Jimmy Airias said they slowed down US open courts in 2010

RF20Lennon

RF20Lennon

Legend
During the fed-fish match yesterday Jimmy Airas said " I think they slowed down the court the year rafa won" he said the topspin of his was kicking higher than usual and stuff. So my curiosity is how exactly does one slow down speed up courts??? like the procedure. and do you think they slowed it down?


PS. PLEASE DO NOT START A FLAME WAR. that is not the intention of this thread it is to know the procedure of how to change the speed of a court and if they slowed it down. Thank you
 
6-1 6-3 6-0

6-1 6-3 6-0

Banned
Clarky21 said:
Jimmy Arias is a raging *******,and is full of crap. The USO in 2010 was faster than it was last year by a mile. 2011 is the year they slowed it down and made it play like a second AO.
Click to expand...

Agreed. And this brings us back to a suggestion I made earlier, a constant, cycling surface-changing US Open, to balance out the surfaces of the slams.
 
Fedex

Fedex

Legend
RF20Lennon said:
So anyone on why they dont keep the speed constant every year?
Click to expand...

I don't know but the slowing of USO from 2010 onwards would make sense.

USO 2008 final - Federer vs Murray two fast court specialists.

USO 2009 final - Federer vs Del Potro Federer fast court specialist, Del Potro not sure exactly what he is?

USO 2010 final - Nadal vs Djokovic two slow court grinder specialists coinciding with slowing of the courts. God knows why?

And from there we know which same players dominate the slower courts.
 
DRII

DRII

G.O.A.T.
Airias is mistaken. I still have the 2010 USO final on my DVR, and the speed is much faster than last year (also on a DVR)!

The women's final from last year really showed how slow the USO court played last year.

And again, high bouncing and slow are not the same thing! Nadal does not really like a slow court; he prefers a court that carries his spin regardless of the speed.

Cincy this week would have been perfect for Nadal! According to all the players its playing very fast but it is also bouncing unusually high; again showing the correlation between speed and bounce is not nearly as great as some claim...
 
RF20Lennon

RF20Lennon

Legend
DRII said:
Airias is mistaken. I still have the 2010 USO final on my DVR, and the speed is much faster than last year (also on a DVR)!

The women's final from last year really showed how slow the USO court played last year.

And again, high bouncing and slow are not the same thing! Nadal does not really like a slow court; he prefers a court that carries his spin regardless of the speed.

Cincy this week would have been perfect for Nadal! According to all the players its playing very fast but it is also bouncing unusually high; again showing the correlation between speed and bounce is not nearly as great as some claim...
Click to expand...

thank you!
 
DRII

DRII

G.O.A.T.
Fedex said:
I don't know but the slowing of USO from 2010 onwards would make sense.

USO 2008 final - Federer vs Murray two fast court specialists.

USO 2009 final - Federer vs Del Potro Federer fast court specialist, Del Potro not sure exactly what he is?

USO 2010 final - Nadal vs Djokovic two slow court grinder specialists coinciding with slowing of the courts. God knows why?

And from there we know which same players dominate the slower courts.
Click to expand...



Weak logic...

Nadal of USO 2010 was not a slow court grinder specialist! As a matter of fact: Nadal since 2008 is not 'just' a slow court grinder specialist, nor is Nole.


Nor is Murray and fast court specialist!

Very weak and unsubstantiated arguments all around on your part...
 
kishnabe

kishnabe

Talk Tennis Guru
2010 and 11 they slowed it because Rafa never made it to th final to reach Federer in the final.

Now they slowed it down...Federer isn't there to meet Rafa in the final.

They need to find a balance next year that would allow Fedal to play a final!

jk...
 
RF20Lennon

RF20Lennon

Legend
kishnabe said:
2010 and 11 they slowed it because Rafa never made it to th final to reach Federer in the final.

Now they slowed it down...Federer isn't there to meet Rafa in the final.

