Proline II vs. Genesis Black Magic?
- Thread starter honz
- Start date
T
TennisandMusic
Guest
Yeah I have. Black magic (IMO) sucks if you're used to Pro Line II. Very low levels of spin in comparison. It feels like a cheap string.
Honestly I'm going through the same thing you are. My go too strings are basically zo twist and PLII, with me giving the slight nod to the zo twist because it seems to hit a slightly heavier ball. Maybe not QUITE the control of PLII but that's ok. However both of these strings are about 150-160 for a reel and it would be nice to find a string that would be under 100 a reel or so.
I'm telling you I don't think it exists. I've tried just about every poly out there that is worth any beans or has any recognition whatsoever. Name the brand and string, and I've probably played it. If you want a great mix of playability and cost PLII is IT IMO. The Luxilon stuff might play a little better, but the value for the cost is much lower. The cheaper stuff just doesn't compare either.
I honestly wouldn't even try the Black Magic. If you're a type of player who can really utilize the good polys (polies?
) I would say it's basically worthless...
Honestly I'm going through the same thing you are. My go too strings are basically zo twist and PLII, with me giving the slight nod to the zo twist because it seems to hit a slightly heavier ball. Maybe not QUITE the control of PLII but that's ok. However both of these strings are about 150-160 for a reel and it would be nice to find a string that would be under 100 a reel or so.
I'm telling you I don't think it exists. I've tried just about every poly out there that is worth any beans or has any recognition whatsoever. Name the brand and string, and I've probably played it. If you want a great mix of playability and cost PLII is IT IMO. The Luxilon stuff might play a little better, but the value for the cost is much lower. The cheaper stuff just doesn't compare either.
I honestly wouldn't even try the Black Magic. If you're a type of player who can really utilize the good polys (polies?
) I would say it's basically worthless...
dadozen
Hall of Fame
Yeah I have. Black magic (IMO) sucks if you're used to Pro Line II. Very low levels of spin in comparison. It feels like a cheap string.
Honestly I'm going through the same thing you are. My go too strings are basically zo twist and PLII, with me giving the slight nod to the zo twist because it seems to hit a slightly heavier ball. Maybe not QUITE the control of PLII but that's ok. However both of these strings are about 150-160 for a reel and it would be nice to find a string that would be under 100 a reel or so.
I'm telling you I don't think it exists. I've tried just about every poly out there that is worth any beans or has any recognition whatsoever. Name the brand and string, and I've probably played it. If you want a great mix of playability and cost PLII is IT IMO. The Luxilon stuff might play a little better, but the value for the cost is much lower. The cheaper stuff just doesn't compare either.
I honestly wouldn't even try the Black Magic. If you're a type of player who can really utilize the good polys (polies?
Have you tried MSV focus Hex 1.10mm or any other gauge of this string? if so, how do you compare it to PLII?
i'm currently using PLII, and I love how it plays and how it is able to keep playability until it breaks( around 8h for me ). But I'm really interested in trying the MSV Focus Hex, especially the 1.10mm diameter.
Cheers,
bad_call
Legend
dadozen - using in hybrids - BAM and Hex 1.10 now so here's a comparison.
comfort: BAM > Hex
power: BAM > Hex
feel: BAM > Hex
spin: Hex > BAM
control: BAM == Hex (not an obvious difference here)
durability: ? (haven't played enough to know but the crosses in the Hex hybrid are already wearing)
can u give your comparison with BAM and PLII ?
dadozen
Hall of Fame
Thanks a lot man, but just one question: are you using them on the mains or on the crosses? My guess is on the mais, correct?
Now using a similar scale to compare BAM and PLII:
comfort: BAM > PLII - yet PLII still offers plenty of comfort
power: BAM > PLII, but a very slight difference
feel: BAM = PLII, but they play differently here. The feedback you get from the ball is almost the same, but PLII offers a more crisp feeling. I enjoy that.
spin: PLII > BAM
control: PLII > BAM
durability: PLII > BAM - I could play 8hs with PLII without losing playability, although I could feel the tension loss. But I had to cut BAM out of my racquets after 9hs, because it has lost much tension and I had to start making serious adjustments in orden to keep my ball inside the court.
