The light players racquet dream..., and the heavy players racquet reality check!

[db379]

I've played most of my life with heavy and solid graphite sticks (head prestiges, PT280, etc...) which were heavy but rather headlight and super comfy and stable. In the past year, I decided to look for a lighter racquet because I was finding myself late on several shots while playing matches against good 4.5 and above. In fact, I knew already back then that the racquet had not much to do with it, but that it was just my footwork and timing which had gone wrong because of not being able to play regularly for the past 2 years. But anyway, I thought that maybe I should look into a easier to swing stick, and I started to demo 290-310g (unstrung) sticks. I found some good ones and some really bad ones for my game. I liked some of the lighter players racquets like the Kneissls White, Red etc... which I thought were incredibly solid for the light weight. And I certainly enjoyed the ease of swing, and the fact that I wasn't carrying a log around the court for 2 hours. My racquets, I should say, were leaded to about 330g strung, and they felt good!

Now, about 3 weeks ago out of the blue I decided to take my PK Redondo mid out of the bag for a match. Not smart it seems to impulsively switch racquets before a match, and yet.... I immediately remembered why I used to love so much HEAVY racquets. My Redondo is around 358g strung, HL and feels surprisingly easy to swing for its weight. Anyway, I'm playing a solid 5.0, borderline 5.5 who plays matches in competition every week and I'm thinking if I want to beat this guy I have to let it all out. Therefore, the decision to go with a highly controlled and low powered stick ( I can generate my own power no problem). Moreover, I tend to prefer small head sizes on serves. We start the match, and I'm firing on all cylinders, aces, big FH, drop shots, punishing volleys, everything goes in without a hitch for an hour. I win the set 6-0 (we had to give the court afterwards) ! I'm thinking wow, I love the control, stability and weight of the stick. I realized that I could really hit with more depth and less effort by just relaxing my arm and let the racquet's weight do the work. I've been playing for 25 years, and I feeling like I'd never played with so much control and confidence!

Could that be just a one time, in the zone, game? A couple days later, I play again a good opponent and same thing, I just let it all out having great confidence in my racquet, and knowing that with the weight it won't be pushed around. I again win my match easily, losing only 1 game! I then decide to try out other of my heavier, older sticks and I feel better and better, more confident hitting with those than with my lighter (still very good) sticks. I've been putting in about 2-3 sessions per week lately and the swing weight and maneuvrability is not an issue anymore. The racquets are around 360g and HL, and I can easily swing them for 2 hours, and I don't even feel the weight.

Then the past week, I took a old friend out of the bag... the old Rad Tour, 360g and some, add 2-3 grams of lead at the butt cap to make it more HL, and BANG! I have the blast of my life. I'm crushing the ball like never before, it swings super easy, and I get great depth, control and power on all my shots. I can swing the thing like a baseball bat and the ball lends inside the court within a foot from the lines on all my shots. I have absolute confidence in the racquet, and best of all every shot feels great! My serves are booming like they haven't in a long time. My BH slice is back again, and while with a lighter racquet they tended to lend short and be easily attacked, now I can without effort slice all day and the ball is deep and heavy. I play this guy who hits hard with lots of top spin, and I'm thinking, ok this one is going to be tricky.... We start the match, and I serve 4 straight 1st serves with lots of pace and good placement that he cannot return. 30 min later, I win the first set 6-3, and I'm feeling great, big smile on my face. I can just outplay the guy anywhere from the court, I litteraly crush his serves with huge returns that lend right at his feet, and the guy has a pretty big 1st serve. I'm am just amazed at how much better I can play now when I know that I can kill the ball from anywhere on the court, and that I won't be pushed around by a heavy ball. It's like a revelation (over again?), and I can't even see how or why I should play with a light stick. Maybe, the only reason someone would want to go a bit lighter is if you hit with lots of top spin (which I don't), then I could understand the benefit of a lighter weight, but if you drive the ball and apply moderate spin a heavy stick is amazing for me.

Anyway, enough said for now...

 

[LeeD]

Everyone said that you gotta play with what works for your game.
Since you can swing a normal weight racket no problem for what looks like ONE SET, you should use it.
Me, I like my rackets to work against both inferior and superior players, hard hitters as well as soft hitters, spinners and flat ball hitters, and it needs to work after I'm on the court longer than 2 hours.
I seldom if ever play one set matches.

 

[thug the bunny]

Amen brotha. I pulled my Redondo 93 out today cause my other sticks' strings are getting frayed or flabby. Kept my opp behind the baseline all day long unless I wanted to bring him up with a dropper. Problem was my opp just got new strings on his Bab PSL and was doing the same thing to me. It was a long match with lots of running.

 

[VGP]

Thanks for sharing your experience, db379.

Contrary to (now) popular belief, letting the weight of a "heavy" racket do the work for you actually takes less effort than having to put in the work to generate a heavy ball with a lighter racket.

It really helps if you know how to use the weight of a frame to good effect. Get behind the ball, turn your hips and shoulders, use a loose arm, with a lighter grip off the ground. For the serve, power from the ground up, just keep your arm loose and get the racket moving. On volleys, meet the ball out in front and make solid contact with a good block.

 

[Fearsome Forehand]

Light rackets suck.