They need to find a balance next year that would allow Fedal to play a final!

jk...
Click to expand...

LOL!!!! hahahaha :)
 
RF20Lennon

RF20Lennon

Legend
kishnabe said:
2010 and 11 they slowed it because Rafa never made it to th final to reach Federer in the final.

Now they slowed it down...Federer isn't there to meet Rafa in the final.

They need to find a balance next year that would allow Fedal to play a final!

jk...
Click to expand...

make two courts one fast and low bouncing other slow and high bouncing xD till they reach the final and then toss to choose which out of the two to use for the final LOL
 
JustBob

JustBob

Hall of Fame
" I think they slowed down the court the year rafa won"

It's pretty clear that this statement implies "compared to previous years", so people jumping all over Arias because 2011 was slower than 2010 is kindda silly.
 
Zildite

Zildite

Hall of Fame
Fedex said:
I don't know but the slowing of USO from 2010 onwards would make sense.

USO 2008 final - Federer vs Murray two fast court specialists.

USO 2009 final - Federer vs Del Potro Federer fast court specialist, Del Potro not sure exactly what he is?

USO 2010 final - Nadal vs Djokovic two slow court grinder specialists coinciding with slowing of the courts. God knows why?

And from there we know which same players dominate the slower courts.
Click to expand...

Djokovic made the final in 2007 + both him and Nadal made the SF in 2008/2009 so it's not necessarily like some big change.
 
WhiskeyEE

WhiskeyEE

G.O.A.T.
DRII said:
Airias is mistaken. I still have the 2010 USO final on my DVR, and the speed is much faster than last year (also on a DVR)!

The women's final from last year really showed how slow the USO court played last year.

And again, high bouncing and slow are not the same thing! Nadal does not really like a slow court; he prefers a court that carries his spin regardless of the speed.

Cincy this week would have been perfect for Nadal! According to all the players its playing very fast but it is also bouncing unusually high; again showing the correlation between speed and bounce is not nearly as great as some claim...
Click to expand...

The correlation appears to be pretty steep, especially when comparing courts made of the same surface. Of course there are exceptions... For example, WTF 2010 courts were slow and low bouncing (which is why Rafa made the final). Those inconsistencies might have more to do with the ball than the court.
 
Bobby Jr

Bobby Jr

G.O.A.T.
I actually wonder if, at some point, we're not going to see tournaments subtly implementing surface tweaks which they think will help Federer for a change. His resurgence is a godsend for tennis in terms of media - every major win he achieves is much bigger news compared to Nadal or Djokovic winning simply because there is the growing feeling that he's near the end of his career.

In some ways it's a bit like Agassi in his later years - people just start pulling for the legend they see as the last bastion of the last era.
 
TTMR

TTMR

Hall of Fame
And of course everyone forgets the hurricane that happened in New York in 2011. The courts did not have a chance to fully dry out, nor were they played on before the US Open as they usually are (wear and tear on a hard court scuffs up the courts and makes them a little faster than a fresh surface otherwise would be).

But no, we must all blame the organizers for "robbing" Federer of the slams he is entitled to by dint of being Federer. I've noticed over the last few years, Federer hasn't lost any matches, courts have simply been slowed down.
 
N

NadalDramaQueen

Guest
Is there not any data that can verify any of these claims? It shouldn't be too difficult to compare the courts from one year to another.

I remember seeing something about bounce height of a certain type of shot at Wimbledon between two different years with Hawkeye during a match. If the ATP or ITF does keep this data, they should make it public, or someone should make it public for them.
 
West Coast Ace

West Coast Ace

G.O.A.T.
By 1 or 2% - big deal. Stop parroting what the talking heads say. Arias probably has hit tennis almost every day of his life since he was 9 - he can tell slight changes - the average TW poster wouldn't.

They're still hardcourts. Big hitters can still hit winners.
 
