Best slice backhand ever?
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TCTEN
Rookie
Sorry, let me rephrase, best slice backhands ever regardless of my having seen them.
Men: Becker
Women: Graf
Hows that?
Limpinhitter
G.O.A.T.
How do you post a link where the video starts at a chosen point?
Limpinhitter
G.O.A.T.
For Graf, you can make a pretty good argument. For Becker, that's pretty clueless!
Some other nominees on the ladies side. BJK was noted for her backhand. She used slice predominantly both as a rally shot and approach and only used top to go for a clean winner or a pass.
But Court has to be up on this list for many of the same reasons Graf is. I have only seen one MAYBE topspin backhand in all the tennis matches I have seen, including passes! I kept watching and watching, wiating to see her hit topspin off that wing. It did not happen. If my matches are representative, than this woman dominated all surfaces and majors with nothing but slice lobs, slice approaches, slice passes, etc. TRust me, folks were not eager to hit to the Court forehand. You guys need to take a look and prove me wrong, or Graf did nothing new!
But Court has to be up on this list for many of the same reasons Graf is. I have only seen one MAYBE topspin backhand in all the tennis matches I have seen, including passes! I kept watching and watching, wiating to see her hit topspin off that wing. It did not happen. If my matches are representative, than this woman dominated all surfaces and majors with nothing but slice lobs, slice approaches, slice passes, etc. TRust me, folks were not eager to hit to the Court forehand. You guys need to take a look and prove me wrong, or Graf did nothing new!
I've seen lots of his matches against Lendl. Just 6 hours of slice backhand pushes.
I agree with you. Wilander let that slice become far too pervasive in his game in later years. It was a good shot, steady and accurate but it was not offensive, and it did not worry opponents much except to move them around a bit and keep a rally going.
I don't think so. It helped him a lot against Lendl. Maybe against other players he used it too much -- and he did say himself that in '88 he wasn't hitting his topsin BH as well as he used to, because he was slicing so much. But that slice diminished Lendl's ability to attack him; Lendl could punish him far better when he got higher shots into his FH strike zone. I think Lendl like Wilander's topspin BH more than the slice.
Wilander hit the slice so well in the '88 USO final that Bjorn Hellberg said it won him the match.
When he came to net in that match Wilander hit topspin approaches -- can't remember if there was any slice approach in there. There were some reports in the media that observed that his topspin approaches were not as effective as Noah's slice approaches.
I know in '82 Wilander only used the slice as a desperation shot, when he couldn't get two hands on the ball. By the '83 AO final his slice looks like the one we all remember him using so much in '87 and '88 (and it's true, in those years he probably used it more than ever).
If you right-click on the video itself, at the point you want to link to, you should get an option to generate a link to the clip at the current point.
Limpinhitter
G.O.A.T.
Thanks!
How's this for a backhand slice weapon: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lJubuKDN7Fk&feature=player_detailpage#t=161s
Or this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lJubuKDN7Fk&feature=player_detailpage#t=376s
Or this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wHaN2h21ANs&feature=player_detailpage#t=193s
Or this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=43csIDKmkMk&feature=player_detailpage#t=453s
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TCTEN
Rookie
Apparently my opinion that Boris Becker had a superior or perhaps the best ever slice bh makes me "clueless".
The slice is not a shot off of which winners are hit, it is used to set up the opportunity to hit a winner. My contention is that BB hit the backhand slice approach with unequaled ferocity and when he utilized this shot on his way to net the result was usually a volley hit for winner. Based on what I've witnessed and the opinion of a very respected tennis acquaintance of mine Becker could put more RPMs and bite on that shot than anyone.
If somebody disagrees with my opinion that's fine but it doesn't give one just cause to throw insults at me.
FedExpress 333
Professional
1. Rosewall
2. Federer
3. Laver
Women:
1. Graf
2. Federer
3. Laver
Women:
1. Graf
Apparently my opinion that Boris Becker had a superior or perhaps the best ever slice bh makes me "clueless".
