up with heavier racquets and struggle to play with lighter racquets. The racquet head speed (RHS) and timing of when you stop to hit the ball and start your swing is different for different generations and you can’t make one rule about what is suitable for all players. Older players like extra mass to generate power (F=Ma) and might have slower RHS relatively compared to a younger player at the same level who plays with less mass and more acceleration during the swing.

You can rest assured that advanced players like pros, college players, top juniors and 4.5+ adults have a pretty good idea of what swingweight and static weight works well for their game.

jimmy8 · Aug 8, 2023

I think falling on my shoulders so many times combined with age doesn't allow me to maneuver a heavy racket fast enough, especially at the net.

My racket weighs 306 g unstrung, but it's too heavy for me. I put a slightly heavier replacement grip and that allows me to move the racket fast enough. I tried lighter rackets, but they don't have the plow through and stability of my 306 g racket. I use the 360+ Prestige pro.

ProRadTour · Aug 8, 2023

Cause if you keep playing good tennis with an old heavy frame when will you buy the latest new tech gimmick that is way lighter and more powerful

jxs653 · Aug 8, 2023

I think it's not a matter of can handle or can't handle. Lighter raqucets just works fine. Otherwise people would play with heavier racquet.

gold325 · Aug 8, 2023

HunterST said:
I use the RF97 and even add lead tape. I'm a lowish 4.5 player, so good but by no means elite.

Yet, I hear everyone say the RF is incredibly heavy and can really only be used by top-of-the-line players. That makes me think I have the wrong racquet, but when I try lighter frames they feel like they get pushed around by the ball, and my shots aren't nearly as heavy.
I also think about the fact that 10 years ago, all rec players were using heavy frames. So it shouldn't be too absurd to have a heavier frame.

What am I missing about these lighter racquets?

In all seriousness though - you are not missing anything. If you go down to a lower weight class you will struggle heavily like you predicted. Go down only when age or injury forces you to.

jimmy8 · Aug 8, 2023

The new tech in the wilson shift is amazing. It's so light, but it still feels very stable. It's a stiff racket, but it has enough lateral flex to feel comfortable. It has more control than any other 99 or 98 I've tried. It's so maneuverable, net play is so much easier.

Ryebread · Aug 9, 2023

this forum is probably most active for 40-70 year old players.
As I would think younger players are on a different forum, like a social media platform.

I bet for many here, they played with 315 gram sticks
But have shifted to 310 and then 305 and maybe 300 sticks for multiple reasons.
lighter frames appeal to folks, when they start wearing down.
the frames have advanced, we still have the stability and plow, in a 300 gram stick - and they are now making them flexible and comfy (icing on the cake)

jimmy8 · Aug 9, 2023

Ryebread said:
this forum is probably most active for 40-70 year old players.
As I would think younger players are on a different forum, like a social media platform.

I bet for many here, they played with 315 gram sticks
But have shifted to 310 and then 305 and maybe 300 sticks for multiple reasons.
lighter frames appeal to folks, when they start wearing down.
the frames have advanced, we still have the stability and plow, in a 300 gram stick - and they are now making them flexible and comfy (icing on the cake)

There was a thread asking people their ages and the first 20-40 responses were 95% teenagers and early 20 year olds. Then a couple old people chimed in about how surprised they were about the age of the people. And if you read a lot of threads and look at a lot of people's profiles, you'll see that there are plenty of young people. And this forum is a social media platform, that's why so many young people are here.

HeavyHitter · Aug 9, 2023

Muscle memory and technique. Your technique and timing is different when playing with lighter frames. There are many advantages the lighter frames provide in competitive tennis. Advancements in frame and string technologies have made it possible. Casual players with lower racquet head speeds will generally benefit from heavier frames, as it provide more stability and plow thru.

artdeco · Aug 9, 2023

Mine are all about 345g strung.

Ryebread · Aug 9, 2023

jimmy8 said:
There was a thread asking people their ages and the first 20-40 responses were 95% teenagers and early 20 year olds. Then a couple old people chimed in about how surprised they were about the age of the people. And if you read a lot of threads and look at a lot of people's profiles, you'll see that there are plenty of young people. And this forum is a social media platform, that's why so many young people are here.

