Head-to-Head: Oscar Wegner & John Yandell

Mountain Ghost

Mountain Ghost

Professional
As I mentioned in another thread ... I've heard a lot of intelligent stuff offered by the resident theory and knowledge experts, observists and creationists, but very little in the way of how they would actually correct the problems of unique players. I would really like to hear something tangibly REAL from them!

How about a Head-to-Head between Oscar Wegner and John Yandell, with an analysis and a fix of the same student(s). I think everyone here would be interested in what they might say on an actual lesson court.

The only way I can envision this working is if people would post a single short video of themselves, preferably just a link with no description or words, and the drafted parties (Oscar & John) agree on who they will critique and "help"!

Of course there is no gaurantee that they will agree on this either, but the pipedream came up, and so I present it. Please, no help from the audience in the form of technical comments or distracting advice about the videos.

In any case, the thread could serve as a great quick reference list for everyone here to easily access everyone else's stroke videos.

MG
 
5263

5263

G.O.A.T.
At least you are trying to make a positive input that could be helpful to those who come to this site looking for instruction.
Nice.
 
Timbo's hopeless slice

Timbo's hopeless slice

Hall of Fame
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Timbo's hopeless slice

Timbo's hopeless slice

Hall of Fame
I should clarify the phrase 'plenty to work with'

What I mean is TLM seems to be quite athletic and prepared to work on his game.

I didn't mean it in a disparaging way.
 
5263

5263

G.O.A.T.
Timbo's hopeless slice said:
I should clarify the phrase 'plenty to work with'

What I mean is TLM seems to be quite athletic and prepared to work on his game.

I didn't mean it in a disparaging way.
Click to expand...

Don't want to speak for TLM, but this would likely not be fair, since I think
TLM is already appreciative of Oscar's work and not such a fan of JY
if I remember right.
And of course we don't know if Oscar would have any interest.
 
tlm

tlm

G.O.A.T.
JohnYandell said:
Well I'd like to hear it's ok with tlm. If it is I am game...
Click to expand...

I appreciate that John, I don't care I don't think I could get a lot more abuse than what I already received. Plus it is obvious I could use a lot of help, but I will say that I have gotten some good information from John and his website.

I have had disagreements with John in the past but he has also helped me with some good advise. I do want to remind people that I started this game at the age of 45, so maybe I am not a very good example.
 
mightyrick

mightyrick

Legend
We need a prize, also. What does the winner get? Should this be like the movie "Dirty Rotten Scoundrels"?

Winner leaves town?
 
tlm

tlm

G.O.A.T.
Timbo's hopeless slice said:
Hey TLM, I hope you didn't mind me putting your vids forward, I actually think you are a perfect example as your game is a 'work in progress'.
Click to expand...

Not really but my game has been a work in progress for a while now, not sure how much progress I am actually making anymore. But believe it or not I have improved quite a bit from a few years ago, I compete in actual match play a lot better than what you might think after watching my bad footwork and weird strokes.
 
T

tennishotdog

Rookie
this is a great idea. guess i better get working on my video and post it quickly . it'd be an honor to have one's strokes analyzed and critiqued by two legends of tennis instruction and video analysis on TT.
 
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tlm

tlm

G.O.A.T.
5263 said:
Don't want to speak for TLM, but this would likely not be fair, since I think
TLM is already appreciative of Oscar's work and not such a fan of JY
if I remember right.
And of course we don't know if Oscar would have any interest.
Click to expand...

Ya there is some truth to what you are saying, but like I mentioned I do think that John has some great advise also. One thing I will say is that I had some pretty good arguments with John but he would still discuss tennis instruction with me without holding a grudge over prior disagreements.
 
jackcrawford

jackcrawford

Professional
I have had my disagreements with both gentlemen as to how important their work has been to the current stroke production on the ATP tour, but I should point out that I have purchased DVD's from both of them in the past and their customer service is excellent. They are both passionate and interesting commentators on stroke production and I would enjoy following this thread if they both get involved.
 
