Should Verdasco Have Been the AO Finalist?

lordmanji · Apr 22, 2009

i seem to remember him serving for the match at 5-4 in the 5th set but he his a couple doubles that lost him that game. if that's so, and he did choke away that match, then i think nadal making it to the AO final was a fluke since the player that shouldve beaten him like tsonga at the 08 AO and murray in the 08 USopen didn't. makes it more tragic since verdasco was able to shine at the davis cup due to nadal's absence but when given a chance to shine in the face of nadal, he crumbled mentally.

Pirao · Apr 22, 2009

lordmanji said:
i seem to remember him serving for the match at 5-4 in the 5th set but he his a couple doubles that lost him that game. if that's so, and he did choke away that match, then i think nadal making it to the AO final was a fluke since the player that shouldve beaten him like tsonga at the 08 AO and murray in the 08 USopen didn't. makes it more tragic since verdasco was able to shine at the davis cup due to nadal's absence but when given a chance to shine in the face of nadal, he crumbled mentally.

And I think you're a troll, and a bad one at that

.

tudwell · Apr 22, 2009

Verdasco was up 0-30 on Nadal's serve at 4-all, but he was never ahead in the fifth set and never served for the match.

gj011 · Apr 22, 2009

According to this logic, Djokovic would have been the other finalist if organizers closed the roof for him against Roddick like they did for Serena day after.

In the SF Djokovic would beat Federer like he did on AO 2008 or Miami 2009.

So the real AO 2009 final should have been Djokovic - Verdasco.

Lets try this with other slams. It is fun

tudwell · Apr 22, 2009

gj011 said:
According to this logic, Djokovic would have been the other finalist if organizers closed the roof for him against Roddick like they did for Serena day after.

In the SF Djokovic would beat Federer like he did on AO 2008 or Miami 2009.

So the real AO 2009 final should have been Djokovic - Verdasco.

Lets try this with other slams. It is fun

The Safin-Schuettler final at last year's Wimbledon would have been pretty fun to watch!

Nadal_Freak · Apr 22, 2009

lordmanji said:
i seem to remember him serving for the match at 5-4 in the 5th set but he his a couple doubles that lost him that game. if that's so, and he did choke away that match, then i think nadal making it to the AO final was a fluke since the player that shouldve beaten him like tsonga at the 08 AO and murray in the 08 USopen didn't. makes it more tragic since verdasco was able to shine at the davis cup due to nadal's absence but when given a chance to shine in the face of nadal, he crumbled mentally.

You can't get the score right and the level of tennis was awesome. Nadal would just not allow Verdasco to take him out. It was an heroic effort.

P_Agony · Apr 22, 2009

gj011 said:
According to this logic, Djokovic would have been the other finalist if organizers closed the roof for him against Roddick like they did for Serena day after.

In the SF Djokovic would beat Federer like he did on AO 2008 or Miami 2009.

So the real AO 2009 final should have been Djokovic - Verdasco.

Lets try this with other slams. It is fun

Just like he beat Federer in the former grand slam? Funny, I recall Fed winning that one. Djokovic was in bad form and Federer was playing well after the Berdych match, so Joker should be thankful he lost to Roddick (who would have beaten him even with closed roof) and saved the embaressment of losing to Fed.

To the OP: No, Nadal was in charge of that match. Verdasco put on a great effort, but in the 5th set it was quite clear Nadal is the fresher, more consistent and more stubborin of the two.

JRstriker12 · Apr 22, 2009

teh stupidz.... it burnz!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Results don't lie. The answer is clearly no. There's no "fluke" or "crumble under presure" exception for getting around a loss.

egn · Apr 22, 2009

Yea Monfils had the French Open wrapped up in 2008 until Federer fluked by him!

Murray should have not been the US Open finalist we all know that one right guys!

Better yet Federer had fluke wins against Roddick!

Safin should have won every slam from 2000-2010 all those other people were flukes! Safin was the real deal.

lordmanji · Apr 22, 2009

okay so one of the guys corrected me on the score: he was up 30-love on nadal's serve. but verdasco did double fault on match point.

my point remains that verdasco could not take out nadal unlike guys like tsonga and murray who maintained their hot streak in their runs to the finals.