VERY interesting, thx for that insight Jimmy!

FuzzyYellowBalls · Aug 9, 2023

The RF 97 shouldn't be used by anyone, including your level

He advised Agassi on his sticks and redesigned Novak's approach to rackets a few years ago.

Doesn't matter if you grew up with heavier rackets, we all switched to lighter ones as the tech improved, it's easy to transition and just increase RHS. Most of the guys I grew up with playing have gone down to lighter rackets despite muscle memory etc. You would be amazed the utility a lighter racket can provide.

Of course we can all pick up an RF97 and swing it without our arm falling off, but unless you are in the top 10% of athletes it is probable that the RF97 hits a great ball "IF" you are in position to hit with immaculate footwork for an entire 3 hour singles match. Not many people are. Top of the line players, using the RF97? There aren't hardly any if you mean anyone above 4.5 playing 18+ age matches.

I made a small survey of UTR 10 plus guys this summer that I ran into (got destroyed by some in matches). mostly college kids home from college tennis if they use lead or even know their swingweight, most don't. Also knowing the TCU and SMU program and their rackets, most are stock and don't know the numbers, they just know they like the racket they are using.

HunterST said:
I use the RF97 and even add lead tape. I'm a lowish 4.5 player, so good but by no means elite.

Yet, I hear everyone say the RF is incredibly heavy and can really only be used by top-of-the-line players. That makes me think I have the wrong racquet, but when I try lighter frames they feel like they get pushed around by the ball, and my shots aren't nearly as heavy.
I also think about the fact that 10 years ago, all rec players were using heavy frames. So it shouldn't be too absurd to have a heavier frame.

What am I missing about these lighter racquets?

socallefty said:
Players who grew up with lighter racquets have a game suited for that weight and play better with them. Just like old guys like me grew up with heavier racquets and struggle to play with lighter racquets. The racquet head speed (RHS) and timing of when you stop to hit the ball and start your swing is different for different generations and you can’t make one rule about what is suitable for all players. Older players like extra mass to generate power (F=Ma) and might have slower RHS relatively compared to a younger player at the same level who plays with less mass and more acceleration during the swing.

You can rest assured that advanced players like pros, college players, top juniors and 4.5+ adults have a pretty good idea of what swingweight and static weight works well for their game.

Hansen · Aug 9, 2023

HunterST said:
What am I missing about these lighter racquets?

racquet head speed

Casper777 · Aug 9, 2023

330 gr and above are clearly in the "heavy" group...

But what about 310-315 gr frames...

I am an intermediate rec player of 47 and I play regularly with 315 frames (TF40, Gravity Pro, Pro Staff X) and really dobt find them so hard to play. Would you call them heavy?

Yamin · Aug 9, 2023

Manufacturers wanna save dat money, and casual players don't need the weight/stability I guess. There are also older players with lower strength than their prime that don't need it anymore either. Also women.

TennisHound · Aug 9, 2023

These “heavy vs light” threads are like the 2-stroke vs 4-stroke debate in motorcycles. I predict this one may go 5+ pages.

Casper777 · Aug 9, 2023

TennisHound said:
These “heavy vs light” threads are like the 2-stroke vs 4-stroke debate in motorcycles. I predict this one may go 5+ pages.

Much more than 5.... look:

Dudes what is more playable? A 315-320 stick with 320 SW? Like a TF40 315 or Volkl VCell 10 320?? Or a light stick with huge swingweight like Babolat Pure Strike 18x20 or TFight 305??

) well??

Matter of preference ... for me I like heavy with low swingweight.

FuzzyYellowBalls · Aug 9, 2023

Yamin said:
Manufacturers wanna save dat money, and casual players don't need the weight/stability I guess. There are also older players with lower strength than their prime that don't need it anymore either. Also women.

how much money do you think a manufacturer saves going 20 grams lighter on a racket......lolz

FuzzyYellowBalls · Aug 9, 2023

TennisHound said:
These “heavy vs light” threads are like the 2-stroke vs 4-stroke debate in motorcycles. I predict this one may go 5+ pages.

