Tennis and Tennis
Rookie
Gasquet has so much talent, but he doesn't have the mental toughness like other top players....what a shame.
Wow...Gasquet has so much talent...
- Thread starter Tennis and Tennis
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West Coast Ace
G.O.A.T.
In his defense, the pressure from the French has been outrageous. He was on the cover of their version of Tennis Magazine - at the age of 12.
His record for '08 stands at 10-9. Maybe this is his strategy to sneak into Roland Garros with no pressure...
http://www.angrybackhand.com
His record for '08 stands at 10-9. Maybe this is his strategy to sneak into Roland Garros with no pressure...
http://www.angrybackhand.com
miniRafa386
Hall of Fame
i think he has as much talent as nadal, blake, anyone, hes just spoiled. but who can blame him? he was born into a wealthy family and raised thinking he's gonna be the next best tennis player.
Tempest344
Professional
He is talented
but he has to back that up with hard work
so erratic
but he has to back that up with hard work
so erratic
Dilettante
Hall of Fame
You guys only call "talent" to beautiful strokes or what?
CanadianChic
Hall of Fame
Really? Where was this 'talent' today? I am disappointed that he allowed himself to be spanked like that. I thought he was more of a fighter - today he seemed tired and old.
stormholloway
Legend
Where did you get the idea that he was a fighter? Was this from his recent Davis Cup match that he never played?
I think you have it backwards. He has plenty of talent and no fight. There's no drive in the guy. He has no blue collar.
CanadianChic
Hall of Fame
I assume/expect anyone at that level to be a fighter. Not necessarily a warrior like Nadal since he is of a very rare breed, but a little effort would be nice to see. Today's match was a huge disappointment and I lost respect for him. Players lose, I get that. But there is a difference between losing and giving up the match.
Sounds like Hilary talking about Obama
Gasguet perhaps just doesn't care anymore --- he no longer is living his own dream, but rather the dreams of others. Without motivation and focus to realize his own talent, Gasguet will continue his spiral downward.
I suspect that he isn't living the life that he wants, and these issues are killing his tennis motivation.
superstition
Hall of Fame
He wears a backwards baseball cap. Enough said.
edberg505
Legend
I think he gave everyone that impression when he fought a closely contested match against Lletyon Hewitt at the 06 US Open.
zagor
Bionic Poster
I don't think warrior like Nadal is that rare in tennis or other pro sports in general,there are quite a few players with similar mental strength as him.Examples would be Federer(whose mental toughness is very underrated in this forum IMO,it is a very big part of his success),Sampras(won his last Wimbledon almost on one leg,that match against Corretja at USO '96,against Courier at AO '95 etc.),Chang,Roddick(who I feel is generally very underrated here),Hewitt in his prime,Guga,Muster,Connors,Borg etc.
I think people here credit too much of Nadal's success on his mental strength and don't realize how much of a talented shotmaker he really is,the angles he creates with his groundies,the sheer amount of pace and spin he gets,the things he does on the run etc. are amazing,he is also much better at the net then most people realize.On the topic,yeah,Gasquet was pathetic today but he did show mental strength in some of his matches(against Hewitt at USO 2006,against Roddick in Wimbledon when he came from two sets down)so I suposse there is some hope that he'll toughen up in the future.
flyer
Hall of Fame
What does talent even mean, that he hits a nice shot from time to time and has good looking strokes, I don't think hes even as talented as most give him credit for, not compared to the other top players, hes a shot maker so when hes on he dangerous but when hes not hes easily beaten
stormholloway
Legend
I watched that one. It was a good match. He cramped up pretty badly. Still, one well fought defeat does not a champion make.
stormholloway
Legend
Don't be naive. You can look talent up in the dictionary if you want.
It means the game comes naturally to him. The point is that he would be "on" more often if he tried harder.
flyer
Hall of Fame
ok but i think the game comes pretty naturally to anybody that can get inside the world's top 10, so tell me what he can do thats above and beyond the rest of the top 10....i think him having such a pretty game tricks people into thinking hes even more talented than he really is, i mean i could prolly name 10 players that have more game than gasquet
stormholloway
Legend
Sure, there are guys who have more game because they try harder. Gasquet doesn't even try that hard yet still manages to be a top 10 player because of his talent. Understand?
Look, people think he's talented because he hits great shots with seemingly little effort. Guys who huff and puff and scramble their way to victories are considered to be less talented. Their work ethic rewards them with good results/ranking.
If Gasquet applied himself he could be challenging the top 3 because he's a natural ball striker and mover on the court. The same could be said for Murray and Baghdatis. All those guys seem to have mental issues.