All in all, they perform in a similar way. Both very soft polys, with good power and they both provide control in a good amount. If I had never tried PLII, I'd probably stick with BAM, but I liked the control I get from PLII, plus it holds tension a little better and has a crips feeling that I liked a lot.
Cheers,
dadozen
Hall of Fame
What did you like better about BAM?
Thanks. I still sorta want to try it just to try it, but it might be more cost effective to just buy a reel of PLII and be done with it! Still have a few more strings to try first though that I've already bought. I should have never tried PLII! Such a great string that now everything else I put in my racquet feels like garbage!Yeah I have. Black magic (IMO) sucks if you're used to Pro Line II. Very low levels of spin in comparison. It feels like a cheap string.
Honestly I'm going through the same thing you are. My go too strings are basically zo twist and PLII, with me giving the slight nod to the zo twist because it seems to hit a slightly heavier ball. Maybe not QUITE the control of PLII but that's ok. However both of these strings are about 150-160 for a reel and it would be nice to find a string that would be under 100 a reel or so.
I'm telling you I don't think it exists. I've tried just about every poly out there that is worth any beans or has any recognition whatsoever. Name the brand and string, and I've probably played it. If you want a great mix of playability and cost PLII is IT IMO. The Luxilon stuff might play a little better, but the value for the cost is much lower. The cheaper stuff just doesn't compare either.
I honestly wouldn't even try the Black Magic. If you're a type of player who can really utilize the good polys (polies?
T
TennisandMusic
Guest
Yeah pretty much...PLII is a great string.
To the other poster, I have tried MSV Hex 1.18 and 1.23. 1.10 would be too small for me. I think MSV Hex is ok. Starts out stiff, relaxes a bit with time, but can hit a hard flatter trajectory ball. I do know I was hitting some heavy balls with it, it just didn't quite have the spin or trajectory I wanted.
I think once you start getting into really small gauges, the usefulness of the string goes way way down. I just don't see how anything 1.20 and down could last at all, unless you're using something more dense than a 16x19. I would still stick with the PLII if you like it that much...
bad_call
Legend
the 16x19 Prestige Pro plays great with the smaller gauges. also was skeptical going smaller than 1.22 but after having tried it...hard to go back. string durability is dependent on the racquet and player. JR comes to mind. :neutral:
T
TennisandMusic
Guest
Yeah...The Prestige Pro was pretty good with 1.20 PLII, but that didn't last long for me. I know a dude who loves it with 1.25.
By the way, Kid Charlemagne is a great song.
bad_call
Legend
T
TennisandMusic
Guest
yeah...me thinks so too.
You a big SD fan? Do you prefer the newer stuff over the older stuff? I really like Can't buy a thrill, but could never get into the Katy Lied or Pretzel Logic stuff. From The Royal Scam on, I thought they really started to hit their stride though.
Sorry for the derailment folks.
dadozen
Hall of Fame
Thanks guys. For me, going up on string gauge is impossible now. Thin polys are working great. I'm playing with the 300T, which has a tight string pattern( 18x20 ), so the match is made in heaven.
I'm not a heavy hitter not a string breaker as well, so durability is not really an issue for me. I'd rather the string breaking before going dead for sure. The last PLII stringjob lasted me around 8hs, which translates into 2 weeks( I play mostly at the weekends ). That's good enough for me.
I remember one person that loved the feeling of PLII but also liked the softness of BAM much better. So he started using PLII on the mains and BAM on the crosses. And he was 100% satisfied so far.
I'm not a heavy hitter not a string breaker as well, so durability is not really an issue for me. I'd rather the string breaking before going dead for sure. The last PLII stringjob lasted me around 8hs, which translates into 2 weeks( I play mostly at the weekends ). That's good enough for me.
I remember one person that loved the feeling of PLII but also liked the softness of BAM much better. So he started using PLII on the mains and BAM on the crosses. And he was 100% satisfied so far.
stanfordtennis alum
Hall of Fame
have used both strings and found the Black Magic to be much better than the Pro Line 2 in nearly every category.. just a solid all-around string IMO
T
TennisandMusic
Guest
May I ask how so? It features less spin, less control etc. It seems to me like it would be a string that would appeal to people who use synthetic gut but want to get into the "poly" world. It just doesn't perform up with the best polys in the areas that they are known for IMO. But if you're a stanford tennis player you must know your stuff.
