"I fear that this big and significant step could change the landscape of tennis in the coming years" - Nadal on AO 2024 result

Hitman

Hitman

Bionic Poster
Toni Nadal spoke about the AO 2024

“When a player's shots are no longer enough to win, he has no choice but to resort to tactics. But Medvedev didn't even have a choice. The Italian's power and precision completely destroyed him.”

“Once the Sinner & Medvedev match was over, I commented on the match with my children. I fear that this big and significant step could change the landscape of tennis in the coming years. Although Sinner had long been considered Alcaraz's most likely rival, he lacked a victory of that magnitude to back it up. He will be our tennis player's biggest rival in the coming years.”

Toni_Nadal_portrait_sunglasses.jpg
 
NeutralFan

NeutralFan

G.O.A.T.
Razer said:
So Toni is saying that Alcaraz is the new Hewitt in making ? @NeutralFan

That makes Djokovic the new Agassi who will get clobbered by Sinner who is the new Federer ?
I wonder who Rune is in this setup ?
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If I read it right he said no tactics work when Sinner hit with that power and precision and the way Sinner is playing it could change the landscape. Some people said Med was tired so he lost don't know what Toni knows. after one and half set Sinner starts hitting with more authority and his nerves were gone and Med had no answer. I don't know how Carlos will match up this Sinner with a far inferior serve and a far inferior return , less fire power off both wings. I see Carlos retiring if Sinner makes him a new Hewitt, Carlos has a too big of an ego to be the new Hewitt who was happy to lose to Fed every single time.
 
T&M Returns

T&M Returns

Rookie
Thread title should specify "Toni Nadal." And the reasoning seems silly. Medevedev was obviously gassed, but was dominating for two sets. And plenty of players have had a ton of power on both wings, that is nothing unique to Sinner. I don't agree with his take here.
 
Hitman

Hitman

Bionic Poster
NeutralFan said:
Sinner is not Novak , he's nothing like Novak. He's more aggressive and has inferior defense. Let's say he's Sinner not new Fed or Novak.
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I would have to agree with you on this, Sinner is his own man who plays his own brand of ruthless tennis.
 
Razer

Razer

Legend
NeutralFan said:
If I read it right he said no tactics work when Sinner hit with that power and precision and the way Sinner is playing it could change the landscape. Some people said Med was tired so he lost don't know what Toni knows. after one and half set Sinner starts hitting with more authority and his nerves were gone and Med had no answer. I don't know how Carlos will match up this Sinner with a far inferior serve and a far inferior return , less fire power off both wings. I see Carlos retiring if Sinner makes him a new Hewitt, Carlos has a too big of an ego to be the new Hewitt who was happy to lose to Fed every single time.
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This is hugely contingent on the assumption that Sinner will get better and better quickly from now as any ATG normally does between the age of 22-25 and reach levels which will be beyond betas like Med or old alphas like Djokovic, to counter a peak ATG in mid 20s you need at least another great player also aged same in that bracket. For this same reason to tackle Federer in that era we had Nadal, we had Safin, but the great Agassi could not fight off Federer despite his best efforts. So if that is the trend we see now and Djokovic's energy levels are not long good enough to beat Sinner then the burden to beat Sinner rests on Alcaraz, and if Alcaraz is the new Hewitt then we are indeed looking at some years of Federer type dominance on the horizon unless Rune or someone levels up. All this is dependent Sinner taking the next leap, I wont believe it until I see it. The gap between 1st slam and second slam is normally big for players, Federer is probably the quickest to convert his 1st slam to his second with a 1 failed slam interval in between. Lets see where Sinner goes from here, he probably won't win French and so he will have the chance to do a Federer's trajectory at Wimbledon... or the US open. W2024 and USO2024 will be very interesting slams ahead.
 