Look, people think he's talented because he hits great shots with seemingly little effort. Guys who huff and puff and scramble their way to victories are considered to be less talented. Their work ethic rewards them with good results/ranking.
If Gasquet applied himself he could be challenging the top 3 because he's a natural ball striker and mover on the court. The same could be said for Murray and Baghdatis. All those guys seem to have mental issues.
flyer
Hall of Fame
Murrays had injuries, as for the effort thing.....I think Verdasco, Berdych, perhaps Baghdatis, Nalbandian are all more talented and they do not try harder,
look I agree Gasquet is talented, but people talk about his talent like its on the level of the all time greats, i don't think it is, he only has one great stroke, they all looks pretty but are not very effective, hes a great ball striker but there is more to talent than just ball striking, thats the mistake i think a lot of people make
stormholloway
Legend
Well, he's a great mover and ball striker in my opinion, and there's not much more to tennis than that.
I agree with what I believe you're trying to convey here: enough with talking about Gasquet's talent. I completely agree with this. Results are what matter when it comes down to it. Gasquet has had his ego stroked long enough.
"Today I played maybe my worst match of the year," Gasquet said. "After I started losing the first set I lost all my confidence and I was really lost on court. Anyone here could have beaten me today."
I agree with what I believe you're trying to convey here: enough with talking about Gasquet's talent. I completely agree with this. Results are what matter when it comes down to it. Gasquet has had his ego stroked long enough.
"Today I played maybe my worst match of the year," Gasquet said. "After I started losing the first set I lost all my confidence and I was really lost on court. Anyone here could have beaten me today."
flyer
Hall of Fame
Ok good so we agree for the most part
Dilettante
Hall of Fame
You forgot something: Gasquet may be a natural striker and mover, but players like Federer, Nadal, Djokovic, Nalbandian or even Ferrer have a big amount of different talents aside being themselves natural strokers and movers too.
stormholloway
Legend
Ferrer, in my opinion, is more of a workman. He has clawed his way through the rankings with hard work and determination. The other guys I agree about but they all have either a slam or multiple masters titles.
You listed guys that have already proven themselves. My whole point is that Gasquet has yet to do so.
You listed guys that have already proven themselves. My whole point is that Gasquet has yet to do so.
crawl4
Rookie
people don't overrate nadals mental toughness..matches this year like when he was versing tsonga at indian wells and was down 5-3 and won and just now in monte carlo where for a number of matches he was trailing by more then a break in at least 3 of the matches if i can recall.
he is unique with this aspect but i do agree with you about his shots
heathenrider
New User
How could you possibly know about what gasquet's mentality is?
Buchhalter
Rookie
Maybe he has a talent and knack for losing to players he might beat, or for having a complete lack of motivation. Maybe he is a painter trapped in a tennis prodigies body?
not any more, he seems to have changed to eastern, (BTW FYI full eastern=semiwestern on backhand side).
lambielspins
Banned
I have said it before and I will say it again. Gasquet is only really a great backhand. That is it. He is so overrated it isnt even funny. His game is lacking other ways aside from his mental game. Mediocre serve and forehand for todays mens standards, compare his serve and forehand to Federer or Djokovic and you just laugh. A good net game but nothing special to the point he could rely on it to win him alot of matches. Pretty good mover and athlete, but clearly below the very best like Nadal, Federer, Hewitt in his prime, etc...in those categories. Return of serve not that great, not nearly as skilled in this area as the top dogs. What in his game outside his backhand is so great. Anyone???
As for his being top 10 despite his horrendous mental game, I wouldnt take that as showing he had the potential to be a #1 or even top 3 player if he had applied himself. Instead I take someone who is reliant almost totally on a great backhand, with such a horrible mental game being top 10 as maybe reflecting that what people like Five0 and urban were talking about regarding how weak the mens field is today had more truth to it then I realized at the time, since for a top 10 player to be that many light years weaker then the top 3 all things considered is almost scary.
As for his being top 10 despite his horrendous mental game, I wouldnt take that as showing he had the potential to be a #1 or even top 3 player if he had applied himself. Instead I take someone who is reliant almost totally on a great backhand, with such a horrible mental game being top 10 as maybe reflecting that what people like Five0 and urban were talking about regarding how weak the mens field is today had more truth to it then I realized at the time, since for a top 10 player to be that many light years weaker then the top 3 all things considered is almost scary.
lambielspins
Banned
A perfect example of the ridiculously overrated part.
Salsa_Lover
Rookie
Gasquet has the talent, he has the strokes, the game and the style to be among the great.
