Best composite all time player?

Wondertoy

Wondertoy

Professional
Sampras serve
Federer forehand
Gasquet backhand
McEnroe half volleys
Edberg volleys
Pancho Gonzales overhead smash
Agassi's return of serve
Nadal's competitive mind
Borg's concentration
Chang's speed

Who could beat this guy? This would be the specialist way to train an upcoming junior.
 
T

TheMagicianOfPrecision

Guest
Wondertoy said:
Sampras serve
Federer forehand
Gasquet backhand
McEnroe half volleys
Edberg volleys
Pancho Gonzales overhead smash
Agassi's return of serve
Nadal's competitive mind
Borg's concentration
Chang's speed

Who could beat this guy? This would be the specialist way to train an upcoming junior.
Click to expand...

Gasquet backhand????:shock::shock: are u joking?? Try Nalbandian instead.
I respect Panchos achievments but i would pick Pistol Pete instead, and Mcenroes half-volley, now we are beginning to get a decent "creation" that would beat all robots in the world:)
 
B

baseliner

Professional
I'll take Pancho's serve over Sampras (and so will anyone who ever saw Pancho); Kenny Rosewall's backhand, Jim Courier's inside out forehand and McEnroe's volley. Yes, Magician, McEnroe volleyed better than Edberg.
 
T

TheMagicianOfPrecision

Guest
baseliner said:
I'll take Pancho's serve over Sampras (and so will anyone who ever saw Pancho); Kenny Rosewall's backhand, Jim Courier's inside out forehand and McEnroe's volley. Yes, Magician, McEnroe volleyed better than Edberg.
Click to expand...
No, Edberg had better volleys than Mcenroe
 
sanchino

sanchino

Semi-Pro
serve-1st Sampras 2nd Newcombe
forehand- Federer, Vilas had a great topspion left handed, Nadal too
backhand- Agassi (two handed)
backhand- Lendl (one handed)
half volleys- McEnroe, Federer close 2nd
volleys- Edberg or McEnroe, I'd take McEnroe's
overhead smash- Connors
return of serve- Connors or Agassi, I'd take Connors
competitive mind- Connors (determination)
mental toughness/concentration- Borg
speed/movement- Borg
strategy- Ashe
clutchness on big points- Borg
 
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F

Fedfan1234

Rookie
Sampras serve
Federer forehand
Gasquet backhand
McEnroe half volleys
Edberg volleys
Pancho Gonzales overhead smash
Agassi's return of serve
Nadal's competitive mind
Borg's concentration
Chang's speed

Who could beat this guy? This would be the specialist way to train an upcoming junior.
Click to expand...
Some names are just plain wrong, Chang or Gasquet should not be on this list. I am not saying my list is perfect, but certainly better than the your list.

Karlovic serve
Federer forehand
Nadal's backhand
Federer's half volleys
Sampras volleys
Sampras overhead forehand smash
Federer overhead backhand smash
Agassi's return of serve
Nadal's competitive mind
Borg's concentration
Nadal's speed
Federer's footwork
 
drive

drive

Semi-Pro
You can find tons of posts like this one if you search a bit. It seems that people never gets enough of this kind of topics...
 
T

TheMagicianOfPrecision

Guest
baseliner said:
I guess that is why Edberg had such great success at doubles.
Click to expand...
He won 3 davis cup titles playing both singles and doubles and won several GS-doubles-titles, what the **** are u talking about?
 
S

SoCal10s

Hall of Fame
Rosoe Tanner-1st serve
Pete Sampras-2nd serve
Pancho Segura- forehand
Nalbandian- 2 hand backhand
Ken Rosewall-backhand slice
McEnroe -half volleys
McEnroe -touch volleys
Cash or Rafter put away volley
Pancho Gonzales- overhead
Agassi -return of serve
Conners or Bobby Riggs-competitiveness
Borg's -legs
Chang's- foot speed
Pancho Segura-strategy
Arthur Ashe-coolness on the court
 
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Blinkism

Blinkism

Legend
TheMagicianOfPrecision said:
He won 3 davis cup titles playing both singles and doubles and won several GS-doubles-titles, what the **** are u talking about?
Click to expand...

Don't let the Edberg haters get to you TMOP

Edberg has the most textbook-perfect volley I've ever seen (mind you, I've not seen more than a few clips of Mcenroe).
 
