New Rule NOW!

D

DMan

Professional
There has to be a rule change NOW in the game of professional tennis:

NO INJURY TIME OUTS MID-MATCH!

I thought the Azarenka episode was an all-time low.

Azarenka admitted to choking, and that's why she needed to go off court - for 10 minutes - so she could get a massage and relax!

I mean it is pathetic.

Tennis went completely the opposite from the Shuzo Matsuoka days when he cramped horribly on court. Now, a player needs to just fake an injury to not only get on court treatment, but be able to leave the court MID-MATCH, and yet still continue!

I mean, whatever happened to "Play shall be continuous" ?!?

Tennis is a sport. Participating in a sport means you are in physical condition to play continuously. And yes, you have to be in good mental condition to play continuously. It ISN'T a team sport. Substitutions aren't allowed. And apart from the side changes where players get a "time out" break, you don't get to pick and choose when you need a break to physically and mentally recover.

Azarenka is the lowest of the low when it comes to #1 ranked players. Her grunting is atrocious. She's never been popular off court with tournament officials. And she practically resorted to cheating today, because she was choking so badly. I wish she had played Serena in the SF. Even if Azarenka were ahead, I guarantee you that Azarenka's off court trick would have fired Serena up so much, she would have beaten her even if Serena had one arm and one leg. Serena's had her moments, but in the majors, she fights until the very end.

It was a sad day for tennis today. And the sport will continue to be devalued when the rules remain as they are!

There is no excuse for how pathetic the current rules are. Horrible shame for the sport!
 
Bartelby

Bartelby

Bionic Poster
This is why the ITF and the Slams have such a noble commitment to tradition! MTOs when you want, half a minute to serve, etc., etc., etc.
 
B

bluetrain4

G.O.A.T.
At the very least, make it so the player can only take the time out before he or she serves, not before his or her opponent is about to serve.
 
M

monomer

Rookie
There really isn't a good way to address this. While I agree with the original post that Azarenka unfairly took advantage of the rule, injury time outs are either allowed or not. There is no way for a referee to determine whether the injury warrants a time out. It is at the discretion of the player.

Serena rolling her ankle is an example of why they are necessary.
 
woodrow1029

woodrow1029

Hall of Fame
It just takes a couple suspicious or flat out BS (in this case) MTO's for people to come up with an unreasonable idea like no medical timeouts.

Here's what I suggest.

Currently there are no medical timeouts allowed for cramping. A player can get treatment on 2 complete changeovers for cramping, with only changeover time allowed. If the player is cramping during a game, he can forfeit points or games to get to the changeover, and the forfeited points are not considered code violations, just forfeited points.

Maybe they should do something similar. However, if a player requires a medical timeout, it can only be one of two times:

1. Set break
2. Before or during their own serve game

If they get injured before or during the opponents serve, they can forfeit points to their own serve game (even or odd game) or to the set break.
 
N

NadalDramaQueen

Guest
heninfan99 said:
What if you're really injured and need treatment???
Click to expand...

Forfeit the game and then get treatment. It happens too often that you end up breaking your opponent when you disrupt their service game.
 
T

tennis_ocd

Hall of Fame
They should just be permitted x number of timeouts for xx minutes each per match. Bring down the dr/trainer/coach whatever.
 
T

TennisCJC

Legend
All good points but if the rules are changed, they should still consider that a player may have a legitimate injury. Also, TV and tournaments don't want players to be defaulted in the middle of a match. Yea, MTO rule is being abused and it is too generous. Maybe including a point penalty, limiting number per match, and only allowing it on your serve unless it is an emergency would help.
 
D

DBH

New User
An easy rule change that would penalize the unsportsmanlike use of medical timeouts would be as follows. If a player takes a MTO, his or her opponent is permitted to receive on-court coaching for as long as the player is being treated.

It's not quite as onerous as the sacrifice of points or games (which I also would support), but at least it would balance out the advantage a player receives from taking the MTO.

