Bought a new racquet this week. Haven't strung it yet.
Was wondering if you string new racquets or racquets with new grommet sets 2 lbs tighter than you normally would in order to seat the grommets?
thanks-
Knowledge of stringing nuances is what separates the solid stringers from the wannabees. Valjean has earned my respect as he is the only one who apparently understands the value of adding a couple of pounds when stringing virgin grommets.
Look guys, it is relatively simple. Stringing is both an art and a science. The experienced stringers posting here are sharing their knowledge and experiences for the purpose of allowing newer stringers to learn. If the young guns are not open to hearing and learning from the experience of the veterans, there is no way to force feed it. Those of us with real experiences are sharing the art of stringing as well as science. The grommet seating, as I stated earlier, is a method that seasoned/experienced stringers tend to use. Take it or leave it...up to you, but realize the top-level stringers tend to seat the grommets when new.
Knowledge of stringing nuances is what separates the solid stringers from the wannabees. Valjean has earned my respect as he is the only one who apparently understands the value of adding a couple of pounds when stringing virgin grommets.
just because "it's always been done that way" is not a valid reason.
so enlighten us, what is the "value" of increasing the tension by a couple lbs? i've strung many new racquets without doing this and never had any issues. i'm genuinely interested in the answer, since if i'm doing something wrong i'd like to know :lol:
I am curious as to how/why this works since tension is a relative thing. I understand the basic concept of, for example, bumping the tension from a desired target of 55 pounds to 57 pounds to help seat the grommets. But let's say another player likes the tension at 58 pounds on the same model racquet, so tension is bumped to 60 pounds to seat the grommets.
Since the end tension is purely a relative thing and will vary from player to player, how exactly does increasing the tension help? So if I were to follow this rule and usually string at 53 and then bump to 55, how is this different than not adding the 2 pounds to my first example (55 to 57 pounds)? I am not trying to argue any particular point here, I just do not understand how going 2 pounds over anything but a *specific* tension would have the desired effect. Can someone explain?
Look guys, it is relatively simple. Stringing is both an art and a science. The experienced stringers posting here are sharing their knowledge and experiences for the purpose of allowing newer stringers to learn. If the young guns are not open to hearing and learning from the experience of the veterans, there is no way to force feed it. Those of us with real experiences are sharing the art of stringing as well as science. The grommet seating, as I stated earlier, is a method that seasoned/experienced stringers tend to use. Take it or leave it...up to you, but realize the top-level stringers tend to seat the grommets when new.
I recall, hopefully correctly , that Pete Sampras had new frames or frames with new grommets strung with simple nylon followed by cutting out the strings and stringing with his gut.
Bud, you and I are on exactly the same wavelength. Since there is no absolute tension stated for seating the grommets, I do not understand how x+2 does anything special so long as x is a moving target.
Bud, you and I are on exactly the same wavelength. Since there is no absolute tension stated for seating the grommets, I do not understand how x+2 does anything special so long as x is a moving target.
I think what it means, as previous posts imply, is that with new grommets, ur string job will feel about two lbs looser, than broken in grommets.
So, say u normally string a racket at 60, it'll feel like 58 lbs with the new grommets, if u can tell a couple lbs difference in tension.
The grommets will be seated either way, just feel a little looser. By the next string job everything should be fine.
I always string a new racquet or new grommets tighter, becouse of grommets "sitting" - see also my post approx. month ago. Not too many stringers do that, except the masters. The young guns have to learn more (sometime they are way too much arrogant).
Way too many close minded dualistic thinkers here. Let us know when you evolve to a contextual way of knowing and reasoning and then we can have an enlightened conversation. Until such a time (many years likely) it is fine to do and believe whatever you please. No one is twisting anyone's arm, just stating the way EXPERIENCED stringers would respond to the OP's question.
