Pacific Classic 1.25 x MSV Co-Focus 1.18

Smasher08 said:

About the only reason I can think of is if someone plays on clay. And even then I'd suggest trying 16L before 16.

Speaking of 30-50 hours, after this morning I'm at 49.5.

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Unreal!! My 2.5hrs last night was on clay and zero issues. 16hr setup has about 8 or 9 stingsavers. Love the "hairy" strings as you called them

Kcraig said:

Unreal!! My 2.5hrs last night was on clay and zero issues. 16hr setup has about 8 or 9 stingsavers. Love the "hairy" strings as you called them

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Hairy strings bother me more than string movement.

mikeler said:

Hairy strings bother me more than string movement.

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I have some nail clippers in the bag for any "trimming" that needs to take place. :twisted: ALSO--There is ZERO string movement--Yaaaaaayyyyy!

mikeler said:

Hairy strings bother me more than string movement.

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no way! I hate string movement. Hairs just add bite to the ball.

polytheist said:

Hairs just add bite to the ball.

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I totally think they've gotta increase the string to ball friction. Even if not by much.

And I'm also rockin' them as a badge of honour

Kcraig said:

I have some nail clippers in the bag for any "trimming" that needs to take place. :twisted: ALSO--There is ZERO string movement--Yaaaaaayyyyy!

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You keep those in your bag or your purse?

mikeler said:

You keep those in your bag or your purse?

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Its not a purse its a SATCHEL!!:evil: Indiana Jones had one too--Sheeeesh!!!!!!!!

pacific classic 1.25 x msv c0-focus 1.18 does it make a cracking sound when you hit the ball? if so, i met try this set up for my apdgt+ racquet. Thanks!

Well the party finally ended yesterday at the 18-20 hour mark on the Pacific Classic x CoFocus 1.23 setup on a FH return that exploded 2 mains. Ironically I had just noticed a weird looking fray/unwrapping a few shots before and should have installed a stringsaver, but didn't. All in all very very impressed with the setup. It gets 2-3x the string life as a regular multi setup BUT the playability is what is so so strong. It was playing awesome right up until the explosion took place--which ironically was my best return all day!

Now off to give the 1.18 cross a thorough run to compare. Will keep posted. Thanks

Sorry to hear that.

BTW I almost forgot to mention that my last time out I brought with me my old i.PM strung with Sonic Pro 1.20 mains and RIP Control 1.20 crosses. At the time I had it strung I thought it was pretty spinny albeit a touch too stiff.

In all honesty, the spin from my current setup blows it away. Fresh off the stringing machine might be different, but certainly after 45+ hours it's not even close. Add to that the greater power, feel and arm-friendliness, and that's why I doubt I'll ever go back to poly mains.

mixedmedia said:

Well, that could be an excuse. It'd be interesting to see how the setups compare when just changing the gut diameter.

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I think the one scenario I'd definitely use it in would be while testing Heptatwist crosses. Maybe my set of 16L mains too.

Well the Co-Focus 1.18 finally shipped and arrived two days ago. I strung it up Monday with Wilson Nat Gut in the mains @ 54/52.

Tension held well only dropping 3% overnight and 7.7% after two hours play. This matches up favorably with my usual set up.

It felt a bit tight and stiff for about 30 minutes but after that break in period it became fabulous. This is without doubt the best combo I've tried in my search to replace supersense.

Control, crisp, touch, pocketing, and access to power were all there. The guys I was playing all stated my groundies and serve all had more pace and bite the usual. I could literally see my second serve kicking up with much more spin. Particularly volleys were crisp and easy to control.

After two hours I'm completely impressed. We'll see what happens Friday when I'll put at least 2-3 more hours on it.

I know it was pointed out there is a miss-weave on the top but did anyone notice the three piece stringing? Counting from the left at 9t I see 2 knots plus three more.

Irvin said:

I know it was pointed out there is a miss-weave on the top but did anyone notice the three piece stringing? Counting from the left at 9t I see 2 knots plus three more.

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Not to worry, it's just an optical illusion. There's only 3 knots in the bottom of the hoop, and all are in the correct holes.