Truth, but they are what makes these TTalk forums famous in the real tennis world and on other internet tennis bubbles. Need MOOOOAAHR weight for stability and plow, must add 20 grams to 3 and 9. It's what makes this place special really.

TennisHound · Aug 9, 2023

I keep waiting for the argument “My grandma still uses a weighted up 15oz wood racquet because she uses her legs and prepares early.” Lol

gold325 · Aug 9, 2023

FuzzyYellowBalls said:
The RF 97 shouldn't be used by anyone, including your level

He advised Agassi on his sticks and redesigned Novak's approach to rackets a few years ago.

Doesn't matter if you grew up with heavier rackets, we all switched to lighter ones as the tech improved, it's easy to transition and just increase RHS. Most of the guys I grew up with playing have gone down to lighter rackets despite muscle memory etc. You would be amazed the utility a lighter racket can provide.

Of course we can all pick up an RF97 and swing it without our arm falling off, but unless you are in the top 10% of athletes it is probable that the RF97 hits a great ball "IF" you are in position to hit with immaculate footwork for an entire 3 hour singles match. Not many people are. Top of the line players, using the RF97? There aren't hardly any if you mean anyone above 4.5 playing 18+ age matches.

I made a small survey of UTR 10 plus guys this summer that I ran into (got destroyed by some in matches). mostly college kids home from college tennis if they use lead or even know their swingweight, most don't. Also knowing the TCU and SMU program and their rackets, most are stock and don't know the numbers, they just know they like the racket they are using.

I used to mostly agree with you. But now I think it is strong personal preference especially at the rec level in 4.0-4.5. Maybe its 80% light 20% heavy but you talk as though those 20% shoulf also go light just because Roman said so.

Some 40-60 year olds can keep up with swingweight depsite have lost racquet head speeds that still have momentum on their side. I have seen a 5' 5" mid 40s asian dude dominate with an RF97 with 4G despite having a weak serve.

Your college/young kid argument doesnt hold since they still have speed, flexibility, rackethead speed and high quality spinal discs intact.

FuzzyYellowBalls · Aug 9, 2023

gold325 said:
I used to mostly agree with you. But now I think it is strong personal preference especially at the rec level in 4.0-4.5. Maybe its 80% light 20% heavy but you talk as though those 20% shoulf also go light just because Roman said so.

Some 40-60 year olds can keep up with swingweight depsite have lost racquet head speeds that still have momentum on their side. I have seen a 5' 5" mid 40s asian dude dominate with an RF97 with 4G despite having a weak serve.

Your college/young kid argument doesnt hold since they still have speed, flexibility, rackethead speed and high quality spinal discs intact.

Yes. While I agree people can survive and play well with the RF97, I agree with Roman , they would play even better with a lighter racket.

There are always examples, how many of the 5'5" 40s Asian RF97 users do you know as opposed to counting up the ones that don't have his skill? Maybe an Ezone 98 would improve his serve and not hurt his other strokes, he may never know if he doesn't try it and train with it. And really if he is succeeding , no reason to mess with it unless he is a perfectionist.

Young College/Kid example was merely in reference to @socallefty mentioning they know their swingweight etc., they mostly don't and just use what they bought off the shelf with the strings they like. In a way that's "knowing" the SW but they couldn't give you a number. ' But, it also answers partially the OP question about high level players not using the RF97.

But, even older people can improve and do more, explore more shots, have the chance to increase RHS with a lighter racket instead of trying to slowly swing an RF97 or bunting balls with it. Lighter is just 310 or 320, the big majority of off the shelf rackets, I'm not suggesting 300 gram super light stuff just in case.

socallefty · Aug 9, 2023

FuzzyYellowBalls said:
Young College/Kid example was merely in reference to @socallefty mentioning they know their swingweight etc., they mostly don't and just use what they bought off the shelf with the strings they like. In a way that's "knowing" the SW but they couldn't give you a number.

