Nadal's top and the humidity

TMCW140 · Jan 22, 2011

Anyone watching the Rafa/ Tomic match?
Rafa is absolutely dripping with sweat- looks like he's been swimming. He's got through at least 3 shirts in 2 and abit sets, and has just got onto his 4th, which is the 1st one that had been left out to dry. Apparently it's not even that humid (Tomic seems fine), but Rafa's shirt are getting drenched instantly, and clinging. Also, interestingly, looks like it has the standard white washing instruction label on the lower left inseam.
Has this been happening in his other matches? Not really doing much for Nike, and the whole concept of Dri Fit, when one of their top players has to change his shirt at every change of ends.
Has anyone got one and found this? Or is it just his version that doesn't quite seem to be working?

rovex · Jan 22, 2011

I mentioned this in the match thread, he's actually gone through 4 shirts, not a good advert for Nike.

hcb0804 · Jan 22, 2011

TMCW140 said:
Anyone watching the Rafa/ Tomic match?
Rafa is absolutely dripping with sweat- looks like he's been swimming. He's got through at least 3 shirts in 2 and abit sets, and has just got onto his 4th, which is the 1st one that had been left out to dry. Apparently it's not even that humid (Tomic seems fine), but Rafa's shirt are getting drenched instantly, and clinging. Also, interestingly, looks like it has the standard white washing instruction label on the lower left inseam.
Has this been happening in his other matches? Not really doing much for Nike, and the whole concept of Dri Fit, when one of their top players has to change his shirt at every change of ends.
Has anyone got one and found this? Or is it just his version that doesn't quite seem to be working?

The whole "DRI Fit" concept is BS. You sweat, your clothes get wet. End of story. I've only ever had 1 Fila shirt that is as much holes as it is fabric that has kept close to somewhat dry while playing. It's the one from summer 2008 that's a gray/yellow swirly pattern all over....Tursonov, Tipseravic, Cilic etc. wore it.

Wilander Fan · Jan 22, 2011

hcb0804 said:
The whole "DRI Fit" concept is BS. You sweat, your clothes get wet. End of story. I've only ever had 1 Fila shirt that is as much holes as it is fabric that has kept close to somewhat dry while playing. It's the one from summer 2008 that's a gray/yellow swirly pattern all over....Tursonov, Tipseravic, Cilic etc. wore it.

Yeah the Dri-Fit is just for looks. Its basically plastic (100% polyester) so it doest look wet. Also - it starts to stink after awhile. That being said, I dont think Nadal's shirt is dri-fit. Its holding the water too much.

TMCW140 · Jan 22, 2011

I'm not defending the whole concept of Dri-Fit or anything (as I'd imagine Tomic's Nike Shirt was the same material), it was just bizarre- I've never seen any shirt reacting quite that bad

Bartelby · Jan 22, 2011

Nadal has been ill and is obviously still ill.

Bobby Jr · Jan 22, 2011

I know it says Nadal's shirts are Dri-Fit but they don't feel like them. I actually tried one on today while going through some Nike shirts etc to test the size (then order online cheaper ha ha) and even when dry the Nadal shirts are horrible material... it feels like a plastic wrapper. I can see why it looked so slimy on Nadal in the Tomic match.

FYI, both his and the Federer shirts are majorly tiny. I'm usually a medium and they were both literally skin tight on me. The shop said they've missed out on dozens of sales because they can't get any XL sizes for the people who usually wear L.

SempreSami · Jan 22, 2011

Wilander Fan said:
Yeah the Dri-Fit is just for looks. Its basically plastic (100% polyester) so it doest look wet. Also - it starts to stink after awhile. That being said, I dont think Nadal's shirt is dri-fit. Its holding the water too much.

None of my sportswear smells and I've had it for ages. Try airing it out properly after you wash it.

Consolation · Jan 22, 2011

Your body cools by producing sweat that evaporates from the skin surface, cooling the skin. When you wick sweat away from the skin, you lose the cooling effect. The ideal shirt, for cooling ability, is one that has a very large surface area, but stays against the skin surface. Nike actually had a line specifically designed for this (think it was called sphere), but apparently it didn't sell well because it results in a wet shirt that sticks to you. That's great for cooling, but very different than what people are used to.