In my experience, I've received no complaints from stringing +2 lbs on new grommets. i recommend it to the coaches I work with, and they are A-OK with it. IMO, Stan and RP are the guys that are speaking strictly from experience. I'm not talking about a few dozen racquets every year for a few years, these guys are stringing hundreds and hundreds of frames, and are stringing at a very high level.
IMO, you guys are getting it a little wrong, it's not that a +2 lbs job is better at seating grommets, and it's not doing it more effectively, the technique in question is SIMPLY a compensation for the grommets settling.
Way too many close minded dualistic thinkers here. Let us know when you evolve to a contextual way of knowing and reasoning and then we can have an enlightened conversation. Until such a time (many years likely) it is fine to do and believe whatever you please. No one is twisting anyone's arm, just stating the way EXPERIENCED stringers would respond to the OP's question.
Sorry, not buying the art/science argument. It sounds like someone's personal idiosyncracy that's been passed down, needlessly.
Bud - my point exactly. probably one of those things that has been passed down from wood racquet stringers who are "all in the know".
what a load of BS. + 2 lbs to seat grommets? give me a break.
do it if you want. whatever turns your crank. bottom line - you DON'T NEED TO. but if you want to, it's all up to personal preference. there is no harm either way. don't let someone tell you 2 lbs makes a difference. grommets will seat just fine at 58 lbs vs 60 lbs.
Thank you DD. This is more what I was looking for. As I stated in another post above... this would also depend on the stringing machine. On a constant pull, this would not be necessary. On a lockout... I can see a small benefit since it would give that little extra pull and take up any slack between grommet strip and frame.
I think it is a true statement that hitting (and time) will eventually pull down a grommet/bumper guard down to the frame much better than a single tension pull. I've replaced a ton of bumper sets in my time, and I've only seen a very select few really settle in and behave nicely. This of course can be aided by heat guns and/or boiling methods (don't ask), but due to the molding of these plastic pieces, I tend to think that this procedure does take time.We need to think past the tension of stringing alone. When the player uses the racquet the grommet experiences 58-60lb + the force of the STROKE. The stroke then causes additional seating of string in the new grommet strip. To have the desired tension on the string not just fresh off the stringer but after a couple minutes of use, you should add 2 lbs to a new grommet strip.
Or don't, and ignore common sense, experience, and the advice of the better stringers on this board (not neccessarily me).
Yes, of course it's not necessary. IMO, as long as you (the stringer) are consistent, it's better than the hacky jobs you'll find at a sports chalet or something similar. It's also not necessary to weave one ahead, but besides it being easier for the stringer, it also is a little easier on the string. This is one of those "last 5%" adjustments that I feel sets apart a good stringer from a stringer that "just knows what (s)he is doing".Bud - my point exactly. probably one of those things that has been passed down from wood racquet stringers who are "all in the know".
what a load of BS. + 2 lbs to seat grommets? give me a break.
do it if you want. whatever turns your crank. bottom line - you DON'T NEED TO. but if you want to, it's all up to personal preference. there is no harm either way. don't let someone tell you 2 lbs makes a difference. grommets will seat just fine at 58 lbs vs 60 lbs.
now that i have re-read the posts, there is a point that i have missed.
i can see + 2lbs on a new grommet strip to get the right reference tension - if the person is anal and would notice. i have never noticed any difference but that's just me.
+ 2 lbs to seat the grommet on the frame - still totally unnecessary IMO
I agree... this makes more sense than the 'seating the grommets' argument.
But, don't the experts state that a racquet strinbed loses like 10%+ of its initial tension within 24 hours (and this is without hitting with the racquet).
So, where are these stringbed stiffness readings you speak of? Has anyone conducted tests with the 2 lb. extra tension and measured stringbed stiffness before and after grommet replacement? If so, where are they published.
I hope this will be my final post on this topic.
