Drop first then swing
- Thread starter Curious
- Start date
Curious
G.O.A.T.
Bringing it down rather than back is the main tip here. Vic Braden said number one problem with rec tennis strokes is that they can’t drop the racket below the contact point.
ballmachineguy
Hall of Fame
I can never make it through any of these videos. Struggled to get almost halfway through. No wonder no one can learn anything. There’s not even such a thing as the “slot” position. I wonder how people that become tour pros learn the fh if no one knows how to even teach it?
Dragy
Legend
I got it that the guy suggests to point strings down before swinging at the ball rather than open the stringbed towards the ball too early.
Anyway, I didn’t find what he tried to commute to be much congruent.
It’s also a danger of developing known hitch when racquet dangles down and then gets accelerated from full stop… although I’m pretty sure it’s not what he meant. Because his “hold it there” is while torso started uncoiling, so it’s only arm held from going forward too much, more passively dragged through the slot - which is good form.
agreed, not a fan of how it was described.
he should have just stuck with “point strings downward before forward swing”
but the other stuff he mentioned about holding in the slot, when taken out of context (ie for fast, on the rise, type shot i will do this), will def lead to a hitch, which by itself is not terrible for the avg rec player, but does eliminate developing a stroke that has a smooth loop swing
ballmachineguy
Hall of Fame
You’d have to try to not have the string somewhat facing the ground. One more “tip” to keep someone from having a smooth stroke. See OP’s forehand.
Fintft
G.O.A.T.
Without watching the video, who cares about so many details, besides the OP?
I take back, with proper spacing, tip up, then I drop it, before swinging relaxed, using the kinetic chain. Those steps are challenging enough to be done in time.
zill
Legend
The slot is very much there. It's not as pronounced as the serve (aka trophy position) but there. One has to discover it which is the hard part.
Dragy
Legend
Trophy position is not close to slot on FH…
zill
Legend
Not close but the idea is there...in the same ball park.
zill
Legend
If you want me to be precise, it's
1. Rotate back to slot racquet in power position (in serve it would be the trophy position)
2. Drop
3. Rotate forward
The drop occurs in between rotating backward and rotating forwards when the racquet is completely free with only gravity acting on it hence 'drop'.
Slot occurs just before the drop. Proper slot is very important to achieve a proper drop.
Dragy
Legend
I don’t agree. Slot is buttcap forward, where it’s aligned to pull. It corresponds to the start of drop on serve, when racquet head drops behind.
The difference is on serve you don’t want racquet head to pass over before leg drive. On FH the plane is not the same, the action is different (way less importance of shoulder stretch into ESR), which allows to swivel into slot earlier or later through the motion, with no big difference.
Dragy
Legend
Again don’t agree. Most pro players drop to enter the slot. First pic is where drop starts, second pic is where slot is achieved:
zill
Legend
We have different terminologies then.
I don't have a term for what you call 'slot'. To me that position is not significant mainly because the mind is subconscious when the racquet is in that position.
Or the mind is unaware the racquet is in that position. The mind is concentrated on simply completing the rapid forward swing process and unaware of the racquet position then.
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mad dog1
G.O.A.T.
At what point during the video did he say to bring the racquet tip back before you start the swing?
zill
Legend
Again don’t agree. Most pro players drop to enter the slot. First pic is where drop starts, second pic is where slot is achieved:
To me Djokovic is slotting to power position in the left pic.
In the right pic Djokovic is going through his forward swing, that position is part of that process and he is completely unaware of being in that racquet position.
Dragy
Legend
There’s no logic in calling the left pic “slot”. If you want to call it power position, I at least get where you are coming from.
The way you interpret this makes your individual stroke: you don’t reach the Djokovic left pic position at all, you do as you say: put it back down, then pull from there.
Most pro players’ swings are different from what you do. Just a statement, not discussing here if you are wrong.
Dragy
Legend
Between left and right pics positions he sets his hand onto desired level and path to accelerate, simultaneously swiveling his racquet into buttcap-forward orientation. Right pic is start of major acceleration, racquet is going to lag as he uncoils rapidly.
About his awareness of the racquet, he may be completely unaware of what exactly happens with it but for how it strikes the ball (angle, trajectory). That doesn’t deny the fact that with his technique racquet and arm follow exact path to create intended swing shape.
SystemicAnomaly
Bionic Poster
Pros develop their strokes in spite of whatever they've been told, due to talent.
'coaching' isn't real, it's an illusion perpetuated by the talent of the successful individuals who got 'coached'.
Curious
G.O.A.T.
That’s not his main point though. Drop the racket below the ball before forward swing is the idea. If there’s not enough drop what’s the use of pointing the strings down?
This I believe is the the most correct forehand I’ve ever hit.