B

Biscuitmcgriddleson

Professional
DRII said:
Airias is mistaken. I still have the 2010 USO final on my DVR, and the speed is much faster than last year (also on a DVR)!

The women's final from last year really showed how slow the USO court played last year.

And again, high bouncing and slow are not the same thing! Nadal does not really like a slow court; he prefers a court that carries his spin regardless of the speed.

Cincy this week would have been perfect for Nadal! According to all the players its playing very fast but it is also bouncing unusually high; again showing the correlation between speed and bounce is not nearly as great as some claim...
Click to expand...

Just because 2011 was slower than 2010 doesn't mean that they didn't slow the courts down in 2010.
 
A

ALL IN

Rookie
RF20Lennon said:
During the fed-fish match yesterday Jimmy Airas said " I think they slowed down the court the year rafa won" he said the topspin of his was kicking higher than usual and stuff. So my curiosity is how exactly does one slow down speed up courts??? like the procedure. and do you think they slowed it down?


PS. PLEASE DO NOT START A FLAME WAR. that is not the intention of this thread it is to know the procedure of how to change the speed of a court and if they slowed it down. Thank you
Click to expand...

Slightly larger balls will effectively slow down ball speed in a tennis match. I'm not sure if there is an overlay that can be applied to an existing court without re surfacing it.
 
kragster

kragster

Hall of Fame
Fedex said:
I don't know but the slowing of USO from 2010 onwards would make sense.

USO 2008 final - Federer vs Murray two fast court specialists.

USO 2009 final - Federer vs Del Potro Federer fast court specialist, Del Potro not sure exactly what he is?

USO 2010 final - Nadal vs Djokovic two slow court grinder specialists coinciding with slowing of the courts. God knows why?

And from there we know which same players dominate the slower courts.
Click to expand...

Really poor analysis all round . first off correlation does not equal causation. Secondly even looking at correlation djokovic reached the final in 2007 as well.
 
TopFH

TopFH

Hall of Fame
DRII said:
Airias is mistaken. I still have the 2010 USO final on my DVR, and the speed is much faster than last year (also on a DVR)!

The women's final from last year really showed how slow the USO court played last year.

And again, high bouncing and slow are not the same thing! Nadal does not really like a slow court; he prefers a court that carries his spin regardless of the speed.

Cincy this week would have been perfect for Nadal! According to all the players its playing very fast but it is also bouncing unusually high; again showing the correlation between speed and bounce is not nearly as great as some claim...
Click to expand...

Which is why Federer handles Nadal comfortably at the WTF, even though it is pretty slow.
 
Sentinel

Sentinel

Bionic Poster
kishnabe said:
2010 and 11 they slowed it because Rafa never made it to th final to reach Federer in the final.

Now they slowed it down...Federer isn't there to meet Rafa in the final.

They need to find a balance next year that would allow Fedal to play a final!

jk...
Click to expand...

LMAO, but now USO pulled out of Hafa, no ?

;)
 
WhiskeyEE

WhiskeyEE

G.O.A.T.
TopFH said:
Which is why Federer handles Nadal comfortably at the WTF, even though it is pretty slow.
Click to expand...

outside of 2010, wtf is fairly quick IMO. Nadal pushed Fed to 3 sets in 2010 when it was slow, but extremely low bouncing (lower bouncing than usual).
 
cork_screw

cork_screw

Hall of Fame
BreakPoint said:
They slow down hardcourts by putting in more sand in the coatings on top of the court.
Click to expand...

I don't think they would do that. You can't just do something without telling a governing body what you plan on doing especially if millions of dollars in prize money is at stake. If they do anything to the courts they need to notify someone they are doing it and it gets a full publicity in the news about it. They did it when they slowed down AO courts a few years back and the news outlets took it and were notified. You don't just plough and scrape the courts, add "sand" as someone said and redo the courts without telling anybody.