No idea if that's what Nadal's shirt is designed for, but it's producing the right effect for maximizing body cooling.

TMCW140 · Jan 22, 2011

So your saying that Nadal's shirt acting that way was actually beneficial and keeping him cool?

Consolation · Jan 22, 2011

TMCW140 said:
So your saying that Nadal's shirt acting that way was actually beneficial and keeping him cool?

Compared to a shirt that does not stick to the skin, yes. Any skin tight shirt will be beneficial compared to being shirtless or being loose.

Beyond that, it gets more complicated. The usual dry-fit type fabrics are relatively thick (still very light, just the weave is more widely spaced). Since they aren't worried about skin proximity, they want to maximize surface area to allow more sweat/air interface for the sweat to evaporate. The sphere line, and other manufacturers versions, have the same goal of large surface area, but also have to be thin enough such that the evaporation is occuring very close to the skin surface to provide a cooling effect. These fabrics often use similar weaves to dry-fit fabrics, but have to have a stretch componant, and tend to use much small diameter threads to keep the thickness down. Because of this, they tend to have a silkier feel and often shinier appearance.

On TV his shirt looks very similar to these types of fabrics, but I have no idea if it's specifically designed for it, or just looks similar.

These fabrics are pretty much ubiquitous in long distance running and cycling. My guess is the wet/sticky feel has more trouble being accepted in other sports.

Power Player · Jan 22, 2011

I am watching TChannel and it's women's tennis..I wish I could see the Nadal match right now.

tennisnoob3 · Jan 22, 2011

Power Player said:
I am watching TChannel and it's women's tennis..I wish I could see the Nadal match right now.

it ended at 1 on espn2.

Power Player · Jan 22, 2011

ahhhh..damn..thanks

Pioneer · Jan 22, 2011

His pants looked soaked. Anyway, how could anyone play with those terrible nike clothes. They seem terribly synthetic. Lacoste clothing is very comfy and absorbant.

Totai · Jan 22, 2011

hcb0804 said:
The whole "DRI Fit" concept is BS. You sweat, your clothes get wet. End of story. I've only ever had 1 Fila shirt that is as much holes as it is fabric that has kept close to somewhat dry while playing. It's the one from summer 2008 that's a gray/yellow swirly pattern all over....Tursonov, Tipseravic, Cilic etc. wore it.

Fila makes the best shirts. period. They are getting all my business atm

Cup8489 · Jan 22, 2011

Totai said:
Fila makes the best shirts. period. They are getting all my business atm

This. I'd only use nike or adidas tennis clothing if I was paid 3 or 4 times what fila could..

Fila is cheaper/more effective/less flashy, and thus no one considers me a poser for wearing them. I also have some tennis uniforms from HS that have like a drifit styled cloth, but the nike one is actually a soccer shirt with mesh(ish) sides, and this keeps me the coolest.

TheBoom · Jan 22, 2011

TMCW140 said:
I'm not defending the whole concept of Dri-Fit or anything (as I'd imagine Tomic's Nike Shirt was the same material), it was just bizarre- I've never seen any shirt reacting quite that bad

My hitting partners lol

Smitty7712 · Jan 22, 2011

Nadal announced in a post match interview that he has had a virus and has lost weight and has sweated more profusely. Here's the link: http://www.australianopen.com/en_AU/news/interviews/2011-01-23/201101231295736522543.html

"I was perfect when I started the season in Abu Dhabi playing. I was playing perfect and I was feeling perfect physically. In Doha, I had that problem. I wasn't feel very well. Have fever and these things. Seems like after that my body is still not perfect. I am sweating more than usual. I am more tired than usual when I'm playing. That's what happen right now. That's the true."

Rusty10201 · Jan 22, 2011

Pioneer said:
Lacoste clothing is very comfy and absorbant.

They better be if you have to work for a week to buy one of their shirts.

XFactorer · Jan 22, 2011

I'll defend Dri-Fit.

The concept of Dri-Fit is that it wicks the sweat away from the skin to the surface of the shirt where it can evaporate more quickly vs. sweat being trapped between your skin and your shirt (where the shirt acts as a barrier).