Shaolin

Shaolin

G.O.A.T.
Serve: Karlovic, Ivanesevic, Roddick or Sampras
Forehand: Federer
Backhand: Agassi
Net: Rafter or Edberg
Footwork: Federer
Raw speed: Nadal
 
J

jack the lad

Banned
1st serve: roddick
2nd serve: sampras
forehand: gonzalez
Backhand: safin
speed & footwork: nadal
fitness: hewitt
will to win: hewitt
return of serve: nalbandian
overhead: anyone, but probably roddick.
 
Wondertoy

Wondertoy

Professional
SuperDuy said:
I think roddick for first serve cmon guys, on pressure moments he brings an ace down the T.
Click to expand...

No way. Hi sserve is fast but has no movement, hind of like a faseball pitcher with no movement. Hitters can hit those fastballs. That's why it's hard for Roddick to ace Federer. With Pistol Pete, you couldn't tell where he was serving. Fast does not equal best. Sampras> Karlovic> Tanner> Roddick.
 
B

bruce38

Banned
Wondertoy said:
Sampras serve
Federer forehand
Gasquet backhand
McEnroe half volleys
Edberg volleys
Pancho Gonzales overhead smash
Agassi's return of serve
Nadal's competitive mind
Borg's concentration
Chang's speed

Who could beat this guy? This would be the specialist way to train an upcoming junior.
Click to expand...

Prime Fed could beat this guy.
 
Iron Man

Iron Man

Rookie
Serve karlovic , Becker
2nd serve Federer
Federer forehand
backhand del potro , Nadal
Federer half volleys
Mcenroe volleys
sampras overhead smash
Agassi's return of serve
Nadal , Federer , Borg competitive mind
Nadal's concentration
Federer's speed
 
drwood

drwood

Professional
1st serve = Sampras
2nd serve = Sampras
Stationary FH = Federer
Running FH = Sampras
Stationary BH = Agassi
Running BH = Safin
Baseline half-volley = Federer
Service line half-volley = McEnroe
FH volley = McEnroe
BH volley = Edberg
FH overhead = Sampras
BH overhead = Sampras
FH return of serve = Agassi
BH return of serve = Agassi
Mental focus and determination = Nadal
Fitness = Federer, Lendl or Nadal
Speed = Nadal or Chang
 
JeMar

JeMar

Legend
I just wanted to chime in and say that Edberg's backhand volley was better than McEnroe's, and his forehand volley was more technically proficient than Mac's. John McEnroe, however, was a genius at improvising at the net. I'd say it's a wash.
 
ShooterMcMarco

ShooterMcMarco

Hall of Fame
drwood said:
1st serve = Sampras
2nd serve = Sampras
Stationary FH = Federer
Running FH = Sampras
Stationary BH = Agassi
Running BH = Safin
Baseline half-volley = Federer
Service line half-volley = McEnroe
FH volley = McEnroe
BH volley = Edberg
FH overhead = Sampras
BH overhead = Sampras
FH return of serve = Agassi
BH return of serve = Agassi
Mental focus and determination = Nadal
Fitness = Federer, Lendl or Nadal
Speed = Nadal or Chang
Tweener = Federer
Click to expand...

I made one addition to your comprehensive list.
 
ubermeyer

ubermeyer

Hall of Fame
Wondertoy said:
Sampras serve
Federer forehand
Gasquet backhand
McEnroe half volleys
Edberg volleys
Pancho Gonzales overhead smash
Agassi's return of serve
Nadal's competitive mind
Borg's concentration
Chang's speed

Who could beat this guy? This would be the specialist way to train an upcoming junior.
Click to expand...

A bunch of people could: like this guy:

Karlovic 1st Serve
Isner 2nd serve
Gonzalez Forehand
McEnroe half volleys
Rafter volleys
Agassi return
Roddick smash
Monfils Speed
Nadal's concentration
Federer's hunger to win slams / consistency in slams
Murray's tactical mind
 
L

lawrence

Hall of Fame
Southpaw
Flat Serve: Karlovic
Forehand: Fed
Backhand: Agassi
Slice backhand: Fed
Volley: Mac
Backhand Volley: Edberg
Overhead: Sampras
Return of Serve: Agassi
Lob: Hewitt
Mental: Nadal
Top speed: Borg
Acceleration: Chang
Footwork: Fed
Consistency: Nadal
Fitness: Hewitt
Strategy: Fed
Tweener: Fed lol

all players in their primes of course

now who could beat this guy?
 