Also the person I usually hit with noticed right away I had moved from my normal setup to the black magic as the balls had less weight on them.
Noisy Ninja
Semi-Pro
That person was me.
I continue to be very pleased with the PLII (mains)/BAM (crosses) setup. Full PLII was lacking in power/softness; Full BAM lacked in spin potential and crispness. Hybriding the two seemed like a logical choice and I've been quite pleased with the results in my K90's (52/55). For those who like PLII, hybriding with BAM is definitely worth a try as it would save $$ considering a reel of BAM is ~ 40% less than a reel of PLII.
Spin Potential PLII > BAM
Power PLII < BAM
Stiffness PLII > BAM
Tension Maint PLII = BAM
dadozen
Hall of Fame
That person was me.
I continue to be very pleased with the PLII (mains)/BAM (crosses) setup. Full PLII was lacking in power/softness; Full BAM lacked in spin potential and crispness. Hybriding the two seemed like a logical choice and I've been quite pleased with the results in my K90's (52/55). For those who like PLII, hybriding with BAM is definitely worth a try as it would save $$ considering a reel of BAM is ~ 40% less than a reel of PLII.
Spin Potential PLII > BAM
Power PLII < BAM
Stiffness PLII > BAM
Tension Maint PLII = BAM
Sorry man, but I couldn't remember your username and I was too lazy to search for the thread where we chatted a little about these strings. As soon as I saw you had replied this thread I remembered you. Glad that you stopped by to post your thoughts
Now I regret selling my BAM reel(s), since I didn't try this setup. It seems that we had the same feedback from both strings, so maybe making an hybrid of them two would be a good choice for me as well.
DANG!
Noisy Ninja
Semi-Pro
Sorry man, but I couldn't remember your username and I was too lazy to search for the thread where we chatted a little about these strings. As soon as I saw you had replied this thread I remembered you. Glad that you stopped by to post your thoughts
Now I regret selling my BAM reel(s), since I didn't try this setup. It seems that we had the same feedback from both strings, so maybe making an hybrid of them two would be a good choice for me as well.
DANG!
No problem.
Glad to hear you're liking the PLII.
acer4tennis
Rookie
Yeah I have. Black magic (IMO) sucks ...
I honestly wouldn't even try the Black Magic. If you're a type of player who can really utilize the good polys (polies?
????
the guy from stanford probably hits a heavy ball and you on the other hand need a kick in the rear :twisted:
Dgpsx7
Professional
although BAM is a little more stiff I liked MSV Hex 1.10 better in almost every category. Now that I am used to MSV it is very hard for me to use any string. The two disappointments I had after I started using MSV were Big ace micro and SP blackline tornado. The only strings on my list left to try are pro line II and Spiky shark.
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TennisandMusic
Guest
That's certainly a helpful post. Everyone I play with says I hit a heavier ball than they are used too.
acer4tennis
Rookie
dadozen
Hall of Fame
bad_call
Legend
Did you find BAM to be stiffer than MSV 1.10mm? Hmm, that's useful info
didn't share that experience. BAM softer than Hex 1.10 for this player...
Dgpsx7
Professional
Did you find BAM to be stiffer than MSV 1.10mm? Hmm, that's useful info
really, I used BAM's thinnest gauge 1.15mm. I did not enjoy the spin as much because my slice forehand would float a little more although I enjoyed the control. I am a lefty and I use a little more slice most people and I just found the MSV Hex 1.10 to suit my game much more especially for slice forehands and drop shots. However, they are both great strings and fairly inexpensive for their performance. I would try both at some point.
bad_call
Legend
Dgpsx7
Professional
BAM comes in only 1 gauge that i know of.
no your right, I just looked at their website and they consider anything above 1.15mm big ace and not big ace micro. We are still talking about the same thing though.
dadozen
Hall of Fame
Let us know when you try PLII. I'm very interested on how MSV differs from the string I'm using.
Also, I realized that lots of left-handed players like MSV. Is this a pattern, maybe?
bad_call
Legend
Let us know when you try PLII. I'm very interested on how MSV differs from the string I'm using.
