Forehand Video

gameboy · Jan 21, 2011

I know I am just wasting my time, but here it goes...

MasturB said:
The best baseball coaches were never really the best athletes, they had to study the game harder to stay afloat and learn other things instead of relying on raw ability.

That is one way to view it. The other would be that best baseball players rarely become managers becaues they make so much money during their career that there is no motivation. If you ever heard guys like Mattingly, Molitor, or Cal Ripken Jr talk about hitting, (hell - nobody knew the science of hitting better than Ted Williams - period!) you would know that those guys know the game as well as anyone. Nobody gets to be that good without having a great understanding of how things work.

MasturB said:
My goal isn't really to play outstanding, it's actually to be a fine tennis instructor. However, I'm using myself almost like a guinea pig. If I can coach myself and teach myself the game and be successful, then I can definitely teach and coach someone else. I don't record myself that often, but I can feel when I'm doing something wrong on the court without being able to watch myself. When I watch others, I can instantly notice what they're doing wrong and correct them.

If that is your goal, then your strong resistance to any sort of criticism is even more galling. How are you going give critique to other's game if you cannot take any criticism yourself? Seriously, I really don't think you possess kind of patience required to be a teacher. Just because you (think) know something does not mean that you can teach it. You must be able to empathize and earn trust, which is sorely lacking in your attitude.

MasturB said:
I'm not here to show off, so you can go find someone else who's infatuated with themselves. Just because I disagree with some of the comments doesn't mean I don't accept them, it just means I disagree. Sorry if I'm hurting your feelings.

Your actions say otherwise.

MasturB · Jan 21, 2011

Ajtat411 said:
My bad, I just assumed the old guy at the end of the video was your coach. It looked like he was about to say something to you at the end. Either that or he was trying to steal a hit from your ball machine. haha

Ha. That's one of the residents that live at the club I work at. We have a fair trade. He helps instruct me on perfecting my yoga technique and in exchange I give him free tennis lessons.

DavaiMarat · Jan 21, 2011

MasturB said:
Ha. That's one of the residents that live at the club I work at. We have a fair trade. He helps instruct me on perfecting my yoga technique and in exchange I give him free tennis lessons.

Yoga lessons! That's awesome. I'll have to ask that nice blonde who does the Tuesday class if she'd be interested in the same deal.....hmmmmm my fiancé might not be too happy with it. lol!

MasturB · Jan 21, 2011

DavaiMarat said:
Yoga lessons! That's awesome. I'll have to ask that nice blonde who does the Tuesday class if she'd be interested in the same deal.....hmmmmm my fiancé might not be too happy with it. lol!

Ha. Well I've been practicing Yoga since 2006, before I started playing tennis. However I've been implementing it more with my workouts as I feel flexibility is huge in tennis. Easier to generate power with flexibility than it is muscle.

I've asked him for advice since he's been teaching yoga forever. Hard to tell what I'm doing wrong when I can't watch myself do it. Not a passionate enough yogi to record myself like tennis, so him standing there and instructing me to angle myself more is perfect.

Recon · Jan 21, 2011

SOUNDS LIKE A BUNCH OF HATERS!!! lol. The guy has a good forehand, disproved all you guys comments, and even tricky came in and backed him up. Looks like some of you guys can't handle it...SAD. Good forehand bro, you seem to be highly critical of yourself, and this intern will lead you to develop sick technique, I critique myself HARD, never being satisfied with a stroke is the ultimate way to keep tweaking it to better it. I say good on you, and all these posers hating on your footwork, NO ONE goes 100% on footwork against a ball machine, this is boring. Man I don't even go 100% in footwork when hitting neither do the pro's its just not...real, only in matches when somethings on the line, and 90% of these posters on the board know it to be true within themselves as well. Everyone decently good on here is often attacked, same thing with another poster gee willikers batman, a talented lefty, and countless other accounts. Don't even pay attention to these sour pusses, they linger on these boards more then they linger on the courts, waiting to tear someone down from potentially raising their level over a heralded 4.0!!! if your a 4.0 in tennis, on tw your a god..its almost too sad to see.

cork_screw · Jan 22, 2011

Holy sh*it where do you live? In brooklyn we would call that $3,500 /mo apts. Those windows are nice.

Wait, what about your strokes?

enishi1357 · Jan 22, 2011

Critique is always welcome. If anything it made me further improve myself.
I would say really focus on your footwork and be relax on your stroke. Also i heard federer does windshield wiper somewhere so im sure if u want to hit like him u gotta follow that path.

arche3 · Jan 22, 2011

good strokes. good player. how good I can't tell because your being fed balls. But for 4 years a very developed forehand when your setup and stationary. I would not change anything because some TT posters who can barely hit a ball over the net 3 times in a row told you to. Your mechanics will evolve as you play more and figure out what works for you.