If you are playing with heavy hitters, light rackets are death to your shoulder, wrist, elbow, etc. Not enough mass. If you are playing with 3.5 hit and gigglers, light frames are adequate.

Heavy, relatively flexible frames are the way to go IMHO.

 

[TennisMaverick]

I've played most of my life with heavy and solid graphite sticks (head prestiges, PT280, etc...) which were heavy but rather headlight and super comfy and stable. In the past year, I decided to look for a lighter racquet because I was finding myself late on several shots while playing matches against good 4.5 and above. In fact, I knew already back then that the racquet had not much to do with it, but that it was just my footwork and timing which had gone wrong because of not being able to play regularly for the past 2 years. But anyway, I thought that maybe I should look into a easier to swing stick, and I started to demo 290-310g (unstrung) sticks. I found some good ones and some really bad ones for my game. I liked some of the lighter players racquets like the Kneissls White, Red etc... which I thought were incredibly solid for the light weight. And I certainly enjoyed the ease of swing, and the fact that I wasn't carrying a log around the court for 2 hours. My racquets, I should say, were leaded to about 330g strung, and they felt good!

Now, about 3 weeks ago out of the blue I decided to take my PK Redondo mid out of the bag for a match. Not smart it seems to impulsively switch racquets before a match, and yet.... I immediately remembered why I used to love so much HEAVY racquets. My Redondo is around 358g strung, HL and feels surprisingly easy to swing for its weight. Anyway, I'm playing a solid 5.0, borderline 5.5 who plays matches in competition every week and I'm thinking if I want to beat this guy I have to let it all out. Therefore, the decision to go with a highly controlled and low powered stick ( I can generate my own power no problem). Moreover, I tend to prefer small head sizes on serves. We start the match, and I'm firing on all cylinders, aces, big FH, drop shots, punishing volleys, everything goes in without a hitch for an hour. I win the set 6-0 (we had to give the court afterwards) ! I'm thinking wow, I love the control, stability and weight of the stick. I realized that I could really hit with more depth and less effort by just relaxing my arm and let the racquet's weight do the work. I've been playing for 25 years, and I feeling like I'd never played with so much control and confidence!

Could that be just a one time, in the zone, game? A couple days later, I play again a good opponent and same thing, I just let it all out having great confidence in my racquet, and knowing that with the weight it won't be pushed around. I again win my match easily, losing only 1 game! I then decide to try out other of my heavier, older sticks and I feel better and better, more confident hitting with those than with my lighter (still very good) sticks. I've been putting in about 2-3 sessions per week lately and the swing weight and maneuvrability is not an issue anymore. The racquets are around 360g and HL, and I can easily swing them for 2 hours, and I don't even feel the weight.

Then the past week, I took a old friend out of the bag... the old Rad Tour, 360g and some, add 2-3 grams of lead at the butt cap to make it more HL, and BANG! I have the blast of my life. I'm crushing the ball like never before, it swings super easy, and I get great depth, control and power on all my shots. I can swing the thing like a baseball bat and the ball lends inside the court within a foot from the lines on all my shots. I have absolute confidence in the racquet, and best of all every shot feels great! My serves are booming like they haven't in a long time. My BH slice is back again, and while with a lighter racquet they tended to lend short and be easily attacked, now I can without effort slice all day and the ball is deep and heavy. I play this guy who hits hard with lots of top spin, and I'm thinking, ok this one is going to be tricky.... We start the match, and I serve 4 straight 1st serves with lots of pace and good placement that he cannot return. 30 min later, I win the first set 6-3, and I'm feeling great, big smile on my face. I can just outplay the guy anywhere from the court, I litteraly crush his serves with huge returns that lend right at his feet, and the guy has a pretty big 1st serve. I'm am just amazed at how much better I can play now when I know that I can kill the ball from anywhere on the court, and that I won't be pushed around by a heavy ball. It's like a revelation (over again?), and I can't even see how or why I should play with a light stick. Maybe, the only reason someone would want to go a bit lighter is if you hit with lots of top spin (which I don't), then I could understand the benefit of a lighter weight, but if you drive the ball and apply moderate spin a heavy stick is amazing for me.

Anyway, enough said for now...

The weight and balance of the stick has to be in harmony with your rhythm and swing speeds. Looks like you found your personal specs to play at your best for who you are today--which is the only thing that counts: TODAY.

 

[gregor.b]

Yeah,light racquets are no good against a heavy ball.If you have good prep,technique and timing,go as heavy as you can.

 

[db379]

Thanks for sharing your experience, db379.

Contrary to (now) popular belief, letting the weight of a "heavy" racket do the work for you actually takes less effort than having to put in the work to generate a heavy ball with a lighter racket.

It really helps if you know how to use the weight of a frame to good effect. Get behind the ball, turn your hips and shoulders, use a loose arm, with a lighter grip off the ground. For the serve, power from the ground up, just keep your arm loose and get the racket moving. On volleys, meet the ball out in front and make solid contact with a good block.

I completely agree with you, and your advice on how to use a heavy stick is spot on! Thanks for sharing your thoughts.

 

[db379]

The weight and balance of the stick has to be in harmony with your rhythm and swing speeds. Looks like you found your personal specs to play at your best for who you are today--which is the only thing that counts: TODAY.