The slice is not a shot off of which winners are hit, it is used to set up the opportunity to hit a winner. My contention is that BB hit the backhand slice approach with unequaled ferocity and when he utilized this shot on his way to net the result was usually a volley hit for winner. Based on what I've witnessed and the opinion of a very respected tennis acquaintance of mine Becker could put more RPMs and bite on that shot than anyone.
If somebody disagrees with my opinion that's fine but it doesn't give one just cause to throw insults at me.
IMO...hitting a backhand approach shot is no comparison to hitting a drive during a rally or to pass someone at the net. Guys like Rosewall and Laver were hitting winners with slice backhands. They were taking their opponents' deep offensive shots and returning slice backhand winners, so I give the nod to guys like them.
Becker was a great player too. If he needed offense his topspin backhand was a great shot, and honestly, if you have a great topspin backhand there's no reason to hit slice if you need offense and the situation gives you that choice.
Since this is about slice backhands, for me, it's Rosewall and Laver in that order.
I'm kind of surprised to see Graf's name so much. If you had to pick the weakest part of her game, it was definitely her backhand. If there was one shot of her's you could exploit, it was her backhand. When experts commented that she would be unbelievable if she could consistently add a topspin backhand to her game, it was a backhanded compliment (excuse the pun); another way of saying her slice backhand was not enough on its own if she faced a real contender like Monica Seles. Her opponents would all hit to the backhand side, and she would run around it so much, it was common to see her on the left hand side of the left sideline during a rally.
Steffi Graf was one of my favorite women players of all-time, but I won't let that bias my opinion of her backhand. If her opponent was on the offense she used it to keep herself in the point until she had a chance to hit a winner with her forehand. At best she used it to set up a sitter for her forehand if she was in a position to do that. I'm guessing that her name is brought up just because we've all seen it so much, it was good enough to keep her at the top of women's tennis, and it's tough to think of other top women besides Martina, Billie Jean, and Evonne Goolagong who relied on slice as much.
I really don't know of a woman whose slice backhand would compare to a Rosewall or Laver. Rosewall's slice was widely known as one of the best shots in tennis. You can't say that about Steffi's backhand. The best backhands on the women's side are all topspin backhands. Justine Henin, for instance, had an incredible one-handed topspin backhand that Steffi Graf could only dream of having.
Steffi Graf was one of my favorite women players of all-time, but I won't let that bias my opinion of her backhand. If her opponent was on the offense she used it to keep herself in the point until she had a chance to hit a winner with her forehand. At best she used it to set up a sitter for her forehand if she was in a position to do that. I'm guessing that her name is brought up just because we've all seen it so much, it was good enough to keep her at the top of women's tennis, and it's tough to think of other top women besides Martina, Billie Jean, and Evonne Goolagong who relied on slice as much.
I really don't know of a woman whose slice backhand would compare to a Rosewall or Laver. Rosewall's slice was widely known as one of the best shots in tennis. You can't say that about Steffi's backhand. The best backhands on the women's side are all topspin backhands. Justine Henin, for instance, had an incredible one-handed topspin backhand that Steffi Graf could only dream of having.
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6-2/6-4/6-0
Semi-Pro
I'll nominate this for most insane thread ever. There is no question that Rosewall had the best slice backhand in the game. He could drill that thing and skim right above the net with a regularity that no one has ever come close to. Laver, Graf, etc. all had nice slice BHs, Conners had a great slice 2HBH, and Edberg could knife a slice approach with the best of them. But they all look like a bunch of high-schoolers (very good high-schoolers for sure) next to "KR the slice ninja." I'd be amazed if anyone ever came close to him...
TCTEN
Rookie
You make a valid point Ramon but I feel the reason why so many people are picking Graf in this thread is because she struck this shot as well or better than others. I agree though that in the overall context of her game the slice bh was a defensive stroke that kept her in a point until she could unleash a forehand. Also I believe she had a comfort level hitting her bh with slice that she didn't have when hitting it with topspin. However she was capable of hitting a very lethal topspin bh as evidenced in this video clip.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=pPU8MyBQhk8#t=64s
Hitting a topspin bh like that is something I can only dream about.