D

downdaline

Professional
JeMar said:
I just wanted to chime in and say that Edberg's backhand volley was better than McEnroe's, and his forehand volley was more technically proficient than Mac's. John McEnroe, however, was a genius at improvising at the net. I'd say it's a wash.
Click to expand...

^^^ I've watched both of them play and I totally agree with this. Edberg was textbook. McEnroe was out-of-the-box.
 
darthpwner

darthpwner

Banned
baseliner said:
I'll take Pancho's serve over Sampras (and so will anyone who ever saw Pancho); Kenny Rosewall's backhand, Jim Courier's inside out forehand and McEnroe's volley. Yes, Magician, McEnroe volleyed better than Edberg.
Click to expand...

McEnroe's s&v game was actually quite serve oriented. Edberg did not have McEnroe's serve, so he was more volley oriented. When Edberg was 17 he got injured in his shoulder and could no longer serve bombs. If he did have a big serve, then his volleys would have declined
 
darthpwner

darthpwner

Banned
baseliner said:
I'll take Pancho's serve over Sampras (and so will anyone who ever saw Pancho); Kenny Rosewall's backhand, Jim Courier's inside out forehand and McEnroe's volley. Yes, Magician, McEnroe volleyed better than Edberg.
Click to expand...

downdaline said:
^^^ I've watched both of them play and I totally agree with this. Edberg was textbook. McEnroe was out-of-the-box.
Click to expand...

I think McEnroes forehand volley was better than Edbergs, and Edbergs backhand volley was better than Edberg. Edberg's Eastern grip made it difficult for him to hit DTL on forehand volleys. McEnroe's forehand volley could be placed anywhere. Edberg's backhand volley was a work of art though.
 
J

jrepac

Hall of Fame
Mac v. Edberg

If I had to pick a volleyer to defend my life, it would be Mac....
Edberg is excellent, but Mac was magic, particularly on the half volley against folks like Borg, Connors, Lendl. I think the comment re: improvisation is spot on.

Return of Serve- Might lean towards Jimbo; Andre hits it harder but Jimmy tended to get back more serves that would typically be un-returnable

Forehand -- Lendl perhaps being overlooked here? One of the most dangerous and consistent of all time.....either him or Fed, I think...Del Potro is maybe 3rd perhaps?

Backhand--Andre/Nadal/Connors

First Serve---Tanner or Roddick

Volley---Mac or Edberg followed by Rafter or Cash

Approach shots anyone? --- Connors hit some of the best...Mac too...

2nd Serve---Pete Sampras

Footspeed - Borg

Overhead-- Pete/Jimmy

Lobs? --- Lendl/Connors

Mental game...coolness to Fed or Borg (never saw much of Ashe, so can't say)

Determination/grit.....Connors or Nadal..

oh what fun!
 
Cesc Fabregas

Cesc Fabregas

Legend
jrepac said:
If I had to pick a volleyer to defend my life, it would be Mac....
Edberg is excellent, but Mac was magic, particularly on the half volley against folks like Borg, Connors, Lendl. I think the comment re: improvisation is spot on.

Return of Serve- Might lean towards Jimbo; Andre hits it harder but Jimmy tended to get back more serves that would typically be un-returnable
Click to expand...

I'll go for Agassi on this one, he played in an era with Sampras, Goran, Becker, Krajicek, Stich etc

Forehand -- Lendl perhaps being overlooked here? One of the most dangerous and consistent of all time.....either him or Fed, I think...Del Potro is maybe 3rd perhaps?
Click to expand...

Federer, Lendl, Sampras, Agassi and Courier are the best I have seen, and Nadal's on clay.

Backhand--Andre/Nadal/Connors
Click to expand...

Agassi and Connors, I agree.

First Serve---Tanner or Roddick
Click to expand...

No. Sampras or Goran here.

Volley---Mac or Edberg followed by Rafter or Cash
Click to expand...

Can't argue here.


Approach shots anyone? --- Connors hit some of the best...Mac too...
Click to expand...

I'll go with Sampras here, he had a great serve and a huge forehand to come in on.

2nd Serve---Pete Sampras
Click to expand...

Agreed.