Dragy
Legend
No, it’s a mishit which barely cleared the net to land short… There are a lot of much better forehands in your pointplay video!
Curious
G.O.A.T.
It was a very clean brushing contact.
ballmachineguy
Hall of Fame
No
ballmachineguy
Hall of Fame
It’s also not a coincidence that Nadal is even doing what the poster you responded to said Rafa is doing. You get easily confused by straight arm forehands.
Curious
G.O.A.T.
Power Player
Bionic Poster
I think facing the strings down is a great way to make your FH more inconsistent. It's a much more challenging way to hit clean forehands unless you are able to practice daily and log lots of hours on it.
I know this because I used to hit this way. Not on purpose, but it was just what I did without realizing it. Dropping the frame so it's a little more on edge has been a big help in generating easier pace and a more consistent FH for me.
I think the guy kind of mentions this in his video, but it just wasn't very good. The Feel Tennis guy does a great video on this and it's worth digging up if you haven't seen it.
I know this because I used to hit this way. Not on purpose, but it was just what I did without realizing it. Dropping the frame so it's a little more on edge has been a big help in generating easier pace and a more consistent FH for me.
I think the guy kind of mentions this in his video, but it just wasn't very good. The Feel Tennis guy does a great video on this and it's worth digging up if you haven't seen it.
That's actually not terrible, which is a huge improvement for you.
Anyway, I love that Nadal video, I watch it often.
ballmachineguy
Hall of Fame
Not amazing. Hold your hand knuckles down above a table top, say, a foot above the table. Slap the table with your palm. See how many times your hand doesn’t hit flat. It will be zero. Same difficulty as squaring up strings.Very valid point. It’s amazing how some people can still pull it off even with more extreme: strings pointing backfence almost.
See @zill forehand again. Btw he’s even a better example than Nadal for drop first then swing.
ballmachineguy
Hall of Fame
What in the h-e-double hockey sticks do you think you are seeing?
Curious
G.O.A.T.
I can’t. My arm doesn’t turn that much!
zill
Legend
Correct my slot (power position) is very different to most. Djokovic's is more common. His swing on the whole is more orthodox.
zill
Legend
It's important to know when to start the major acceleration, correct. But I never think about the racquet position of when it starts!
Yeah... there's not a lot of slotting there eh...
zill
Legend
Ok he is referring to what @Dragy is saying.
It's an important feature in the modern forehand. I completely understand it. But I worked all these things out myself and use a complete different methodology which is much more direct than how he is going about things here (he is IMO over complicating it / over analyzing it). In my methodology I do not put any emphasis on that dynamic slot position he is referring to here. It exists as seen on the pro players but other things are going on in their minds instead of concentrating on getting to that position.
I wouldn't mind calling the power position a 'dynamic slot' though.
zill
Legend
That worst one is basically not reaching the proper power position before swinging forward. A half baked stroke!
It's interesting the first two ways you mention.
To me it's the 3 steps
1. Rotate back to slot racquet in power position (in serve it would be the trophy position)
2. Drop
3. Rotate forward
But as you say my racquet is dropping very early on! Which I actually am not conscious about. Because my racquet is already dropping as I rotate back, my 2. Drop is basically 'waving/facing the strings to the back fence' and it does so while dropping (a little more continuing on from my dropping of the racquet since initially rotating backward) as you can see that position is also the lowest point my racquet reaches to the ground before lifting upward to contact.
Definitely the best forehands I have seen from you, light at the end of the tunnel in terms of basic FH technique.
zill
Legend
Here is my initial turn
Here is my power position
Here is my drop
It’s all there but I do it very compactly and different in that I am always dropping my racquet. Which is also why I can get my racquet so naturally low beneath the ball yet as I have said I was trying to hit linearly through the ball here without lifting up too much!
Most people's drop is where they pat the dog but that is only my power position, have more drop to come!
ballmachineguy
Hall of Fame
No. Not what I am saying. You didn’t even have the racquet in a proper take back position. Where you have it is already dropped, in my book.
The fh could not be more simple. Just keep listening to any idiot that can post a video on YouTube. It’s worked for you so far!
Curious
G.O.A.T.
My mistake. No one really knows what you’re saying. It’s still a secret!
Curious
G.O.A.T.
Sorry, it doesn’t work in match play. In the heat of the moment, everything all over the place, it’s impossible to drop it nicely and swing forward like that. Has to be much more simple to work consistently when it counts.
Dragy
Legend
Cmon man, this is not very clean:
It’s not terrible of course, and stiff Pure Aero compensates for this, but it’s the reason the ball bounced inside the service box.
The swing itself is good for low ball, just you calling it “most correct” triggered me
It’s kind of reminded me of a coach yelling “Best forehand you hit today!”
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