Posture Guy
Professional
what gauge is your cofocus? I might be willing to buy it from you. Feel free to email me if you're interested, my address is in my profile.
Pacific Classic 1.25 x MSV Co-Focus 1.18
- Thread starter Smasher08
- Start date
The Big Kahuna
Hall of Fame
I would definitely agree that the smooth poly will last longer than a textured one as a cross string if you are pairing with gut in the mains. SMASHER, you wrote the book on this concept and there is a lot of evidence there to support that you you research the subject. Smooth polys are best for cross strings.
The Big Kahuna
Hall of Fame
Smasher, that is the one quirk I have found with MSV Co-Focus 18, it takes a while to loosen up and get playable when new, and it seems to be a bit more temperature sensitive than other polys I have used. When the temsp get down in the 40s and 50s, do you find the string bed playing a lot stiffer with your set-up?
Smasher08
Legend
Oddly, I've found that as the temperature has gotten colder, I've found 30+ hour poly crosses loaded with string savers to be increasingly tolerable! Playing in +2 - -2 C nights just seems to be conducive to dead poly.
No idea if it's some kind of placebo effect or what. Because in theory I'd expect what you've described to be right on the money.
Maybe the weather needs to drop lower in SoCal!
Power Player
Bionic Poster
Im in.
using vs/ Cofocus at 58/53 and have pac classic and heptatwist coming for my next setup.
I dont like really low tension in my 6.1 16x18 so i am thinking i may stay at the same tension. The vsgut gets very powerful if you string too low, but at 58/53 i blew a guyu off the court with tons of control and heavy top.
using vs/ Cofocus at 58/53 and have pac classic and heptatwist coming for my next setup.
I dont like really low tension in my 6.1 16x18 so i am thinking i may stay at the same tension. The vsgut gets very powerful if you string too low, but at 58/53 i blew a guyu off the court with tons of control and heavy top.
Posture Guy
Professional
I'm considering ordering some VS Thermogut to try with the CoFocus instead of Classic. Anyone able to compare those two setups?
Smasher08
Legend
An earlier poster loved using heptatwist as his cross. He said it was great for something like 10-12 hours. Once you string up the hepta, please share any pics & review!
Power Player
Bionic Poster
I will do for sure. The 58/53 vstouch/cofocus setup is amazing for me so far. Just really no weaknesses. I am a week in and it is playing fantastic.
Posture Guy
Professional
Smasher....after reading up, I'll likely go with Wilson Natural Gut instead of the VS. I haven't used VS for about 8 years and my understanding is they fundamentally changed the product, and not in a good way.
Kahuna,
I've always greatly liked and noted your strings posts as re the Pres Pro and this has grabbed my attention big time! I'll have to give it a whirl I think. What's the word on Co-focus 1.18 in a full job?
mixedmedia
Professional
I'm pretty sure most people find it underwhelming as a main (or full bed) and find it performs best as a cross, but I could be wrong.
The Big Kahuna
Hall of Fame
I never play with a full poly job - I am coming off two years of arm problems caused by a full poly string set-up in a (too light) Dunlop 300G back in 2004-2006. Since going with a bit heavier racquet and hybrids with gut in the mains, the arm problems have cleared up and have not come back.
That said, after a lot of tinkering with tensions and cross strings, I would definitely put the Co-Focus 1.18 and WC Silverstring 1.20 at the top of the list for playtests with any gut. They are two of the top ten rated polys on Stringforum and all-around solid poly values for the dollar. Chris Edwards also recently suggested I try WC Misquito Bite 1.15 as an alternative to the MSV - which I plan to give a try.
I have found the MSV Co-Focus offers a bit more spin and power for this set up as opposed to the Silverstring. The Silverstring - on the other hand - felt a bit more crisp and precise, yet still very comfortable. Solid, with decent power, yet with good control. A bit less power and spin than the MSV, but perhaps with a bit more feel and tension stability. I suspect the MSV will play better for some in a tighter string pattern or stiffer frame as a cross string, while the Silverstring might be preferable in a more flexible frame.
SMASHER, have you ever tried the WC Silverstring 1.20 as an option to the MSV Co-Focus 1.18?