I meant the second case where they know what works for their game when they play with racquets with different weights and SW. No one except the nerds who post here actually know terms like swingweight or the actual specs of their racquet. Most players I know can tell you their racquet brand, but barely know the name of the model.

socallefty · Aug 9, 2023

I see people saying you need better footwork to play with heavy racquets whereas my experience is the opposite. When I am late to the ball, my 335-340 SW Pure Strike Tour racquet can get the ball back deep even without a complete high-RHS swing. When I am late to the ball while demoing lighter racquets like the Strike VS or regular weight Strike, an abbreviated late swing leaves the balls short. I feel like with the lighter racquets, I have more of a need to get to the ball on time even on defense so that I can generate a high-RHS swing to send the ball back deep.

Having played with 12+ oz racquets all my life, I don’t have the habit of getting to the ball as early as I need to with lighter racquets and so I have a timing problem. Probably those who grow up with lighter racquets have the opposite timing problem of generating the RHS they are used to with heavy racquets. If you played with lighter racquets all your life and suddenly tried the RF97, you will find it too heavy to swing fast. I don’t have a problem with that, but I don‘t like it because it is too stiff with a small sweet spot compared to the Pure Strike Tour.

I don’t believe there Is one spec range suitable for everyone as it is heavily dependent on what specs you developed your game with as your ‘normal’ timing is influenced by that.

PhxRacket · Aug 9, 2023

jimmy8 said:
The new tech in the wilson shift is amazing. It's so light, but it still feels very stable. It's a stiff racket, but it has enough lateral flex to feel comfortable. It has more control than any other 99 or 98 I've tried. It's so maneuverable, net play is so much easier.

I absolutely agree. I have always favored heavier, head heavy racquets. I demoed the Shift 315 and it was 351 grams!! Maybe too much as I was late too often for my own sake. Fantastic racquet and I though, if I could just get an under spec one…maybe. When I returned it to my local store, I picked up the Shift 300 on a whim. I am not a fan of light racquets.
But when I took it out to a training sesh with a guy I played college tennis with…it’s remarkable. It took a little bit to alter my timing, but after that-precision, power and control in a package I could swing for a bit. I’m a little concerned about the stiffness tho. I’m playing some 4.5/5.0 dubs Friday and Saturday so more to come.

gold325 · Aug 9, 2023

FuzzyYellowBalls said:
Yes. While I agree people can survive and play well with the RF97, I agree with Roman , they would play even better with a lighter racket.

There are always examples, how many of the 5'5" 40s Asian RF97 users do you know as opposed to counting up the ones that don't have his skill? Maybe an Ezone 98 would improve his serve and not hurt his other strokes, he may never know if he doesn't try it and train with it. And really if he is succeeding , no reason to mess with it unless he is a perfectionist.

Young College/Kid example was merely in reference to @socallefty mentioning they know their swingweight etc., they mostly don't and just use what they bought off the shelf with the strings they like. In a way that's "knowing" the SW but they couldn't give you a number. ' But, it also answers partially the OP question about high level players not using the RF97.

But, even older people can improve and do more, explore more shots, have the chance to increase RHS with a lighter racket instead of trying to slowly swing an RF97 or bunting balls with it. Lighter is just 310 or 320, the big majority of off the shelf rackets, the 340 gram stuff is not lighter when I say lighter. I'm not suggesting 300 gram super light stuff just in case.

Again I agree with you in spirit but would caution against huge and unnecessary simplications based on a limited world view.

Here are some random points - In my 40s can punch hard (maybe harder than ever) but cannot punch fast. Also a light stiff racket is harder in my body than a heavy soft racket especially when strung at the tension I like in the stiffer frame, also higher than the soft heavy one. Why should anyone spend weeks and months adjusting to a new racquet EZ98 that a lot of people have complained gave them arm issues?

No reason to make any big changes up or down unless rhe player wants, needs to, or has to.

jimmy8 · Aug 9, 2023

PhxRacket said:
I absolutely agree. I have always favored heavier, head heavy racquets. I demoed the Shift 315 and it was 351 grams!! Maybe too much as I was late too often for my own sake. Fantastic racquet and I though, if I could just get an under spec one…maybe. When I returned it to my local store, I picked up the Shift 300 on a whim. I am not a fan of light racquets.
But when I took it out to a training sesh with a guy I played college tennis with…it’s remarkable. It took a little bit to alter my timing, but after that-precision, power and control in a package I could swing for a bit. I’m a little concerned about the stiffness tho. I’m playing some 4.5/5.0 dubs Friday and Saturday so more to come.

