Agassi's Comments on Roddick's Backhand Technique and the Role of the Right Hand

rkelley · Sep 5, 2012

There have been references to comments that Andre Agassi made regarding left hand verses right hand dominance on the backhand. I was over on the junior talk group and found a thread that lead me to the actual quotes from Agassi. It's from a 2007 QF match at the US Open between Fed and Roddick. Here is a link to the entire match on youtube.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TcZFVQCfOQg

Agassi joins the commentators, which include McEnroe. At the beginning of the video there's a brutally honest appraisal by Agassi of Roddick's game right before the match starts. It includes the infamous comment about Roddick that "if a rally with Roger goes past six shots Roddick might as well hit it up into the stands." At the 12 minute mark during Roddick's first service game Agassi makes the comments on the backhand.

Enjoy.

TomT · Sep 5, 2012

rkelley said:
There have been references to comments that Andre Agassi made regarding left hand verses right hand dominance on the backhand. I was over on the junior talk group and found a thread that lead me to the actual quotes from Agassi. It's from a 2007 QF match at the US Open between Fed and Roddick. Here is a link to the entire match on youtube.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TcZFVQCfOQg

Agassi joins the commentators, which include McEnroe. At the beginning of the video there's a brutally honest appraisal by Agassi of Roddick's game right before the match starts. It includes the infamous comment about Roddick that "if a rally with Roger goes past six shots Roddick might as well hit it up into the stands." At the 12 minute mark during Roddick's first service game Agassi makes the comments on the backhand.

Enjoy.

Thanks for posting this. I'm enjoying it now.

BigboyDan · Sep 5, 2012

A dominant righthand backhand is really hard to master, and it only allows for baseline play. Try hitting a golf shot lefthanded, you'll feel the same issues present in a dominant righthand tennis backhand.

tennis_balla · Sep 5, 2012

Pretty much everyone, including Bolettieri Tennis Academy teaches it as a left handed forehand (for righties). I remember as far back as '94 I saw one of my old coaches work on a top juniors 2 hander technique and made her hit left handed forehands, choking up on the racket.

Limpinhitter · Sep 5, 2012

tennis_balla said:
Pretty much everyone, including Bolettieri Tennis Academy teaches it as a left handed forehand (for righties). I remember as far back as '94 I saw one of my old coaches work on a top juniors 2 hander technique and made her hit left handed forehands, choking up on the racket.

Oddly, Agassi's backhand looks like a model of a left hand dominant 2hb despite what he says about himself and other great 2hb's.

5263 · Sep 5, 2012

Limpinhitter said:
Oddly, Agassi's backhand looks like a model of a left hand dominant 2hb despite what he says about himself and other great 2hb's.

I may have solved this riddle today watching replays of Roddick.
Roddicks Bh lacks the aspect below and may account for some of
his problems there.

I'm thinking that Agassi is referring to how the right hand leads the Bh when
you drag the Bh properly to get the SSC that Andre did so well. I'm thinking
this likely accounts for Agassi's perspective on the rt hand thing. Beyond
that part, he likely is on auto pilot and not too aware of how left hand
figures strongly into the rest of his Bh.

What do you think?

TomT · Sep 5, 2012

Can't comment on the OP since I hit a 1hbh, but watched the whole match. Thanks for posting. Unbelievable tennis.

Limpinhitter · Sep 5, 2012

5263 said:
I may have solved this riddle today watching replays of Roddick.
Roddicks Bh lacks the aspect below and may account for some of
his problems there.

I'm thinking that Agassi is referring to how the right hand leads the Bh when
you drag the Bh properly to get the SSC that Andre did so well. I'm thinking
this likely accounts for Agassi's perspective on the rt hand thing. Beyond
that part, he likely is on auto pilot and not too aware of how left hand
figures strongly into the rest of his Bh.

What do you think?

If you listen closely, Agassi refers to Roddick's weak right hand "grip." Roddick's right hand grip on his backhand is between Continental and Eastern fh. Perhaps that is what he is referring to. He also states (correctly, IMO), that the great 2hb players kept the racquet head up. I presume he means in the backswing.