NeutralFan

NeutralFan

G.O.A.T.
Razer said:
This is hugely contingent on the assumption that Sinner will get better and better quickly from now as any ATG normally does between the age of 22-25 and reach levels which will be beyond betas like Med or old alphas like Djokovic, to counter a peak ATG in mid 20s you need at least another great player also aged same in that bracket. For this same reason to tackle Federer in that era we had Nadal, we had Safin, but the great Agassi could not fight off Federer despite his best efforts. So if that is the trend we see now and Djokovic's energy levels are not long good enough to beat Sinner then the burden to beat Sinner rests on Alcaraz, and if Alcaraz is the new Hewitt then we are indeed looking at some years of Federer type dominance on the horizon unless Rune or someone levels up. All this is dependent Sinner taking the next leap, I wont believe it until I see it. The gap between 1st slam and second slam is normally big for players, Federer is probably the quickest to convert his 1st slam to his second with a 1 failed slam interval in between. Lets see where Sinner goes from here, he probably won't win French and so he will have the chance to do a Federer's trajectory at Wimbledon... or the US open. W2024 and USO2024 will be very interesting slams ahead.
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It's not assumption but he has got better in short span of time and it showed in his results. His record against top 5 in last few months have been phenomenal and indicates towards the upcoming dominance. As far as Rune is concerned he's the most overrated player , he should focus on winning his first and second round matches first before thinking of meeting Sinner in finals. Alcaraz is nothing like Hewitt and has far more weapons and can never give a pathetic performance like USO 2004 final. Alcaraz will probably retire if he doesn't become the new alpha.
 
Razer

Razer

Legend
NeutralFan said:
It's not assumption but he has got better in short span of time and it showed in his results. His record against top 5 in last few months have been phenomenal and indicates towards the upcoming dominance. As far as Rune is concerned he's the most overrated player , he should focus on winning his first and second round matches first before thinking of meeting Sinner in finals. Alcaraz is nothing like Hewitt and has far more weapons and can never give a pathetic performance like USO 2004 final. Alcaraz will probably retire if he doesn't become the new alpha.
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I surely know he has gotten better quickly, but what I meant is that we are assuming Sinner will keep on getting better and will also sustain this performance against the entire field for years. It's just 1 Slam now, we need to see him win 1 more slam because we can christen him new Fed's position. It is too early you know. The year has just begun.

1999-2003 -> Federer-Hewitt -> 2-7
2004-2013 -> Federer-Hewitt -> 16-2

I doubt SInner has so much of a top gear to do all this to Alcaraz, but lets see what happens. Carlos indeed has been told by everyone that he is the new alpha, the next ATG, the man to challenge Novak etc etc, looks like all this has gotten into his head.

I seriously think he needs to be kick out JCF and hired Toni Nadal who can give Alcaraz a reality check and keep him grounded. Toni as a strategist in Alcaraz's camp is what Alcaraz needs now, or maybe Moya once Nadal retires.
 
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Hitman

Hitman

Bionic Poster
NeutralFan said:
If Sinner had Novak's movement and defense he would probably never lose lol. Ironically even 35 year old Novak is a better mover and faster than Sinner. his movement is improving but it's not there yet.
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Sinner is getting there though. His improvement has been incredible these past few months. It feels like all the pieces are coming together now, he's understanding the game as a whole more better too.
 
J

Jonesy

Legend
Lol, wtf are you talking when mentioning 'our players' Toni? You abandoned FAA in the biggest match of his career. This reminded of the time when Toni spied young Novak training and came back frustrated to his nephew.
 
M

mika1979

Professional
Hitman said:
Toni Nadal spoke about the AO 2024

“When a player's shots are no longer enough to win, he has no choice but to resort to tactics. But Medvedev didn't even have a choice. The Italian's power and precision completely destroyed him.”

“Once the Sinner & Medvedev match was over, I commented on the match with my children. I fear that this big and significant step could change the landscape of tennis in the coming years. Although Sinner had long been considered Alcaraz's most likely rival, he lacked a victory of that magnitude to back it up. He will be our tennis player's biggest rival in the coming years.”