Just my 2 cents, thanks
Have you forgotten? This is a former player talk forum, which means it's a Laverion/Rosewallion forum. And some of the old-timers haven't seen enough(if any) of Federer to begin with.
Just for the Fed's fans, here's a few of Fed's amazing slice.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B01nhqJizTc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=igicoafWhT0
Don't worry about Fed's slice not making the top list of all time in here. We know how good he is.
Limpinhitter
G.O.A.T.
Apparently my opinion that Boris Becker had a superior or perhaps the best ever slice bh makes me "clueless".
The slice is not a shot off of which winners are hit, it is used to set up the opportunity to hit a winner. My contention is that BB hit the backhand slice approach with unequaled ferocity and when he utilized this shot on his way to net the result was usually a volley hit for winner. Based on what I've witnessed and the opinion of a very respected tennis acquaintance of mine Becker could put more RPMs and bite on that shot than anyone.
If somebody disagrees with my opinion that's fine but it doesn't give one just cause to throw insults at me.
"Clueless" isn't that much of an insult here on TT. In fact, by comparison to some, it's almost a term of endearment.
Anyway, your post doesn't help you get out of the "clueless" box. First, it's obvious that you don't know much about the history of tennis, and further, that you haven't even read through this thread. Second, but as I clearly demonstrated from the links in my recent post (which you apparently didn't look at either), the slice IS a shot off of which winners can and have been hit for the past 90 years, if you know how to do it. There are many who hit better slices than BB in every respect: defensively, offensively, transition game, etc., etc.. BB slice was a good shot, nothing more. Certainly not a weapon as many slices were. BB's topspin backhand was much better than his slice, IMO.
Yes, you're entitled to state your opinions. But, as I've learned and relearned here on TT, you should expect others to exercise their right to criticize your opinions, even when you're objectively correct, which you aren't in this case.
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Limpinhitter
G.O.A.T.
Rosewall had the best, most versatile slice ever. But, I wouldn't go so far as to say that Emerson, Laver, Ashe and Roche's slices looked like high schoolers by comparison.
Limpinhitter
G.O.A.T.
Thank you!
Show me the video where Laver/Rosewall have hit those amazing(and difficult) slices like Fed have done.
So what if you ranked Fed 2nd or 3rd greatest player, that doesn't prove to me that you are not biased.
6-2/6-4/6-0
Semi-Pro
Yes, it's certainly a bit of hyperbole, but I think the 'slice ninja' bit was pretty solid...
Apparently my opinion that Boris Becker had a superior or perhaps the best ever slice bh makes me "clueless".
The slice is not a shot off of which winners are hit, it is used to set up the opportunity to hit a winner. My contention is that BB hit the backhand slice approach with unequaled ferocity and when he utilized this shot on his way to net the result was usually a volley hit for winner. Based on what I've witnessed and the opinion of a very respected tennis acquaintance of mine Becker could put more RPMs and bite on that shot than anyone.
If somebody disagrees with my opinion that's fine but it doesn't give one just cause to throw insults at me.
Welome aboard TCTEN. Just let you know if you stick around on this forum you are going to get insulted by some of the bad apples in here. Last time a poster MotherMarjorie was attack by one of the member in here, who hardly visit this forum. But don't let them deter you....just stand up your own right and post what you believe whether if they like it or not.
Limpinhitter
G.O.A.T.
Rosewall was also a bit of a forehand, net game and footwork ninja as well. Further, IMO, Rosewall had some of the most beautiful looking groundstrokes and volleys I've ever seen. His timing and tempo were artistic in their beauty.
Check out this short video showing Rosewall and Roche warming up and see how fluid and flawless his timing, tempo and technique were warming up from the baseline with Roche at net:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=txaztRVQC94
Limpinhitter
G.O.A.T.