DBH
 
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woodrow1029

woodrow1029

Hall of Fame
mariecon said:
Me too. I thought you were only allowed 3 minutes. Players should be docked a point for every minute to go over the 3 minute rule.:twisted:
Click to expand...
It's reasonable time for diagnosis, then 3 minutes for treatment. But you are allowed back to back medical timeouts for separate injuries, which is what happened. So 6 minutes total treatment time plus eval time
 
A

adidasman

Professional
I think what Azarenka did was appalling, but I also don't see how you can change it. If the injury is legitimate, what are you going to do? You're actually going to ask the injured played to forfeit a game if it's their opponent's serve? That's ridiculous. And the "well, now you get to have your coach on court" idea is fraught with all kinds of problems, and doesn't really address the problem. Truth is, just like if the power went off as Stephens was about to serve to stay in the match, she has to learn to deal with that and not let it bother her. That's part of being a pro.
 
woodrow1029

woodrow1029

Hall of Fame
Coaching is already allowed on the WTA tour whenever the opponent has the trainer on court, and I don't think that's ridiculous. I don't think it helps the problem, but I like the idea of it.
 
S

sureshs

Bionic Poster
In the interview, she brazenly said she took a time out because she was choking. What was the official reason she gave to the umpire?
 
arche3

arche3

Banned
sureshs said:
In the interview, she brazenly said she took a time out because she was choking. What was the official reason she gave to the umpire?
Click to expand...

No she didn't man. She said she couldn't breath. The video is all over the place. She said she was choking. But when asked about the medical she said she was unable to breath.
 
S

sureshs

Bionic Poster
arche3 said:
No she didn't man. She said she couldn't breath. The video is all over the place. She said she was choking. But when asked about the medical she said she was unable to breath.
Click to expand...

Then that is what the umpire has to go with. You cannot conduct polygraph tests on the court.
 
N

NadalDramaQueen

Guest
adidasman said:
I think what Azarenka did was appalling, but I also don't see how you can change it. If the injury is legitimate, what are you going to do? You're actually going to ask the injured played to forfeit a game if it's their opponent's serve? That's ridiculous. And the "well, now you get to have your coach on court" idea is fraught with all kinds of problems, and doesn't really address the problem. Truth is, just like if the power went off as Stephens was about to serve to stay in the match, she has to learn to deal with that and not let it bother her. That's part of being a pro.
Click to expand...

Read Woodrow's post. It is a similar to how cramping is handled. Is that ridiculous?

I really don't see what the problem is. It solves the problem of people using MTOs for gamesmanship reasons, and it still allows players a chance in the match if they get injured. It will also generally stop people from taking other ridiculous timeouts (such as a player's tape being too tight) right before the opponent serves for the set, which is an outrage, honestly.
 
arche3

arche3

Banned
sureshs said:
Then that is what the umpire has to go with. You cannot conduct polygraph tests on the court.
Click to expand...

If azi told the umpire and doctor she is choking I don't think she would be allowed the MTO. Obviously she told them it was a medical issue.

After the match she said she choked when asked what happened at the end. Then the next interview she was asked specifically what the MTO was for. She said breathing issues. So she wanted it checked out.

Not saying she faked it or it was real. There is no way to know. And it is part of the rules. Stephens could of easily won that last service game. I can't apply the logic that because azi took a MTO stephens lost her service game. She lost all her previous serves just about as well. If anyone needed a time out Sloan did lol.
 
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mariecon

mariecon

Hall of Fame
arche3 said:
If azi told the umpire and doctor she is choking I don't think she would be allowed the MTO. Obviously she told them it was a medical issue.

After the match she said she choked when asked what happened at the end. Then the next interview she was asked specifically what the MTO was for. She said breathing issues. So she wanted it checked out.

Not saying she faked it or it was real. There is no way to know. And it is part of the rules. Stephens could of easily won that last service game. I can't apply the logic that because azi took a MTO stephens lost her service game. She lost all her previous serves just about as well. If anyone needed a time out Sloan did lol.
Click to expand...

