Will men's tennis ever be dominated by Americans again?

T

Tammo

Banned
I would say that men's tennis is primarily ruled by the Eropeans pretty much since 04' ish. Americans haven't really had much success with Roddick, but now have many younger players in the top 200. Players like Harrison, Young and Sock have already had fairly decent starts to their careers. But I just don't imagine any of those 3 winning a slam. One exception may be Denis Kudla who is 18 and ranked 185. I would like to learn more about him and see some more matches of his in the future.


Another thing is maybe the American coaches are just not as good. I used to get the feeling that American players were just a serve and FH. Is the European teaching system better than the American way?
 
T

Tammo

Banned
Xizel

^^ Yeah, Agassi had a BH and Sampras had volleys. They weren't just the serve and FH, and they are multiple GS winners.
 
Bender

Bender

G.O.A.T.
Tammo said:
Xizel

^^ Yeah, Agassi had a BH and Sampras had volleys. They weren't just the serve and FH, and they are multiple GS winners.
Click to expand...

BHs? Volleys? This is an outrageous suggestion to them American coaches, who follow the traditional serve and...forehand...strategy to win on all four surfaces!
 
TennisLovaLova

TennisLovaLova

Hall of Fame
Maybe the average level in US junior tennis is low.
I've seen many videos posted by members of this forum with 5.0 level and most of the time I find them very weak for the ranking they pretend to be...

The only way for the US to dominate tennis again is to start bombing other countries and destroy their tennis facilities :D
 
J

joeri888

G.O.A.T.
I certainly hope not.
An american at the top would be fine, but not like the mid ninetees, when there were 4 in the top 5 or something, with Sampras, Agassi, Chang, Courier, Martin etc.
 
SLD76

SLD76

G.O.A.T.
didnt we hash this out in a thread last week?

in summary:

tennis isnt as popular in the US as say basketball, football, baseball, or golf.

Its an expensive sport to play with an ever higher bar of pro success.

we lose really good athletes to other more popular and easier to play( easier to play meaning less expensive for training) sports.

with the slowing of the courts at the pro level, and about 90% of the courts in the states being hard, the US has ignored training on clay( with emphasis on footwork, conditioning and point construction) to our peril.


basically, we either need to build more clay courts or speed up international surfaces again.
 
Rock Strongo

Rock Strongo

Legend
A more relevant question would be whether Sweden will ever be a force to be reckoned with again...
 
Last edited:
M

MDCCLXXVI

Rookie
A lot of the top athletic talent (coaches and athletes) are lured toward the more culturally acceptable sports of football, rugby and basketball.
 
Hood_Man

Hood_Man

G.O.A.T.
It'll probably go in cycles. Right now it seems to be Spain, France and Serbia that are the big tennis nations, but even Great Britain has some interesting talent coming up.

American tennis will come back to the big glory days, just not for a while probably.
 
kishnabe

kishnabe

Talk Tennis Guru
I would hope not....Rather see Americians winning slam again but not being the number dominant player.
 
Y

y12.pats

Rookie
I played in a juniors U16 this past summer, I was seeded 2 in the tourney. That tournament, there was a visiting Spanish camp (from Spain) who enrolled and played. Every seed who played a spanish kid lost. One of them beat me bad in the finals. I asked him if he was really good in Spain… he said that this was the first tournament he had ever won. Tells you how much higher the competition is in Spain than here.
 
T

Tcbtennis

Hall of Fame
y12.pats said:
I played in a juniors U16 this past summer, I was seeded 2 in the tourney. That tournament, there was a visiting Spanish camp (from Spain) who enrolled and played. Every seed who played a spanish kid lost. One of them beat me bad in the finals. I asked him if he was really good in Spain… he said that this was the first tournament he had ever won. Tells you how much higher the competition is in Spain than here.
Click to expand...

Are you able to pinpoint what were the differences between you and him that caused him to be the better player? There could be lots of reasons. Some as simple as he trains more than you do. Or did you see more fundamental things such as better footwork, better point construction, or just more powerful? I would only imagine that if a group of Spanish tennis juniors cross the ocean to play in the U.S. they must be a higher level of player than your average tennis junior.
 