The Big Kahuna
Hall of Fame
I think you are right. I think most 18 gauge polys are made for use as a cross string, not a full bed. Good point.
Posture Guy
Professional
Big Kahuna....good stuff. Have you ever tried WC B5E? I've never tried Silverstring, wondering how the two would compare. I liked B5E as my poly cross of choice until I tried Co Focus. Found the latter to have a bit more pop but still good control. The B5E felt very low powered, which might be perfect for a bigger hitter. I just wanted to tame the gut a bit, not to the degree the B5E did.
The Big Kahuna
Hall of Fame
I avoid shaped or rough polys for a cross string. I rips up the gut faster and does not allow the guts to slide quite as well as a good slippery smooth poly. The explanation for this is buried in this thread early on from an article on the subject that appeared on Tennisplayer.net. What they say makes good sense.
Posture Guy
Professional
Thanks.
So, how much less power would you say Silverstring has compared to CoFocus? A small difference? Moderate? Significant?
So, how much less power would you say Silverstring has compared to CoFocus? A small difference? Moderate? Significant?
The Big Kahuna
Hall of Fame
Both strings felt good. If I had to rank them after one one each of hitting, my initial impressions side by side would be:
• KLIP Legend Tour natural gut black 17 mains @ 57# / MSV Co-Focus 18g crosses @ 52#
Power: B+
Control: B+
Feel: B+
Comfort: B+
Spin: A-
Comments: Starting RA 41 / after one day RA was 39. Strung at this tension there is a bit more "trampoline" effect from the string bed with the MSV.
• KLIP Legend Tour natural gut black 17 mains @ 57# / WC Silverstring 17L crosses @ 52#
Power: B
Control: A-
Feel: A-
Comfort: A-
Spin: B
Comments: Starting RA 41 / after one day RA was 39. Initially - my first impression - was I preferred this set-up. After alternating back and forth for two hours, however, I could appreciate the attributes of both (they were very subtle differences, to be honest).
Power difference was slight, but perceptible.
Posture Guy
Professional
Fantastic information, thank you. I'm going to try Silverstring, looking forward to it.
The Big Kahuna
Hall of Fame
I asked John from G&G his opinion on these three strings as crosses, and he says:
"Your summary is pretty much in line with the feedback I have heard. I personally know of a greater number of players who use the MSV string as a cross with gut mains. However, i strongly believe it comes down to personal preference. Both perform well in hybrid.
I like thinner strings as crosses and all three of your choices offer this. The Mosquito Bite would most likely be the liveliest of the three."
"Your summary is pretty much in line with the feedback I have heard. I personally know of a greater number of players who use the MSV string as a cross with gut mains. However, i strongly believe it comes down to personal preference. Both perform well in hybrid.
I like thinner strings as crosses and all three of your choices offer this. The Mosquito Bite would most likely be the liveliest of the three."
Smasher08
Legend
Update - 35 hours (Set 1)
This might be the end of the line for this stringjob: there's a couple of severe notches just north of the sweet spot.
I probably could try another string saver, but the notches are so deep that I doubt they'll prolong its life for long.
It's been a great hybrid.
Smasher08
Legend
I'd be curious to hear about how they both compare at the 8 hour mark and the 15 hour mark.
In theory, the elasticity of Co-F should mean noticeably less notching over time compared to Silver, and be spinnier as well.
It would be interesting to find out.
mixedmedia
Professional
You guys get some crazy longevity out of your gut/poly hybrids! Have you been restringing the crosses? If not, does the dead poly not hurt your arm?
That's a lot of string savers! I have mostly stopped using stringsavers. If I have ajust a few scattered around I don't notice them, but if I get a couple of adjacent intersections (and you've got a bunch of them) with string savers in them I really notice a change in feel and how it plays.
Smasher08
Legend
No crosses restringing at all! As for dead poly feel & string savers, I could definitely notice the difference back when the weather was warm. But when playing in -2 - +4C weather, hardly at all. It's pretty weird!
EDIT: btw, no pain at all from the dead poly crosses, unlike dead poly mains. They feel a bit dead and off, but the mains are still lively and impart the predominant feel of the stringbed.