It's definitely a bad stringing job, but at least the stringer was decent enough not to charge me for it. That said, it's played pretty awesome with its extra spin!

EDIT: btw after this afternoon I'm up to 51.75 hours!

Smasher08 said:

Not to worry, it's just an optical illusion. There's only 3 knots in the bottom of the hoop, and all are in the correct holes.

It's definitely a bad stringing job, but at least the stringer was decent enough not to charge me for it. That said, it's played pretty awesome with its extra spin!

EDIT: btw after this afternoon I'm up to 51.75 hours!

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smasher, what ntrp rating are you and how would you describe your game style?

jk175d said:

smasher, what ntrp rating are you and how would you describe your game style?

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5.0 aggressive all-courter. World class at applying string savers

Well I seem to have reached that "magical" mark on the Classic 16L x 1.18 CoFocus cross everyone has commented really kicked in for me last night which is at the 3hr mark. The spin and pop was unreal! Several balls all thought were going to be long dropped in by a foot or so! Spin and flat serves were awesome--hit several aces--especially down the T slicers. Nasty.

Now have a total of 6hrs on the job and zero fraying, notching and no stringsavers to date. Went with the neon yellow 1.18 cross and looks pretty cool!!:twisted:

Smasher08 said:

5.0 aggressive all-courter. World class at applying string savers

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the reason I ask is I am curious how you aren't bothered by the loss of crispness that comes with letting the poly go that long. I find, as always with dead poly, that I lose a feel for the ball particularly with serving and aggresive putaway shots. If you were a 3.5 I'd understand, but as a 5.0 surely you notice the decline?

Co-Focus does get saggy around 10-15 hours and you can't rip the same shots and still keep them in. Sure you can still play on it without killing your arm, but why would you want to continue playing with a saggy setup when you can put fresh co-focus crosses in!

jk175d said:

the reason I ask is I am curious how you aren't bothered by the loss of crispness that comes with letting the poly go that long. I find, as always with dead poly, that I lose a feel for the ball particularly with serving and aggresive putaway shots. If you were a 3.5 I'd understand, but as a 5.0 surely you notice the decline?

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I think this is due to the fact that the cross string only account for about 20% of the feel of the stringbed, so all the poly is really doing is providing a nice smooth rail for the gut to slide over and then snap back into place. The poly provides less friction for the gut to glide over than any other string made (including gut itself), and the gut is the most playable, resilient, comfortable, and powerful string available - so in fact, you are simply enhancing and improving the durability and the spin potential of the gut.

From my experience, nothing compares to a Gut / Poly blend for this reason.

polytheist said:

Co-Focus does get saggy around 10-15 hours and you can't rip the same shots and still keep them in. Sure you can still play on it without killing your arm, but why would you want to continue playing with a saggy setup when you can put fresh co-focus crosses in!

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I don't see the need to swap out the poly, to be honest (for all the reasons stated above) - in fact, that can do more harm than good for your frame in doing so. Personally, the "dead" poly plays pretty darn good after 15-20 hours when it softens up a bit and the gut starts to fray. That's just me though.

SMASHER, you may want to weigh in here. Do you swap out your poly?

The Big Kahuna said:

I think this is due to the fact that the cross string only account for about 20% of the feel of the stringbed, so all the poly is really doing is providing a nice smooth rail for the gut to slide over and then snap back into place. The poly provides less friction for the gut to glide over than any other string made (including gut itself), and the gut is the most playable, resilient, comfortable, and powerful string available - so in fact, you are simply enhancing and improving the durability and the spin potential of the gut.

From my experience, nothing compares to a Gut / Poly blend for this reason.

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I agree with your conclusion about gut/poly, and that the majority of the feel/performance of the stringbed comes from the mains. But the difference between fresh and dead poly is still quite apparent and a factor in this setup imo. Enough so that changing out the poly cross after 15-20 hrs makes a significant improvement. That's why I don't understand how an advanced player wouldn't be bothered by the 40+ hr dead poly. But to each his own I guess.

The Big Kahuna said:

I don't see the need to swap out the poly, to be honest (for all the reasons stated above) - in fact, that can do more harm than good for your frame in doing so. Personally, the "dead" poly plays pretty darn good after 15-20 hours when it softens up a bit and the gut starts to fray. That's just me though.