351 unstrung? Wow!

I demoed the 300 only.

Yamin · Aug 9, 2023

FuzzyYellowBalls said:
how much money do you think a manufacturer saves going 20 grams lighter on a racket......lolz

idk the cost of graphite or whatever, but 5-10% less cost in raw material is huge

FuzzyYellowBalls · Aug 9, 2023

socallefty said:
I see people saying you need better footwork to play with heavy racquets whereas my experience is the opposite. When I am late to the ball, my 335-340 SW Pure Strike Tour racquet can get the ball back deep even without a complete high-RHS swing. When I am late to the ball while demoing lighter racquets like the Strike VS or regular weight Strike, an abbreviated late swing leaves the balls short. I feel like with the lighter racquets, I have more of a need to get to the ball on time even on defense so that I can generate a high-RHS swing to send the ball back deep.

Having played with 12+ oz racquets all my life, I don’t have the habit of getting to the ball as early as I need to with lighter racquets and so I have a timing problem. Probably those who grow up with lighter racquets have the opposite timing problem of generating the RHS they are used to with heavy racquets. If you played with lighter racquets all your life and suddenly tried the RF97, you will find it too heavy to swing fast. I don’t have a problem with that, but I don‘t like it because it is too stiff with a small sweet spot compared to the Pure Strike Tour.

I don’t believe there Is one spec range suitable for everyone as it is heavily dependent on what specs you developed your game with as your ‘normal’ timing is influenced by that.

That's a good point. The footwork thing is the phenomenon that most anyone who grabs a RF97 and hits with it against a ball machine can bash the shooot out of the ball with full blast 100% swings and hit amazing shots. But, in a real match, it doesn't work that way, especially over 3 hours of singles, usually a 2 match Saturday in a tournament, then in the finals on Sunday the day after.

Using it as a slower swinging racket works for defense and if you want to only play that style. But, that doesn't really unlock that first hit "wow" the RF97 gives, it's just a heavy racket at that point bunting things back.

The RF97 is the best racket if you could do the footwork thing over and over and over, just like the pros.

But, a lighter stick will allow you to evolve and still swing hard and out in hour 3 etc. It takes adjustment, but the payoff is nice.

anyone can move on from the specs they developed with , it just takes time and practice. You could especially do it more easily with as much court time and self awareness that you have.

Casper777 · Aug 9, 2023

Again... what do you consider heavy?? RF97 is the extreme exemple but what about 310 gr frames... are those heavy? Experienced player only??

basil J · Aug 9, 2023

I use frames between 11.9 oz and 12.4 oz. My coach broke a string the other day and picked up one of my Melbournes at 12.4 oz strung with full vs gut, for the rest of the session. He said "wow what a club, haven't used a frame like this since college". After 10 minutes of hitting, he really started to enjoy the mass. His balls were heavier and coming in faster, but with a lower trajectory this his usual ezone 98. He said he can see why I love the frame so much but felt he could not use it competitively. I disagreed. He IMO', played better with it and would have to adjust his game a bit to accommodate the frame. I could see maybe it would be tough for teaching all day, but for match play I like to go as heavy as feasible. Usually determined by how the weight affects my serving. almost never off the ground. I am 62 he is 36. the only place i really like a light frame is serving. If a racquet is too light, I get a sore elbow.

TennisHound · Aug 9, 2023

socallefty · Aug 9, 2023

Use what you want. Stop telling other experienced players to use what you like. The racquet is just a tool and there is room for players to excel or enjoy playing with different specs.

Trinity110 · Aug 9, 2023

FuzzyYellowBalls said:
Truth, but they are what makes these TTalk forums famous in the real tennis world and on other internet tennis bubbles. Need MOOOOAAHR weight for stability and plow, must add 20 grams to 3 and 9. It's what makes this place special really.