5263 · Sep 5, 2012

Limpinhitter said:
If you listen closely, Agassi refers to Roddick's weak right hand "grip." Roddick's right hand grip on his backhand is between Continental and Eastern fh. Perhaps that is what he is referring to. He also states (correctly, IMO), that the great 2hb players kept the racquet head up. I presume he means in the backswing.

but for Agassi isn't the weak hand the left hand, as he puts it?
and in the quote isn't he speaking more of control of the stroke vs grip choice?
I know grip affect strength, but don't get the sense he is talking about grip on
this.

TomT · Sep 5, 2012

5263 said:
I may have solved this riddle today watching replays of Roddick.
Roddicks Bh lacks the aspect below and may account for some of
his problems there.

I'm thinking that Agassi is referring to how the right hand leads the Bh when
you drag the Bh properly to get the SSC that Andre did so well. I'm thinking
this likely accounts for Agassi's perspective on the rt hand thing. Beyond
that part, he likely is on auto pilot and not too aware of how left hand
figures strongly into the rest of his Bh.

What do you think?

Yeah, I think Agassi's hitting was definitely on auto pilot.

How he actually hit the ball the way he did is a matter for some seriously talented analysts to explain.

Limpinhitter · Sep 5, 2012

5263 said:
but for Agassi isn't the weak hand the left hand, as he puts it?
and in the quote isn't he speaking more of control of the stroke vs grip choice?
I know grip affect strength, but don't get the sense he is talking about grip on
this.

Agassi said: "He hits the ball with his left hand. He has a weak right grip, and he pushes the backhand with his left hand. . . . I hit, primarily, my backhand with my right hand until I made contact, then I let the racquet head come around at the end."

That may be true, but, it certainly doesn't look that way. And, he would be the only great champion I know of, besides Borg, who hit a 2hb primarily with his right hand. Frankly, I don't buy it. I think he may have focused on his right hand because it's natural for a righty to do in terms of eye-hand coordination and timing. When you watch him hit, he's clearly driving the racquet through contact with his left hand. If anything, he may start with a dominant right hand on the windup, and hit the forward swing and finish with a dominant left hand. But, that would serve no purpose that isn't better accomplished by just dominating with the left hand throughout.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J1qv6S7KJug

BigboyDan · Sep 5, 2012

Agassi's backhand is just perfect, for him. He does have a strong righthand grip, and he "unlocks" his hips before striking the ball, like a left-handed baseball batter. It really does seem that he "pulls" through with the right hand dominant, but, at the moment of impact he does push with the left hand. All this requires a lot of upper body strength, as he does not drive the ball with his legs.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ql5xVpACt1Y&feature=related

Federer also uses mostly his upper body for his one-handed backhand.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RORTYH588cE

5263 · Sep 5, 2012

BigboyDan said:
It really does seem that he "pulls" through with the right hand dominant, but, at the moment of impact he does push with the left hand.

Above and most of what Limp said is pretty close to what I was trying to convey. He's thinking of the right hand on the pull to contact, then it's Katie bar the door, with the left hand joining strongly.

jackcrawford · Sep 5, 2012

Limpinhitter said:
Agassi said: "He hits the ball with his left hand. He has a weak right grip, and he pushes the backhand with his left hand. . . . I hit, primarily, my backhand with my right hand until I made contact, then I let the racquet head come around at the end."

That may be true, but, it certainly doesn't look that way. And, he would be the only great champion I know of, besides Borg, who hit a 2hb primarily with his right hand. Frankly, I don't buy it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J1qv6S7KJug

Not arguing, I enjoy your posts and have learned from them, just adding that on the pay portion of his site (not claiming he's the last word) Yandell describes Agassi and Nadal as having essentially one-handed backhands with little if anything from the top hand. His video evidence laced throughout the article is pretty compelling.

spaceman_spiff · Sep 6, 2012

Limpinhitter said:
If anything, he may start with a dominant right hand on the windup, and hit the forward swing and finish with a dominant left hand. But, that would serve no purpose that isn't better accomplished by just dominating with the left hand throughout.