C

citybert

Hall of Fame
Why would any of the elite athletes in the US choose to excel in tennis? There are tons of other sports that are probably more beneficial to them financially. Sad but true since tennis is such a great sport.

Sorry for the minor highjack but do people think tennis or soccer will produce top level global talent first in the US?
 
THUNDERVOLLEY

THUNDERVOLLEY

G.O.A.T.
Tammo said:
Will men's tennis ever be dominated by Americans again??
Click to expand...

Not as long as the majority of men play baseline-obsessed, tactics-free tennis, behave as though they are completely ignorant of the net, and fools like Patrick McEnroe wanting to train juniors on clay based on "the success of the Spanish players" (like its an entire generation of majors winners).
 
cork_screw

cork_screw

Hall of Fame
Will men's tennis ever be dominated by Americans again?

The frame of mind from the quote from above shows me lack of experience in the real world. When you get older, and become more wise, you'll find a few things out. One of them is that NOTHING lasts forever, good or bad. Just because it seems dire or heavenly now doesn't mean it's going to persist that way. The same rule applies to American tennis. Just because we don't have a crop of guys now makes it seem that we'll never have one ever? Are you insane? The top countries that breed players to become grandslam champs are Americans. It's real tunnel vision to think that something that is current no matter how bad it is will stay that way. I'm sure people never thought China would rival the US as a super power back in the 60's when they were plotting rice paddies with ox carts, people feared that we would never come out of this recession just last year and already things are looking much different than a year ago. People tend to exaggerate what they fear now will become a permanent fixture in the future and others are naive to think that good things will last forever and seem to never evolve with the times to keep that dream hopeful. So I don't see how you could think something that has only been a drought for maybe 6-7 years is going to last. Things change all the time no matter if we like it or don't. Most pertinent, it comes unexpectedly. I'm sure Serbia never thought they would have a number 1 tennis player in the mens side.

Tammo said:
I would say that men's tennis is primarily ruled by the Eropeans pretty much since 04' ish. Americans haven't really had much success with Roddick, but now have many younger players in the top 200. Players like Harrison, Young and Sock have already had fairly decent starts to their careers. But I just don't imagine any of those 3 winning a slam. One exception may be Denis Kudla who is 18 and ranked 185. I would like to learn more about him and see some more matches of his in the future.


Another thing is maybe the American coaches are just not as good. I used to get the feeling that American players were just a serve and FH. Is the European teaching system better than the American way?
Click to expand...
 
Last edited:
B

BevelDevil

Hall of Fame
y12.pats said:
I played in a juniors U16 this past summer, I was seeded 2 in the tourney. That tournament, there was a visiting Spanish camp (from Spain) who enrolled and played. Every seed who played a spanish kid lost. One of them beat me bad in the finals. I asked him if he was really good in Spain… he said that this was the first tournament he had ever won. Tells you how much higher the competition is in Spain than here.
Click to expand...

@y12.pats

Just curious, were there many 1hbhs among the Spaniards?
 
J

joeri888

G.O.A.T.
citybert said:
Why would any of the elite athletes in the US choose to excel in tennis? There are tons of other sports that are probably more beneficial to them financially. Sad but true since tennis is such a great sport.

Sorry for the minor highjack but do people think tennis or soccer will produce top level global talent first in the US?
Click to expand...

Soccer talent in America? Hell will probably freeze over first. Sure, you could have 1 or two really talented players, but since football is such a team sport, that's not really interesting. The chances of America winning another Davis Cup are infinitely higher than them ever winning the world cup.
 
SLD76

SLD76

G.O.A.T.
joeri888 said:
Soccer talent in America? Hell will probably freeze over first. Sure, you could have 1 or two really talented players, but since football is such a team sport, that's not really interesting. The chances of America winning another Davis Cup are infinitely higher than them ever winning the world cup.
Click to expand...

wot?


americans will never be good at soccer until there is real money it.

the money is abroad, but not in the US. We simply culturally as it stands now
are not inclined towards soccer.