Toni_Nadal_portrait_sunglasses.jpg
Click to expand...
It is somewhat an overreaction. Firstly, Sinner’s A-game is not up to a level to dominate. Djokovic was clearly off, not sure why or how, but the level of play in that match was not good. I think Alcaraz at the moment is still looking good because he has a little time to collect a few. Now both Medvedev and Zverev can destroy Carlito if they get their mind right. Sinner is ahead of both mentally, but needs to work a little bit on his game.
 
socallefty

socallefty

G.O.A.T.
I can’t even follow what he is saying. Is he saying that players resort to ‘tactics‘ only when they can‘t win with their base game. This is the kind of old fashioned thinking (he also doesn’t like using stats analysis) that made him a bad coach for Nadal for the last several years he coached him and why he is destroying FAA’s career. Consider how Nadal is much more aggressive and strategic in how he plays different opponents under Moya which has helped him continue to win even hard court Slams in 2019/2022 and go to semis at Wimbledon (2018, 2022) in addition to dominating on clay.

Medvedev and the whole tour is finding out that it is not easy to outlast Sinner anymore as he hits hard with more RPM than anyone else, serves/returns big and has developed incredible shot tolerance along with improving his physicality/fitness to last through the late rounds of Slams. Medvedev masterfully changed to a more offensive game plan to win two sets and come within two points of getting the decisive break late in the third - of course he got tight at that stage, lost the third and then ran out of gas especially as he moved back into ‘pusher’ mode and tried to outlast Sinner. What would Toni say if Medvedev had gotten that decisive break and served out the third set to win in straight sets? Then, ‘tactics’ would have won Med the title even though his baseline game in no longer as good as Sinner. Djokovic won the Turin final against Sinner by serving/hitting much bigger than in the roundrobin stage where he played a more passive game and lost. Similarly Novak didn’t turn to a more offensive game plan in the AO semi against Sinner and lost badly plus he was also executing poorly.

I think the tour is going to realize that if they want to beat Sinner consistently, they have to pressure him or otherwise he is going to outlast them with his amazing increase in shot tolerance. Only a few players like the top 3 will have the game to pressure Sinner over 4 or 5 sets though.
 
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Razer

Razer

Legend
Sudacafan said:
Medvedev tactics worked fine for two sets.
Maybe, with less mileage, he could have done it.
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He would have had less mileage if he was a better and more efficient player, no ? It is not like he is an old man like Novak or an injured man coming back from injury, Med is in prime shape and yet he had so much mileage, that speaks volumes of how his game is.
 
wang07

wang07

Semi-Pro
Sudacafan said:
Medvedev tactics worked fine for two sets.
Maybe, with less mileage, he could have done it.
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The sad thing is with less mileage he wouldn't have been 2-0 up in the first place. They asked Med after the final; seeing how it worked for 2 sets, will he try to be more aggressive going forward? And he was like "ehh, let's see, whatever, I still prefer pushing". Truly bewildering.
 
socallefty

socallefty

G.O.A.T.
wang07 said:
The sad thing is with less mileage he wouldn't have been 2-0 up in the first place. They asked Med after the final; seeing how it worked for 2 sets, will he try to be more aggressive going forward? And he was like "ehh, let's see, whatever, I still prefer pushing". Truly bewildering.
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That is the classic ‘pusher’ mentality - reason no. 101 to not like Medvedev.
 
The Blond Blur

The Blond Blur

G.O.A.T.
socallefty said:
I can’t even follow what he is saying. Is he saying that players resort to ‘tactics‘ only when they can‘t win with their base game. This is the kind of old fashioned thinking (he also doesn’t like using stats analysis) that made him a bad coach for Nadal for the last several years he coached him and why he is destroying FAA’s career. Consider how Nadal is much more aggressive and strategic in how he plays different opponents under Moya which has helped him continue to win even hard court Slams in 2019/2022 and go to semis at Wimbledon (2018, 2022) in addition to dominating on clay.