Nadal_Freak · Apr 22, 2009

lordmanji said:
okay so one of the guys corrected me on the score: he was up 30-love on nadal's serve. but verdasco did double fault on match point.

my point remains that verdasco could not take out nadal unlike guys like tsonga and murray who maintained their hot streak in their runs to the finals.

Nadal did not play well against Murray or Tsonga. He was close to his best against Verdasco and still almost lost.

T1000 · Apr 22, 2009

Nadal_Freak said:
Nadal did not play well against Murray or Tsonga. He was close to his best against Verdasco and still almost lost.

Wrong again. Tsonga was too good for Nadal. Funny how *******s cant admit that. Murray was also better. Another loss we can say nadal wasnt ready for. Anymore, this is getting fun!

Nadal_Freak · Apr 22, 2009

T1000 said:
Wrong again. Tsonga was too good for Nadal. Funny how *******s cant admit that. Murray was also better. Another loss we can say nadal wasnt ready for. Anymore, this is getting fun!

You can tell how well Nadal is playing by the length of his returns. Everything was dropping short against Tsonga. This allowed him to dictate.

T1000 · Apr 22, 2009

Nadal_Freak said:
You can tell how well Nadal is playing by the length of his returns. Everything was dropping short against Tsonga. This allowed him to dictate.

Tsonga played exactly the way Nadal didnt want to. Take everything early, hit it hard and flat, move him around, and come to net and switch up the volleys. Nadal couldnt do anything. Tsonga had nothing to lose and played without fear. That's how blake beat rafa all those times.

tudwell · Apr 22, 2009

Nadal_Freak said:
You can tell how well Nadal is playing by the length of his returns. Everything was dropping short against Tsonga. This allowed him to dictate.

Maybe Tsonga was serving too well...

Nadal_Freak · Apr 22, 2009

T1000 said:
Tsonga played exactly the way Nadal didnt want to. Take everything early, hit it hard and flat, move him around, and come to net and switch up the volleys. Nadal couldnt do anything. Tsonga had nothing to lose and played without fear. That's how blake beat rafa all those times.

Night conditions also helped Tsonga. Nadal doesn't like to play at night. Humidity slows the ball down and keeps it lower. Nadal has had the better of Tsonga ever since.

T1000 · Apr 22, 2009

back to the op, no because he lost

/thread

T1000 · Apr 22, 2009

Nadal_Freak said:
Night conditions also helped Tsonga. Nadal doesn't like to play at night. Humidity slows the ball down and keeps it lower. Nadal has had the better of Tsonga ever since.

Nadal's gotten the better because Tsonga hasnt played at the same level since.

NotSoSuper · Apr 22, 2009

No verdasco was never ever up in the final set.

but i would have bet money coming into that 5th that Verdasco wouldve won... It wouldnt have been the 1st time that the AO had an unexpected finalist

'01- Clement
'02- Johansson.. Although he won
'03-Schuttler
'04- Safin
'05- Safin and Hewitt were both surprising finalists
'06- Baghdatis
'07- Gonzalez
'08- Tsonga

Nadal_Freak · Apr 22, 2009

tudwell said:
Maybe Tsonga was serving too well...

Possibly but Nadal seems to handle big servers (except for Karlovic) pretty well. Australian Open was not that fast. The height of bounce made the bigger difference. Nadal's shots stayed low and were attackable. I made a topic lately in the importance of how high the court surface bounced. I don't even consider the Australian Open of now in the top 7 highest bouncing surfaces. But Tsonga took advantage of the weak returns and the rest was history.

JRstriker12 · Apr 22, 2009

lordmanji said:
okay so one of the guys corrected me on the score: he was up 30-love on nadal's serve. but verdasco did double fault on match point.

my point remains that verdasco could not take out nadal unlike guys like tsonga and murray who maintained their hot streak in their runs to the finals.