I think you're leaving out an important point in this analysis: Agassi's ready position. He usually has his left hand on the throat of the racket and his right hand set for a backhand as he split steps, which means his backswing needs to be dominated by his right hand until his left hand is in position. If he did it the other way around, getting his left hand in position and then dominating with the left hand throughout, it would add a significant amount of time to his preparation.

The shots in this video where he doesn't have as much time to set up are good illustrations http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ql5xVpACt1Y

BevelDevil · Sep 6, 2012

Let's look at the shoulders through contact.

Through contact, Agassi's right shoulder tends to either be level with the left shoulder, or higher than it.

Contrast that with Murray, whose left shoulder tends to be much higher through contract.

Browsing through Djoko's and Nalbandian's backhands, they seem to range from level to left-shoulder-higher. Roddick has a pretty high left shoulder (so what's he doing different from Murray?).

Perhaps you guys can check some vids for this, too.

This seems to suggest that Agassi is using the right side more than the norm. It also suggests that different players use different amounts of left/right.

BevelDevil · Sep 10, 2012

More observations:

When Agassi drops his rackethead he keeps his right wrist straight and pronates his right forearm, he then supinates into the ball on the forward swing (with a push from his left right before contact).

Compare that to Murray, et al, who tend to bend their right wrist and don't pronate on the drop.

Straight arm, straight wrist, pronation into a "power position"... that's a lot of evidence in itself for a strong right side.

Now the question is, Is this something players should be taught? And what are the pros/cons of this stroke?

Limpinhitter · Sep 10, 2012

jackcrawford said:
Not arguing, I enjoy your posts and have learned from them, just adding that on the pay portion of his site (not claiming he's the last word) Yandell describes Agassi and Nadal as having essentially one-handed backhands with little if anything from the top hand. His video evidence laced throughout the article is pretty compelling.

I can't speak for John Yandell. I've seen that part of his site and I don't agree with his conclusion, or the basis behind it ie: hitting with straight arms means right hand dominance and hitting with bent arms means left hand dominance. From what I've seen, all modern 2hb's are currently dominated by the usually non-dominant hand. Off the top, I can't think of any that is not. As for Nadal, my understanding is that he is a natural righty and that his backhand practice routine includes hitting right handed forehands. That would seem pretty conclusive about Nadal's backhand being right hand dominant.

PS: Having said that, if you can hit a 2hb better by dominating with your usually dominant hand, then that is what you should do.

rkelley · Sep 10, 2012

BevelDevil said:
Let's look at the shoulders through contact.

Through contact, Agassi's right shoulder tends to either be level with the left shoulder, or higher than it.

Contrast that with Murray, whose left shoulder tends to be much higher through contract.

Browsing through Djoko's and Nalbandian's backhands, they seem to range from level to left-shoulder-higher. Roddick has a pretty high left shoulder (so what's he doing different from Murray?).

Perhaps you guys can check some vids for this, too.

This seems to suggest that Agassi is using the right side more than the norm. It also suggests that different players use different amounts of left/right.

I think Agassi's high right shoulder is caused by his straight right arm. You can't really keep both hands on the racquet, both arms straight, and not have to raise your right shoulder (for a rightie 2 hander).

PhrygianDominant · Sep 11, 2012

Agassi keeps BOTH arms straight at contact, so he has to tilt his shoulders to hit through a lot of balls. A straight or almost straight left arm is the norm among ATP pros, but a straight right arm is not.
What I took Agassi's comments to mean is that Roddick more or less arms the ball with his Left, kind of a slap, and Agassi by virtue of his straight arms and great technique, has more of a drag and smooth follow through on his swing to contact, with more core rotation. What to Agassi feels like a strong right arm to start the swing, I think is a lag or pull from a strong unit turn. Possible with a straight right arm at contact, or a bent right arm at contact.

Limpinhitter · Sep 11, 2012

rkelley said:
I think Agassi's high right shoulder is caused by his straight right arm. You can't really keep both hands on the racquet, both arms straight, and not have to raise your right shoulder (for a rightie 2 hander).

I don't think Agassi has a high right shoulder. His shoulders are level. Andy Murray hits with a dipped right shoulder which is an aspect of a more old school 2hb as I see it.