HI Maverick! You are absolutely right, tomorrow will be a different day. But today, where my game and fitness are (and they are not that great btw...) I can really benefit more from a heavy racquet where I can use the mass to crush the ball. If for some reason my fitness level goes down and I cannot prepare early anymore, I may have to change my weapons. But the take home message is that everyone should use what works best for them, but DO NOT BE AFRAID of heavy sticks just because some say that heavy is more difficult to use etc... In fact, I would argue that heavy sticks can help intermediate players (even beginners) develop their shots and use proper technique more than lighter sticks because you have to put in more effort initially to use the right technique and move your feet. ANyway, this could be a long debate... But you are yourself an advocate of heavy racquets, am I right?

 

[Larrysümmers]

i am a user of both heavy and lighter rackets, and heres what i have to say:
if you are playing a more all court game, and more reliant on hitting crushing balls deep and flat, then go with the ,heavy.
but if you deciced on playing a more baseliner game and you

rely more on spinning the ball in there, go with lighter.

i find for me the radical mp is perfect for my game, it is light enough that i can spin it in, but the SW is high enough to ensure that stable feeling. i just need something a little bit bigger in the head for my liking.

 

[topspin18]

I use a babolat pure storm tour gt and it is currently in stock form. For about 4 months I put a leather grip and put 4 grams of lead (at the 3 and 9) on it and it felt amazing. When i had my racket heavier it was during my high shcool season and i played everyday for at least 2 hours and had 3 matches on the saturday tourneys. We also lifting three days a week. I was playing fine and loved the racket and then the season ended and my wrist started to get sore. I think it might be the part that i stoped lifting.

I was really wondering why my wrist just started to hurt because i was in good shape because i played everyday and i stilled played everyday during the summer.

So i deciced to take off the lead and put a synth grip back on. My wrist stop hurting but it started to get better before i went back to stock form. I am still deciding if i want to back to the specs i had before. I just loved the easy power i could get with the heavy racket.

 

[roundiesee]

OP- thanks for sharing and congrats on your success! If I could ask a few questions-
Would it be possible to know your age and your rating? I think anyone who can easily handle a 5.5 with a players' stick must be at a fantastic level himself! Also most of us who are playing with players' rackets and switching to lighter frames are mostly in their late 40s or early 50s, so would be nice to know which age group you fall into.
What strings and tension are you using? I think part of your current success must be due to a great string set-up. Would appreciate if you could share this with us.
Thanks and best of luck for future matches!

 

[TennisMaverick]

HI Maverick! You are absolutely right, tomorrow will be a different day. But today, where my game and fitness are (and they are not that great btw...) I can really benefit more from a heavy racquet where I can use the mass to crush the ball. If for some reason my fitness level goes down and I cannot prepare early anymore, I may have to change my weapons. But the take home message is that everyone should use what works best for them, but DO NOT BE AFRAID of heavy sticks just because some say that heavy is more difficult to use etc... In fact, I would argue that heavy sticks can help intermediate players (even beginners) develop their shots and use proper technique more than lighter sticks because you have to put in more effort initially to use the right technique and move your feet. ANyway, this could be a long debate... But you are yourself an advocate of heavy racquets, am I right?

I believe that the heaviest stick which harmonizes with your game is best. With that being said, if you are against a bigger ball and your stick is not hefty enough, swing faster. If the stick is too heavy, prepare earlier. After all, it's just tennis, not drone tech.

 

[sansaephanh]

i am a user of both heavy and lighter rackets, and heres what i have to say:
if you are playing a more all court game, and more reliant on hitting crushing balls deep and flat, then go with the ,heavy.
but if you deciced on playing a more baseliner game and you

rely more on spinning the ball in there, go with lighter.

i find for me the radical mp is perfect for my game, it is light enough that i can spin it in, but the SW is high enough to ensure that stable feeling. i just need something a little bit bigger in the head for my liking.

I believe that the heaviest stick which harmonizes with your game is best. With that being said, if you are against a bigger ball and your stick is not hefty enough, swing faster. If the stick is too heavy, prepare earlier. After all, it's just tennis, not drone tech.

+2 to all of the above. I try to find the best of both worlds, easy to swing heft. Got me to the Prince Rebel in stock form. Now i'm looking for more pop. Might go poly to see what's up.

 

[RF_fan]

I recently demoed a Donnay X dual platinum that weighs 12.1 oz and it seemed too light and unstable compared to my BLX 90. I've also added about 15g. to the handle together with an overgrip so the total weight is 375g. It feels perfect.

 

[movdqa]

I made the move to 95 square inch racquets this year and it took about four months to get completely comfortable with it. The stroke that required the adjustment was the one-handed backhand.

I also tried lighter setups but I always kept adding more weight until I was back around 13 ounces. So I have moved from the kps88 to the Prestige MP and am pretty happy with the change. Head size is my current concession to age.

 

[db379]

OP- thanks for sharing and congrats on your success! If I could ask a few questions-
Would it be possible to know your age and your rating? I think anyone who can easily handle a 5.5 with a players' stick must be at a fantastic level himself! Also most of us who are playing with players' rackets and switching to lighter frames are mostly in their late 40s or early 50s, so would be nice to know which age group you fall into.
What strings and tension are you using? I think part of your current success must be due to a great string set-up. Would appreciate if you could share this with us.
Thanks and best of luck for future matches!