So if Verdasco won, he has SKILLZ, but if he chokes, it's a fluke and Rafa got by? Pfffftttt....

http://www.australianopen.com/en_AU/scores/draws/ms/r5s1.html

Your point is moot. If Murray was so hot, how come he didn't even make the quarter finals? And if Tsonga was so hot, he wouldn't have been eliminated by Verdasco in the Quarters. (2008 results don't count in the 2009 tourney).

The answer is - Murray wasn't so hot AND Verdasco beat him. Also, Tsonga got beat by a even hotter Verdasco, and Verdasco was HOT at the AO, he just couldn't get past Rafa.

Sure you can speculate, but the fact of the matter is, you have to look at the draw and the results as they played out. Hypothetical matchups are meaningless if you can't advance in the draw.

Clydey2times · Apr 22, 2009

JRstriker12 said:
So if Verdasco won, he has SKILLZ, but if he chokes, it's a fluke and Rafa got by? Pfffftttt....

http://www.australianopen.com/en_AU/scores/draws/ms/r5s1.html

Your point is moot. If Murray was so hot, how come he didn't even make the quarter finals? And if Tsonga was so hot, he wouldn't have been eliminated by Verdasco in the Quarters. (2008 results don't count in the 2009 tourney).

The answer is - Murray wasn't so hot AND Verdasco beat him. Also, Tsonga got beat by a even hotter Verdasco, and Verdasco was HOT at the AO, he just couldn't get past Rafa.

Sure you can speculate, but the fact of the matter is, you have to look at the draw and the results as they played out. Hypothetical matchups are meaningless if you can't advance in the draw.

Murray was ill at the Australian Open. I'm forced to keep repeating this, since people just ignore it when they talk about his match with Verdasco. It was well documented.

JRstriker12 · Apr 22, 2009

Clydey2times said:
Murray was ill at the Australian Open. I'm forced to keep repeating this, since people just ignore it when they talk about his match with Verdasco. It was well documented.

So he was ill?? - should he have gotten a bye to the final then??????

If he was well enough to play, then it deserves to be ignored. If he was too sick to play, then he should have stayed home.

At least Murray had enough class not to use sickness as an excuse:

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/print?id=3860702&type=story

Even as debate raged over Murray's position in the pecking order, a complication developed: The Scot was hit by flu-like symptoms midweek and spent most of Friday in bed.

Still, it did not seem to have affected him during his straight-sets win over Jurgen Melzer the next day, and he also insisted that it had not played a pivotal role in Monday's defeat to Verdasco.

"It wasn't a physical thing, why I lost," said Murray. "Even after being sick for the last few days, I thought I still came through the match well."

Deleted member 3771 · Apr 22, 2009

lordmanji,
Verdasco played the lights out and saved a tonne of dangerous situations. It could have been a blowout to Nadal. Look at the break point chances:

Nadal Break Points Saved 50% (2/4)
Verdasco Break Points Saved: 80% (16/20)

You gotto love the way Nadal stuck with it all the way while Verdasco was blazing away and ripping big serves and big forehands all over the place. Nadal was too passive in this match and didn't play that great but he was still too good and only faced 4 break points in over 5 hours!!

In the end I think Verdasco is content that he gave it everything he had. Tsonga was playing great versus Verdasco, before Verdasco stepped it up and totally shut him out. Murray was also playing great v Verdasco.

Bloodshed · Apr 22, 2009

Well even if Verdasco would of beat Nadal at the SF of AO 09, he would of been madly exhausted vs Federer and possibly would of lost rather easily vs Federer. I could be wrong about this but Verdasco did manage to skip a few tourneys before IW (Dubai, Rotterdam) because of his AO match.

Fed deep down inside would of loved that Verdasco beat Nadal in the SF so he'd have a walk in the park kind of final to get his 14th GS but alas what we witnessed instead is an exhausting Nadal beating a mentally emotionnal fragile Fed who weeped beyond belief during the ceremony.

saram · Apr 22, 2009

No. He lost to Rafa.

Anyone that knows me knows I am a Nando fan. And....Rafa won. He was the best in the tournament for those two weeks.

Should Verdasco Have Been the AO Finalist?

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