Footspeed - Borg
Click to expand...

Yep. Throw in Nadal and Chang into the next aswell.

Overhead-- Pete/Jimmy
Click to expand...

Sampras is king here.

Lobs? --- Lendl/Connors
Click to expand...

Agassi and Hewitt.

Mental game...coolness to Fed or Borg (never saw much of Ashe, so can't say)
Click to expand...

Borg and Sampras

Determination/grit.....Connors or Nadal..
Click to expand...

Can't argue here.
Click to expand...
 
T

TheMagicianOfPrecision

Guest
drwood said:
1st serve = Sampras
2nd serve = Sampras
Stationary FH = Federer
Running FH = Sampras
Stationary BH = Agassi
Running BH = Safin
Baseline half-volley = Federer
Service line half-volley = McEnroe
FH volley = McEnroe
BH volley = Edberg
FH overhead = Sampras
BH overhead = Sampras
FH return of serve = Agassi
BH return of serve = Agassi
Mental focus and determination = Nadal
Fitness = Federer, Lendl or Nadal
Speed = Nadal or Chang
Click to expand...

BH volley-Edberg, THANK YOU.
 
drwood

drwood

Professional
TheMagicianOfPrecision said:
BH volley-Edberg, THANK YOU.
Click to expand...

No prob, Magician :)

Unrelated question; in your prime, could you have beaten 2002 Serena Williams? (I'm being serious)

I know you were like 900 in the world at one point, right? Do you think at that point a match against prime Serena would have been competitive?
 
Shaolin

Shaolin

G.O.A.T.
lawrence said:
Southpaw
Flat Serve: Karlovic
Forehand: Fed
Backhand: Agassi
Slice backhand: Fed
Volley: Mac
Backhand Volley: Edberg
Overhead: Sampras
Return of Serve: Agassi
Lob: Hewitt
Mental: Nadal
Top speed: Borg
Acceleration: Chang
Footwork: Fed
Consistency: Nadal
Fitness: Hewitt
Strategy: Fed
Tweener: Fed lol

all players in their primes of course

now who could beat this guy?
Click to expand...



This has to beat all of them.. Even my composite. Lefty Karlovic serve+Fed FH, Agassi BH=no possibility of breaking, EVER.
 
1

1970CRBase

Guest
Wondertoy said:
Sampras serve
Federer forehand
Gasquet backhand
McEnroe half volleys
Edberg volleys
Pancho Gonzales overhead smash
Agassi's return of serve
Nadal's competitive mind
Borg's concentration
Chang's speed

Who could beat this guy? This would be the specialist way to train an upcoming junior.
Click to expand...

If you had one advantage, you wouldn't have another one.
 
Blinkism

Blinkism

Legend
Backhand overhead: Nadal

I think the shot might be called a "High Backhand Volley", though. Either way, I nominate Nadal for this. I've never seen someone so consistently hit this shot and WANT to hit this shot. It seems like Nadal sets himself up for this shot when he can. He clearly practices it alot.

His forehand overhead smash is nothing to sneeze at, either. Although, it's not the best of all time, most likely.

EDIT: Forgot to mention that Leander Paes is also excellent at executing the backhand overhead, as are many doubles players.
 
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pc1

pc1

G.O.A.T.
Decided to have fun and break it down to decades from 1930 on.