Also, I realized that lots of left-handed players like MSV. Is this a pattern, maybe?
lefties ROCK!!! years back, a lefty was my steadiest practice partner.
may have to buy some PLII if i can't get a string trade.
Spiky Shark is horrid, IMO.
BM I liked after the break-in period, but the crosses broke before tension was lost. I need to give it more time.
PL2 I like a lot, but only used it in a hybrid with gut and haven't gone back to it in a few months. I'll string another up soon for a refresher.
Orion
Semi-Pro
Maybe you didn't play long enough to allow the Black Magic to break-in. Mine usually settles in after about 90 minutes of hitting. When it settles in it's a great string.
Try the Black Magic, it's a really good poly!!! I haven't tried PLII to compare but I can tell you Lux string is not worth twice as much. Personally, I need a soft ploy (past shoulder and wrist problems) and BM delivers. I am able to generate decent spin, I'm not looking for crazy jump off the baseline topspin. I want a poly that still allows me to blast a nice flat inside out forehand...and offers a level of feel if you will. I find Lux strings lacking in feel. If I was in my late teen or early twenties and had the energy to pound away at every shot I would probably prefer the Lux. But being in my late-30's, I need a solid all-around string. Black Magic has holds tension well, plays soft for a poly, is easy to string, cost-effective, and generates nice spin.
OP you've gotta at least try the free sets. I was skeptical at first but after trying it $85 a reel is a steal.
dadozen
Hall of Fame
Well, I think I'll try the MSV 1.18mm first. After all, I have one set at home. I also have 2 BM sets, 1.23mm, but I like thinner polys.
PLII is being good enough for me so far. Tension maintenance, spin, durability, comfortness... I guess I have to treat my new toy syndrome ASAP.:lol:
PLII is being good enough for me so far. Tension maintenance, spin, durability, comfortness... I guess I have to treat my new toy syndrome ASAP.:lol:
Dgpsx7
Professional
In all categories besides breakage what do you think of Spiky Shark? I care a lot about spin and I am not a string breaker at all. I play with a lot of touch and spin and the only time I am really hitting hard is when I am trying to make someone eat their 2nd serve. So if breakage was not an issue how would you rate it?
I really need to order a set of PL2, I have heard so many great things about it, I need to just try it already. I will move it to the top of the string list. Do you think it would be a good match for a KPS88? I will also start using a PB10 Mid soon but I am almost positive I will put MSV Hex 1.10 on it.
Dgpsx7
Professional
Let us know when you try PLII. I'm very interested on how MSV differs from the string I'm using.
Also, I realized that lots of left-handed players like MSV. Is this a pattern, maybe?
There are a couple things I can do with this string on a Volkl Tour10 VE MP that I cannot do with any racket or string combination. Last summer when I tried this setup for the first time I literally started laughing because I couldn't believe the difference. It really made it a lot easier to play my heavy slice game. With this racket string combo and I can create great drop shots and a particularly dangerous slice forehand(no floating and a lot of pace for slice).
For me - TF320 VO2, fairly heavy hitter, strung the spiky @54 - SS had good control and spin, but poor power and terrible comfort. Anything outside of the sweetspot was like hitting a 2x4. A 2x4 with a cheese grater attached. For spin, there are many options out there that give you as much, for the same or better price, that are not awful like SS.
Of all the strings I have tried, it was my second least favorite (better than only the TF red code that I had at too high of a tension).
mtommer
Hall of Fame
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TennisandMusic
Guest
Well I ended up giving the black magic more time as I didn't want to cut it out after a few minutes of play time.
I ended up being fairly impressed and am considering making it my regular string, as it's just so economical. The other ones I am looking at are basically twice the cost per reel, and I don't think they have anywhere near twice the performance...
At this point I'd have to say black magic is the best "cheap" string I've ever tried.
I ended up being fairly impressed and am considering making it my regular string, as it's just so economical. The other ones I am looking at are basically twice the cost per reel, and I don't think they have anywhere near twice the performance...
At this point I'd have to say black magic is the best "cheap" string I've ever tried.