SMASHER, you may want to weigh in here. Do you swap out your poly?

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I guess some value crisp feel more than others. If crisp isn't something you want than I agree that letting it go 30-40 hrs is fine and than in most other aspects the strings still play fine. I just play so much better when I get that crisp feedback and feel from hitting the ball.

jk175d said:

the reason I ask is I am curious how you aren't bothered by the loss of crispness that comes with letting the poly go that long. I find, as always with dead poly, that I lose a feel for the ball particularly with serving and aggresive putaway shots. If you were a 3.5 I'd understand, but as a 5.0 surely you notice the decline?

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Of course, and I think a distinction should be made between dead poly and dying poly. Dying I hate, dead I actually find manageable. Go figure.

That said, it's difficult for me to ascertain the effect that the string savers have on the overall feel, since they tend to go in after the dying has begun. But like Big Kahuna said, the predominant feel and playing characteristics of a stringjob tend to come from the mains.

polytheist said:

Co-Focus does get saggy around 10-15 hours and you can't rip the same shots and still keep them in. Sure you can still play on it without killing your arm, but why would you want to continue playing with a saggy setup when you can put fresh co-focus crosses in!

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I think you're mixing up the performance of poly mains with the performance of the crosses in a gut-copoly hybrid. I've had absolutely no problem with ripping winners and keeping them in. No arm issues whatsoever -- quite the opposite of what happened when I used to use poly mains. And if you really think about it, the "saggier" the crosses get, the less friction there will be with the mains, meaning more spin.

And as luck would have it, by this time next week I'll be unboxing a Gamma X-6 which I bought with a view to trying restringing crosses. But I've already received a thoughtful PM from a very experienced stringer, basically cautioning me against this. He made some very good points -- the top one being that the friction of restringing may actually decrease the longevity of the gut mains. So we'll see if I eventually try it -- caveat restringer I guess.

jk175d said:

I don't understand how an advanced player wouldn't be bothered by the 40+ hr dead poly. But to each his own I guess.

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I find that the mains seem to make up for it -- it doesn't seem to bother me. But like you said, maybe that's just me. Other people could certainly value different attributes of a stringjob. That's why there's hundreds of different strings out there.

jk175d said:

I guess some value crisp feel more than others. If crisp isn't something you want than I agree that letting it go 30-40 hrs is fine and than in most other aspects the strings still play fine. I just play so much better when I get that crisp feedback and feel from hitting the ball.

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If you want me to put my finger on why I don't mind, I can boil it down to one word: spin. It really does get better and better as the stringjob ages. And for me, I'll gladly take that trade-off.

To be fair, as I mentioned before, the feeling overall has definitely changed and degraded, and it now feels like cheap gut. But for me, the spin it produces more than makes up for it.

smasher I see where you're coming from. Obviously the spin outweighs everything else for you. I guess I personally haven't found the spin to be worlds better at 20, 30, 40+ hrs than at the start (which on the EXO 3 Tour is already a lot). The same strings feel dramatically different on an EXO 3 Tour than other frames in my experience. Maybe on your frames the spin increase is more apparent, and on the EXO the loss of crispness is more apparent.

I wouldn't worry about problems with restringing the crosses. For every stringer who says don't do it you'll find one who says go ahead. I've heard many people on this board say they do it with no problem (myself included) and the people who say don't do it always say it "could" cause a problem, or they've "heard" or "read" not to do it. I haven't actually ever seen anybody say they caused their racquet harm by restringing the crosses.

If you like the feel of old poly over new poly in crosses with gut mains I don't know why you'd bother. But changing out dead poly crosses with gut mains does restore your racquet to freshly strung feel if that's what one wants.

jk175d said:

I agree with your conclusion about gut/poly, and that the majority of the feel/performance of the stringbed comes from the mains. But the difference between fresh and dead poly is still quite apparent and a factor in this setup imo. Enough so that changing out the poly cross after 15-20 hrs makes a significant improvement. That's why I don't understand how an advanced player wouldn't be bothered by the 40+ hr dead poly. But to each his own I guess.

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I think it depends on the poly too.