If you take a racquet that has been strung one or more times and string it at tension X (insert your own tension here!) and measure the stringbed stiffness on the RDC or ERT, you will get a reading of Y. If you then replace the grommets on the racquet, restring it with no other variables (ie same string, tension, pattern, etc) you will almost always get a reading of Y minus 2, 3, or 4. In order to generate a final stringbed stiffness with new grommets, (remember, consistency is what we strive for!) then increasing the tension approx. 2 pounds will often land you closer to where you want to be (the original Y variable) than not adding 2 pounds of tension.
Why is this? Honestly I don't need to know, as long as I know it happens. Why does my wife's car get better gas mileage in the summer with the windows down instead of the air conditioning on when my car gets better mileage with the air on and windows up? You know what??? It doesn't matter as long as I understand that it does. Why does the blue raspberry snow cone turn my son's tongue blue for a significantly longer period of time than my daughters? I don't know why, but it just does. I believe that observational/contextual data is under appreciated in many venues, but I for one value the real-world experiences and knowledge and always try to learn from direct observation.
Someday someone may be able to identify the science behind the gas mileage variances, snow cone colors and even why the extra two pounds of tension with new grommets helps make stringbed stiffness consistent. Until such time, I am more than content with knowing what direct observations have revealed.
Yes, it is a little more machine dependent, however, you also assume grommets settle in a (very) short amount of time, which in my personal experience isn't the case. I've seen in numerous cases that grommets are molded with slight "imperfections" or tapered ridges that tend to flatten over time (along with the grooves on the outside of the grommets). I can't quantify how long it takes for these edges/ridges to wear down (i.e. get flattened), but I've seen them hold up for more than one string job, and eventually smooth out and fall into place.
I think it is a true statement that hitting (and time) will eventually pull down a grommet/bumper guard down to the frame much better than a single tension pull. I've replaced a ton of bumper sets in my time, and I've only seen a very select few really settle in and behave nicely. This of course can be aided by heat guns and/or boiling methods (don't ask), but due to the molding of these plastic pieces, I tend to think that this procedure does take time.
Yes, of course it's not necessary. IMO, as long as you (the stringer) are consistent, it's better than the hacky jobs you'll find at a sports chalet or something similar. It's also not necessary to weave one ahead, but besides it being easier for the stringer, it also is a little easier on the string. This is one of those "last 5%" adjustments that I feel sets apart a good stringer from a stringer that "just knows what (s)he is doing".
However, I won't state that it is NECESSARY, just do what you do every time. IMO, I feel that a 2 lb (rough estimate) tension bump renders a string job closer to the reference point that you're trying to achieve, which is really what this is all about.
now that i have re-read the posts, there is a point that i have missed.
i can see + 2lbs on a new grommet strip to get the right reference tension - if the person is anal and would notice. i have never noticed any difference but that's just me.
+ 2 lbs to seat the grommet on the frame - still totally unnecessary IMO
in my opinion if you did not increase the 2lbs, the rigid plastic would try to flex to its original shape (straight), and thus reduse tension by how ever riggid the plastic piece is (unknown to me)
now that i have re-read the posts, there is a point that i have missed.
i can see + 2lbs on a new grommet strip to get the right reference tension - if the person is anal and would notice. i have never noticed any difference but that's just me.
+ 2 lbs to seat the grommet on the frame - still totally unnecessary IMO
That pretty much summarizes how I feel after reading through this thread. Now, I'm not chiming in to pile on or assert authority as there are obviously many well informed and experienced people doing just that. This is just how I feel about it, and I would bet some of you would be able to guess without me posting it. Be that as it may, here I go.
Doing it forever (raising tension 2/3/4/X lbs,) and not having anyone notice is only proof of one of two things. It either DOES help compensate for the new grommets settling, as the proponents of the practice suggest, OR it simply confirms, yet again, that the vast majority of players (pros and amateurs alike) can't tell the difference in two pounds of tension.