Jonny S&V · Jan 22, 2011

Recon said:
SOUNDS LIKE A BUNCH OF HATERS!!! lol. The guy has a good forehand, disproved all you guys comments, and even tricky came in and backed him up. Looks like some of you guys can't handle it...SAD. Good forehand bro, you seem to be highly critical of yourself, and this intern will lead you to develop sick technique, I critique myself HARD, never being satisfied with a stroke is the ultimate way to keep tweaking it to better it. I say good on you, and all these posers hating on your footwork, NO ONE goes 100% on footwork against a ball machine, this is boring. Man I don't even go 100% in footwork when hitting neither do the pro's its just not...real, only in matches when somethings on the line, and 90% of these posters on the board know it to be true within themselves as well. Everyone decently good on here is often attacked, same thing with another poster gee willikers batman, a talented lefty, and countless other accounts. Don't even pay attention to these sour pusses, they linger on these boards more then they linger on the courts, waiting to tear someone down from potentially raising their level over a heralded 4.0!!! if your a 4.0 in tennis, on tw your a god..its almost too sad to see.

Power Player · Jan 22, 2011

Everything looks nice, but you should be able to step into those strokes every time since they are coming from a ball machine. I saw your rebuttals and Fed links..etc, but since you are not Fed, there is no reason you can't work on stepping into the court on all these shots.

You can't post about strokes and then say you weren't focusing on your footwork...you should always focus on you footwork, which is what I think J S&V was trying to say, and I think he is giving good advice. It takes forever to train yourself to get your feet right, and a lot of people never do...so whenever you hit, just make yourself do it.

Also, we can't really see the ball path or anything, so it is tough to see much outside of your stroke and feet. But good vid regardless. I am not a "hater".

Those courts look pretty sweet also.

Recon · Jan 22, 2011

Jonny S&V said:

Simpler--

- The guy has a good forehand, the critiques you all have imposed on him has been disproved with fact, backed by a very informative poster here known as tricky.

- Anyone who post a video here and who doesn't suck is usually attacked. Hes being attacked in this thread.

- Being a 4.0 in tennis is horrible. Anyone out of the United States doesn't even worry about NTRP, its a failed system only employed here in the states to make tennis players feel better about themselves. In other countries its either you suck, your good, or your pro. Many players I have hit with that are not from the U.S. have often commented on the system placed here and its really holding back some players. Players feel the need to improve one shot to move up a half level instead of focusing on overall improvement to become a better tennis player in general. (This was just my opinion

- If anyone of you honestly can tell me you move your feet, or lean forward on every stroke while hitting/ballmachine like it was matchpoint in the US.OPEN everytime you play, then you are insane. I rather see him hit good forehands with okay footwork, and TECHNICALLY correct loading/unloading phase then see him move his feet/leaning in and hitting bad forehands.

- The only "critique" that is "valid", is you guys wants him to lean in on every forehand but this is not realistic in real match play, and you are able to get a lot more power by loading the back foot and exploding up through the ball, leaning in on every stroke is a very classical approach and really is only concerned on closed stance or "neutral stance" strokes.

Clear enough for you?
---------
Heres a critique, as others have mentioned you do have a hitch in the racquet drop, this should be timed better and you should feel it being one fluid motion, this will have an effortless feel if done correctly. Also on some forehands like at :56 you don't turn over your arm causing it to come across like a pan, result being the ball hit the net. This is a matter of tension, your arm should be more relaxed and it will come over the ball excellently. I also notice you don't have a consistent elbow location and by in that I mean sometimes you hit with your elbow tucked, and others straight arm. This is a matter of body placement, you need to space yourself correctly and keeping that left arm across the body consistently will help you with this tremendously.

pyrokid · Jan 22, 2011

Recon said:
Simpler--

- The guy has a good forehand, the critiques you all have imposed on him has been disproved with fact, backed by a very informative poster here known as tricky.

- Anyone who post a video here and who doesn't suck is usually attacked. Hes being attacked in this thread.

- Being a 4.0 in tennis is horrible. Anyone out of the United States doesn't even worry about NTRP, its a failed system only employed here in the states to make tennis players feel better about themselves. In other countries its either you suck, your good, or your pro. Many players I have hit with that are not from the U.S. have often commented on the system placed here and its really holding back some players. Players feel the need to improve one shot to move up a half level instead of focusing on overall improvement to become a better tennis player in general. (This was just my opinion

- If anyone of you honestly can tell me you move your feet, or lean forward on every stroke while hitting/ballmachine like it was matchpoint in the US.OPEN everytime you play, then you are insane. I rather see him hit good forehands with okay footwork, and TECHNICALLY correct loading/unloading phase then see him move his feet/leaning in and hitting bad forehands.

- The only "critique" that is "valid", is you guys wants him to lean in on every forehand but this is not realistic in real match play, and you are able to get a lot more power by loading the back foot and exploding up through the ball, leaning in on every stroke is a very classical approach and really is only concerned on closed stance or "neutral stance" strokes.