"Dead" CFocus doesn't bother me, it just gets more springy.

Dead Focus Hex does bother my arm. But dead or fresh I'm getting totally hooked on VS/Focus Hex. It doesn't last nearly as long as VS/CoFocus, not even close! But I enjoy the lower power. Spin is roughly the same with a tiny edge to CoFocus in inherent spin potential but if you can hit extreme spin Focis Hex's lower power lets you hit harder for more RHS and thus even more spin.

CoFocus 17 crosses at 52# was generating FAR more power for me than Focus Hex 18 crosses at 52# (this is all relative of course...what I call powerful some ALTA team mates absolutely hate as too low powered!)

There is no way dead cofocus crosses play anything like fresh. Depth control is just not there. If it doesn't bother you then it's a hell of a setup. Course it's a great setup even if you only like it for 10-15 hours.

polytheist said:

There is no way dead cofocus crosses play anything like fresh. Depth control is just not there. If it doesn't bother you then it's a hell of a setup. Course it's a great setup even if you only like it for 10-15 hours.

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yeah, after hitting again today I have to agree. I've been trying to stay with it to give it time to find the magic but after 15-20 hrs the crosses are just dead and there is no amazing spin effect going on. I keep having to switch back to my other frame which I strung at the same time but haven't played as many hours with. It's got Wilson gut and Solino Outlast crosses. (a GREAT combo by the way). It still feels crisp. I'm going to cut the co-focus crosses out this afternoon. I love the Pacific/co-focus set up, but I just don't get the longevity out of the crosses that smasher talks about.

Gut/Poly

The Big Kahuna said:

I think this is due to the fact that the cross string only account for about 20% of the feel of the stringbed, so all the poly is really doing is providing a nice smooth rail for the gut to slide over and then snap back into place. The poly provides less friction for the gut to glide over than any other string made (including gut itself), and the gut is the most playable, resilient, comfortable, and powerful string available - so in fact, you are simply enhancing and improving the durability and the spin potential of the gut.

From my experience, nothing compares to a Gut / Poly blend for this reason.

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Big K- After reading all the praise you give to gut/poly hybird, I had to give it a try. I usually us Tornado/ syn. gut or multi for crosses. I understand a textured/twisted poly is not recommended as a cross( saw through the gut) just wanted to use to compare. I used Performaxx Classic mains(55lbs.) and Tornado crosses@52 lbs. in a Prestige Pro(YouTek). I was amazed @ the feel and the abundance of POWER I had on my strokes. The spin was equaly impressive. I feel I need to bump up the tension a bit to tame it down some? Big K- You string 52/48 gut poly...How do you control the ball with this low tension? Thanks....PS- Which Co-Focus do you use, do the color differences play the same?

Imo the prestigw pro needs thw gut higher to tame it, or use a lower power poly cross like b5e and you can stay around that tension or even lower.

Someone light a candle.





Update - 55.25-ish hours (Set 1)

It gave up the ghost while I was swinging on a DTL forehand. Definitely the best stringjob I ever played with, misweaves and all. The spin was phenomenal, and the power, feel and touch were PDG too -- all things considered.

Set 2 now has 30 hours logged on it -- and only 2 additional stringsavers have been needed. So even though it's not as spinny as the miswoven set, I reckon it ought to surpass its longevity by a fair bit.

Hotrocks said:

Big K- After reading all the praise you give to gut/poly hybird, I had to give it a try. I usually us Tornado/ syn. gut or multi for crosses. I understand a textured/twisted poly is not recommended as a cross( saw through the gut) just wanted to use to compare. I used Performaxx Classic mains(55lbs.) and Tornado crosses@52 lbs. in a Prestige Pro(YouTek). I was amazed @ the feel and the abundance of POWER I had on my strokes. The spin was equaly impressive. I feel I need to bump up the tension a bit to tame it down some? Big K- You string 52/48 gut poly...How do you control the ball with this low tension? Thanks....PS- Which Co-Focus do you use, do the color differences play the same?

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you can tone down the power by going either direction with the poly cross. the gut is fine at 55. But Tornado, like many copolys, is at its most trampoliney in the 50-54 range. If you drop the crosses to 48 you will tame the power and might really like the softness and dwelltime and increased spin you'll get. Or if you don't mind a stiffer feel jack up the crosses to 56-57. I'd give the lower a try first.