From my observations, in the 80's and 90's as 2hb's were becoming the norm, it seemed that most players were hitting it with a weak grip in the left hand, wrists and racquet head down, bent arms, a dipped right shoulder and a contact point a bit back in the stance, perhaps as a result of the weak right hand grip, and a finish in which a significant part of the swing comes from bending the elbows, not upper body rotation. (Picture Michael Chang). Over the decades, the 2hb has evolved to where most players are hitting with a straight arms (the left arm is bent in the takeback and straightens at contact, while the left arm remains straight), cocked wrists with racquet head up, more upper body rotation, and more level shoulders.

Rozroz · Sep 11, 2012

great insights.
sadly the most powerful thing i saw in the video was how much better was Fed back then..

no doubt if he was in this level today he was dominating.

Limpinhitter · Sep 11, 2012

Rozroz said:
great insights.
sadly the most powerful thing i saw in the video was how much better was Fed back then..
no doubt if he was in this level today he was dominating.

Nothing lasts forever.

rkelley · Sep 11, 2012

Rozroz said:
great insights.
sadly the most powerful thing i saw in the video was how much better was Fed back then..
no doubt if he was in this level today he was dominating.

Interesting.

The thing that really struck me was how good Roddick was. I expect it from Fed, but Roddick really impressed me. That boy could hammer that ball, even with his bh (I agree with Agassi and Mac, I don't like his basic bh stroke). Huge power with low UFEs. Some nice volleys too. He was only a couple of shots away from taking both the first and second sets against prime Fed. Really high quality stuff from both guys, but I have to say I have a new respect for Roddick's game.

Limpinhitter · Sep 11, 2012

rkelley said:
Interesting.

The thing that really struck me was how good Roddick was. I expect it from Fed, but Roddick really impressed me. That boy could hammer that ball, even with his bh (I agree with Agassi and Mac, I don't like his basic bh stroke). Huge power with low UFEs. Some nice volleys too. He was only a couple of shots away from taking both the first and second sets against prime Fed. Really high quality stuff from both guys, but I have to say I have a new respect for Roddick's game.

The mystery is what happened to Roddicks game? When did his fearsome forehand become a spinny loop, and his backhand little more than a push (by top 10 standards, of course)? He definitely wasn't the same after about 2005-6 as he was early in his career when he was the hier apparent to Sampras.

tricky · Sep 11, 2012

The thing that really struck me was how good Roddick was

I remember this match. By 2007, Roddick was hitting FHs short like what we were seeing today. BUT, for JUST this match against Federer, he went back to old school. I remember the discussion afterwards, we were talking about how this old school form would have beaten anybody else on this surface.

BevelDevil · Sep 11, 2012

I think the reason why we see strong-left 2hbhs today is that it's probably much easier to teach/learn to hit that way, at least to a total beginner. (Whether a 1hbh'er transitioning to a 2hbh can learn the Agassi stroke more easily remains to be seen.)

Btw, I watched a video of Jimmy Connors hitting backhands in 2007 and noticed he also seems to have a strong front arm (left, in his case). His front arm and wrist are straight, his front shoulder usually finishes higher, and he often lets go of his top hand before he's done with the follow-through.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yEFvYMpuJLI

rkelley said:
I think Agassi's high right shoulder is caused by his straight right arm.

Limpinhitter said:
I don't think Agassi has a high right shoulder. His shoulders are level.

It seems his shoulders are usually level, but occasionally he has his right side higher. It may have something to do with the height of the ball, or how much spin he wants.

Limpinhitter · Sep 11, 2012

BevelDevil said:
I think the reason why we see strong-left 2hbhs today is that it's probably much easier to teach/learn to hit that way, at least to a total beginner. (Whether a 1hbh'er transitioning to a 2hbh can learn the Agassi stroke more easily remains to be seen.)

Btw, I watched a video of Jimmy Connors hitting backhands in 2007 and noticed he also seems to have a strong front arm (left, in his case). His front arm and wrist are straight, his front shoulder usually finishes higher, and he often lets go of his top hand before he's done with the follow-through.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yEFvYMpuJLI

It seems his shoulders are usually level, but occasionally he has his right side higher. It may have something to do with the height of the ball, or how much spin he wants.