Clear enough for you?
---------
Heres a critique, as others have mentioned you do have a hitch in the racquet drop, this should be timed better and you should feel it being one fluid motion, this will have an effortless feel if done correctly. Also on some forehands like at :56 you don't turn over your arm causing it to come across like a pan, result being the ball hit the net. This is a matter of tension, your arm should be more relaxed and it will come over the ball excellently. I also notice you don't have a consistent elbow location and by in that I mean sometimes you hit with your elbow tucked, and others straight arm. This is a matter of body placement, you need to space yourself correctly and keeping that left arm across the body consistently will help you with this tremendously.

Bolded is just plain untrue.

Underlined contradicts bold underlined.

The reason people are mad is because he asked for criticism and then told everyone they were wrong. (Not gonna get into whether what he said was right or not) it had nothing to do with him being a good player.

dozu · Jan 22, 2011

JackB1 said:
This is easy. Just swing the human racquet and not the graphite one!

you are correct sir.... if the OP focus more on the human racket, his weight transfer will be better.

Recon · Jan 22, 2011

pyrokid said:
Bolded is just plain untrue.

Underlined contradicts bold underlined.

The reason people are mad is because he asked for criticism and then told everyone they were wrong. (Not gonna get into whether what he said was right or not) it had nothing to do with him being a good player.

This is not untrue, this is the modern game, and how does having a hitch in the racquet drop contradict loading with your back leg and exploding upwards?? You cannot get away with leaning backwards on a closed stance, you can however transfer your weight without going forward on more open stance forehands by loading the back leg and unloading using counter weighting, and angular momentum instead of linear momentum.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JYYc-bn5vz4

Where as I feel he could have better explained and demonstrated this philosophy, I do not think you are a dumb person or blind, This is the modern game. Leaning forward on every forehand is outdated, and not realistic with the improved RPM's on topspin shots pushing players back.

Jonny S&V · Jan 22, 2011

Recon said:
Simpler--

- The guy has a good forehand, the critiques you all have imposed on him has been disproved with fact, backed by a very informative poster here known as tricky.

- Anyone who post a video here and who doesn't suck is usually attacked. Hes being attacked in this thread.

- Being a 4.0 in tennis is horrible. Anyone out of the United States doesn't even worry about NTRP, its a failed system only employed here in the states to make tennis players feel better about themselves. In other countries its either you suck, your good, or your pro. Many players I have hit with that are not from the U.S. have often commented on the system placed here and its really holding back some players. Players feel the need to improve one shot to move up a half level instead of focusing on overall improvement to become a better tennis player in general. (This was just my opinion

- If anyone of you honestly can tell me you move your feet, or lean forward on every stroke while hitting/ballmachine like it was matchpoint in the US.OPEN everytime you play, then you are insane. I rather see him hit good forehands with okay footwork, and TECHNICALLY correct loading/unloading phase then see him move his feet/leaning in and hitting bad forehands.

- The only "critique" that is "valid", is you guys wants him to lean in on every forehand but this is not realistic in real match play, and you are able to get a lot more power by loading the back foot and exploding up through the ball, leaning in on every stroke is a very classical approach and really is only concerned on closed stance or "neutral stance" strokes.

Clear enough for you?

Your sarcasm meter is broken, might want to get that fixed.

I've been accused of being un-accepting of other people's critiques in the past, but they've been over little things (such as the "human racquet" concept, which I still don't buy), but the OP is arguing against the pretty solid fact that perfect footwork in practice will make good/passable footwork in matches. If he's going to post a video of his forehand, he should be to the point that he doesn't need to think about the changes that he's made to his forehand, especially to the point that it interferes with footwork.

Jonny S&V · Jan 22, 2011

Recon said:
Where as I feel he could have better explained and demonstrated this philosophy, I do not think you are a dumb person or blind, This is the modern game. Leaning forward on every forehand is outdated, and not realistic with the improved RPM's on topspin shots pushing players back.

But the fact is, if you're hitting against a ball-machine, you should be able to keep your weight neutral or moving forward on every shot. I don't know your level, but I know for a fact that I play "modern" tennis (except I can actually volley), and what you are saying is getting close to the truth, but not completely true.

maggmaster · Jan 22, 2011

It is important to note that no one came on here and told him that he needed to rework his forehand from the ground up. Some people said he should look into moving more weight into the shot. All of the criticism was respectful and intelligible, and none of it sounded like an infomercial, minus the human racket garbage. That being said, nice forehand, I cannot critique it.

mtommer · Jan 22, 2011

Recon said:
- If anyone of you honestly can tell me you move your feet, or lean forward on every stroke while hitting/ballmachine like it was matchpoint in the US.OPEN everytime you play, then you are insane. I rather see him hit good forehands with okay footwork, and TECHNICALLY correct loading/unloading phase then see him move his feet/leaning in and hitting bad forehands.

First, having the weight go into the shot is not "leaning forward". It's the transition from back foot to front foot as one hits the ball. Not before one hits the ball. Not after one hits the ball. As one hits the ball.