The problem with him is the excessive expectation and preassure the family, french press etc has put on him since he was 12.
He was doing well enough to be among the top 10, but everybody was telling him, "hey why are you not #1 yet ? You are baby federer, you should already be winning slam after slam by now !"
I think simply this is the main problem he has. He feels he is an underachiever and he is disappointing family, friends, nation etc, and this affects his motivation and game in general.
The problem with him is the excessive expectation and preassure the family, french press etc has put on him since he was 12.
He was doing well enough to be among the top 10, but everybody was telling him, "hey why are you not #1 yet ? You are baby federer, you should already be winning slam after slam by now !"
I think simply this is the main problem he has. He feels he is an underachiever and he is disappointing family, friends, nation etc, and this affects his motivation and game in general.
CanadianChic
Hall of Fame
They are all under a tremendous amount of stress and have been for the majority of their lives. I imagine pro athletes are about one step shy of actors and singers when it comes to neurotic insecurities. The thing is, not all of them choke when it really matters...Gasquet has been choking lately, and early in the tournaments even.
tennis08tarheels
Hall of Fame
If you saw his match with Roddick last year and you still think he has no mental fortitude, you're insane. There's something holding him back, but it's not that. That was the best comeback I've ever seen.
stormholloway
Legend
Well, those matches against Federer at Monte Carlo and Roddick at Wimbledon hint clearly that he has more than just a backhand. It's easy to harp on him now, as you're doing, because he is playing poorly. When he starts playing lights out you will of course be mysteriously absent from discussion.
lambielspins
Banned
When he starts playing lights out!?!? ROTFL! When the heck has he ever been playing lights out. His biggest achievements by far are one single slam semifinal where he was spanked by Federer, and 2 Masters finals where he was also beaten pretty easily by Federer. That isnt playing lights out, playing lights out would be winning some significant tournaments or consistently making semis/finals for a period, or having a few wins strung together over the top dogs, which he has NEVER done. Even guys like Davydenko, Roddick, Nalbandian, have occasional periods of playing lights out, Gasquet never has. Those results I mentioned stand alot since they are very rare while being surrounded by only 3rd/4th round losses in slams and 2nd/3rd round losses in Masters events. His one win over Federer and even one win over Roddick stand out so much. So no I am not worried about what I would face if he suddenly started playing lights out tennis, he simply isnt capable of it.
His win over Roddick at Wimbledon? Even in that career highlight for him it showed mostly just an incredible backhand. What ratio of his winners were off the backhand that day, and anyone who understands Roddick's game realizes he is one of the easiest players out there to hit winners in a baseline rally or as a passing shot vs, but is so hard to beat mainly since his serve is so hard to return.
His win over Federer in Monte Carlo was the best match I have ever seen him play bare none. He has actually regressed since then and now has less ability even on his good days then he showed in that match. Even as it is Federer has won all 6 meetings since then so order has been set to what it should be there as well.
OK here is a very simple question for everyone. Is there any shot in his game outside the backhand that would even be rated top 20 in the game right now?
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flyer
Hall of Fame
NO HE DOESN"T!!! Im sick of hearing about how talented Gasquet is, hes not that talented, hes a shot maker with pretty strokes thats all he is. Berdych, Verdasco, Federer, Nadal, Baghdatis, Djokovic, Tsonga, Safin they are all more talented than Gasquet is...people talk about his talent like hes Borg, hes just like any other shot maker just he makes it look prettier, that doesn't mean hes talented
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lambielspins
Banned
Totally agree. People overrate his talent significantly. It is because like you said his game looks so pretty and flashy. Guys coming up with incredible shots and gets with consistency and stability like Nadal are falsely labeled as just hard workers and overachivers since they make it look so easy. It is funny how being so up and down and producing your own potentialy brilliant tennis with more rarity like Gasquet or even Safin (although Safin is light years more talented then Gasquet still) automatically makes you potrayed as much more talented then they would be if they did it consistently.
Gasquetrules
Semi-Pro
Very accurate observation
I agree with your analysis completely. Gasquet has had tremendous expectation and pressure put upon him. It's taken all the joy out of the sport for him, and you have to love tennis -- win or lose -- to ever stick with it long enough to become a good player, much less to master the game and fulfill your own potential. Gasquet said he hasn't been enjoying the game lately, and it showed in his loss to Horna. Gasquet seemed to start going for deliberate errors after the bad ruling by the chair umpire robbed him of a game point in the second set. But even before that he looked much more like he was playing hardcourt tennis rather than a game for clay. He was going for quick winners, hitting the ball too hard most of the time. The few times he did slow down and rally with Horna, he usually won the point. This told me he could have easily beaten Horna if his head and heart had been into it. But it wasn't. I don't know where Gasquet's at right now, but it's not into professional tennis.