Roundiesee,
Thanks for the post, I certainly don't deserve the praise you gave me but thanks anyway. I really am not a fantastic player, but my strokes are pretty solid, and I've played with several 5.0-6.5 players along the years, so it helps. I am in the 35s bracket now, and I've had a lack of training these past 2 years due to my work mainly, but now I managed to play more often and it made a huge difference on my game obviously. I think that for me, footwork and confidence is really what was holding me in matches, and I needed to get more court time and matches in to start to feel comfortable again with my strokes and with using a heavier racquet. The difference between losing these matches or winning them is really in the head... Once I started to have slightly better footwork, prepare a bit earlier and let the racquet do the work, I could really rip the ball on all shots and push my oppnenents back instead of letting them attack the ball. That's I think the main difference really. But by doing this, I'm starting to be more and more confident in my shots, and the racquet is not a problem anymore.

 

[db379]

OP- thanks for sharing and congrats on your success! If I could ask a few questions-
Would it be possible to know your age and your rating? I think anyone who can easily handle a 5.5 with a players' stick must be at a fantastic level himself! Also most of us who are playing with players' rackets and switching to lighter frames are mostly in their late 40s or early 50s, so would be nice to know which age group you fall into.
What strings and tension are you using? I think part of your current success must be due to a great string set-up. Would appreciate if you could share this with us.
Thanks and best of luck for future matches!

I forgot to answer your question about strings....

actually, that's a good question, strings are indeed important, I tend to prefer a good multi or a soft poly/syn gut combo for ex. I used to string super tight, but over the years I went to the lower end of the recom tension, so I tend to string in the low 50s most of the time with 2-3 lbs less on the crosses. I like the soft stringbed for added feel and ball cupping. I think it also helps a little with spin generation.

 

[db379]

i am a user of both heavy and lighter rackets, and heres what i have to say:
if you are playing a more all court game, and more reliant on hitting crushing balls deep and flat, then go with the ,heavy.
but if you deciced on playing a more baseliner game and you

rely more on spinning the ball in there, go with lighter.

i find for me the radical mp is perfect for my game, it is light enough that i can spin it in, but the SW is high enough to ensure that stable feeling. i just need something a little bit bigger in the head for my liking.

I do agree with you that a lighter stick helps generate head speed for more spin. My game is more all-court than pure baseline, however I do win most of my points from the baseline, and I feel that the weight of the stick helps generate depth and controlled power. But, if you like to spin the ball a lot, maybe lighter and bigger is a smart choice.

 

[Disgruntled Worker]

I love the feel of a solid, stable, HEAVY player's frame. In fact, I believe the K6.1 Tour to be the finest racquet ever made. Nothing feels more pure and gives me more confidence than that stick. But against all these kids with their EXO3s and Pure Drives, it's tough NOT to use something in the range of 11-11.5 oz.

 

[movdqa]

I like the concept of the K6.1 but what I didn't like was the harshness on off-center hits and Wilson's horrible quality control - the two that I received from TW felt like completely different racquets. I bought them before I found out that you can ask TW to match racquets but you really shouldn't have to do that - the tolerances should be a lot smaller.

 

[db379]

I love the feel of a solid, stable, HEAVY player's frame. In fact, I believe the K6.1 Tour to be the finest racquet ever made. Nothing feels more pure and gives me more confidence than that stick. But against all these kids with their EXO3s and Pure Drives, it's tough NOT to use something in the range of 11-11.5 oz.

The K90 is a great stick. I played it for some time when it came out and I really liked everything about it. Great serve placement, great slice BH and very good feel on volleys. I would have stuck to it if it wasn't for the stiffness. It's a comfortable ride but for me it was just at the limit of being slightly too stiff and I had it strung with a soft multi at 52-55.

My only advice, if the K90 feels good to you and you are confident in your shots playing with it, then don't give up because the kids around have lighter more poweful sticks. They probably play a different type of game with more punching of the ball than driving through the ball like one would do with a heavy racquet. Prepare early and relax your arm before impact, you'll be surprised at how much easier it becomes to hit the ball with depth and power.

 

[bertrevert]

I used to play a MW200G at 360 grams 10+ years ago.

Now at 45 I got no choice I just could not lug it for several hours in Australian sun.

I learnt in singles I was late on all my shots whereas in doubles I'd hit kill shots.

After various changes I stuck with LM Rad MPs for about 3 or so years. I found in doubles that was ace, but in singles I was still late, left too many balls short, plus committed UEs.

As I've played more singles, which is opposite to what older players do, I've undeniably succeeded with a lighter more open head from the baseline. ( I prob play 3.5 to 4.5s in US terms)

I think error correction and added power are the hallmarks of many a modern frame, and those characteristics suit this game we play, that it isn't hero shots that win matches...

I'd like to agree with you. But an older shoulder just doesn't swing through like it used to. For an analogy think of those older house painters you see. All speckled paint white overalls, but hardly able to raise their arms above what they do for their work, that's older shoulders...

I just cannot serve all day with a heavy frame, nor keep bat speed. I'd say a 16 year old should keep off the heavy frames maybe too, unless they are starting to play lots. I play 2-3 time pw. Congrats, but you will change your specs according to what you can achieve on court...