She still shouldn't be allowed to take the MTO on her opponent's serve. At the very least a player deserves to lose a game if they aren't fit enough. That would mean just standing there while Sloane served a love game. Then she could have her MTO.:twisted: When she got back on court it would be 5-5. Much fairer.
 
arche3

arche3

Banned
mariecon said:
She still shouldn't be allowed to take the MTO on her opponent's serve. At the very least a player deserves to lose a game if they aren't fit enough. That would mean just standing there while Sloane served a love game. Then she could have her MTO.:twisted: When she got back on court it would be 5-5. Much fairer.
Click to expand...

Fair or not they are playing for money. This isnt USTA league matches. A pro has these obstacles to overcome. Sloan could of buckled down to actually win her service.

You cannot disregard MTO because you think it is head games. What about the time azi passed out from a concussion and had to be carried off the court forfeiting the match? Or the other time when she suffered a heat stroke and had to forfeit yet again.
 
volleygirl

volleygirl

Rookie
arche3 said:
Fair or not they are playing for money. This isnt USTA league matches. A pro has these obstacles to overcome. Sloan could of buckled down to actually win her service.

You cannot disregard MTO because you think it is head games. What about the time azi passed out from a concussion and had to be carried off the court forfeiting the match? Or the other time when she suffered a heat stroke and had to forfeit yet again.
Click to expand...


What about those instances? If shes not in the condition to play in that weather where the other players are, then she should lose those matches, not be bailed out by some bogus rule.
 
S

SoCal10s

Hall of Fame
this is worth a good try :: got this from another thread ... in college tennis..

MENS DIVISION 1

1. If a player takes a Medical Time-Out, he will receive a point penalty. This point penalty is not part of the progressive point penalty schedule for code violations.

2. A player can take 1 Medical Time-Out per match.

3. A player can take 1 Medical Time-Out in the warm-up, and 1 Medical Time-Out in the match (for the same condition ONLY). If the player takes a Medical Time-Out in the warm-up, he still receives a point penalty, and then if he takes one in the match for the same condition, he will receive another point penalty.

4. If a player takes a bathroom break during or immediately after the warm-up, it will be considered his ONLY Medical Time-Out for the entire match, and of course, he will receive a point penalty.

5. A player can take an emergency bathroom break during the match (as long as he has not had a Medical Time Out already). If he takes an emergency bathroom break that is not at a changeover or set break, it will be considered his one Medical Time Out for the match (maximum of 3 minutes), and he will receive, yep you got it, a point penalty.

6. Medical Time-Outs are now limited to 3 minutes ONLY! No evaluation time allowed. When the trainer puts his/her hand on the player, the 3 minutes starts. If the trainer discusses the injury before hands-on, the chair umpire can allow 1 or 2 quick questions, but then the trainer and player must decide if a medical time-out will be taken. If yes, the 3 minute clock starts.

7. In the past, if a player was losing a match, and looked over at the scores and saw that his teammate was about to wrap up the dual, he could take a medical time-out down match point, hoping to stall his match until the dual was decided, to avoid a loss on his record, and cheat the opponent out of a win. Now, if a player is down match point, and requests a medical time-out, he will immediately be assessed a point penalty (as opposed to after the medical time-out at any other time of the match), and the match will be over.
 
arche3

arche3

Banned
volleygirl said:
What about those instances? If shes not in the condition to play in that weather where the other players are, then she should lose those matches, not be bailed out by some bogus rule.
Click to expand...

The point was in those previous matches the rules dictated a forfeit. She was not fit to play. The azi vs slaon match it was a MTO. This is the rule. She is allowed it.
 
A

adidasman

Professional
NadalDramaQueen said:
Read Woodrow's post. It is a similar to how cramping is handled. Is that ridiculous?

I really don't see what the problem is. It solves the problem of people using MTOs for gamesmanship reasons, and it still allows players a chance in the match if they get injured. It will also generally stop people from taking other ridiculous timeouts (such as a player's tape being too tight) right before the opponent serves for the set, which is an outrage, honestly.
Click to expand...
What do you do if the injured player is down 5-4 and their opponent is serving? You give the match to his/her opponent because they got injured?
 