It seems for a lot of people could get God's own racquet delivered to them by angels and they would say "It is a fantastic racquet. Really great once I added a gram at 10 and 2."

I sometimes wonder if the racquet designers ever read that and think, "Uh, you know, we did just that already!"

gold325 · Aug 9, 2023

TennisHound said:
Sounds like you might’ve had a good hitting session and wanted to make a thread.

Thats too good but....

(Sorry, I couldn't resist)

slipgrip93 · Aug 9, 2023

TennisHound said:
I keep waiting for the argument “My grandma still uses a weighted up 15oz wood racquet because she uses her legs and prepares early.” Lol

An anecdote. I'd met a lady in her early 60's who doesn't play now, but used to have been a top junior in her state in her early teens in the 70's.
She had used a chris evert autograph woodie. ("1976 tv commercial"). Later I got one from the bay for 20 bucks, where it was newly strung on delivery, and it weighed at 375g,
and of course I was still initially shocked at the then "standard" 65 sq in headsize. So it's been fun for me to try it out once in a while and 'practice' with it. Where I'm ok with the weight as my main is still the kps88.

eric42 · Aug 9, 2023

Casper777 said:
Again... what do you consider heavy?? RF97 is the extreme exemple but what about 310 gr frames... are those heavy? Experienced player only??

Depends on the balance point and swingweight. For example pro stock Blade 98s generally come in around 303g unstrung, but balance around 325mm unstrung which makes them quite hefty to swing despite the low static weight. Extreme example of course, point is it's about SW rather than static weight.

HunterST · Aug 9, 2023

FuzzyYellowBalls said:
The RF 97 shouldn't be used by anyone, including your level

He advised Agassi on his sticks and redesigned Novak's approach to rackets a few years ago.

Doesn't matter if you grew up with heavier rackets, we all switched to lighter ones as the tech improved, it's easy to transition and just increase RHS. Most of the guys I grew up with playing have gone down to lighter rackets despite muscle memory etc. You would be amazed the utility a lighter racket can provide.

Of course we can all pick up an RF97 and swing it without our arm falling off, but unless you are in the top 10% of athletes it is probable that the RF97 hits a great ball "IF" you are in position to hit with immaculate footwork for an entire 3 hour singles match. Not many people are. Top of the line players, using the RF97? There aren't hardly any if you mean anyone above 4.5 playing 18+ age matches.

I made a small survey of UTR 10 plus guys this summer that I ran into (got destroyed by some in matches). mostly college kids home from college tennis if they use lead or even know their swingweight, most don't. Also knowing the TCU and SMU program and their rackets, most are stock and don't know the numbers, they just know they like the racket they are using.

That's a very interesting video! It definitely makes me think I need to try going lighter because there's no way I should play with a heavier frame than Novak lol

If I go lighter, would it make sense to string lower to make up for the lack of power from mass?

denoted · Aug 9, 2023

Swingweight is really the thing that people notice. I've had people pick up my relatively heavy but headlight racquet and say that it was "light," when it was 30g heavier than what they were using, though the SWs were comparable. I'm sure there is some technique issue associated with a heavy SW, low static racquet that gets heavily imprinted in muscle memory.

gold325 · Aug 9, 2023

HunterST said:
That's a very interesting video! It definitely makes me think I need to try going lighter because there's no way I should play with a heavier frame than Novak lol

If I go lighter, would it make sense to string lower to make up for the lack of power from mass?

ROTFL, typical easily influenced adult rec player. Im now moving over to the theory that @TennisHound had earlier about one good session causing a new post.

(BTW full disclosure, been there, done that - both things - being influenced and one good session leading to a new post)

TennisCJC · Aug 9, 2023

So happy to see someone start a thread that isn't going to cause any controversy.

Truth is racket weight and SW and become almost as polarizing as trying to define "lag and snap" on the forehand or that orange guy from NY that hides military secrets in Florida.