Medvedev and the whole tour is finding out that it is not easy to outlast Sinner anymore as he hits hard with more RPM than anyone else, serves/returns big and has developed incredible shot tolerance along with improving his physicality/fitness to last through the late rounds of Slams. Medvedev masterfully changed to a more offensive game plan to win two sets and come within two points of getting the decisive break late in the third - of course he got tight at that stage, lost the third and then ran out of gas especially as he moved back into ‘pusher’ mode and tried to outlast Sinner. What would Toni say if Medvedev had gotten that decisive break and served out the third set to win in straight sets? Then, ‘tactics’ would have won Med the title even though his baseline game in no longer as good as Sinner. Djokovic won the Turin final against Sinner by serving/hitting much bigger than in the roundrobin stage where he played a more passive game and lost. Similarly Novak didn’t turn to a more offensive game plan in the AO semi against Sinner and lost badly plus he was also executing poorly.

I think the tour is going to realize that if they want to beat Sinner consistently, they have to pressure him or otherwise he is going to outlast them with his amazing increase in shot tolerance. Only a few players like the top 3 will have the game to pressure Sinner over 4 or 5 sets though.
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He’s saying that the way Sinner was playing and improved so much that it’s now going to be tough for Tiny Carl who he and his family support.

Also FAA didn’t need any help destroying his own career lol.
 
NeutralFan

NeutralFan

G.O.A.T.
Hitman said:
Sinner is getting there though. His improvement has been incredible these past few months. It feels like all the pieces are coming together now, he's understanding the game as a whole more better too.
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True and what surprised more is earlier he would try to hit through player but in this AO he was setting up his FH by changing direction, rythem etc like Nadal does lol. His movement is also getting better, If it improves his movement further he will be unstoppable.
 
MeatTornado

MeatTornado

Talk Tennis Guru
wang07 said:
The sad thing is with less mileage he wouldn't have been 2-0 up in the first place. They asked Med after the final; seeing how it worked for 2 sets, will he try to be more aggressive going forward? And he was like "ehh, let's see, whatever, I still prefer pushing". Truly bewildering.
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I didn't watch any post-match coverage that day, so that's extremely disappointing to read after I had the same thought that maybe it would teach him he's capable of playing like that going forward.
 
M

messiahrobins

Hall of Fame
The Blond Blur said:
He’s saying that the way Sinner was playing and improved so much that it’s now going to be tough for Tiny Carl who he and his family support.

Also FAA didn’t need any help destroying his own career lol.
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Not sure the nadals are that besties with the alcaraz clan. Isnt there some history between ferrero and moya?
 
M

messiahrobins

Hall of Fame
Toni is a master at mindgames. The more he talks sinner and alcaraz up now and over next few months the more historic a nadal win at rg will be if he beats one or both of them. Seen it all before with him.
 
The Blond Blur

The Blond Blur

G.O.A.T.
messiahrobins said:
Not sure the nadals are that besties with the alcaraz clan. Isnt there some history between ferrero and moya?
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“Once the Sinner & Medvedev match was over, I commented on the match with my children. I fear that this big and significant step could change the landscape of tennis in the coming years. Although Sinner had long been considered Alcaraz's most likely rival, he lacked a victory of that magnitude to back it up. He will be our tennis player's biggest rival in the coming years.”

When he says our player he’s probably referring to the Spanish people.
 
Apun94

Apun94

Hall of Fame
NeutralFan said:
If I read it right he said no tactics work when Sinner hit with that power and precision and the way Sinner is playing it could change the landscape. Some people said Med was tired so he lost don't know what Toni knows. after one and half set Sinner starts hitting with more authority and his nerves were gone and Med had no answer. I don't know how Carlos will match up this Sinner with a far inferior serve and a far inferior return , less fire power off both wings. I see Carlos retiring if Sinner makes him a new Hewitt, Carlos has a too big of an ego to be the new Hewitt who was happy to lose to Fed every single time.
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This is going to age so badly lol
 