 

[anirut]

Weight, SW, balance, flex, material, layup & strings all contribute to the FEEL that suits your style.

I tried to like the Dunlop Bio100. It's not a light racket at over 340 grams, slightly moded. But it just doesn't feel right. My old Wimbledon 88 that weights only 335 grams plays (and feels) a whole lot better. It's all in the material and layup for that old school feel, I suppose. Even the Pacific Vac 90 had to be moded to suit my preferred feel.

 

[db379]

I used to play a MW200G at 360 grams 10+ years ago.

Now at 45 I got no choice I just could not lug it for several hours in Australian sun.

I learnt in singles I was late on all my shots whereas in doubles I'd hit kill shots.

After various changes I stuck with LM Rad MPs for about 3 or so years. I found in doubles that was ace, but in singles I was still late, left too many balls short, plus committed UEs.

As I've played more singles, which is opposite to what older players do, I've undeniably succeeded with a lighter more open head from the baseline. ( I prob play 3.5 to 4.5s in US terms)

I think error correction and added power are the hallmarks of many a modern frame, and those characteristics suit this game we play, that it isn't hero shots that win matches...

I'd like to agree with you. But an older shoulder just doesn't swing through like it used to. For an analogy think of those older house painters you see. All speckled paint white overalls, but hardly able to raise their arms above what they do for their work, that's older shoulders...

I just cannot serve all day with a heavy frame, nor keep bat speed. I'd say a 16 year old should keep off the heavy frames maybe too, unless they are starting to play lots. I play 2-3 time pw. Congrats, but you will change your specs according to what you can achieve on court...

Thanks for sharing, and I appreciate your experience. I am not yet in 45s so I cannot speak for this age category, and I do respect your point of view. As long as you've found what works for you, that's all that counts.

 

[db379]

Weight, SW, balance, flex, material, layup & strings all contribute to the FEEL that suits your style.

I tried to like the Dunlop Bio100. It's not a light racket at over 340 grams, slightly moded. But it just doesn't feel right. My old Wimbledon 88 that weights only 335 grams plays (and feels) a whole lot better. It's all in the material and layup for that old school feel, I suppose. Even the Pacific Vac 90 had to be moded to suit my preferred feel.

I do agree that layup and quality of graphite used make a huge difference. I have always used racquets that felt good on the arm and in play, and I stay away from a lot of the cheap new racquet technologies which feel stiff and hollow. A few years ago, I demoed the Dunlop Aerogel 200 which had a nice feel and flex, but after a few hrs of demoing I had to let it go because I started to feel a twinge of pain in the elbow (which I never had before nor after btw). Every time I picked it up, it gave me this elbow pain within 20 min. I also didn't feel the racquet was as solid as my MW200, and it was a little too muted for my taste.

There's one racquet I like quite a bit these days, it's the Black Ace 98. I haven't played the 93, which I hear is great, but I quite liked the 98 even though mine came at 335g with some lead. I am goign to try to lead it more and see how it goes, but I found it very stable with good feel and good power. So, yes, there are some exceptions out there, but I still think, as TM said, that one should go with the heaviest stick one feels comfortable with. I think that's a very good rule.

Btw, are you still playing the Black Ace?

 

[DeShaun]

Light rackets suck.

If you are playing with heavy hitters, light rackets are death to your shoulder, wrist, elbow, etc. Not enough mass. If you are playing with 3.5 hit and gigglers, light frames are adequate.

Heavy, relatively flexible frames are the way to go IMHO.

Not only this, but a heavy frame can also assist one who is playing up against a pusher or anyone who prefers to float their rally balls into what they perceive to be hard-to-reach areas or spots on my side of the court. But their rally balls tend to float not to penetrate, so, when sometimes I am playing against someone who relies a great deal on his uncanny sense of advantageous court positioning and when he happens to have remarkable foot-speed and hand-eye coordination to boot, I like using a heavy frame against him because the extra mass allows me better to punch his floaters back deep, depriving him of taking up position in his mid-court, where he would prefer to stand and orchestrate things from. I do a lot of volleying or swing-volleying against guys who play like him, and the heavy frame for me can be of tremendous assistance in foiling his game plan.

 

[martini1]

How light is light? Everybody is saying different things here.

Let me say this. I just started playing seriously a few years back and like everybody who is new and didn't know better, got an os and light sub 10oz stick. And I didn't know anything about lead or racket head speed.

Guest what, as play better I find myself moving to a heavier stick, adding lead to my apdc and so forth.

It is all about playing according to the laws of physics. I need to play the heaviest stick I can handle while swinging comfortably as fast as I could all day. It is never about going as light as I can and swing super fast outside of the comfort zone.

 

[tlm]

There is the trade off, if you use heavy it is solid with great plow through, but it gets heavy to swing and you start lugging it around.

The lighter racket swings easy even when tired, but it lacks plow through and can be pushed around by big hitters.

That is why i just switched to the 6 one tour blx 90 asian version. It weighs 11.9 ounces but is 6-7 points head light, so i have a little of both. This stick has enough weight to be solid, but not to heavy so i can still whip it even when tired.

 

[db379]

... So, yes, there are some exceptions out there, but I still think, as TM said, that one should go with the heaviest stick one feels comfortable with. I think that's a very good rule.