Wow, I'd never play 55 hours without a restring, but I like the idea of misweaving to increase spin! Hmmmm....

Wuppy said:

Wow, I'd never play 55 hours without a restring, but I like the idea of misweaving to increase spin! Hmmmm....

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Lol well one of the things I wanted to determine from this playtest was the longevity/durability. The result is that if you're willing to use stringsavers and can tolerate dying/dead copoly crosses, the durability can be outstanding -- especially considering that this setup has 17g mains!

12 Hour Update

Now have about 12hours on my Pacific Classic 16L/CoFocus 1.18 52/48# setup after playing about 3.5 hrs of 4.5 dubs last night on clay. This setup seems to be doing much better at this point than the previous 1.23 cross setup. There is little to zero fraying and NO stringsavers installed. The 1.23 setup had atleast 6 stringsavers at this same point and there was some pretty good fraying/notching.

As Smasher commented on, the feel and spin gets better and better each time!! Will keep playing it and keep all posted--

Kcraig said:

Now have about 12hours on my Pacific Classic 16L/CoFocus 1.18 52/48# setup after playing about 3.5 hrs of 4.5 dubs last night on clay. This setup seems to be doing much better at this point than the previous 1.23 cross setup. There is little to zero fraying and NO stringsavers installed. The 1.23 setup had atleast 6 stringsavers at this same point and there was some pretty good fraying/notching.

As Smasher commented on, the feel and spin gets better and better each time!! Will keep playing it and keep all posted--

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K, what is your setup? Racquet 16X18/18X20 and tensions?
Thanks

wao said:

K, what is your setup? Racquet 16X18/18X20 and tensions?
Thanks

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Prince EXO3 tour 16x18. 52/48#

jk175d said:

yeah, after hitting again today I have to agree. I've been trying to stay with it to give it time to find the magic but after 15-20 hrs the crosses are just dead and there is no amazing spin effect going on. I keep having to switch back to my other frame which I strung at the same time but haven't played as many hours with. It's got Wilson gut and Solino Outlast crosses. (a GREAT combo by the way). It still feels crisp. I'm going to cut the co-focus crosses out this afternoon. I love the Pacific/co-focus set up, but I just don't get the longevity out of the crosses that smasher talks about.

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Is it possible that the extremely large gap in tension between your gut and poly may be part of the reason your results differ so much from mine and from SMASHER? Nine pounds between the mains and crosses is about double the amount most stringers and stringing experts recommend (10% being most recommended). Perhaps because you are starting with you poly 10% lower than anyone else you are losing the crispness in your poly twice as fast? By the time I have played 20 hours, my tension in the Co-Focus might be down to 44-42 lbs, while you are down perhaps to 36 lbs by then.

Hotrocks said:

Big K- After reading all the praise you give to gut/poly hybird, I had to give it a try. I usually us Tornado/ syn. gut or multi for crosses. I understand a textured/twisted poly is not recommended as a cross( saw through the gut) just wanted to use to compare. I used Performaxx Classic mains(55lbs.) and Tornado crosses@52 lbs. in a Prestige Pro(YouTek). I was amazed @ the feel and the abundance of POWER I had on my strokes. The spin was equaly impressive. I feel I need to bump up the tension a bit to tame it down some? Big K- You string 52/48 gut poly...How do you control the ball with this low tension? Thanks....PS- Which Co-Focus do you use, do the color differences play the same?

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Interestingly enough, I used to play with a Youtek Prestige Pro strung with SP Tornando 17 in the mains at 48 lbs and Mantis Comfort multi in the crosses at 52 lbs. Of all the Poly / Multi hybrids I tried (and I tested for months) this was my favorite until I read SMASHER's thread on gut / poly hybrids and gave that a shot - and I never went back. NO COMPARISON.

I have better control, better feel, better power, better comfort, and better spin with the gut / poly combination. Your power, however, may depend on your frame. The YPP, for example, had more pop than my new racquet - the Prince EXO3 Tour 16 x 18. That is one of the reasons I switched. Going a couple of pounds higher may make some sense to tame the power, but I would not suggest going higher than 48 lbs. with the poly. That seems to be the magic number for optimum performance on the high end.