I think these are representative:

Agassi's backhand: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J1qv6S7KJug
Murray's backhand: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=07C6MgXW8ZM
Djokovic's backhand: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-k40zmz1uvA

rkelley · Sep 11, 2012

BevelDevil said:
Btw, I watched a video of Jimmy Connors hitting backhands in 2007 and noticed he also seems to have a strong front arm (left, in his case). His front arm and wrist are straight, his front shoulder usually finishes higher, and he often lets go of his top hand before he's done with the follow-through.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yEFvYMpuJLI

Yep, that's Jimmy. He still looks good there too.

The thing about Connors' strokes, including his backhand, was that he really fed off of other's pace. He stayed near the baseline, took balls on the rise, and used his opponents power against them. His strokes were very compact, he didn't use a lot of topspin. His ball was flat and penetrating and didn't have a lot margin over the net, and the racquet head speed he achieved was not like what players are using today. He was not really great at generating tons of his own pace (check out the Ashe/Connors Wimbledon final in 74).

He was/is a very gifted player (try hitting like he does - it ain't easy). But his strokes are a poor model for anyone that wants to hit like the players are hitting today. There is very little whip in Connors' strokes.

BevelDevil · Sep 11, 2012

Limpinhitter said:
I think these are representative:

Agassi's backhand: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J1qv6S7KJug
Murray's backhand: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=07C6MgXW8ZM
Djokovic's backhand: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-k40zmz1uvA

Yeah, I love those side views; there need to be more vids from that angle.

One unusual thing about that Agassi clip: He takes back his racket with a bent arm and straightens it at the start of his forward swing. Usually, I think he takes it back straight. Although, perhaps he was considering slicing that ball since it was somewhat low.

BevelDevil · Sep 12, 2012

jackcrawford said:
Not arguing, I enjoy your posts and have learned from them, just adding that on the pay portion of his site (not claiming he's the last word) Yandell describes Agassi and Nadal as having essentially one-handed backhands with little if anything from the top hand. His video evidence laced throughout the article is pretty compelling.

Limpinhitter said:
I can't speak for John Yandell. I've seen that part of his site and I don't agree with his conclusion, or the basis behind it ie: hitting with straight arms means right hand dominance and hitting with bent arms means left hand dominance.

Awesome!

I just watched one of Nadal's shirtless bh videos. Watch this clip. What do you see?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j86FuSXtWUM#t=0m30s

(Watch the clip first.)

His front arm just explodes with muscles on the forward swing. It is definitely being put to work. Technique-wise, he definitely seems to be pulling the buttcap up and forward. His front arm tends to be straight, and he does pronate (although he bends his wrist).

I have to wonder whether that much muscle bulge can be produced just by accelerating his front arm plus his racket; or if he is actually dragging the mass of a relatively passive rear arm.

This also makes me wonder how much Nadal's buffed left arm is due to his backhand rather than forehand! I mean, why shouldn't his right arm be just as buffed as his left? Especially seeing how his forehand is mostly a straight-arm whipping action.

In any case, shirtless vids are useful!

Limpinhitter · Sep 12, 2012

BevelDevil said:
Awesome!

I just watched one of Nadal's shirtless bh videos. Watch this clip. What do you see?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j86FuSXtWUM#t=0m30s

(Watch the clip first.)

His front arm just explodes with muscles on the forward swing. It is definitely being put to work. Technique-wise, he definitely seems to be pulling the buttcap up and forward. His front arm tends to be straight, and he does pronate (although he bends his wrist).

I have to wonder whether that much muscle bulge can be produced just by accelerating his front arm plus his racket; or if he is actually dragging the mass of a relatively passive rear arm.

This also makes me wonder how much Nadal's buffed left arm is due to his backhand rather than forehand! I mean, why shouldn't his right arm be just as buffed as his left? Especially seeing how his forehand is mostly a straight-arm whipping action.

In any case, shirtless vids are useful!

He is compressing his arm across his chest. If you pay attention to his right hand, and the swing path of the racquet, you can see he is executing a typical WW forehand. He can't produce that swing path with his left hand.

rkelley · Sep 12, 2012

Limpinhitter said:
He is compressing his arm across his chest. If you pay attention to his right hand, and the swing path of the racquet, you can see he is executing a typical WW forehand. He can't produce that swing path with his left hand.