It is all about playing according to the laws of physics. I need to play the heaviest stick I can handle while swinging comfortably as fast as I could all day. It is never about going as light as I can and swing super fast outside of the comfort zone.

There is the trade off, if you use heavy it is solid with great plow through, but it gets heavy to swing and you start lugging it around.

The lighter racket swings easy even when tired, but it lacks plow through and can be pushed around by big hitters.

That is why i just switched to the 6 one tour blx 90 asian version. It weighs 11.9 ounces but is 6-7 points head light, so i have a little of both. This stick has enough weight to be solid, but not to heavy so i can still whip it even when tired.

I think we all agree here. You need to use the heaviest racquet you can play comfortably and swing fast. This will change with players depending on their style of play and their level.

 

[TennisCJC]

How light is light? Everybody is saying different things here.

Let me say this. I just started playing seriously a few years back and like everybody who is new and didn't know better, got an os and light sub 10oz stick. And I didn't know anything about lead or racket head speed.

Guest what, as play better I find myself moving to a heavier stick, adding lead to my apdc and so forth.

It is all about playing according to the laws of physics. I need to play the heaviest stick I can handle while swinging comfortably as fast as I could all day. It is never about going as light as I can and swing super fast outside of the comfort zone.

"How light is light" is very subjective. My personal opinion and it is fairly consistent with French Tennis Federation's racket recommendation is to optimized performance and safety use these general guidelines:
1. SW should be a minimum of 320 grams or more.
2. Balance should be a minimum of 4 points HL or more
3. Flex should be soft to medium - mid 60s rating or lower
4. Static weight should be around 11 oz or more

To me, the minimum values above are light. Below those values if not good in my opinion. Even small framed females and 12 year juniors can comfortably swing a racket with a swing weight of 320 grams - that's what I consider light. I also think SW of 330 grams is significantly better if you can hanlde it - more power, more stability, absorbs shock, more control as racket twist less on off center hits, better volleys due to mass.

 

[anirut]

There's one racquet I like quite a bit these days, it's the Black Ace 98. I haven't played the 93, which I hear is great, but I quite liked the 98 even though mine came at 335g with some lead. I am goign to try to lead it more and see how it goes, but I found it very stable with good feel and good power. So, yes, there are some exceptions out there, but I still think, as TM said, that one should go with the heaviest stick one feels comfortable with. I think that's a very good rule.

Btw, are you still playing the Black Ace?

Well, yes, I'm still playing with the BA. But as of now, no. Sounds contradictory?

OK, my house is flooded, so I evacuated with just my Redondo and some strings and left the BA93 safe at home. It could take another month or more before the water gets low enough to get back in.

From what I heard from my brother-in-law who lives next door to us, he said the water level in front of the house is about 1.2 meters deep. It's about knee height inside the house.

Anyway, the BA, like the Redondo, has that kind of old school feel to it.

 

[bertrevert]

"How light is light" is very subjective. My personal opinion and it is fairly consistent with French Tennis Federation's racket recommendation is to optimized performance and safety use these general guidelines...

Such guides are perhaps useful to the general consumer but to my mind they are absurd - about as relevant as a primer in etiquette in today's world.

No, a player or coach should get down into the nitty gritty of what might make their game excel with what weapon. Not be polite and choose conservatively.

Were one to follow this guide all you'd end up with is something not really suited to your physique, fitness, style of play, or attitude.

Now a soldier doesn't customise their sword or their gun, but we have a vast array from which to choose - why wouldn't you? choose that is???

ps. but thank you for supplying an interesting document which I had no idea existed...

 

[nickarnold2000]

Such guides are perhaps useful to the general consumer but to my mind they are absurd - about as relevant as a primer in etiquette in today's world.

No, a player or coach should get down into the nitty gritty of what might make their game excel with what weapon. Not be polite and choose conservatively.

Were one to follow this guide all you'd end up with is something not really suited to your physique, fitness, style of play, or attitude.

Now a soldier doesn't customise their sword or their gun, but we have a vast array from which to choose - why wouldn't you? choose that is???

ps. but thank you for supplying an interesting document which I had no idea existed...

Actually, all of the special forces(think SAS, Seals) guys do have their assault rifles customed altered to their personal specs so as you start improving in tennis it only makes sense to mod your racket.

 

[LeeD]

Good call, Nickarnold2000..
As an E-3 and pretty good shot, I had customized .45's for the meets.
After that stint, I got into shooting IPSC and PracticalPistol, with the guns modified about triple it's original worth. I'd pay maybe $400 for a stock gun, then add easily $1,200 on modifications, trigger jobs, mag well bevels, higher Q carbon steel parts, matched and machined slides, $400 sights, $300 grips, reworked mags, Q springs and new high carbon pins to keep everything aligned perfectly, plus a host of other more foo foo stuff.
Custom is a part of any sport, we just don't always see it from a casual enthusiast's view.

 

[hoodjem]

Oh, how I wish Dunlop made a 300 16X19 with some 11.6-12.0 stock weight on it!!

 

[Timbo's hopeless slice]

Actually, all of the special forces(think SAS, Seals) guys do have their assault rifles customed altered to their personal specs so as you start improving in tennis it only makes sense to mod your racket.