Second, I don't care who is lazy or not lazy when they are hitting the ball. Putting up a link to a Federer video showing: "He doesn't do it." is irrelevant. It's irrelevant because what isn't put up are the videos of Roger, day in and day out, having the coaches sitting with him for six, seven, hours on court, yelling at him every time his feet are but one centimeter from where they should be. You see them chastise him because he didn't put 100% into his last shot, even though he had done so for the last 500 balls he hit. In short, if you think anyone here is "attacking" the OP due to the lack of getting the footwork right every single shot, then you've never seen the real "coaching" of a top ten ranked junior player. Roger has already proven himself now so if he wants to start out a little lazy, Roger can start out a little lazy. Until one is able to achieve such accomplishments, one gets criticized for laziness when one asks for comments.

DavaiMarat · Jan 22, 2011

MasturB said:
Obviously I wasn't really concentrating on footwork here since I knew where the ball would be landing every single time.

I programmed the ball machine to do rapid fire so I could get some quick reps and cardio.

Your idea of using the bigger muscles will not produce a relaxed shot, as that would mean I'm "muscling" the ball. A relaxed shot is when the smaller muscles work in coordination with the bigger muscles, so everything works smoothly together to where the bigger muscles don't have to work as hard.

Well I say a picture is worth a thousand words. This is a video of me hitting with my fiancé a few months ago. It's like 8am but it was the only court open lol.

http://vimeo.com/16698236

I'm only hitting about 70 percent just to keep the rallies going. We both played divII equivalent tennis, me in Canada and her in the states.
Although we have different styles you can see in the video my arm is very loose. It's like it just goes for a ride as my shoulder comes thru . My footwork mainly consists of open and semi open stances with the entirety of my weight ending on the left foot either in front or to the left in the open stance.

I know the the forehand your hitting where you spin off the back foot but I feel personally that the weight transfer into the shot isn't optimal. It was a big problem with safin actually after he hurt his left knee, he stared hitting off the back foot all the time to protect his jumpers knee.

I'm not saying the isn't a place for that type of footwork but optimally more transfer into the ball rotationally or forward would serve you better on a neutral attackable shot. (especially for us smaller guys...I'm only 5'8 )

Good luck in your tennis pursuits!

Bender · Jan 22, 2011

- When playing with a ball machine, you should usually try and optimise your shots in every way possible. This includes footwork and weight transfer. This point doesn't really apply in the OP's situation, given the programming of the ball machine.
- Obviously you can't replicate an optimal shot practiced with a ball machine for every ball in a match setting, so hitting off the back foot every once so in a while is beneficial.
- Then again, footwork can be adjusted when rallying with another person, since the ball will be far less predictable anyway.
- Therefore when practicing with a ball machine, try aim to go through the same, optimal motions again and again. It's tedious, but good tennis is a result of hard work.
- The reason why a lot of the people here are commenting on smaller issues like weight transfer, stances, etc. is because the OP's forehand is otherwise technically-sound.

MasturB · Jan 22, 2011

I'm in the process of uploading another video from a different angle that I recorded right before I recorded the one in my original post.

Was on the ball machine for 8 minutes, and just starting to toy with the shorter takeback. Doing backhands and forehands though.

MasturB · Jan 22, 2011

Ok, edited the original post and added the other video with brief paragraph description. Time to open the floodgates.

Or you can watch it here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JWqKSKclGsU

ReopeningWed · Jan 22, 2011

Lawl you don't have knees.

Does the ball machine help? I have never, ever heard of any junior players admitting to using a ball machine. The only thing I can imagine using it for is volleying, and I'd still rather have someone else help me with that.

MasturB · Jan 22, 2011

ReopeningWed said:
Lawl you don't have knees.

I hate bending my knees. That and since I'm pretty short, I can see the ball coming from across the net better when I'm upright, especially balls with more topspin. It's aight though. I have a habit of actually bending my knees when I play serious points and matches.

enishi1357 · Jan 22, 2011

is it just me or did u hit alot of forehand out?

MasturB · Jan 22, 2011

ReopeningWed said:
Does the ball machine help? I have never, ever heard of any junior players admitting to using a ball machine. The only thing I can imagine using it for is volleying, and I'd still rather have someone else help me with that.

If you want me to be bluntly honest, this is the FIRST time I've used any ball machine in 2-3 years. I bought a silent partner in summer of 2008 that lasted for maybe 5 months before something went wrong with it. Even then I probably only used it 4 times before it broke. It's still sitting in my garage somewhere.

I much prefer hitting with people over ball machine. A lot of juniors at the club I work at like using the ball machine everyday. I've been tempted to go out there and try it with them. The only reason I used it was to record my video and get some consistent repetitions, as the juniors and players I normally hit with were on the other side of the facility doing clinics and drills.

MasturB · Jan 22, 2011

enishi1357 said:
is it just me or did u hit alot of forehand out?