Anyone who's a heavy sweater will look soaked in any polyester-based sports shirt that's of the same colors. You don't notice them as easily on whites and blacks. Put Nadal in any other brand on that same day and he'll sweat right through it and you all will say "Oh, this brand is so horrible."

Dri-Fit is preferable to cotton because it dries faster. Sphere Dry (part of the Dri-Fit family) is a 3-D fabric structure that increases the surface area of the shirt and thus, in theory, dries out faster.

Sweat is the body's response to heat. Heat is released through sweat; but if it sticks to your body, it just insulates your skin to trap in more heat. You don't want to be wet; you want to be dry to remain cool.

rovex · Jan 23, 2011

Pioneer said:
His pants looked soaked. Anyway, how could anyone play with those terrible nike clothes. They seem terribly synthetic. Lacoste clothing is very comfy and absorbant.

Nah, lacoste is overpriced garbage.

TMCW140 · Jan 23, 2011

mr_eko said:
Uploaded with ImageShack.us

For reference. Hmm, sweaty

legends70 · Jan 23, 2011

This truck me while I was watching too. I was thinking "That shirt looks horribly uncomfortable"
I don't get why more pros use DUC? It's a really underrated brand and if they produced more clothes, they could be just as large as any other brand.

andfor · Jan 23, 2011

If you are a heavy sweater, and I am one, it does not matter what brand you wear. In hot and humid conditions I've thoroughly soaked every brand and material known to man.

For me, I prefer dri-fit and find it takes longer to get totally soaked. Usually after a set and I change my shirt for a dry one. As for the shorts I just deal with it until the match is over.

My guess is, if it does not bother Rafa he just plays on in a wet shirt until he feels like putting on a dry one. Bottom line, all players sweat at different rates and ultimately its simply a players choice if they want to play in dry or wet clothes.

Consolation · Jan 23, 2011

XFactorer said:
I'll defend Dri-Fit.
Sweat is the body's response to heat. Heat is released through sweat; but if it sticks to your body, it just insulates your skin to trap in more heat. You don't want to be wet; you want to be dry to remain cool.

Heat is dissipated when the sweat evaporates. It's the phase change that cools. Wherever the sweat is when it evaporates, that's where the cooling will occur. Any sweat that is wicked away from the surface of the skin to evaporate, represents a waste of energy and fluid, as no benefit is received from the production of that sweat.

If you are hot, you most definitely want to be wet, as that's the only way your body can cool itself.

There is a fairly large range in the amount people can sweat. Being able to sweat more is a positive adaptation to heat, and correlates with improved relative performance in hot environments (as long as fluid loses can be replaced). When athletes 'heat acclimate' (such as when tennis players go to Australia for a few weeks before the AO), two of the the primary adaptations are a marked increase in sweat rate, and a marked decrease in salt content (so you can produce more sweat without depleting electrolyte stores).

XFactorer · Jan 24, 2011

Consolation said:
Heat is dissipated when the sweat evaporates. It's the phase change that cools. Wherever the sweat is when it evaporates, that's where the cooling will occur. Any sweat that is wicked away from the surface of the skin to evaporate, represents a waste of energy and fluid, as no benefit is received from the production of that sweat.

If you are hot, you most definitely want to be wet, as that's the only way your body can cool itself.

I agree. But what I'm saying is you'd want to be "wiped down" with a cloth [or, in this case, Dri-Fit shirts] so new beads of sweat can form. This is just an accelerated, assistance of the "sweat evaporation" to cool you down.

alexfed · Jan 24, 2011

I am seeing Nadal-Cilic now and I am pretty sure that Nadal is wearing a size up from the usual on his shirt!!!
We all noticed that he sweats too much now,(because of his illness),but I noticed also that his tops were very very sticky on his body in previous matches.
Now in match with Cilic, his shirt is more airy and wide on his body!!!Standar a size up from the normal!!!
Check out!

rjg007 · Jan 24, 2011

Yes I noticed he was wearing a bigger shirt too.

Torres · Jan 24, 2011

The disadvantage with the Nadal shirt is that the material is satin like, soft and body hugging, all of which makes it great for comfort and cooler days, but not so good if you're sweating buckets because it clings to you even more.

The best shirts for hot weather were the Adidas Bermuda Edge V neck shirts promoted by Tsonga. Thin, very well ventilated and loose fitting yet not baggy.