S

slowfox

Professional
Bartelby said:
That's a good idea. It costs you one game if you want a MTO. I'm sure that will fix the problem.
Click to expand...

mariecon said:
She still shouldn't be allowed to take the MTO on her opponent's serve. At the very least a player deserves to lose a game if they aren't fit enough. That would mean just standing there while Sloane served a love game. Then she could have her MTO.:twisted: When she got back on court it would be 5-5. Much fairer.
Click to expand...

Being fit, physically and mentally, is a part of the game. If you don't have what it takes, then you should be penalized.

"I'm tired today, let's finish the match tomorrow when I'm rested." - How would that fly..?
 
SoCalJay

SoCalJay

Semi-Pro
adidasman said:
What do you do if the injured player is down 5-4 and their opponent is serving? You give the match to his/her opponent because they got injured?
Click to expand...

Absolutely. It isn't the opponent's fault that the person was injured, cramping, mentally choking, or out of gas due to mediocre fitness. I think they need to to one of two things:

1. Impose a game penalty for an MTO like someone suggested earlier on this thread.

OR

2. Formalize the process by creating a time out rule where a player gets, say, one 3 minute time out per 3-set match (2 timeouts for a 5-set match) that can ONLY be used on your serve. The timeout could be used for whatever (even a coaching visit). If a person requires an additional timeout -> game penalty.
 
D

DMan

Professional
sureshs said:
Why don't you play in 105 degrees weather and show us?
Click to expand...

I've played 3 hour matches, as a NON-PROFESSIONAL twice Azarenka's age, and didn't have to take an injury time out due to nerves after only 80 minutes of play, with a 90 second break with a nice little courtside sun roof!
 
D

DMan

Professional
ultradr said:
well, it sounds like she was at least honest. no?
Click to expand...

Honest? Oh yeah, why didn't she say so in the presser afterwards:

"Yup, I manipulated the rules, to call an 'injury time out' even thought he injury was just nerves."
 
D

DMan

Professional
adidasman said:
I think what Azarenka did was appalling, but I also don't see how you can change it. If the injury is legitimate, what are you going to do? You're actually going to ask the injured played to forfeit a game if it's their opponent's serve? That's ridiculous. And the "well, now you get to have your coach on court" idea is fraught with all kinds of problems, and doesn't really address the problem. Truth is, just like if the power went off as Stephens was about to serve to stay in the match, she has to learn to deal with that and not let it bother her. That's part of being a pro.
Click to expand...

It was appalling. So what happened with the way the game used to be played:

Play is continuous!

Plain and simple.

Oh, you are "injured" and can't continue? Oh well. Game, set, and match! You lose!

EVERYONE, including Azarenka KNOWS her injury was bogus. She took a "medical timeout" for 10 minutes! Because she was nervous!

If tennis leadership doesn't address this now, the sport is toast. Or at least women's tennis will be. Especially with Azarenka as #1. And don't forget her abominable grunting.

Women's tennis continues to have an image problem. Stacy Allaster doesn';t get it. She'll just put out press releases saying how much the game has grown, and how attendance is up. Forgetting to note that attendance is up ONLY when the women play at events that are co-ed, or used to be men's events. Young stars like Sloane Stephens are great. But when the dominant player isn't even close to being ranked#1. And the former #1 (Wozniacki) was a player devoid of anything special, and the current #1 is a confirmed cheater and horrific grunter, the media, fans, and sponsors will continue to treat the women's game for exactly what it is: A JOKE!
 
TheCheese

TheCheese

Professional
I think they should allow MTOs only in between sets, at the very most. If you're not fit to play, you should lose.
 
D

DMan

Professional
arche3 said:
Fair or not they are playing for money. This isnt USTA league matches. A pro has these obstacles to overcome. Sloan could of buckled down to actually win her service.

You cannot disregard MTO because you think it is head games. What about the time azi passed out from a concussion and had to be carried off the court forfeiting the match? Or the other time when she suffered a heat stroke and had to forfeit yet again.
Click to expand...

She is supposedly a professional tennis player. If you can't handle the heat, then DON'T PLAY!!!!