It's more than just compression of the dominant arm across the chest. At 0:34 you can see muscles in the back part of his shoulder and upper arm flex significantly. He's using that dominant arm. I'm not saying he isn't using the non-dominant arm too or that it isn't the arm guiding the swing. You can see those muscles flexing as well. But given the amount of muscle flexing I don't see how the dominant arm could be considered passive.

TheCanadian · Sep 12, 2012

What does Andre mean by "weak grip" of his right hand? Should we conclude that Andy should have more of an Eastern FH grip?

Limpinhitter · Sep 12, 2012

rkelley said:
It's more than just compression of the dominant arm across the chest. At 0:34 you can see muscles in the back part of his shoulder and upper arm flex significantly. He's using that dominant arm. I'm not saying he isn't using the non-dominant arm too or that it isn't the arm guiding the swing. You can see those muscles flexing as well. But given the amount of muscle flexing I don't see how the dominant arm could be considered passive.

It's passive compared to his right hand. I'm not saying it's dead weight. But, when trying to teach it, knowing how anti-intuitive it is to let your non-dominant hand be dominant, you sometimes have to overstate your case a bit to get the result you want.

Limpinhitter · Sep 12, 2012

TheCanadian said:
What does Andre mean by "weak grip" of his right hand? Should we conclude that Andy should have more of an Eastern FH grip?

The opposite. Weak on the backhand side means more open. Roddick's rh grip was a bit towards Eastern forehand compared to Agassi's which was a solid Conti grip.

TheCanadian · Sep 12, 2012

What's Agassi's grip for the right hand? Everyone seems to teach nowadays to have a continental grip for the right hand. I feel that that gives you a weak grip. I think you should turn more towards the wastern BH for a stronger grip. Not as if you were hitting a 1HB, but fairly close.

TheCanadian · Sep 12, 2012

Limpinhitter said:
The opposite. Weak on the backhand side means more open. Roddick's rh grip was a bit towards Eastern forehand compared to Agassi's which was a solid Conti grip.

I would need more evidence than just your opinion, no disrespect involved but it seems counter intuitive to me. I can't see how a continental grip gives you a stronger grip when just a few posts above somebody mentions (citing an authority) that Agassi essentially had a 1HB technically speaking. If that's the case, it's impossible to have a strong 1HB with a continental grip. One needs either an eastern or semi-western.

TheCanadian · Sep 12, 2012

Limpinhitter said:
I can't speak for John Yandell. I've seen that part of his site and I don't agree with his conclusion, or the basis behind it ie: hitting with straight arms means right hand dominance and hitting with bent arms means left hand dominance. From what I've seen, all modern 2hb's are currently dominated by the usually non-dominant hand. Off the top, I can't think of any that is not. As for Nadal, my understanding is that he is a natural righty and that his backhand practice routine includes hitting right handed forehands. That would seem pretty conclusive about Nadal's backhand being right hand dominant.

PS: Having said that, if you can hit a 2hb better by dominating with your usually dominant hand, then that is what you should do.

Limpinhitter, what bothers me about your commentary throughout this thread is that you seem to think that you know more about how Agassi hits his BH than Agassi himself. It's a case of knowing more about Catholicism than the Pope. You don't know more about tennis than Agassi and you certainly don't know more about how Agassi hits his BH than him. A little humility goes a long way. The authority on Agassi is Agassi.

You'll excuse us, but Agassi is the authority on both Agassi and tennis, not some anonymous poster.

Limpinhitter · Sep 12, 2012

TheCanadian said:
I would need more evidence than just your opinion, no disrespect involved but it seems counter intuitive to me. I can't see how a continental grip gives you a stronger grip when just a few posts above somebody mentions (citing an authority) that Agassi essentially had a 1HB technically speaking. If that's the case, it's impossible to have a strong 1HB with a continental grip. One needs either an eastern or semi-western.

I think you are confusing Eastern forehand and Eastern backhand. When Agassi says that Roddick's backhand grip is weak, and it's clear that Roddick's grip is turned slightly to the Eastern forehand grip compared to Agassi's which is Conti, that that is what Agassi is talking about. And an Eastern forehand grip on the backhand is certainly a weak grip.