1930's
Serve-Ellsworth Vines, John Doeg
Backhand-Don Budge, Nusslein
Forehand-Fred Perry, Nusslein
Volley-Vines, Borotra
Return of Serve-Budge
Speed and Footwork-Perry
Overhead-Vines
1940's
Serve-Jack Kramer
Backhand-Frank Kovacs or Don Budge
Forehand-Pancho Segura
Volley-Kramer, Ted Schoeder
Return of serve-Bobby Riggs, Frank Kovacs or Budge
Speed and Footwork-Segura or Riggs
Overhead-Kramer
1950's
Serve-Pancho Gonzalez, Lew Hoad
Backhand-Ken Rosewall, Kovacs
Forehand-Pancho Segura
Volley-Frank Sedgman
Return of Serve-Ken Rosewall, also Kovacs, Segura
Speed and Footwork-Ken Rosewall
Overhead-Kramer, Gonzalez or Lew Hoad
1960's
Serve-Gonzalez or John Newcombe
Backhand-Ken Rosewall or Rod Laver with a nod to Rosewall, also Arthur Ashe
Forehand-Rod Laver, Gimeno, Tom Okker or Newcombe
Volley-Ken Rosewall, Rod Laver, Tony Roche
Return of Serve-Rosewall, Laver
Speed and Footwork-Rosewall, Laver, Roy Emerson, Tom Okker
Overhead-John Newcombe
1970's
Serve-Newcombe, Roscoe Tanner, Arthur Ashe, Stan Smith, Borg
Backhand-Connors, Rosewall, Vilas, Laver, Bjorn Borg, Arthur Ashe-slight nod to Connors
Forehand-Clearly Bjorn Borg. Others-John Newcombe, Ilie Nastase, Tom Okker.
Volley-Newcombe, Roche, McEnroe, Rosewall, Brian Gottfried (the man who was rumored to practice tennis on his wedding day.)
Return of Serve-Borg, Connors, Rosewall, Laver
Speed and Footwork-Borg first, also Nastase, Okker and Gerulaitis. Connors excellent also.
Overhead-Dick Stockton
1980's
Serve-Boris Becker, Ivan Lendl, John McEnroe, Bjorn Borg
Backhand-Borg, Edberg, Connors, Lendl, McEnroe, Agassi, Wilander, Miloslav Mecir
Forehand-Lendl, Borg
Volley-McEnroe and Edberg.
Return of Serve-Connors, Agassi, Lendl, Edberg, McEnroe, Borg, Mecir
Speed and Footwork-Borg, Wilander, Lendl, Gerulaitis, Wilander, Miloslav Mecir
Overhead-Yannick Noah-He always put the ball in the stands, it seemed.
1990's
Serve-Pete Sampras, Goran Ivanisevic, Becker, Edberg
Backhand-Edberg, Agassi, Chang
Forehand-Agassi, Bruguera, Jim Courier, Pete Sampras, Chang
Volley-Edberg, Sampras, Rafter
Return of Serve-Agassi, Chang. Saw a stat on Tennisweek that Chang actually broke serve by percentage more than Agassi.
Speed and Footwork-Chang, Sampras,
Overhead-Sampras
2000's
Serve-Sampras, Roddick, Kuerten (underrated serve)
Backhand-Kuerten, Nadal, Djokovic, Safin, Nalbanian (Nalbanian's backhand when he is on his game is incredible.)
Forehand-Federer, Nadal
Volley-Rafter, Henman, old Sampras
Return of Serve-Agassi, Nadal, Coria, Federer, Murray, Hewitt
Speed and Footwork-Nadal, Federer, Djokovic, Murray, Hewitt
Overhead-??? Everyone seems very good.
 
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U

urban

Legend
Great list pc 1. Nice to have Kovacs put in. I read about him in Tilden's book. Must have been a real crowd pleaser. Some more discutable inclusions are: For the 30s, Aussie Vivian McGrath should have had a deadly double hander on the backhand. In the 40s, a fellow named Geoff Brown had a ferocious serve. For the 50s resp. 60s, one could include Budge Patty for the backhand volley, and Neale Fraser for the serve. Completely agree about Noah's overhead. Vilas had a great bh overhead (i think we talked about it a few weeks ago).
 
pc1

pc1

G.O.A.T.
urban said:
Great list pc 1. Nice to have Kovacs put in. I read about him in Tilden's book. Must have been a real crowd pleaser. Some more discutable inclusions are: For the 30s, Aussie Vivian McGrath should have had a deadly double hander on the backhand. In the 40s, a fellow named Geoff Brown had a ferocious serve. For the 50s resp. 60s, one could include Budge Patty for the backhand volley, and Neale Fraser for the serve. Completely agree about Noah's overhead. Vilas had a great bh overhead (i think we talked about it a few weeks ago).
Click to expand...

Vilas' bh overhead was amazing. The man had so much wrist strength.
 
S

sh@de

Hall of Fame
Serve - Karlovic, for both 1st and second
Forehand - Federer
Backhand - Nalbandian
Volleys - Edberg
Half volleys - McEnroe
Return - Agassi
Mental game - Nadal
Footspeed - Nadal
Footwork - Federer
 
B

Bernie Mac

New User
I reckon Kohlshrieber has a nice one handed backhand. Its got the pace and can handle the high bounce spin by countering with his own spin on the ball
 
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