Apun94

Apun94

Hall of Fame
NeutralFan said:
I was exaggerating a bit he might not retire and accept his role as new Hewitt. I take that.
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For me I think it's still very very early as to who will turn out to be a greater player sinn vs alcaraz. Not sure if you watched tennis way back, but around 2007-2010ish, we had no idea who would be better Murray vs Djokovic. NO ONE saw djokovic's 2011 and his subsequent career back in 2010. So at this moment, Sinner is in better form but we dont know whos going to be better
 
NeutralFan

NeutralFan

G.O.A.T.
Apun94 said:
Not sure if you watched tennis way back, but around 2007-2010ish, we had no idea who would be better Murray vs Djokovic.
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What?? I have been watching tennis since 77. As far as Djokovic vs Murray is concerned well Murray never had a slam win against Fed meanwhile Novak had two wins and beat him in straights at AO. It was crystal clear who was going to have a better career out of these two.
 
F

FeroBango

Hall of Fame
NeutralFan said:
Now expect Alcaraz fans to attack Toni since Toni is saying what We have been saying for months. Sinner is there to dominate.
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If the Sinner coterie could resist the urge to not make Alcaraz the "new Hewitt" -- Sinner isn't even close to Hewitt yet btw -- it would help your cause quite a bit.

Sinner may or may not dominate. Whatever happens shall happen but what hasn't happened yet is that Sinner isn't yet Hewitt -- the guy y'all try and denigrate Alcaraz with with moronic comparisons.
 
F

FeroBango

Hall of Fame
It's also silly of Toni to think there is no clear tactics against Sinner. Even Medvedev can rush him, as evidenced by the utter domination in the first two sets of the final. Novak too blasted him off the court at the WTF final.

Sinner has many things going for him but invincible he is not.
 
NeutralFan

NeutralFan

G.O.A.T.
FeroBango said:
It's also silly of Toni to think there is no clear tactics against Sinner. Even Medvedev can rush him, as evidenced by the utter domination in the first two sets of the final. Novak too blasted him off the court at the WTF final.

Sinner has many things going for him but invincible he is not.
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Sinner was nervous in first one and half sets.
 
GrandSlam24

GrandSlam24

Rookie
I sometimes get the impression that people now look at everyone, regardless of how they look or how much charm they have. Djokovic compared to the South Tyrolean is like Clint Eastwood compared to Leonardo DiCaprio or whatever his name is.
 
Rovesciarete

Rovesciarete

Hall of Fame
Nobody is invincible, thanks god. I just find it fascinating how elite baseliners and some counter-punchers have changed their tactical approach against Sinner because he has been handling their game plan A increasingly well.

Alcaraz always had an attacking game plan against Sinner but so far they are fairly evenly matched despite the immense quality of the youngster. We will see many shifts and changes throughout their sets, matches and rivalry.

Ironically I think the grass might be the better natural surface for Sinner's serve and shot pace while Charlie's forehand and movement should give him an edge on clay.
 
F

FeroBango

Hall of Fame
Rovesciarete said:
Nobody is invincible, thanks god. I just find it fascinating how elite baseliners and some counter-punchers have changed their tactical approach against Sinner because he has been handling their game plan A increasingly well.

Alcaraz always had an attacking game plan against Sinner but so far they are fairly evenly matched despite the immense quality of the youngster. We will see many shifts and changes throughout their sets, matches and rivalry.

Ironically I think the grass might be the better natural surface for Sinner's serve and shot pace while Charlie's forehand and movement should give him an edge on clay.
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Momentum Sinner now. I can't see Alcaraz winning at least their next two meetings tbh. Or may be he'll pull an IW2023, who knows? I can't wait.
 
NeutralFan

NeutralFan

G.O.A.T.
FeroBango said:
Then Med got nervous and got the ghosts of 2022 in his head after set 2 if we're talking about their mental states.

Plus yeah he can be rushed. He's 2-3 against Alcaraz on HC.
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Not really, Medvedev couldn't do anything once Sinner found his range and making Med run from corner to corner with his big GS. Medvedev had no answer to Sinner's big game.
 
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