Hey Bert, I was in the RAR back in the early nineties and we (the infantry) were encouraged to customise our primary weapons as much as we wanted, even to the point of aftermarket scopes.
(this was the original AUS-STEYR F88 with that stupid round sight without a crosshair, so it made sense!)

And yet I never mod my racquets, how bizarre...

 

[bertrevert]

And yet I never mod my racquets, how bizarre...

:grin::lol:

Weapon of choice Timbo - but ona tennis court!!??!!?! Cross hairs of doom...

Ok, ok white flag, white flag!

I had in mind how weapons overall throughout history due to each technological advancement have meant an advantage if you possessed them. I mean also there is a long litany of failed technology, sometimes only being found out a failure on the field of battle. Too late therefore.

My analogy was used becuase I think the OP has proved their most useful specs where it counts - on the field/court. That is the place to do it.

Yet the fact that this debate comes up in various guises makes me wonder if it is not something fundamental to our game we keep discussing?

That heavy flat hitting can win out over high spin - that is until you meet someone with great wheels and uber-spin that gets your kill shots back, then that weight starts to weigh you down, you tire in the sun, and like a knight your sword and armour are a liability.

Given we talk about swingweights and stringbeds, baseline versus coming in, and spin and flat hitting - there seems to be some fundamental dichotomies that a player has to decide which side they're on - that there is no fence sitting out on the field - but does this mean we are all weighing up on which side we are of Pete vs Agassi, Roger v Rafa, flat and heavy versus consistent spin?

There are many ways to win a tennis match but I keep coming back in my own racquet choices to something like this divide...

 

[bertrevert]

ps. before posting using that weapons analogy I tried to Google whether Romans modified their swords cos I could only think of their standardised weapon (the Gladius?). That the ubiquity of the Gladius was roughly the same thing to the way we all use roughly the same thing (within rules) - the modern racquet.

Did the Gladius suit all who served?

Do our racquets?

 

[Gee]

There's one racquet I like quite a bit these days, it's the Black Ace 98. I haven't played the 93, which I hear is great, but I quite liked the 98 even though mine came at 335g with some lead. I am goign to try to lead it more and see how it goes, but I found it very stable with good feel and good power. So, yes, there are some exceptions out there, but I still think, as TM said, that one should go with the heaviest stick one feels comfortable with. I think that's a very good rule.

Nice to read you like the BA98 as I recently switched definetely to my BA98. Here are my reviews on the BA98 if you're interested:
http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=252743

Another thread about someone switching from a PT57A to the BA98 you can find here:
http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=396640

Interesting your BA came at 335g. Where did they put lead and how do you intend to fine tune it more?

 

[TennisCJC]

Oh, how I wish Dunlop made a 300 16X19 with some 11.6-12.0 stock weight on it!!

Buy the bio 300 or 4d 300 and slap some lead tape on it. Easy to get what you want. Read a couple of articles on how to use lead tape and you should be able to build a very good racket in the weight range you want. It isn't hard. I would venture that if you add 2-3 grams to 3 o'clock, 2-3 grams to 9 o'clock, 1 gram at 12 o'clock (preferrably under the bumper so it's out of the way for stinging, and counter the head weight with equal amount of weight under the replacement grip; you will have a beast of a racket. You can try more, less or different location but my experience is it is fairly easy to improve the playability of a light racket. You could add more under the grip if you want it more HL.

I think dunlop has a 200 lite that is 16x19, and it is a good option to customize.

 

[JT_2eighty]

Well said, db.

The first paragraph of your OP almost exactly describes my situation over the last 15 years (using PT280 & prestiges), and then more recently (feeling I needed lighter sticks due to aging and perceived fatigue of using a 12.5+ oz stick for 2+ hours).

But, after a year or so of demoing lighter racquets, switching racquets, etc... I'm back to Prestiges and the 12.5+ oz HL frames, playing the best tennis of my life.

Cheers to frames with mass.

 

[Diagoras]

ps. before posting using that weapons analogy I tried to Google whether Romans modified their swords cos I could only think of their standardised weapon (the Gladius?). That the ubiquity of the Gladius was roughly the same thing to the way we all use roughly the same thing (within rules) - the modern racquet.

Did the Gladius suit all who served?

The thing is, sword tech really wasn't very good in the Greek/Roman ages to begin with. It wasn't until the middle ages when tempered steel started to become widespread that swords really started to get good (i.e. they could be made much longer without the likelihood of breaking). The best examples would be the "war swords" of the around the 14th century, and the German/Italian longswords of around the 15th century... probably the peak of sword design and technology.

And to answer your original question, yes you can customize swords. Changing between different pommel weights can significantly alter the overall heft, balance point, and harmonic node locations of a given blade. Even a seemingly small change can make a noticeable difference in the feel and handling of a sword, not at all unlike a tennis racquet.

 

[db379]

Well said, db.

The first paragraph of your OP almost exactly describes my situation over the last 15 years (using PT280 & prestiges), and then more recently (feeling I needed lighter sticks due to aging and perceived fatigue of using a 12.5+ oz stick for 2+ hours).

But, after a year or so of demoing lighter racquets, switching racquets, etc... I'm back to Prestiges and the 12.5+ oz HL frames, playing the best tennis of my life.

Cheers to frames with mass.