The Big Kahuna said:

Interestingly enough, I used to play with a Youtek Prestige Pro strung with SP Tornando 17 in the mains at 48 lbs and Mantis Comfort multi in the crosses at 52 lbs. Of all the Poly / Multi hybrids I tried (and I tested for months) this was my favorite until I read SMASHER's thread on gut / poly hybrids and gave that a shot - and I never went back. NO COMPARISON.

I have better control, better feel, better power, better comfort, and better spin with the gut / poly combination. Your power, however, may depend on your frame. The YPP, for example, had more pop than my new racquet - the Prince EXO3 Tour 16 x 18. That is one of the reasons I switched. Going a couple of pounds higher may make some sense to tame the power, but I would not suggest going higher than 48 lbs. with the poly. That seems to be the magic number for optimum performance on the high end.

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Big K- Thanks for your reply...I was hopeing to hear from you! I do remember you used the Prestige Pro, so I was wondering what your set up was? Currently using Performaxxx Classic gut with Tornado in the crosses @55/52. I know Tornado may cut into the gut, will see what happens. What was your set up in the Prestige, 52(gut)/ 48(poly)? Thanks....PS-These threads are full of very usefull information!

Hotrocks said:

Big K- Thanks for your reply...I was hopeing to hear from you! I do remember you used the Prestige Pro, so I was wondering what your set up was? Currently using Performaxxx Classic gut with Tornado in the crosses @55/52. I know Tornado may cut into the gut, will see what happens. What was your set up in the Prestige, 52(gut)/ 48(poly)? Thanks....PS-These threads are full of very usefull information!

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Actually, in my YPP I found that a bit crisper gut moderated the stiffer racquets power without having to increase the tension. I think you might like the KLIP Legend Tour 17g with the MSV Co-Focus 18g in that stick. I did. That was my set-up at 52/48 and I have since suggested that hybrid to 3-4 other YPP users, and they all loved it. The KLIP Legend Tour 17g is almost like a got/poly hybrid as it is coated, so it is a bit lower powered than Pacific (which I use now) and a bit crisper. It also lasts FOREVER.

KLIP Legend Tour is a very grade natural gut with tremendous playability - but costs only about $29. a set. Legend Tour offers 2 coatings providing a livelier feel with more durability. Very responsive string with the uniformly smooth feel of natural gut. 100% Australian. Comes in a non-traditional black color - which looks very nasty in the YPP with the light blue MSV Co-Focus.

Hotrocks said:

Big K- Thanks for your reply...I was hopeing to hear from you! I do remember you used the Prestige Pro, so I was wondering what your set up was? Currently using Performaxxx Classic gut with Tornado in the crosses @55/52. I know Tornado may cut into the gut, will see what happens. What was your set up in the Prestige, 52(gut)/ 48(poly)? Thanks....PS-These threads are full of very usefull information!

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Youtek Prestige Pro
Gut / Poly Hybrid
TESTING REPORTS:

• Strings: KLIP Legend Tour 17g mains / SP Tornado 17g crosses 52/48 (reference)

Poly Stringforum ranking: 98% satisfaction / PPR 1.93

Power: B

Control: B

Feel: B

Comfort: (+ ranked) B

Spin: (+ ranked) B+

Tension Stability: B (dropped from 56 to 45 RA in 3 hours)

OVERALL: B

Comments: Seemed like the ball tended to fly more that the Pro Line when tested head to head initially. Stringbed felt stiffer (harsher on the arm) and less powerful, as well. Strings did seem to break-in after 3 hours and offer more comfort, but still maintained control.



• Strings: KLIP Legend Tour 17g mains / Kirschbaum Pro Line II 17g crosses 52/48

Poly Stringforum ranking: 80% satisfaction / PPR 0.00 (NOTE: top rated Pro Line guage 1.15 @ 95% and 1.20 @ 90%)

Power: A

Control: B+

Feel: B+

Comfort: A-

Spin: B+

Tension Stability: B (dropped from 55 to 44 RA in 3 hours)

OVERALL: B+

Comments: Very comfortable and powerful compared to the Tornado reference set in initial comparison. Good spin and very good touch and feel. Large sweet spot and better pocketing compared to SP Tornado.