Datacipher
Banned
6-2/6-4/6-0
Semi-Pro
If there were a poll for most elegant player ever, I would give the title to Rosewall for sure - taking it from Edberg by half a length.
Cochet, right?
;-)
Datacipher
Banned
Uh.. Too young?
pc1
G.O.A.T.
Have you forgotten? This is a former player talk forum, which means it's a Laverion/Rosewallion forum. And some of the old-timers haven't seen enough(if any) of Federer to begin with.
Just for the Fed's fans, here's a few of Fed's amazing slice.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B01nhqJizTc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=igicoafWhT0
Don't worry about Fed's slice not making the top list of all time in here. We know how good he is.
Aren't you a little judgemental here? You know people here respect Federer but some don't think his slice backhand is the best ever. So would you expect everything about Federer to be the best ever?
His forehand could be the best ever. His footwork is superb. His serve is superb and he has a good volley. I think most here if not virtually everyone would agree. So if some here who may have seen more slice backhands than most think Federer doesn't have the best slice backhand, why indict everyone who posts here?
WONDERFUL!! LOL! The fact that he thinks those slices are unique to Federer is so ridiculous...well it's a perfect example of TMF's tennis ignorance.
Wow! Cannot describe how clueless you are. I never said it was unique but I simply ask if Laver/Rosewall can hit those ridiculous slice shots. But I don't expect you to think it's a ridiculous shot when Drakulie caught your foolishness by saying your friend(not a pro player) hit a 100mph SLICE bh.
Is there really a difference between a player who never hits a topspin backhand and one who hits maybe one or two in a match? It's one thing to hit a good topspin backhand when you have a perfect setup. It's another thing to hit one on a regular basis (like Justine Henin).
If I am correct, here is the difference,Graf can divide the credit for her victories over S/ver's like Martina or Novatna, or Shriver or Garrison, or Sukova where she did use her topspin backhand frequently to pass on that wing. She got Wimbledon titles thanks to her ability to pass on her backhand with topspin
Court can credit her slice backhand for every backhand pass by Bueno, King, Goolagong, Wade, Casals, in every match thoughout her whole career and her entire career swarmed w/ serve/volleyers. That is a lot of pressure on a slice that Graf did not have soley on her slice. Margaret got countless grass victories at forest Hills, kooyong, and wimbledon thanks to her slice and only her slice backhand
Now if Court used topspin on that wing to pass, or to rally on clay, it would divide the credit partially somewhere.
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I think tennis was played more elegantly in general in Rosewall's time (perhaps with the exception of the forehand stroke; it's aesthetic quality, on average, is better now than at any other time that I've seen, IMO).
pc1
G.O.A.T.
But you have to realize that there have been many thousands of excellent tennis players over the years and if a player is simply number 30 in all areas he or she would be virtually unbeatable. You seem to get upset if Federer in any category is out of the top twenty. Just remember that many rank Federer in the top five in a number of categories and in some perhaps number one.
The slice backhand has been the bread and butter for many players over the years and if a person ranks Federer's slice backhand as just very good, how bad is that? I wouldn't call that person against the belief that Federer is a super player.
chrischris
G.O.A.T.
Orantes had a super sliced backhand.My uncle showed me some videos to prove it the other week. It was a knife of a slice. i think he is underrated in this compartment.
I think in some ways the slice backhand has been demoted in the modern game. Back in the days of single shaft wooden racquets and multiple grass court grand slam tournaments it was a very important shot. Nowadays at the pro level, it's more about getting maximum pace on the ball, which you can't do with slice.
It's possible that Federer could have developed a Rosewall type slice backhand if he needed to, but in this day and age it's more important to develop a good topspin backhand.
It's possible that Federer could have developed a Rosewall type slice backhand if he needed to, but in this day and age it's more important to develop a good topspin backhand.
kiki
Banned
Very true, they all had a classical game
kiki
Banned
Totally true.Orantes, at his prime, had a sliced BH tan mistified many players, even Borg and Connors felt sometimes to that great bh
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