I did actually. Although I wasn't worried that much about where the ball landed. A few of the shots I was trying to hit the lines and corners. But for the most part I got on the ball machine just for working on timing and takeback.

dozu · Jan 22, 2011

gotta listen to the planet and swing the human racket

MasturB · Jan 22, 2011

dozu said:
gotta listen to the planet and swing the human racket

I still have no idea what that means. lol

tricky · Jan 22, 2011

FH

Would still recommend separating left hand from racquet earlier. Again, have it start separating before left arm starts to extend. You can also think of it as separating the hand "forward" from the racquet. That would help clean also the issue with the left hand sometimes blocking your torso rotation as well as your backswing sometimes "pausing" prior to initation of forward swing.

You may want to try loading your outside foot from the hamstrings and buttocks (weight pushing off heel of back foot) instead of quads.

BH

Weight transfer could be better; it doesn't look like your weight is fully into the shot. In the BH situations shown on the video, if you had weight transfer, you would have landed on your outside foot as you follow through. Before turning sideways, start pushing off from the the balls of the outside foot. That'll help with that.

The legs are way too straight for BH. It looks like your torso is tilting or leaning to the left on low balls. You want your posture straight up. This also is connected with lack of weight transfer.

Other than that, the form looks pretty good from this angle. Head stays down. Forward swing finishes well. Torso doesn't open up too much. Left hand seems a little low, but it is being used as a counter balance.

HunterST · Jan 22, 2011

MasturB said:
I still have no idea what that means. lol

Dozu believes that golf tips he finds on youtube are the key to tennis.

You've got a really nice swing. I know you weren't going 100% here, but I think a wider base and maybe more knee bend would help you. It's tough to have good balance and generate power with the feet that close together (granted your are obviously still generating pace).

Pat Daugherty from the Bolleteiri academy has some videos on youtube about "the athletic foundation." That's kind of what I'm referring to.

dozu · Jan 22, 2011

^^^ slight correction.

I believe the 'swinging tips' I found are the key to swinging.

listen to the planet - your firing tempo are not in tune with gravity, hence the arm movement pulls body off balance.

swing the human racket - your focus is on the graphite therefore the body and arm are disconnected because the arm is trying to do something... the ONLY way, for body and arm to stay connected, is for the arm to do nothing.

MasturB · Jan 22, 2011

HunterST said:
Dozu believes that golf tips he finds on youtube are the key to tennis.

You've got a really nice swing. I know you weren't going 100% here, but I think a wider base and maybe more knee bend would help you. It's tough to have good balance and generate power with the feet that close together (granted your are obviously still generating pace).

Pat Daugherty from the Bolleteiri academy has some videos on youtube about "the athletic foundation." That's kind of what I'm referring to.

Heh. Wider base and knee bend is actually next on my to do list after opening up my left arm earlier before I swing .

I was experimenting with the wider base on my footwork patterns last night when I was rallying and playing a set. Physically it FELT like it allowed me to cover more ground laterally, I just haven't convinced myself mentally that it works. Since I'm short heightwise, I've always used smaller and quicker steps to cover more ground over longer strides (since I don't have long legs) and it's always worked for me. So that's why I tend to keep my feet close together, since I feel I have more control over my center of gravity. I'll keep experimenting with the wider base though.

As for knee bend, on my backhands I've whacked my knee cap with my topspin 1HBH a few times bending my knee on low balls. Very painful. On forehand, I actually do bend them quite often when the adrenaline is rushing when I'm playing points,matches, and more focused.

NLBwell · Jan 22, 2011

dozu said:
the ONLY way, for body and arm to stay connected, is for the arm to do nothing.

I'm not sure exactly what you mean, but in a way I agree. The arm should stay loose and just guide the racket, the momentum is generated from the toes to the shoulder.

MasturB · Jan 22, 2011

dozu said:
^^^ slight correction.

I believe the 'swinging tips' I found are the key to swinging.

listen to the planet - your firing tempo are not in tune with gravity, hence the arm movement pulls body off balance.

swing the human racket - your focus is on the graphite therefore the body and arm are disconnected because the arm is trying to do something... the ONLY way, for body and arm to stay connected, is for the arm to do nothing.

In that case, I DO use the human racket on cross court forehands. Not inside out crosscourt, but right to left. It's probably my favorite shot to hit. I'm usually getting all the power from my right leg and left oblique on those shots. I can feel my arm whipping the ball like crazy but I'm not forcing the arm whipping.

I actually do use the human racket on some swings. Just depends on what shot i'm going for and what body position I'm in.

tricky · Jan 22, 2011

Wider base and knee bend is actually next on my to do list

Consider using your hamstrings, buttocks, and lower back as your power base for the open stance FH (i.e. push off the heel of the outside foot.) It provides a more stable foundation, and facilitates a wider, lower base without strain on the knees or hips.