• Strings: KLIP Legend Tour 17g mains / MSV Co.-Focus 17L (1.18) crosses 52/48

Poly Stringforum ranking: 94% satisfaction / PPR 3.87 (ranked 8th overall)

Power: A-

Control: (+ ranked) A-

Feel: A

Comfort: (+ ranked) A

Spin: A+

Tension Stability:

OVERALL: A

Comments: Great ball pocketing and lively response. Very "Liquid" or "Airy" sensation when hitting ("Spaghetti Strings"?). Great bite on the ball - terrific spin potential. Slightly muted power (balls stayed in play). Larger sweet spot. Tons of dwell time.

After 6 hours of play with the MSV Co-Focus 18g hybrid @ 48 (with KLIP Legend Tour 17g mains @ 52) in my Head Youtek Prestige Pro I am ready to declare this playtest to an end. Every time I put down this racquet to try one with another poly (Weiss Silverstring or Kirshbaum Pro Line II) while they both feel very good, but I can't wait to get back to the MSV. The feel and ball pocketing is SO much better. I have never felt strings with so much comfort, spin, control, and feel. The power is dialed down just a tad from the other two strings, but more balls go IN the court as a result. My groundstrokes and serves are much more consistent than they have been with anything else to date and it feels like the racquet is simply an part of my arm - it is almost as if I am "throwing the ball" back. The sweet spot feels huge and the picketing is insane! I am totally addicted. It is really like a whole new game for me. Fantastic!



•Strings: KLIP Legend Tour 17g mains / Weiss CANNON Silverstring 17 (1.20) crosses 52/48

Poly Stringforum ranking: 95% satisfaction / PPR 2.73

Power: A-

Control: (+ ranked) A

Feel: A-

Comfort: (+ ranked) A-

Spin: B

Tension Stability: (+ ranked)

OVERALL: A-

Comments: Crisp, yet still very comfortable. Solid, with decent power, yet with good control.

The Big Kahuna said:

Is it possible that the extremely large gap in tension between your gut and poly may be part of the reason your results differ so much from mine and from SMASHER? Nine pounds between the mains and crosses is about double the amount most stringers and stringing experts recommend (10% being most recommended). Perhaps because you are starting with you poly 10% lower than anyone else you are losing the crispness in your poly twice as fast? By the time I have played 20 hours, my tension in the Co-Focus might be down to 44-42 lbs, while you are down perhaps to 36 lbs by then.

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it might be a factor. (actually I do 8lbs diff, not 9) But I don't string a racquet with the hope that only after 15 or 20 hours will it settle in and be great for another 30. I string up my racquets so they feel at their best the first time out. I do get a happy 2-4 weeks out of each string job so I can't complain. I don't think I will ever like 30-40 playing hours old gut/poly better than freshly strung no matter how spinny it gets so there's no point in trying to string towards that goal.

btw, I've been getting fantastic life and continued feel/playability out of my wilson gut/Solinco Outlast combo. I love me some fresh pacific/co-focus, but every time one of my stringjobs starts to die on me I come back to the outlast hybrid and it always feels great. I'm surprised at how little signs of wear there has been on the Wilson gut too after 3 weeks.

jk175d said:

it might be a factor. (actually I do 8lbs diff, not 9) But I don't string a racquet with the hope that only after 15 or 20 hours will it settle in and be great for another 30. I string up my racquets so they feel at their best the first time out. I do get a happy 2-4 weeks out of each string job so I can't complain. I don't think I will ever like 30-40 playing hours old gut/poly better than freshly strung no matter how spinny it gets so there's no point in trying to string towards that goal.

btw, I've been getting fantastic life and continued feel/playability out of my wilson gut/Solinco Outlast combo. I love me some fresh pacific/co-focus, but every time one of my stringjobs starts to die on me I come back to the outlast hybrid and it always feels great. I'm surprised at how little signs of wear there has been on the Wilson gut too after 3 weeks.