Either way, the way I feel about adjusting tension for this and that has always been that it's complete and utter BS. The VAST VAST VAST majority of people who get their racquets strung have NO CLUE about their tension, string, etc... They use their racquets long after the string is dead, making the tension it was strung at initially irrelevant and I consider it a huge waste of time to delve over the many eccentricities of stringing to help them pinpoint an attribute that will become such. I have ZERO patience for such mental exercises when they will never lead to ANY results. This level of fine tuning should be reserved ONLY for pros OR amateurs that get their racquets strung at LEAST once for every 2-4 hours of play.
So here's the rule of thumb. Try it. Like it? Do it again.
That pretty much summarizes how I feel after reading through this thread. Now, I'm not chiming in to pile on or assert authority as there are obviously many well informed and experienced people doing just that. This is just how I feel about it, and I would bet some of you would be able to guess without me posting it. Be that as it may, here I go.
Doing it forever (raising tension 2/3/4/X lbs,) and not having anyone notice is only proof of one of two things. It either DOES help compensate for the new grommets settling, as the proponents of the practice suggest, OR it simply confirms, yet again, that the vast majority of players (pros and amateurs alike) can't tell the difference in two pounds of tension.
Either way, the way I feel about adjusting tension for this and that has always been that it's complete and utter BS. The VAST VAST VAST majority of people who get their racquets strung have NO CLUE about their tension, string, etc... They use their racquets long after the string is dead, making the tension it was strung at initially irrelevant and I consider it a huge waste of time to delve over the many eccentricities of stringing to help them pinpoint an attribute that will become such. I have ZERO patience for such mental exercises when they will never lead to ANY results. This level of fine tuning should be reserved ONLY for pros OR amateurs that get their racquets strung at LEAST once for every 2-4 hours of play.
So here's the rule of thumb. Try it. Like it? Do it again.
Did you get it???It has nothing to do with arrogance. No one who strings 2+ more on newly grommetted racquets can explain logically why it is more effective. It has nothing to so with art, old masters or young guns.
That pretty much summarizes how I feel after reading through this thread. Now, I'm not chiming in to pile on or assert authority as there are obviously many well informed and experienced people doing just that. This is just how I feel about it, and I would bet some of you would be able to guess without me posting it. Be that as it may, here I go.
Doing it forever (raising tension 2/3/4/X lbs,) and not having anyone notice is only proof of one of two things. It either DOES help compensate for the new grommets settling, as the proponents of the practice suggest, OR it simply confirms, yet again, that the vast majority of players (pros and amateurs alike) can't tell the difference in two pounds of tension.
Either way, the way I feel about adjusting tension for this and that has always been that it's complete and utter BS. The VAST VAST VAST majority of people who get their racquets strung have NO CLUE about their tension, string, etc... They use their racquets long after the string is dead, making the tension it was strung at initially irrelevant and I consider it a huge waste of time to delve over the many eccentricities of stringing to help them pinpoint an attribute that will become such. I have ZERO patience for such mental exercises when they will never lead to ANY results. This level of fine tuning should be reserved ONLY for pros OR amateurs that get their racquets strung at LEAST once for every 2-4 hours of play.
So here's the rule of thumb. Try it. Like it? Do it again.
Change of tension for this and that is utter BS !!.No comment. I am rather surprised that you talk about pro's that can't tell the difference of 2 lbs. I would suggest (respectfuly)you keep to what you have experience with.Have you ever serviced the racquet for a professional player ? There is a reason for players asking to have their frames strung the same morning as pick up. The reason being that they can notice the difference of 2 lbs or less just from the tension loss. Why do professional players sometimes kick back a frame and ask for 1 lb less.
Believe it or not, adding 2 lbs for a new set of grometts works, I and many other tour stringers have used this for years and if it were an unnecessary eccentricity or "utter BS" as you put it then we would have stopped using it as we also analyse our actions. I have used this practice on top 10 players ( with its subsequent SB deflection test) and to say that they can't tell a difference of 2 lbs just shows your lack of contact with tour stringing.
My rule of thumb is : string for an amateur the way you would string for the worlds best player. I do it and IT WORKS.
All the best,
Richard