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The Big Kahuna
Hall of Fame
In the end, I preferred the MSV Co-Focus as it was more comfortable and spinnier. It also had more feel due to the elasticity in the MSV.
Smasher08, have you ever used WC Scorpion as a cross with the gut mains? How did that compare to the MSV?
Posture Guy
Professional
I'm not smasher, but I tried scorpion in place of co focus. What I found was that it felt comparable in terms of play, but was stiffer, not as comfortable, and not as spinny.
I had no arm problems with co focus. Within 2 hours of hitting with scorpion, my elbow was sore. I sold the other half set for basically the cost of shipping to someone else on here.
I had no arm problems with co focus. Within 2 hours of hitting with scorpion, my elbow was sore. I sold the other half set for basically the cost of shipping to someone else on here.
The Big Kahuna
Hall of Fame
Thanks PG. I was looking at some other options for crosses, so I checked Stringforum's Top PRICE / PERFORMANCE Rated Poly Strings (as of 2/15/12) for ideas. I was not surprised to see MSV holding THREE of the top ten spots on the list. The Co-Focus was also named in their Top Ten Overall Polys of the year in the tester's poll in 2011 - the only other string on both lists was the MSV Focus - HEX.
I think I will stick with the Co-Focus 1.18 as the gold standard of poly crosses, all things considered. I can't find anything better for performance or value.
I think I will stick with the Co-Focus 1.18 as the gold standard of poly crosses, all things considered. I can't find anything better for performance or value.
The Big Kahuna
Hall of Fame
I hit with the Pacific Classic 1.24 gut mains / MSV Co-Focus 1.18 set-up today and I am a total believer now. Goodbye KLIP gut! Hello Pacific Classic 1.24.
AWESOME! Much more pocketing and more comfortable than the clip and the MSV seem much less spongy in the set-up with the Pacific than it did with the KLIP Legend Tour 17g mains I had been using for the last year in my Prestige. Nice spin, nice feel, good pop, and super comfy!
I am set with my new EXO3 Tour 16 x 18 now. FANTASTIC!
AWESOME! Much more pocketing and more comfortable than the clip and the MSV seem much less spongy in the set-up with the Pacific than it did with the KLIP Legend Tour 17g mains I had been using for the last year in my Prestige. Nice spin, nice feel, good pop, and super comfy!
I am set with my new EXO3 Tour 16 x 18 now. FANTASTIC!
Posture Guy
Professional
I've never tried the Klip gut, but I'm very satisfied with Classic/Co Focus. Definitely a nice combo.
Smasher08
Legend
Glad to hear you like it. And just wait til you see the spin after 12 hours!!
The Big Kahuna
Hall of Fame
Looking forward to it! Just wondered why I took so long to give it a try now!
The Big Kahuna
Hall of Fame
G&G might be able to help.
mixedmedia
Professional
And the bay might too.
mixedmedia
Professional
Is that the much anticipated hybrid?
GlenK
Professional
Well I've got a few lined up.. lol.. L-Tec tomorrow strung at 43/41 using JET. Same tensions I posted on GG the other day. Just finished stringing it up. It was pretty easy to string for a poly. One of the easiest I've tried. JET was a little tricky. Needs some getting used to.
Then WC Silver string closely followed by Co-focus..
Then WC Silver string closely followed by Co-focus..
mixedmedia
Professional
Great testing lineup. Looking forward to it.
The Big Kahuna
Hall of Fame
I have some L-TEC to test, as well. I just can't get any of my local stringers to take the extra time to install it with the JET method. Objectively, I see their point - why take 3 times longer to string a racquet on a old-fashioned machine they would have to buy for the same pay for that one in a 100 player who has this string?
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JT_2eighty
Hall of Fame
I really think if you want to compare this new LTec string to your other cross strings, just have it strung like any other poly. If the string requires a unique installation method to be worthwhile, then I don't really see that as a "good" feature of a string.
Anyways, it's what I'm going to do. I'm not saying there couldn't be benefits to the much-hyped JET method, mini-JET whatever... but honestly, the string should speak for itself. Also, for those who do employ or espouse the JET method, then how about some comparisons for JET'd Weisscannon or MSV stringjobs? Then we can really get a true apples to apples going on. Without that, it's introducing too many variables for a true comparison in my eyes.