MasturB · Jan 22, 2011

tricky said:
FH

Would still recommend separating left hand from racquet earlier. Again, have it start separating before left arm starts to extend. You can also think of it as separating the hand "forward" from the racquet. That would help clean also the issue with the left hand sometimes blocking your torso rotation as well as your backswing sometimes "pausing" prior to initation of forward swing.

It's been noted and marked. That's something I've been planning on doing for a while.

You may want to try loading your outside foot from the hamstrings and buttocks (weight pushing off heel of back foot) instead of quads.

I actually am loading off from my hammies and buttocks. I probably overused the term quads in this thread because I figured people would relate to it more. But if it makes any sense, my hammies and glutes are what's really sore after all my practices, so I know I'm loading on them.

BH

Weight transfer could be better; it doesn't look like your weight is fully into the shot. In the BH situations shown on the video, if you had weight transfer, you would have landed on your outside foot as you follow through. Before turning sideways, start pushing off from the the balls of the outside foot. That'll help with that.

I'm still feeling out my backhand mechanics. I'm still trying to figure out where my eyes should be at point of contact, where my head should be placed, and the angle of my body. Sometimes I point my foot at 45 degrees to the court, sometimes I point my foot parallel with the baseline. Still searching for what makes me comfortable and will allow me to have more weight transfer.

The legs are way too straight for BH. It looks like your torso is tilting or leaning to the left on low balls. You want your posture straight up. This also is connected with lack of weight transfer.

I mentioned this in the other post, but I"ve been pretty gunshy on bending my knees on my topspin backhand. The reason is, I've incidentally whacked my right knee when I bent it with the buttcap of the racket a few times. I'm winding up my swing, and about 3/4 through the swing I hit my knee with the buttcap and it feels AWFUL.

Other than that, the form looks pretty good from this angle. Head stays down. Forward swing finishes well. Torso doesn't open up too much. Left hand seems a little low, but it is being used as a counter balance.
Yeah the reason I keep my left hand low, is because it allows me to keep my posture up so my upper body is basically an upright 90 degree angle with the ground. Like you said, counter balance and stabilizer. It allows me to use more shoulder rotation on the swing. In all honesty, my right shoulder was very tired from the previous day when I served a bunch and played for 5 continuous hours. I really was struggling to get any shoulder rotation on the backhands in this video. I was playing a guy that hit a lot of well placed high topspin shots to me (like Rafa does to Fed) and that REALLY worked my shoulder. I tried to mix it up with some slices, but he just kept attacking my backhand. I normally choose to run around and hit forehands to prevent myself from hitting those backhands, but he was just placing them insanely well in the corner and cutting off my time. I'm still not comfortable yet hitting topspin backhands on the rise inside the baseline. I haven't found the range yet. So that's why I generally run around and hit forehands.

As you can tell, I have a huge checklist of things I've written down that I'm still pushing to work on. A lot of the stuff you've mentioned I have already targeted, just not going to get to it yet until I master the other stuff. Don't wanna work on 5 different things and juggle it. I tried that when I first started teaching myself the game to rush my learning curve and it was a mess. Now I'm more patient and just want to focus and make sure I get things right first before moving on to the next detail.

It's great to know you notice and understands these things too though, I really do appreciate it. I can relax a little knowing that someone else thinks similar to me and I'm not losing my mind.

Responses in bold.

MasturB · Jan 22, 2011

tricky said:
Consider using your hamstrings, buttocks, and lower back as your power base for the open stance FH (i.e. push off the heel of the outside foot.) It provides a more stable foundation, and facilitates a wider, lower base without strain on the knees or hips.

Oh absolutely. It's the core area. I have a pretty strong core, which is why I don't ever feel pain in my knees or hips.

As I mentioned in the other post, as long as I've been sprinting, running, playing sports with foot coordination, etc., I've always used short and small steps to cover ground more effectively over longer strides. And since I've always favored using short and small steps, it's why I've always kept my "base" a little bit closer together instead of wide.

But yeah I was experimenting with a wider base for my footwork patterns yesterday. For the actual forehand stances, I do hit with a wider base than you see in the videos. I'm going to keep toying with it a little bit and see how it goes.

HunterST · Jan 22, 2011

dozu said:
^^^ slight correction.

I believe the 'swinging tips' I found are the key to swinging.

listen to the planet - your firing tempo are not in tune with gravity, hence the arm movement pulls body off balance.

swing the human racket - your focus is on the graphite therefore the body and arm are disconnected because the arm is trying to do something... the ONLY way, for body and arm to stay connected, is for the arm to do nothing.

Man, you're getting silly with this stuff. The arm should do nothing? You should run around with a limp arm and whip it around like an overcooked noodle? C'mon, bro.

I understand that you really believe in this stuff, but you talk like you're some type of authority and this is all common knowledge amongst tennis coaches. In actuality, you found golf (yes, golf) tips on youtube, and you hypothesize that they also apply to tennis. You also constantly use odd jargon terms that the people you're trying to help don't understand.