Plus, I don't think they put "sand" I think that is you're interpretation of what you "think" they do, but you don't work in the field of resurfacing professional courts, so I don't think you should be commenting like you know exactly the make and layup of the procedure. It throws off other people who might believe you and it gives out the impression that people can just make up stuff that they feel they believe is true, but have no evidence that is what is being done.
 
F

fed_rulz

Hall of Fame
cork_screw said:
I don't think they would do that. You can't just do something without telling a governing body what you plan on doing especially if millions of dollars in prize money is at stake. If they do anything to the courts they need to notify someone they are doing it and it gets a full publicity in the news about it. They did it when they slowed down AO courts a few years back and the news outlets took it and were notified. You don't just plough and scrape the courts, add "sand" as someone said and redo the courts without telling anybody.

Plus, I don't think they put "sand" I think that is you're interpretation of what you "think" they do, but you don't work in the field of resurfacing professional courts, so I don't think you should be commenting like you know exactly the make and layup of the procedure. It throws off other people who might believe you and it gives out the impression that people can just make up stuff that they feel they believe is true, but have no evidence that is what is being done.
Click to expand...

wow, why the animosity?? did BP steal your lunch? FWIW, I've heard commentators (Cahill I think) mention several times that the amount of sand in the surface of the court could fluff the balls up pretty soon, and make it heavy and slow (which is what happened in 2011, apparently), so I don't think it's a stretch to imagine that BP could be right.
 
Fedex

Fedex

Legend
DRII said:
Nor is Murray a fast court specialist!
Click to expand...

Then why does Murray have more success on fast hardcourts eg Toronto, Cincinnati, Tokyo and Shanghai?
And why have Federer and Murray now won 7 Cincinnati titles (5 and 2) between them and Djokovic none.
Sure the likes of Djokovic and Nadal are great players on all surfaces and can still go far but not as comfortable on fast as the likes of Federer and Murray.
 
JustBob

JustBob

Hall of Fame
fed_rulz said:
wow, why the animosity?? did BP steal your lunch? FWIW, I've heard commentators (Cahill I think) mention several times that the amount of sand in the surface of the court could fluff the balls up pretty soon, and make it heavy and slow (which is what happened in 2011, apparently), so I don't think it's a stretch to imagine that BP could be right.
Click to expand...

Yeah, BP is right. Silica is added to the colored top coat(s), green or blue, to affect the speed of play. The decision about "speed" is left to the tournament directors but they have to adhere to ITF standards which aren't very explicit, i.e. slow, medium, fast. Of course, weather can also affect speed/bounce.
 
C

corners

Legend
JustBob said:
Yeah, BP is right. Silica is added to the colored top coat(s), green or blue, to affect the speed of play. The decision about "speed" is left to the tournament directors but they have to adhere to ITF standards which aren't very explicit, i.e. slow, medium, fast. Of course, weather can also affect speed/bounce.
Click to expand...

Court speed varies at the US Open every year, and has for years, because new courts are laid down for each tournament and the amount of sand in the topcoat varies year to year. Ivan Lendl used to hire the US Open court builders just after they finished at Flushing each year and instruct them to build one more court at his house, where he would practice until the tournament started.
 
JustBob

JustBob

Hall of Fame
corners said:
Court speed varies at the US Open every year, and has for years, because new courts are laid down for each tournament and the amount of sand in the topcoat varies year to year.
Click to expand...

I don't disagree with that. As I said, the ITF standards about court speed are pretty vague.
 
DRII

DRII

G.O.A.T.
corners said:
Court speed varies at the US Open every year, and has for years, because new courts are laid down for each tournament and the amount of sand in the topcoat varies year to year. Ivan Lendl used to hire the US Open court builders just after they finished at Flushing each year and instruct them to build one more court at his house, where he would practice until the tournament started.
Click to expand...

Yea, but 2011 was abnormally, awfully, painfully slow! To such an extent that last year is an aberration thus far. The USO has never been that slow before...
 
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