Anyhow, I throw some more gas on the fire. My thoughts are:

1. The French Tennis Federation said adults should use a racket with a SW of 320 or more, 4 HL or more HL and I believe the static weight was around 10.8 or more. I think this is reasonable as the low limits.
2. I think the game of tennis demands a SW of around 320 to handle the pace of the incoming ball without too much shock or vibration even at intermediate levels.
3. As you move up, I think SW should increase to handle more pace and spin from your opponents.
4. No one really gets tires swing a 320ish thru 330ish SW racket. To me, it total bull manure that you get tired after 60 minutes swinging these SW rackets. If you do, you should see a doctor.
5. My personal experience is SW below 320 simply isn't very good overall. Yes, you can point to that kid in college who plays with 315SW stick but he's been doing it for years and simply doesn't know any better.
6. I like racket with these specs: 11.8 to 12.3 static weight, SW 330-335ish, and balance 6 to 8 HL. My current racket is 12.3, 333SW and 7+HL. I am 66 years old, been playing 46+ years and reasonably fit for an old guy. I started at 320SW with my current frames but tweaked them up to 333SW and like them much better at 333SW in every aspect of the game. They defend against pace and spin better, they attack with pace and spin better, they are very comfortable and I cannot blame any 3rd set fatigue on them because I am simply tired in the 3rd set of a long match from all the running. Please don't try to say you wouldn't be tired if you had a light racket because swing 315SW or 333SW isn't going to make a big difference in fatigue. It's your stamina and overall fitness that cause you to be fatigue.
7. Of course, there's a top limit SW for each of us and anything between 320 and 350 or so is fine as long as you feel good with it.

TennisCJC · Aug 9, 2023

FuzzyYellowBalls said:
Yes. While I agree people can survive and play well with the RF97, I agree with Roman , they would play even better with a lighter racket.

There are always examples, how many of the 5'5" 40s Asian RF97 users do you know as opposed to counting up the ones that don't have his skill? Maybe an Ezone 98 would improve his serve and not hurt his other strokes, he may never know if he doesn't try it and train with it. And really if he is succeeding , no reason to mess with it unless he is a perfectionist.

Young College/Kid example was merely in reference to @socallefty mentioning they know their swingweight etc., they mostly don't and just use what they bought off the shelf with the strings they like. In a way that's "knowing" the SW but they couldn't give you a number. ' But, it also answers partially the OP question about high level players not using the RF97.

But, even older people can improve and do more, explore more shots, have the chance to increase RHS with a lighter racket instead of trying to slowly swing an RF97 or bunting balls with it. Lighter is just 310 or 320, the big majority of off the shelf rackets, I'm not suggesting 300 gram super light stuff just in case.

My rackets are 12.3 oz, SW333 and 7HL. I can hit aggressive forehands and backhands with topspin and hit aggressive 1st and 2nd serves. I am 66 years old. I've tried lighter and lower SW and don't like them. I am sure there are those out their who played heavier than me and would think my setup is too light. I think saying you can't use a heavy frame without bunting balls is not realistic. If someone is playing an RF97 and bunting the ball, they would probably bunt the ball with any frame they used.

Power Player · Aug 9, 2023

10 years ago the top selling frames were the PD and APD which are 300 gram 100 Sqi.

socallefty · Aug 9, 2023

Power Player said:
10 years ago the top selling frames were the PD and APD which are 300 gram 100 Sqi.

And ten years before that, the market rage was all about the Head Ti S2-6 series and the Wilson HyperHammers. The last time average rec players preferred 12 oz racquets was probably in the early Nineties or Eighties.

Power Player · Aug 9, 2023

socallefty said:
And ten years before that, the market rage was all about the Head Ti S2-6 series and the Wilson HyperHammers. The last time average rec players preferred 12 oz racquets was probably in the early Nineties or Eighties.

Yeah, its like grip sizes and weights went down since then. My 90s frame was a graphite master in 5/8ths. I had no idea aboout grip size though, I just liked the teal color and the feel of the frame. I used a 4 1/4 now, which actually fits my hand. Companies barely even make 5/8ths anymore.

It took me a while to get down in weight, I always seemed to go back to 320 gram frames from 300, but I have been firmly in the 300/305 camp now for quite a while. It was an adjustment, but worth it in

jimmy8 · Aug 9, 2023

TennisCJC said:
So happy to see someone start a thread that isn't going to cause any controversy.