I think he should take a break from the game for awhile. Relax. Take the pressue off. Let the French press forget about him for awhile and find a new idol to fulfill their vicarious fantasies. Come back when he's ready to play the game because he actually enjoys it and wants to do it.
It's all rather strange, really. Despite repeated tough draws early in the year, he still had some very good wins over players he had never beaten before: Tursunov and Andreev come to mind. He had a good win over Soderling on a fast court -- not an easy thing for anyone to do. I felt he was making progress, despite not going that far in events. Look at his loss to Tsonga in the Australian Open. He played Tsonga a closer match than anyone except Djokovic. All of his early losses were tough three-setters to very good opponents. I thought he was playing well until Davis Cup came along in April, and then he showed poor form in his first match in Monte Carlo, despite winning it easily. So I don't know why the wheels came off his game when they did. I expected the results to come around as he began to get some more favorable draws.
Like Salsa Lover said, I suppose it was everyone demanding Gasquet start winning big NOW.
Gasquet should take a break. Forget the French Open, possibly Wimbledon. Come back to tennis when he wants to and on his own terms and in his own time.
I agree with your analysis completely. Gasquet has had tremendous expectation and pressure put upon him. It's taken all the joy out of the sport for him, and you have to love tennis -- win or lose -- to ever stick with it long enough to become a good player, much less to master the game and fulfill your own potential. Gasquet said he hasn't been enjoying the game lately, and it showed in his loss to Horna. Gasquet seemed to start going for deliberate errors after the bad ruling by the chair umpire robbed him of a game point in the second set. But even before that he looked much more like he was playing hardcourt tennis rather than a game for clay. He was going for quick winners, hitting the ball too hard most of the time. The few times he did slow down and rally with Horna, he usually won the point. This told me he could have easily beaten Horna if his head and heart had been into it. But it wasn't. I don't know where Gasquet's at right now, but it's not into professional tennis.
I think he should take a break from the game for awhile. Relax. Take the pressue off. Let the French press forget about him for awhile and find a new idol to fulfill their vicarious fantasies. Come back when he's ready to play the game because he actually enjoys it and wants to do it.
It's all rather strange, really. Despite repeated tough draws early in the year, he still had some very good wins over players he had never beaten before: Tursunov and Andreev come to mind. He had a good win over Soderling on a fast court -- not an easy thing for anyone to do. I felt he was making progress, despite not going that far in events. Look at his loss to Tsonga in the Australian Open. He played Tsonga a closer match than anyone except Djokovic. All of his early losses were tough three-setters to very good opponents. I thought he was playing well until Davis Cup came along in April, and then he showed poor form in his first match in Monte Carlo, despite winning it easily. So I don't know why the wheels came off his game when they did. I expected the results to come around as he began to get some more favorable draws.
Like Salsa Lover said, I suppose it was everyone demanding Gasquet start winning big NOW.
Gasquet should take a break. Forget the French Open, possibly Wimbledon. Come back to tennis when he wants to and on his own terms and in his own time.
stormholloway
Legend
Berdych, Verdasco, Baghdatis, Djokovic, and Tsonga can be removed from that list.
I would argue his volley and I am aware that the volley is less important in todays game than what it used to be.
flyer
Hall of Fame
Berdych is more solid of both wings and his forehand is more effective than Gasquets backhand, not to mention his serve is about 1 million times better and he moves just as well if not better
Verdasco is also as solid off both wings but his forehand is much more lethal than Gasquets backhand, hes a better ball striker than Gasquet
Baghdatis is also, again more solid off both wings and serves better
Djokovic although he doesn't have a beautiful game he constantly hits close to the baseline and the corners, and is much more solid off both wings and moves and serves better
Tsonga serves big and has a big more effective forehand with a consistent backhand
now you explain to me why Gasquet is more talented than these guys....and "the game comes natural to him" doesn't cut it, it comes natural to all of them
Are you serious??? How can you compare someone's forehand to another's backhand??
His movement, volleys/net game, strategy/tactics (ability to move players around/playing smart), and variety are superior to those listed except maybe Tsonga if he always played like he did against Nadal in the AO.
Apart from maybe Djokovic I agree with the strategy. His volleys are easily the best in that group apart from maybe Tsonga. And yeah comparing forehand and backhand doesn't work.