And the end of the day though, its a question of degree - no shirt is going to work miracles in 100 degree heat.

Consolation · Jan 24, 2011

XFactorer said:
I agree. But what I'm saying is you'd want to be "wiped down" with a cloth [or, in this case, Dri-Fit shirts] so new beads of sweat can form. This is just an accelerated, assistance of the "sweat evaporation" to cool you down.

Wiping down, or wicking the sweat away, is not evaporation. Evaporation is when the liquid water in your sweat changes to a gas. That's what cools you. It's the same process that keeps your refrigerator cool. Wiping yourself down provides no cooling at all. The process of making sweat generates heat. If you wipe it off, you get no cooling, but are stuck with the heat generated in producing it.

Wearing wet, clingy clothes* is not 'comfortable' for most people, but it is the best way to maximize cooling.

*Assuming the clothes are designed for it, which means pretty much any sport specific fabric weave, with some being better than others.

hcb0804 · Jan 24, 2011

rjg007 said:
Yes I noticed he was wearing a bigger shirt too.

Yes, much bigger, looser shirt. Looks kinda goofy.

rovex · Jan 24, 2011

hcb0804 said:
Yes, much bigger, looser shirt. Looks kinda goofy.

So does that mean tailor made tight fitting clothes sticks to your body more?

Baggy all the way!?

Babolast · Jan 24, 2011

Your are 100% correct. Rafa was indeed wearing a bigger shirt size.

li0scc0 · Jan 24, 2011

It seems Nadal is not as trim as in the past. His body fat % is higher than it was in 2008/early 2009, and his level of muscularity is lower (it was never high, but is quite a bit lower now). Higher body fat % often indicates a lower level of fitness, and hence why we are seeing him sweat more now than in the past.

perh4ps · Jan 24, 2011

Not really li0scc0... he has a virus, fever and thats why hes sweating more... not because of his fitness... read a bit before posting

li0scc0 · Jan 24, 2011

perh4ps said:
Not really li0scc0... he has a virus, fever and thats why hes sweating more... not because of his fitness... read a bit before posting

I read it, but I don't buy his claim of having a virus/fever. Nadal has routinely indicated he is ill, tired, or hurting. He is not playing like a man who is ill, his play is very solid.
Fact: his body fat % is higher than it was in the past.
Fact: his level of muscularity is lower
Conclusion: His level of fitness may be lower
Result: He is sweating more

N23 · Jan 24, 2011

I will agree the shirt did look mighty shiny in his match and the camera did make it look as sweaty as can be. I'm sure all the players were sweating like pigs out there but that shirt just shows it more.

One more thing... what is with Nike making these new shirts to be SUPER FITTED! I get the fashion sense in that skinny is in but dang... if you're not anywhere near skinny you're out of luck with Nike wear.

bertrevert · Jan 24, 2011

Welcome to the wonderful world of playing tennis in Australia - at night. Just because it's night doesn't mean it's cooler than the day was.

I wonder if any tennis clothing manufacturer really addresses the extremes down here?

Nadal's Nike gear appears not to cut it really - he's changing top 3 times per match.

One development in clothing we do get here in tennis tees is added sun protection pumped into the weave with the different degrees of SPF quoted on the label (15+, 30+ etc).

While that is a good development it seems patently obvious that no-one's conquered the sweat issues we experience when playing here.

The other side of what wick-away does is that not only does it pull away the sweat but it's meant to spread the moisture evenly throughout the garment. So it doesn't collect in one place but is evenly distributed to promote cooling all over.

But I've tried wick-away shirts... for me all polyester tennis shirts are a disaster and I have to put up with heavy (when wet) cotton.

I like modern tennis gear but polyester is rank in humid conditions. Even the singlets.

In the same way that racquets are now divided into ever-smaller spec ranges in order to satisfy niche markets, I wonder if we may get gear to satisfy different country conditions?

Sure right now there is a basic Winter and Summer divide.

How long before we get "ideal in Abu Dhabi conditions" or "made for the Ozzie Soup" or "keep cool in Sydney sweat" or....

Nadal, being a big sweater, has certainly in prev Oz Opens absolutely soaked his gear...

Nadal's top and the humidity

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