Soccer is popular at the youth , hs and college levels, but the pro league is far far behind. Id say even way behind pro lacrosse or arena football.
 
P

Paul Murphy

Hall of Fame
Americans need to learn their craft on clay - it's the best surface on which to learn because of the need to construct points.
A big serve and a forehand gets it done pretty much on most hardcourt but not so on dirt.
That's why young Aussie players are now being sent to an academy in Spain (belatedly) to spend time there.
That's why Andy Murray sensibly spent his formative years on the stuff in Spain.
 
stringertom

stringertom

Bionic Poster
Paul Murphy said:
Americans need to learn their craft on clay - it's the best surface on which to learn because of the need to construct points.
A big serve and a forehand gets it done pretty much on most hardcourt but not so on dirt.
That's why young Aussie players are now being sent to an academy in Spain (belatedly) to spend time there.
That's why Andy Murray sensibly spent his formative years on the stuff in Spain.
Click to expand...

Wasn't Higuerads hired several years ago with the implied mission to do just this for US tennis?
 
J

joeri888

G.O.A.T.
SLD76 said:
wot?


americans will never be good at soccer until there is real money it.

the money is abroad, but not in the US. We simply culturally as it stands now
are not inclined towards soccer.

Soccer is popular at the youth , hs and college levels, but the pro league is far far behind. Id say even way behind pro lacrosse or arena football.
Click to expand...

It's not about money, it's about knowledge and methodology and culture. it will take centuries to get enough knowledge to the states to train little kids the right way both technically and tactically from 4 years old (that's the age children in europe usually start playing) until they are professionals. The people with the knowledge and skills to do this, will not be interested as long as the first team of those clubs don't play any role of importance in football worldwide.

Football will become more popular, of course it will, it's popular all over the world and american people arent that different, but it will take a lot of time to reach any decent level
 
Murrayalmagrofan

Murrayalmagrofan

Semi-Pro
Xizel said:
A forehand and a serve. That's American tennis. Still lacking a lot, son.
Click to expand...
True...that pretty much describes all of the current top American players with the exception of Mardy Fish (looking at players in the top 50).

Ryan Harrison who is still developing as a player, also bucks this trend. He has a solid backhand and a decent net game. Between him, Donald Young & Jack Sock, I expect to see Ryan go the farthest. He's a future top 10/top 5 player imho.
 
M

magnut

Hall of Fame
Yes we will dominate American tennis for many years to come. We are just in a dry spell. Once professional tennis officially implements quick start equipment no other country will be able to compete with us on smaller courts with softer and lighter balls. We just have to be persistent and remind everyone in the industry that the future of tennis is quick start. Thats the first major step.

After that happens there is another major hurdle to be implemented. I have talked to some of the higher ups in the USTA and they have told me some of the long term plans after quick start is implemented at the professional level. I am not really supposed to talk about it a whole lot but I can give out some of the basics to it.
 
JRstriker12

JRstriker12

Hall of Fame
I have to wonder if any particular country will dominate tennis again?

With the game gaining popularity world wide and some great players coming out of countries that aren't traditionally tennis power houses, I don't think any single country will have a lock on game.

I think you also have to define dominate. For example, Spain and Serbia have two players in the top 10, but the top 3-4 players are so strong, it seems like no one else below that has a chance at winning a slam or getting to #1.
 
Evan77

Evan77

Banned
tennis is such an individual sport. why does it really matter where players are coming from. I'm sure that some talented guy will eventually show up from the states but it's not a big deal.
 
JRstriker12

JRstriker12

Hall of Fame
SLD76 said:
wot?


americans will never be good at soccer until there is real money it.

the money is abroad, but not in the US. We simply culturally as it stands now
are not inclined towards soccer.

Soccer is popular at the youth , hs and college levels, but the pro league is far far behind. Id say even way behind pro lacrosse or arena football.
Click to expand...

Sorry to side track - but I think you have underestimated the growth of soccer in the US. MLS is way ahead of MLL and Arena Football.