I don't have a problem with you personally or anything, but when you write with as much conviction and authority as you are, you open your statements to dispute.

MasturB · Jan 22, 2011

HunterST said:
Man, you're getting silly with this stuff. The arm should do nothing? You should run around with a limp arm and whip it around like an overcooked noodle? C'mon, bro.

I understand that you really believe in this stuff, but you talk like you're some type of authority and this is all common knowledge amongst tennis coaches. In actuality, you found golf (yes, golf) tips on youtube, and you hypothesize that they also apply to tennis. You also constantly use odd jargon terms that the people you're trying to help don't understand.

I don't have a problem with you personally or anything, but when you write with as much conviction and authority as you are, you open your statements to dispute.

LOL .

I will say that I agree and disagree with dozu.

There are times where I hit the ball cleanly and I'm not using as much arm on my striking. Then there are times where I hit the ball cleanly and I'm using my arm to lead the charge on the ball. It's really an unexplained science in biomechanics. My conclusion, is that there are several ways to get the racket from point a to point b, and that your body will be in different positions that will change the starting points of point a and point b. I think if you want to be able to hit power from different points, you're going to need some muscle all around and have good athleticism. Yes having strong core muscles helps, but in this day and age you see guys like Monfils, Nadal, Berdych who have cut muscles everywhere.

tricky · Jan 22, 2011

I actually am loading off from my hammies and buttocks. I probably overused the term quads in this thread because I figured people would relate to it more. But if it makes any sense, my hammies and glutes are what's really sore after all my practices, so I know I'm loading on them.

Solid. As you said, your hams are sore, so it's understandable that you're standing a little straight. In general, "sit and lift" can be facilitated by your glutes coming forward as you set up the unit turn. Knees bend as a means to stabilize the base.

At some point, I'd like to see your general movement. More advanced footwork becomes less about step patterns and more about keeping your hips "open" and learning to shift your weight with your feet. This does two things. First, it speeds up and "lightens" your feet. Second, it connects your movement to your unit turn, so that weight transfer is always there.

The reason is, I've incidentally whacked my right knee when I bent it with the buttcap of the racket a few times.

I think it's because you're "swivelling." Your pelvis is turning around your right knee, where the knee is acting as a "brake" for your torso rotation. When this happens, your hitting arm can bunch a little into your trunk, which can cause the hitting arm to the knee.

Easiest way around this is, when hitting inside the baseline, just step out with the outside foot. It can be a very small step, but it opens up your hips and prevents your right knee from becoming that brake. Your weight transfer will be there, your left arm will also stabilize at a higher position, and you'll also find it easier to track balls on strange bounces.

Then there are times where I hit the ball cleanly and I'm using my arm to lead the charge on the ball. It's really an unexplained science in biomechanics.

There's explanations, but it's another thread.

EDIT:

It's been noted and marked. That's something I've been planning on doing for a while.

One Foot Drill can help with that.You'll notice a desire to tilt or lean to the right if you separate the hand from the racquet prior to extension. With that drill, you want to experience "clean" stride forward through the whole stroke.

MasturB · Jan 22, 2011

On the backhand, which one is the "outside" foot.

Being a righty, is it my right foot (closest to the net) or my left foot (behind me).

Trying to visualize what you mean when you say just step out with the outside foot.

Do you mean hitting with an open backhand stance?

tricky · Jan 22, 2011

On the backhand, which one is the "outside" foot.

Left foot.

Trying to visualize what you mean when you say just step out with the outside foot.

Coming out of the split step, you replant your left foot (weight onto the balls of that left foot) before turning your pelvis side ways. You don't have to necessarily have your left foot actually planted before you can turn, but you want to start with the feet.

This is to open the outside hip (i.e. left hip.) This is necessary to facilitate forward momentum/weight transfer and also arrive at the correct stance for a given shot.

At a more advanced level, the notion of keeping hips "open" gets integrated into footwork and movement patterns.

MasturB · Jan 22, 2011

tricky said:
Left foot.

Coming out of the split step, you replant your left foot (weight onto the balls of that left foot) before turning your pelvis side ways. You don't have to necessarily have your left foot actually planted before you can turn, but you want to start with the feet.

This is to open the outside hip (i.e. left hip.) This is necessary to facilitate forward momentum/weight transfer and also arrive at the correct stance for a given shot.

At a more advanced level, the notion of keeping hips "open" gets integrated into footwork and movement patterns.

Is this what you mean? His weight is planted on his left foot first.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lLL8C7cBIC4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1fcAvBOjS90

I'm pretty sure I kind of do what you're saying on some backhand shots, because I can kind of figure out what you're saying, I just can't visualize it 100%. Just need to see it to confirm.

I've hit open stance topspin backhands before, but they're mainly in necessity, like on the run or on the returns. I try to hit 95% of my topspin backhands with the right foot leading/planted/locked and a somewhat closed stance.

tricky · Jan 22, 2011

I've hit open stance topspin backhands before, but they're mainly in necessity, like on the run or on the returns.