Cheers, and congrats on sticking to the Prestige! Which one are you using, the original red one? I saw some of your posts about trying to find a PT280 replacement. Not easy task! I think you used the BB11SE too at some point. I thought it was a pretty good solid frame, what happened to yours?

 

[db379]

The thing is, sword tech really wasn't very good in the Greek/Roman ages to begin with. It wasn't until the middle ages when tempered steel started to become widespread that swords really started to get good (i.e. they could be made much longer without the likelihood of breaking). The best examples would be the "war swords" of the around the 14th century, and the German/Italian longswords of around the 15th century... probably the peak of sword design and technology.

And to answer your original question, yes you can customize swords. Changing between different pommel weights can significantly alter the overall heft, balance point, and harmonic node locations of a given blade. Even a seemingly small change can make a noticeable difference in the feel and handling of a sword, not at all unlike a tennis racquet.

Amazing analogy... but some of us like to think of tennis racquets as swords, so it does make sense

 

[db379]

Nice to read you like the BA98 as I recently switched definetely to my BA98. Here are my reviews on the BA98 if you're interested:
http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=252743

Another thread about someone switching from a PT57A to the BA98 you can find here:
http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=396640

Interesting your BA came at 335g. Where did they put lead and how do you intend to fine tune it more?

Hi Gee! I read your posts about the BA98. I think this is a very interesting racquet for any serious player. I was surprised at how good it feels, and I like the no frills look, no new nanotech graphite whatever... just old, simple solid graphite stick. Anyway, I demoed the 295g some time ago when I was in my light player's period, and I liked it so much I bought it and used it as a platform to customize. I really liked the stability and feel at such a low weight, but I needed to make it heavier to work for me. Mine has quite a bit of lead all over really. In retrospect, I maybe should have bought the 325...

 

[JT_2eighty]

Cheers, and congrats on sticking to the Prestige! Which one are you using, the original red one? I saw some of your posts about trying to find a PT280 replacement. Not easy task! I think you used the BB11SE too at some point. I thought it was a pretty good solid frame, what happened to yours?

Great memory! I still have my BB11SE's, but those are not headlight enough for me. I was thinking of removing the lead, or maybe shifting it to the handle, but alas, I haven't had the time to really tinker with them (plus I'd like to keep them in their original state for now).

Yea, never quite found the PT280 replacement. Was funny though, I had a similar experience like you, I pulled out the PT280 one day a few weeks ago and won a great 6-0 set. I still may circle all the way back to it soon enough.

Right now, I'm actually enjoying the new Prestige, YTPP. Strung with overgrip, it's right around 12.5 oz, but more HL than the PT280. The added stiffness and open pattern make it a spinnier, more powerful version of the PT280, with a touch more maneuverability, without sacrificing stability or flat-winner controllability. Not quite the feel or flex of 'ol blue or the classic prestiges, but I guess that's the trade-off.

I guess my "back to prestiges" motto was a little misleading, I'm more "back to the prestige line", except in their newer form in the YTPP. It is a nice blend of classic and modern frame tech, imho. I still also keep the Prestige Tour 600 (Mid) handy for casual hitting, but the forgiveness and free power of the YTPP's 98" in comparison is nice, especially in competitive settings.

 

[bertrevert]

, and harmonic node locations of a given blade. Even a seemingly small change can make a noticeable difference in the feel and handling of a sword, not at all unlike a tennis racquet.

Thank you Diagoras, now I am off to find the harmonic nodes in my racquet!

Please specify which Diagoras you are

To the OP, what is the surface you played on where you beat the spinner 6-3?

Not only racquet tech moved to the lighter widebody but also the increased takeup of hardcourt and the slowing of grass surfaces has perhaps set the scene for less hardcore heavy sticks among players? It certainly moved the game away from s&v.... (a style traditionally associated with HL, small-headed, heavy sticks).

 

[hoodjem]

Buy the bio 300 or 4d 300 and slap some lead tape on it. Easy to get what you want. Read a couple of articles on how to use lead tape and you should be able to build a very good racket in the weight range you want. It isn't hard. I would venture that if you add 2-3 grams to 3 o'clock, 2-3 grams to 9 o'clock, 1 gram at 12 o'clock (preferrably under the bumper so it's out of the way for stinging, and counter the head weight with equal amount of weight under the replacement grip; you will have a beast of a racket. You can try more, less or different location but my experience is it is fairly easy to improve the playability of a light racket. You could add more under the grip if you want it more HL.

I think dunlop has a 200 lite that is 16x19, and it is a good option to customize.

Thanks for the suggestion--I'm an avid lead-tape user already. I just hate to have to add an ounce to get it close, plus it gets a bit tedious--doing it all the time.

 

[db379]

Thank you Diagoras, now I am off to find the harmonic nodes in my racquet!

Please specify which Diagoras you are

To the OP, what is the surface you played on where you beat the spinner 6-3?

Not only racquet tech moved to the lighter widebody but also the increased takeup of hardcourt and the slowing of grass surfaces has perhaps set the scene for less hardcore heavy sticks among players? It certainly moved the game away from s&v.... (a style traditionally associated with HL, small-headed, heavy sticks).

To answer your question, it was on indoor hard court, medium fast surface.

Btw, let me know when you find the harmonic nodes of your racquet. That sounds like cool physics!