Timbo's hopeless slice

Timbo's hopeless slice

Hall of Fame
tlm said:
Not really but my game has been a work in progress for a while now, not sure how much progress I am actually making anymore. But believe it or not I have improved quite a bit from a few years ago, I compete in actual match play a lot better than what you might think after watching my bad footwork and weird strokes.
Click to expand...

well, actually it is your matchplay vid that gave me hope. You do all the right things tactically and you stay in the point really well.

If you can do that with the technique you were using at the time (that 1HBH!), then there is a fair bit of potential there...
 
J

JohnYandell

Hall of Fame
TLM,

OK I am in. And I agree exactly about the character of our exchanges which have at times been "frank" but I think positive. I don't see it as unfair in any way.

To make this beneficial for you I am going to take those clips and do some editing, similar to what you've seen on the site. I am going to do the forehand side, since I've shared some backhand thoughts with you.

On a deadline for Tennisplayer so not sure of the time frame and I will need some input from some of my techno colleagues, but consider it in process.

JY
 
Cheetah

Cheetah

Hall of Fame
If Oscar expresses interest in participating someone should photoshop up a graphic depicting the head to head matchup. Mortal Kombat style. lol
 
onehandbh

onehandbh

G.O.A.T.
The problem with using TLM...

The problem with using TLM for this exercise/experiment
is that he has been a devout follower of Oscar's
MTM for some time now.

The person picked should be more of a "blank slate"
that hasn't been using MTM at all or very little and
also hasn't been coaches by JY.
Even though he started tennis later in life,
TLM has already been using MTM for awhile, so in a sense
he is actually a good example of the "after" NOT
the "before" of what Oscar's DVDs? can
affect/shape one's technique. Still just a sample
of one but still a good example since he has
been a devout follower of MTM.
 
T

tennishotdog

Rookie
we need candidates who model their strokes after federer and has neither been influenced by OW nor JY. and there are a bunch of people here on TT who fits the bill :wink: :wink:
 
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gindyo

gindyo

Semi-Pro
I can be a guinea pig !!! and I have only been influenced by Cheetah :mrgreen:
 
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L

Limpinhitter

G.O.A.T.
onehandbh said:
The problem with using TLM for this exercise/experiment
is that he has been a devout follower of Oscar's
MTM for some time now.

The person picked should be more of a "blank slate"
that hasn't been using MTM at all or very little and
also hasn't been coaches by JY.
Even though he started tennis later in life,
TLM has already been using MTM for awhile, so in a sense
he is actually a good example of the "after" NOT
the "before" of what Oscar's DVDs? can
affect/shape one's technique. Still just a sample
of one but still a good example since he has
been a devout follower of MTM.
Click to expand...

As I understand it, tlm is completely self taught. Just because he may have intended to use MTM doesn't mean that he's been very successful at implementing it. Clearly he hasn't. So, the question raised is whether tlm has a bias toward MTM and, if so, whether that bias will have an effect on the outcome of the coaching contest.
 
Mountain Ghost

Mountain Ghost

Professional
Head-to-Head

I've connected with Oscar and personally asked him to participate in the Head-to-Head. Oscar mentioned that if this was to transpire, he would like John to post his analysis first and for all of this to happen in the "Oscar at the Fair" thread so that it can remain in the context of what has transpired so far. I told him my thought is that each person's analysis should be sent to a third party, like ME, so that neither person can read the other's response before his is posted. I would then post them both simultaneously.

I am quite neutral in my process, am more of an issue-specific advocate than a devoted supporter of any one individual and would be open to any way it could possibly work.

In any case, I think it would be great to see it happen.

MG
 
Off The Wall

Off The Wall

Semi-Pro
Mountain Ghost said:
I've connected with Oscar and personally asked him to participate in the Head-to-Head. Oscar mentioned that if this was to transpire, he would like John to post his analysis first and for all of this to happen in the "Oscar at the Fair" thread so that it can remain in the context of what has transpired so far. I told him my thought is that each person's analysis should be sent to a third party, like ME, so that neither person can read the other's response before his is posted. I would then post them both simultaneously.