Oh no no. Never open stance. When hitting into baseline, left foot is planted, then the right foot. It's the opposite step order of what you're doing.

This also guarantees that the stance is always, always closed. Usually it ends with the left foot in the air, or the left foot having to replant again (when you're getting stretched wide.)

tricky · Jan 22, 2011

I should mention that the step out is just one pattern. All the non-recovery movement patterns should enable the outside hip to open.

During a service return, it's really "left hip/right hip." The outside hip (i.e. hip closest to ball) follows the ball.

arche3 · Jan 23, 2011

HunterST said:
Man, you're getting silly with this stuff. The arm should do nothing? You should run around with a limp arm and whip it around like an overcooked noodle? C'mon, bro.

I understand that you really believe in this stuff, but you talk like you're some type of authority and this is all common knowledge amongst tennis coaches. In actuality, you found golf (yes, golf) tips on youtube, and you hypothesize that they also apply to tennis. You also constantly use odd jargon terms that the people you're trying to help don't understand.

I don't have a problem with you personally or anything, but when you write with as much conviction and authority as you are, you open your statements to dispute.

co-sign... lol. I agree. Dozu is a good TT guy but is getting WAY too into the human racket. after a certain skill of the tennis stroke there should not be any of this "in tune with the cosmos" stuff. Or all the golf stuff. I seriously doubt ANY of the top players is walking around talking about the human racket and being in tune with the cosmos to hit the ball better. It is very very simple really. Get our feet moving and have good enough movement to get to the ball to setup YOUR shot and swing. rinse, repeat. No gravity assist needed. no issue with Dozu but dude, enough of the human racket and mother earth stuff.

dozu · Jan 23, 2011

^^^ lol, I am waiting for my buddy to show up to play some on my golf simulator this afternoon and therefore have a couple of hours to kill to get deeper into the human racket stuff.

agree that the stuff I am posting is nothing new... they are well taught by good tennis pros.... like I said, the reason I chose these golf clips, is because Shawn C explains balance and body/arm relationship very in-depth, in logical and anatomically sound ways.... just to provide a different viewing angle for players to understand... Show me some youtube clips with tennis pros explaining WHY and HOW you need to/can stay in balance, and WHY and HOW the body must/can get out of the way to allow arm full access to the target, then I will stop posting golf clips.

and the reason that you may find this stuff getting old, is not my fault.... 'me hitting videos' keep coming up here, and to my eyes, they all have similar issues.... which is understandable, because the very definition of the skill pyramid, is that the base is much bigger than the top... and we all go thru the developing period where we just spontaneously react to the incoming ball, by hand-slapping the graphite at the ball, which leads to all sorts of issues.

This is similar in the golf skill pyramid among all players... new golfers, with club in hand and ball in sight, will spontaneously try to move that club head to meet the ball, which leads to all sorts of issues.

Bender · Jan 23, 2011

Your form seems fine, just need to bend your legs a little and your backhands won't hit the net so often. (I say this because I'm also too lazy to bend my legs and hit things into the net on my BH)

HunterST · Jan 23, 2011

dozu said:
^^^ lol, I am waiting for my buddy to show up to play some on my golf simulator this afternoon and therefore have a couple of hours to kill to get deeper into the human racket stuff.

agree that the stuff I am posting is nothing new... they are well taught by good tennis pros.... like I said, the reason I chose these golf clips, is because Shawn C explains balance and body/arm relationship very in-depth, in logical and anatomically sound ways.... just to provide a different viewing angle for players to understand... Show me some youtube clips with tennis pros explaining WHY and HOW you need to/can stay in balance, and WHY and HOW the body must/can get out of the way to allow arm full access to the target, then I will stop posting golf clips.

and the reason that you may find this stuff getting old, is not my fault.... 'me hitting videos' keep coming up here, and to my eyes, they all have similar issues.... which is understandable, because the very definition of the skill pyramid, is that the base is much bigger than the top... and we all go thru the developing period where we just spontaneously react to the incoming ball, by hand-slapping the graphite at the ball, which leads to all sorts of issues.

This is similar in the golf skill pyramid among all players... new golfers, with club in hand and ball in sight, will spontaneously try to move that club head to meet the ball, which leads to all sorts of issues.

The bolded part illustrates what frustrates me a little bit about this stuff. You're just assuming that things that are important to a golf swing are also key to a tennis stroke. Obviously balance is important, but how do you know the golf tips about "getting out of the way of the arm" are good advice for tennis. You don't. You just assume that it's the same.

There's a baseball video the coach describes the swing as driving and exploding into the shot. That sounds awfully different from your advice about letting gravity do the work. Further, he advocates pushing with the arms through the contact point, not letting the arms do nothing.

The baseball video is just as applicable to tennis, if not more so, than the golf videos. In short, my issue is that your videos have absolutely no relation to tennis other than the ones you have given them.

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