NOTE: I'm not dissing MLL and AFL - I'm all for the appreciation of any type of sport, but MLS has grown quite a bit.

MLS is not up there with the NFL, NBA, NHL or NASCAR but it's doing Ok for example:

Total attendance for MLS in 2011 was more than 5.5 million with an Average of nearly 18,000 per game - http://www.sbnation.com/soccer/2011/10/24/2511576/mls-attendance-up-2011-major-league-soccer

Total attendance for MLL in 2011 was about 231,000 with an ave. of about 6,500 (not too bad) http://www.pointstreak.com/prostats/attendance.html?leagueid=323&seasonid=6756

Total attendance for AFL was about 1.3 million in 2011 - they don't list an over-all average and I don't have time to calculate one - but I'll guess it's about 8000-10,000 per game based on the chart: http://www.arenafan.com/history/?page=yearly&fpage=attendance&year=2011&histleague=1

MLL will only have 6 games on ESPN this year with the rest shown only online streaming ESPN 3 and 14 games on CBS.

As far as I can tell, AFL is mostly broadcast on the NFL Network with some games being picked up by local broadcasters.

While MLS just inked a 3-year $10 million deal with NBC/NBC sports to broadcast soccer games, covering 45 games, and also has an $8.5 million deal with ESPN to broadcast 20 games plus the MLS all-star game and Final.
http://goal.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/08/10/m-l-s-and-nbc-sports-announce-new-tv-deal/

Many of the MLS have their own soccer specific stadiums built that they own. for example:
http://www.homedepotcenter.com/
http://www.redbullarena.us/arena/default.aspx

As far as I can tell most MLL teams are playing at mostly university stadiums. At one time one of the MLL teams played at the stadium and owned by the MLS's Columbus Crew.

Not hating. Hope MLL keeps growing. Lacrosse is a good sport.
 
SLD76

SLD76

G.O.A.T.
JRstriker12 said:
Sorry to side track - but I think you have underestimated the growth of soccer in the US. MLS is way ahead of MLL and Arena Football.

NOTE: I'm not dissing MLL and AFL - I'm all for the appreciation of any type of sport, but MLS has grown quite a bit.

MLS is not up there with the NFL, NBA, NHL or NASCAR but it's doing Ok for example:

Total attendance for MLS in 2011 was more than 5.5 million with an Average of nearly 18,000 per game - http://www.sbnation.com/soccer/2011/10/24/2511576/mls-attendance-up-2011-major-league-soccer

Total attendance for MLL in 2011 was about 231,000 with an ave. of about 6,500 (not too bad) http://www.pointstreak.com/prostats/attendance.html?leagueid=323&seasonid=6756

Total attendance for AFL was about 1.3 million in 2011 - they don't list an over-all average and I don't have time to calculate one - but I'll guess it's about 8000-10,000 per game based on the chart: http://www.arenafan.com/history/?page=yearly&fpage=attendance&year=2011&histleague=1

MLL will only have 6 games on ESPN this year with the rest shown only online streaming ESPN 3 and 14 games on CBS.

As far as I can tell, AFL is mostly broadcast on the NFL Network with some games being picked up by local broadcasters.

While MLS just inked a 3-year $10 million deal with NBC/NBC sports to broadcast soccer games, covering 45 games, and also has an $8.5 million deal with ESPN to broadcast 20 games plus the MLS all-star game and Final.
http://goal.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/08/10/m-l-s-and-nbc-sports-announce-new-tv-deal/

Many of the MLS have their own soccer specific stadiums built that they own. for example:
http://www.homedepotcenter.com/
http://www.redbullarena.us/arena/default.aspx

As far as I can tell most MLL teams are playing at mostly university stadiums. At one time one of the MLL teams played at the stadium and owned by the MLS's Columbus Crew.

Not hating. Hope MLL keeps growing. Lacrosse is a good sport.
Click to expand...

Fair enough if I am wrong..the point still stands.

Soccer, as a pro sport, is still light years behind football, basketball, baseball and hockey.

And until that changes, americans wont make too much of a dent internationally.
 
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