I am quite neutral in my process, am more of an issue-specific advocate than a devoted supporter of any one individual and would be open to any way it could possibly work.

In any case, I think it would be great to see it happen.

MG
Click to expand...

Sounds good to me.
 
J

JohnYandell

Hall of Fame
MG,

What a surprise. Oscar wants me to post first.

Regardless of what he decides I said I would do it and I will. I'll send you the link and then you can decide about the when and wheres. I am going to do it in the format of a Tennisplayer article--should take a few more days.

Honestly, I don't care about polls and votes to see who "wins" or whatever. That is one of my objections to the whole approach Oscar and his followers take--us versus them. Truth versus darkness or whatever. We're the greatest and dominate world tennis versus...well we know the rant.

Your idea is to do something positive for players and that's why I am participating. After that the rest is up to whomever wants to say what.
 
J

JohnYandell

Hall of Fame
To All Other Volunteers,

I am flattered and inspired by the requests to be test subjects! As I said I will do this for TLM first and I don't really have a concern about his alleged bias.

As I mentioned above I'll do it as a Tennisplayer article. Since we do one of these every couple of months, I am open to volunteers for the future.
 
Mountain Ghost

Mountain Ghost

Professional
Calling ALL Test Subjects

Anyone with videos and wanting to be considered (or anyone knowing someone who they think SHOULD be considered) for this historic event, please post links to them NOW. Oscar and John will have to agree on the lucky player, and then it looks were are a GO!

PROCESS:

- Post links to videos
- Oscar and John choose
- A few days to prepare
- Send the workups to me
- I'll post them in the "Oscar at the Fair" thread

I like it!

MG
 
Mountain Ghost

Mountain Ghost

Professional
Head-to-Head

It seems what we need is an agreement on TLM being the "ONE"! But keep the videos coming, as there may be a need for more/alternates!

MG
 
syke

syke

Professional
Awesome... To be honest, whatever the outcome is there will be no losers in this head to head.

It will only serve as a platform to further reach out to the tennis community.

Before this, I had absolutely no clue who Oscar or John are... Hopefully, with this head to head, more will come to know what those ideas are.
 
djarvik

djarvik

Rookie
This sounds great!

JY, will these articles be available to all or only paid customers of Tennisplayer?


As for Oscar wanting for all this to stay in context with he original thread,
a disclaimer can be posted in the OPs post with a link to that thread. Easy.

The idea of Mountain Ghost posting both answers at the same time is great as well.
 
M

MikeG_Tennis23

New User
Im kinda new around here, and don't quite get the argument.. Are these guys ACTUALLY pros? I feel like everyone on this site always is trying to give advice. If they are, this definitely seems like a cool idea.
 
tennis_balla

tennis_balla

Hall of Fame
I'm pessimistic sorry, this will turn into another circus just like the other thread. Just the fact that one side wants to respond last says a great deal. However the blind won't see it. It is what it is.
 
maverick66

maverick66

Hall of Fame
tennis_balla said:
I'm pessimistic sorry, this will turn into another circus just like the other thread. Just the fact that one side wants to respond last says a great deal. However the blind won't see it. It is what it is.
Click to expand...

Im with you. Its like a side argument waiting to happen. I hope I am wrong as it really could bury the hatchet and move on but I just dont see that asking to go second thing really working out. That just sounds a little in poor taste to me.
 
djarvik

djarvik

Rookie
tennis_balla said:
I'm pessimistic sorry, this will turn into another circus just like the other thread. Just the fact that one side wants to respond last says a great deal. However the blind won't see it. It is what it is.
Click to expand...


Well JY agreed to respond first, but really, it doesn't matter who responds first
as both responses will be blind and sent to OP. They will subsequently be posted
at the same time.


@ JY - thanks! Can't wait. :)
 
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