Tennis is a SPORT. Played outdoors. Ina ll sorts of conditions. If you haven't trained for it, you don't deserve to be paid millions of dollars to do it.

Why don't they just take someone from the stands, and put them on court, without any training, and ask them to play in 100 degree heat.

Anyone, and I mean anyone who defends Azarenka is completely oblivious to reality!
 
D

DMan

Professional
DMan said:
There has to be a rule change NOW in the game of professional tennis:

NO INJURY TIME OUTS MID-MATCH!

I thought the Azarenka episode was an all-time low.

Azarenka admitted to choking, and that's why she needed to go off court - for 10 minutes - so she could get a massage and relax!

I mean it is pathetic.

Tennis went completely the opposite from the Shuzo Matsuoka days when he cramped horribly on court. Now, a player needs to just fake an injury to not only get on court treatment, but be able to leave the court MID-MATCH, and yet still continue!

I mean, whatever happened to "Play shall be continuous" ?!?

Tennis is a sport. Participating in a sport means you are in physical condition to play continuously. And yes, you have to be in good mental condition to play continuously. It ISN'T a team sport. Substitutions aren't allowed. And apart from the side changes where players get a "time out" break, you don't get to pick and choose when you need a break to physically and mentally recover.

Azarenka is the lowest of the low when it comes to #1 ranked players. Her grunting is atrocious. She's never been popular off court with tournament officials. And she practically resorted to cheating today, because she was choking so badly. I wish she had played Serena in the SF. Even if Azarenka were ahead, I guarantee you that Azarenka's off court trick would have fired Serena up so much, she would have beaten her even if Serena had one arm and one leg. Serena's had her moments, but in the majors, she fights until the very end.

It was a sad day for tennis today. And the sport will continue to be devalued when the rules remain as they are!

There is no excuse for how pathetic the current rules are. Horrible shame for the sport!
Click to expand...

The whole tennis media has been all over this, saying exactly what I said.

TRAVESTY!
RULE CHANGE NEEDED NOW!
 
Kalin

Kalin

Legend
Good to see this thread finally taking a proper direction.

In all sports (please correct me if I am wrong) if a player gets injured they need to keep playing or be replaced or, if it as an individual sport, they have to keep playing or forfeit (i.e. lose) the match.

In some sports it is acknowledged that if a match continues longer than expected then both sides can get some extra rest/treatment. An example would be the sit-dowm/massage time allowed before extra time in soccer or the extended break before a 5th set under the old volleyball rules (not sure abt the new puss*fied rules where every serve is a point to make TV audiences happy; I stopped watching).

Actually it may not be a bad idea to allow players some extra (like a few more minutes) rest before a fifth (for the girls, a third) set. As long it is the same for both players.

These on-court (or off-court even) massages are embarrassing

Edit: Admittedly, in soccer, if a player gets injured during the game they can get treatment on the pitch as long as it is short. For longer treatment they must leave the pitch and the team plays one man down until the player returns. However, as a contact sport where 22 people kick each other all the time for 90 minutes it makes sense. Plus, now referees add time to the end of the game so players can't run the clock by lying down all the time. And yes, time-wasting in soccer it still happens but it doesn't man tennis has to follow that particular 'tradition'
 
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woodrow1029

woodrow1029

Hall of Fame
Don't people realize how STUPID it would be if tennis was a "keep playing or quit" sport?

Think about it. 5 set final. One guy rolls his ankle early in the fifth set. Not too bad but bad enough to continue. We have this great thing called a trainer and athletic tape. We can make it feel better, and the good match can continue.

Or, the player keeps fighting, risking major injury, making the quality of play poor, and ruining it.

Or, he should be more fit, not roll his ankle, and quit.

That will happen if they eliminate the MTO.

People are taking 1 moron taking advantage (legally) of the rule, and people say this should be a play or quit sport. The most amusing are the clueless ones comparing it to a team sport.
 
Stinkdyr

Stinkdyr

Professional
Tennis should do what Squash does......if you are really injured and need 5 minutes to be treated, you default the remainder of the set, then take your 5 minutes MAXIMUM, then you come out and finish the match....or forfeit.
 
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