Limpinhitter · Sep 12, 2012

TheCanadian said:
Limpinhitter, what bothers me about your commentary throughout this thread is that you seem to think that you know more about how Agassi hits his BH than Agassi himself. It's a case of knowing more about Catholicism than the Pope. You don't know more about tennis than Agassi and you certainly don't know more about how Agassi hits his BH than him. A little humility goes a long way. The authority on Agassi is Agassi.

You'll excuse us, but Agassi is the authority on both Agassi and tennis, not some anonymous poster.

I say it the way I see it. I don't care if that bothers you or not. Nor do I need social advice from you. If you don't like my posts, then don't read them. Further, perhaps a little humility would have served to deter you from offering such advice on an internet forum in the first place.

Having said that, a lot of pros say things that range from wise and profound to preposterous and untenable. If you haven't figured that out yet, you will soon enough.

TheCanadian · Sep 12, 2012

Limpinhitter said:
I say it the way I see it. I don't care if that bothers you or not. Nor do I need social advice from you. If you don't like my posts, then don't read them. Further, perhaps a little humility would have served to deter you from offering such advice on an internet forum in the first place.

Having said that, a lot of pros say things that range from wise and profound to preposterous and untenable. If you haven't figured that out yet, you will soon enough.

A brief note, I'll let others decide who's showing arrogance and a lack of humility in this thread.

TheCanadian · Sep 12, 2012

Limpinhitter said:
I think you are confusing Eastern forehand and Eastern backhand. When Agassi says that Roddick's backhand grip is weak, and it's clear that Roddick's grip is turned slightly to the Eastern forehand grip compared to Agassi's which is Conti, that that is what Agassi is talking about. And an Eastern forehand grip on the backhand is certainly a weak grip.

I'm not confusing anything. I stand by my estimation that Agassi had a grip between eastern BH and continental.

Limpinhitter · Sep 12, 2012

TheCanadian said:
I'm not confusing anything. I stand by my estimation that Agassi had a grip between eastern BH and continental.

Maybe he did, but, that's not the issue. You asked what Agassi meant by saying that Roddick had a "weak grip," and whether he meant that Roddick should have an Eastern forehand grip on his 2hb. Since you don't already know, an Eastern forehand grip on a backand is a very weak grip. In any event, in context, it is obvious that he meant that Roddick's grip was turned slightly toward Eastern forehand from Continental making it weaker than Continental. The vast majority of pros who hit 2hb's use a Continental grip with their dominant hand. Conti with the dominant hand on a 2hb is not a weak grip.

rkelley · Sep 12, 2012

Limpinhitter said:
It's passive compared to his right hand. I'm not saying it's dead weight. But, when trying to teach it, knowing how anti-intuitive it is to let your non-dominant hand be dominant, you sometimes have to overstate your case a bit to get the result you want.

I agree.

10 char

2ndServe · Sep 12, 2012

what grip do most pros hit with on the non dominant hand?

tricky · Sep 14, 2012

what grip do most pros hit with on the non dominant hand?

Most use some variation of continental. The non-dominant hand influences your swing plane (and thus your depth vs. spin.) The more extreme, the more down-to-up and spinnier your swing will be

Limpinhitter · Sep 14, 2012

2ndServe said:
what grip do most pros hit with on the non dominant hand?

Eastern.

102hb's

rkelley · Sep 15, 2012

2ndServe said:
what grip do most pros hit with on the non dominant hand?

Eastern to SW.

The dominant hand uses continental.

There are of course variations on this, but these are the most common as far as I am aware.

tricky said:
Most use some variation of continental. The non-dominant hand influences your swing plane (and thus your depth vs. spin.) The more extreme, the more down-to-up and spinnier your swing will be

The dominant hand uses continental typically, not the non-dominant. It's possible to use continental on the non-dominant hand, but it's not common.

TheCanadian · Sep 15, 2012

According to Gabe Jaramillo Agassi used eastern grips for both hands. See his Tennis Manual available online.

Agassi's Comments on Roddick's Backhand Technique and the Role of the Right Hand

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