Truth is racket weight and SW and become almost as polarizing as trying to define "lag and snap" on the forehand or that orange guy from NY that hides military secrets in Florida.

Anyhow, I throw some more gas on the fire. My thoughts are:

1. The French Tennis Federation said adults should use a racket with a SW of 320 or more, 4 HL or more HL and I believe the static weight was around 10.8 or more. I think this is reasonable as the low limits.
2. I think the game of tennis demands a SW of around 320 to handle the pace of the incoming ball without too much shock or vibration even at intermediate levels.
3. As you move up, I think SW should increase to handle more pace and spin from your opponents.
4. No one really gets tires swing a 320ish thru 330ish SW racket. To me, it total bull manure that you get tired after 60 minutes swinging these SW rackets. If you do, you should see a doctor.
5. My personal experience is SW below 320 simply isn't very good overall. Yes, you can point to that kid in college who plays with 315SW stick but he's been doing it for years and simply doesn't know any better.
6. I like racket with these specs: 11.8 to 12.3 static weight, SW 330-335ish, and balance 6 to 8 HL. My current racket is 12.3, 333SW and 7+HL. I am 66 years old, been playing 46+ years and reasonably fit for an old guy. I started at 320SW with my current frames but tweaked them up to 333SW and like them much better at 333SW in every aspect of the game. They defend against pace and spin better, they attack with pace and spin better, they are very comfortable and I cannot blame any 3rd set fatigue on them because I am simply tired in the 3rd set of a long match from all the running. Please don't try to say you wouldn't be tired if you had a light racket because swing 315SW or 333SW isn't going to make a big difference in fatigue. It's your stamina and overall fitness that cause you to be fatigue.
7. Of course, there's a top limit SW for each of us and anything between 320 and 350 or so is fine as long as you feel good with it.

Do I have to go see a doctor? I don't want to go see a doctor.

socallefty · Aug 9, 2023

jimmy8 said:
Do I have to go see a doctor? I don't want to go see a doctor.

I kinda agree with him that it might be in the head. Players who play with a SW 330+ racquet blame their racquet for losses in long matches where their legs and brain got fatigued while those who play with lighter racquets just call their winning opponent a pusher and forget how tired they got or how their RHS also went down. Often the difference between what people consider a heavy and light racquet is the weight of a AAA battery.

It is just like players who play with Babolat and get elbow pain blame the Babolat while those playing with other brands blame everything else like their strings, tensions, overuse, bad technique etc. Social media is full of memes that have become conventional thinking like these examples. You don’t see players in real life using these excuses as much.

thecatch33 · Aug 9, 2023

socallefty said:
Use what you want. Stop telling other experienced players to use what you like. The racquet is just a tool and there is room for players to excel or enjoy playing with different specs.

For real. People love taking pointless stands and using pseudo-science to justify why *their* preference is somehow objectively better.

The trend on tour is toward bigger, lighter, and more powerful rackets because the modern play style has evolved toward a more heavy spin style. That's also why manufacturers are de-emphasizing heavier rackets. But at the end of the day, there is no "better". Alcaraz plays with a stock Pure Aero VS that is 305g unstrung. Djokovic still plays with a beefy racket (353g, 360 sw). Are we gonna argue that either one of the two best players in the world don't know what they're doing?

If you've got a modern, spin heavy style, you probably will like a lighter, whippier racket. If you've got a more classic, flat play style, you probably will prefer a higher swing weight with a more dense string pattern. But there are no absolutes, and arguing otherwise is dumb.

GodlessEndeavor · Aug 10, 2023

What is light to one person is heavy for another person.

A muscular tall male is much stronger than a skinny small guy or woman, and yet you see supposed experts recommending rackets equally to everyone.

An example: if you recommend a Pure Aero racket to a random Joe or Jane, why would you then tell a tall guy who goes to the gym that he can't handle a racket that is just 10% or 20% heavier because it's for "advanced" players or whatever? This is the state of cookie-cutter racket reviews these days.

Why is everyone using such light racquets? Can we really not handle it?

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