Dgpsx7
Professional
good, its off my list. One less thing to worry about. I just bought a PB10 mid and it has some Kirschbaum competition on it. This string is nice but I have not found any string that I have liked more than MSV Hex 1.10. The only string I am still curious about is Pro Line II. I will probably buy a pack and put it on my KPS88 eventually.
stanfordtennis alum
Hall of Fame
have to agree... black magic is probably the best price/performance poly on the market right now.. good stuff
I like the PL2 quite a bit. I haven't tried a full job with it, but I would put it in the SPPP/CB class of "like it a lot, not ready to get married to it" class of polys.
Black Magic is OK for me - after the break in period it was really nice, but then I sawed through the crosses before the string went dead. Pre-break in (say 30 mins), I did not like it at all. I'm still undecided on that one overall. Compared to BA and PL2, I would say it is softer, and equal in comfort after the break in period.
For the Genesis, I actually preferred the SpinX over the Black Magic. It's amazingly comfortable and powerful for a poly. For me the Genesis SpinX is shooting way up the charts. My SpinX/Global (or Gaucho) gut mix is making me really happy right now. If comfort's your thing, I would go with the SpinX over the BM. Side note: the SpinX looks remarkably like the SP Hyperion, but I haven't had a chance to do a direct comparison yet, though it's on The List.
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TennisandMusic
Guest
Well I would pick PL2 I think. But it's pretty much twice the cost for a reel. Almost anyway.
Fedace
Banned
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TennisandMusic
Guest
Thanks, Is Black magic better than Black code ?? that is not a pun.
Actually those are the two I am directly comparing right now.
Black code has more power but a little less inherent spin. It seems to hit a slightly heavier ball than Black Magic, as I felt I was hitting some BIG shots with the Black Code, confirmed by my hitting partner.
Black Magic has more spin potential it seems, with more shots really kicking up hard off the court. It also produces a slightly slower ball speed, and these two combined make the Black Magic easier to hit out on with full power and keep the ball well in. I hit one with this string yesterday that literally bounced up to about 7 feet high, maybe the highest kicking groundstroke I've ever hit.
Feel wise, Black Code seems softer to me. I get more of a feeling of impact with the Black Magic. It gives a better feeling of "bite." This also makes it a little harsher to hit with, but it's not too bad. I am not experiencing any pain or soreness afterwards from either of them, but I am using the PST GT which is also a pretty comfortable racquet so YMMV.
I think in the end, Black Code seems more geared towards an attacking game with flatter shots, and Black Magic could be for guys that like to play it a little more safe. Both seem to perform very well and I can see players picking either one of them for different reasons. I am down to three strings in the running for a reel, these two and the Gamma Zo Twist. I just need to give the code and magic some more time to see how well they last.
Fedace we should get together and hit sometime. We could compare string notes. I'm actually sitting in an office in La Jolla right now, and can play out here during lunch, or just about anywhere in SD after hours.
Power Player
Bionic Poster
good thread. I am trying out different strings for my YT Radical Pro. I really loved a hybrid in it, but they break way too fast for me. I went full Black Magic, and it is good at 54#s, but lacking in power. The BM really mutes the feel of the racquet almost too much. I don't get a cracking groundstroke that I got with the hybrids as consistently. the break in period for the BM made me think I strung too tightly, which was unique, since I used BM in an APDC and it was fine..once it broke in though, it was better.
The Proline II intrigues me. Is the 16 gauge much more durable then the 17? I see the 17 is cheaper, is the 16 worth it? I like soft polys with some power, and durability. I also prefer tension maintenance that is consistent. In the Radical, the Black Magic does not perform as well as with a tweener, so I am searching for more options.
I am thinking of the Big Ace Micro also, but I hated Big Ace. I don't want to have to string my polys that tight, and the BA was awful at 56#s.
The Proline II intrigues me. Is the 16 gauge much more durable then the 17? I see the 17 is cheaper, is the 16 worth it? I like soft polys with some power, and durability. I also prefer tension maintenance that is consistent. In the Radical, the Black Magic does not perform as well as with a tweener, so I am searching for more options.
I am thinking of the Big Ace Micro also, but I hated Big Ace. I don't want to have to string my polys that tight, and the BA was awful at 56#s.