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mixedmedia
Professional
You've got the right idea, JT_2eighty! Only one variable at a time.
Posture Guy
Professional
Just a quick note. As my signature says, my reference tension is 58/54 on this hybrid. The Co Focus packaging recommends to not string crosses above 48. So I strung a stick up at 52/48, a 6 lb drop. I was really concerned that I was going to lose control with this setup but I hit last night and it was fine. Seemed like the control was honestly about the same. There was no question I was generating more spin, and maybe flat shots were a bit harder to keep from going long, but in general I think this may be my new tension.
Gonna try it tomorrow with a different hitting partner with a different style of play, will see how it performs there. If it's still good, then I'm going to make that shift.
Gonna try it tomorrow with a different hitting partner with a different style of play, will see how it performs there. If it's still good, then I'm going to make that shift.
The Big Kahuna
Hall of Fame
And you do! At 52# the MSV plays totally differently. I found it to be much more "springy" and have much less pocketing and control.
Posture Guy
Professional
Big kahuna....so you're saying that when you strung Co Focus at 52 as opposed to 48 you felt a loss of control? Interesting.
So the improved performance of the poly at the reduced tension offsets the control reduction of the gut at the reduced tension. It's interesting to play with all these variables, and sometimes a bit maddening, too. But I think I might just have my new combo.
Until I test for the next one, lol! Haven't tried any of the premium guts since I started playing again last August, so that's the next test, to see if I'm genuinely happy with Classic or does it feel and perform better with Prince or Wilson nat gut.
So the improved performance of the poly at the reduced tension offsets the control reduction of the gut at the reduced tension. It's interesting to play with all these variables, and sometimes a bit maddening, too. But I think I might just have my new combo.
Until I test for the next one, lol! Haven't tried any of the premium guts since I started playing again last August, so that's the next test, to see if I'm genuinely happy with Classic or does it feel and perform better with Prince or Wilson nat gut.
mixedmedia
Professional
It certainly is fun and maddening!
Personally, I wouldn't bother with the premium guts, but that's just for cost reasons.
Personally, I wouldn't bother with the premium guts, but that's just for cost reasons.
Posture Guy
Professional
Re the costs of premium gut, for me, I'm not a string breaker. I can get 16-20 hours out of a set without much issue, sometimes more. So if one of the premium guts gives me significantly better feel and performance, that's a cost difference I might be willing to absorb. That's like, what, maybe $16 in total difference between Classic and one of those guts? So that's $8 a string job in added cost, and if I can play 10 times with it, that's less than an extra buck a match. If that gives me significant benefits commensurate with that cost difference, I'd switch.
mixedmedia
Professional
True, true. If I get get a setup to last 20 hours comfortably, then I'd probably try some out too (by some, I mean I'd probably just test Wilson, old VS if I can find it, and new VS).
I find that true with most polys to be honest. I think 51-55 is a range where polys have the most trampolining. Above that it starts to get more control for flat hitters, but feels terrible imo. Below that range, in the mid-upper 40s is imo the sweet spot for polys for what they do best. Maximum control derived from maximum spin.
Smasher08
Legend
Alright, I admit it: I caved. I put another 3 string savers in.
I've gotten attached to this stringjob and I want to see it break the 40 hour mark.
Update - 37.5 hours (set 1)
The spin just slowly keeps on getting nicer and nicer. The touch and feel is gradually eroding with each additional string saver, but as long as you're not hitting tons of drop shots and touch volleys, I think it's fine.
Interestingly, the pace of the fraying isn't nearly the same as the notching.
For a string job that was done back in August, I think the longevity is nothing short of fantastic.
I've gotten attached to this stringjob and I want to see it break the 40 hour mark.
Update - 37.5 hours (set 1)
The spin just slowly keeps on getting nicer and nicer. The touch and feel is gradually eroding with each additional string saver, but as long as you're not hitting tons of drop shots and touch volleys, I think it's fine.
Interestingly, the pace of the fraying isn't nearly the same as the notching.
For a string job that was done back in August, I think the longevity is nothing short of fantastic.
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