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I am assuming the OUTLAST is 17g. Have you tried going up in tension on the MSV Co-Focus 18g to compensate for the thinner gauge? It might be a factor.

The thinner the gauge, the more elastic it feels and the more feel - bumping the 18g a couple pounds over the 17g may promote better playability beyond the first 2-4 weeks. There is a relationship between tension and gauge.

The Big Kahuna said:

I am assuming the OUTLAST is 17g. Have you tried going up in tension on the MSV Co-Focus 18g to compensate for the thinner gauge? It might be a factor.

The thinner the gauge, the more elastic it feels and the more feel - bumping the 18g a couple pounds over the 17g may promote better playability beyond the first 2-4 weeks. There is a relationship between tension and gauge.

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not recently, but in the past I did go with higher tension on the cross. I actually have been using 17g co-focus the last few stringings, but I do now have a pack of the 18 which will go on next. I did use 18 in the past though. The thing is, and it goes back to stringing for the present not the future, I dropped the poly cross tension down to 45 because that was where I found the sweet spot in this combo. Again, I've got no interest in raising the tension to make the first 20 hrs worse only to try to make the 2nd 20 hours better.

jk175d said:

I string up my racquets so they feel at their best the first time out. I do get a happy 2-4 weeks out of each string job so I can't complain.

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Just out of curiosity, have you ever tried Heptatwist crosses? They're the same composition as CoF but because they're textured and twisted they're much lower friction against the mains and impart a lot more spin from the get-go . . . apparently at the cost of only lasting about 15 hours. A bit like Lux Rough but with CoF feel.

They might deliver more of what you're looking for.

Smasher08 said:

Just out of curiosity, have you ever tried Heptatwist crosses? They're the same composition as CoF but because they're textured and twisted they're much lower friction against the mains and impart a lot more spin from the get-go . . . apparently at the cost of only lasting about 15 hours. A bit like Lux Rough but with CoF feel.

They might deliver more of what you're looking for.

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I haven't but I get what I'm looking for from gut/co-focus, I love it. It's just that I don't find the magic that you seem to after 20-30 or 40 hours. I'm not inclined to use a cross that will possibly saw through the gut really quickly. I do on occasion swap out just the crosses so I do sometimes get 40-50 hrs from the gut, just not from the original cross too.

jk175d said:

I haven't but I get what I'm looking for from gut/co-focus, I love it. It's just that I don't find the magic that you seem to after 20-30 or 40 hours. I'm not inclined to use a cross that will possibly saw through the gut really quickly. I do on occasion swap out just the crosses so I do sometimes get 40-50 hrs from the gut, just not from the original cross too.

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Fair enough. I've decided to try restringing the crosses on my next Pac/CoF stringjob. Although in all honesty I think that the dying window of CoF is somewhere aound the 22-30 hour mark. After that it's completely dead and doesn't bother me at all.

But I might as well do it to compare.

hmm, yesterday I snapped the mains in my Klip/Revolution frame, and didn't have a chance to restring before playing today. So I pulled out my Pacific/Co-focus strung frame. The mains have probably 30 hrs, but the crosses I replaced about 6-8 hrs ago. After cahnging the crosses it still was a little springy, so I thought to add a few stringsavers to firm it up some. Sure enough that really helped out. So it had me thinking about how much of the magic you are feeling in your 40+ hour stringjob might come from all those savers you've got in there? But I think I remember Big Kahuna saying he doesn't use SS'rs so maybe it's nothing. But they certainly made my aging and lowered tensioned stringjob feel much better.

jk175d said:

After cahnging the crosses it still was a little springy, so I thought to add a few stringsavers to firm it up some. Sure enough that really helped out. So it had me thinking about how much of the magic you are feeling in your 40+ hour stringjob might come from all those savers you've got in there? But I think I remember Big Kahuna saying he doesn't use SS'rs so maybe it's nothing. But they certainly made my aging and lowered tensioned stringjob feel much better.

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I don't use string savers. This is true. Should I be using them?

I also now have maybe 30 hours on my strings and they have not even started to fray. They are notched real good, but no fraying at all. Tension is off about 20% since I strung up on February 18th. Still playing well - slightly less crisp than day one, but as the gut wears through, it seems to get spinnier.