Other than playing NADAL, FED has never done so much running!

No wonder instead of looking 31 vs Murray he looked 41. Fed has never been used to being jerked left to right except when playing nadal and we all know how that ends up. Now with Murray and djoker fed has to do this more regulary on a hardcourt clay and grass and he cannot handle it even if he was 23. At FO12 djoker beat him straight sets then in the Olympics after fed looked more refreshed he had no gas vs Murray and YES he wanted to win. It's one thing schooling tomic raonic and tsonga but against a fit nadal Murray and djoker unless grass on a hot day it's all she wrote.

Butt hurt..

17 > 1.

17 > 6.

17 > 11.

If you knew the game decently, you will know 6 years age difference is huge at the top level. There is no shame in losing in 5 sets at age 31 to a world No 3. Stop whining Baby.

tennisaddict said:

Butt hurt..

17 > 1.

17 > 6.

17 > 11.

If you knew the game decently, you will know 6 years age difference is huge at the top level. There is no shame in losing in 5 sets at age 31 to a world No 3. Stop whining Baby.

Click to expand...

Lol stop whining about six years it's pathetic and know one buys it, how insecure with the slam count lol.

djokovic2008 said:

Lol stop whining about six years it's pathetic and know one buys it, how insecure with the slam count lol.

Click to expand...

You clearly know nothing about modern tennis if you think 6 years at the top level is nothing.

djokovic2008 said:

Lol stop whining about six years it's pathetic and know one buys it, how insecure with the slam count lol.

Click to expand...

Actually many experts mention it fairly often. I know it sucks to know that Djokovic isn't as good as Federer; I know it bothers you, but try to undestand that's just the way things are.

djokovic2008 said:

No wonder instead of looking 31 vs Murray he looked 41. Fed has never been used to being jerked left to right except when playing nadal and we all know how that ends up. Now with Murray and djoker fed has to do this more regulary on a hardcourt clay and grass and he cannot handle it even if he was 23. At FO12 djoker beat him straight sets then in the Olympics after fed looked more refreshed he had no gas vs Murray and YES he wanted to win. It's one thing schooling tomic raonic and tsonga but against a fit nadal Murray and djoker unless grass on a hot day it's all she wrote.

Click to expand...

Eh, that's speculation (also it's couldn't have handled it BTW), Fed isn't 23 (in fact he's almost a decade older) so we'll never know, I mean you can be sure of it JV but it's impossible to prove and you're hardly the most unbiased source now.

We'll see how Nadal will do at 31-32 and compare, should be very interesting.

djokovic2008 said:

Lol stop whining about six years it's pathetic and know one buys it, how insecure with the slam count lol.

Click to expand...

what is insecurity there ? It is a fact.

Open a thread about Federer being made to run around when Novak or Murray get to 17. Till such time , go and suck your pacifier.

Cup8489 said:

Actually many experts mention it fairly often. I know it sucks to know that Djokovic isn't as good as Federer; I know it bothers you, but try to undestand that's just the way things are.

Click to expand...

For the last time, he's not a Novak fan.

djokovic2008 said:

Lol stop whining about six years it's pathetic and know one buys it, how insecure with the slam count lol.

Click to expand...

6 years is a lot for tennis. This is not golf.

Looks like the bait attracted a few fish, I'm gonna love when Murray and djoker hit 31 and still in great condition making your excuses look even more pathetic.

zagor said:

For the last time, he's not a Novak fan.

Click to expand...

Oh zagor don't you owe me an apology, as I predicted djoker to win AO 13 and you were in doubt and told me to wait and see remember ?

djokovic2008 said:

Lol stop whining about six years it's pathetic and know one buys it, how insecure with the slam count lol.

Click to expand...

When Djokovic is 30....I doubt he would be in the top 100....so stop crying that your boy isn't a versatile efficient player. Pretty pathetic that Djokovic, Murray and Nadal struggle with a 30+ year old......tennis era is getting weaker.

Djokovic is just a transition era.....

djokovic2008 said:

Oh zagor don't you owe me an apology, as I predicted djoker to win AO 13 and you were in doubt and told me to wait and see remember ?

Click to expand...

Eh? What on earth are you talking about? I always maintained that Novak is the 1st favourite for AO with Murray being a close second.

djokovic2008 said:

Looks like the bait attracted a few fish, I'm gonna love when Murray and djoker hit 31 and still in great condition making your excuses look even more pathetic.

Click to expand...

No, not Murray or Novak but Rafa, you may have fooled others here but you don't fool me.

kishnabe said:

When Djokovic is 30....I doubt he would be in the top 100....so stop crying that your boy isn't a versatile efficient player. Pretty pathetic that Djokovic, Murray and Nadal struggle with a 30+ year old......tennis era is getting weaker.

Djokovic is just a transition era.....

Click to expand...

No, it's not pathetic, Fed also struggled (relatively speaking) with 34 and 35 year old Agassi.

Fed is not as good as he once was but he's still a very tough player to beat when playing well.

That said, I don't think Novak will age as well as Fed did.

posters having an alternative username is bad enough already, but being a fake fanbase is just as bad.

I wonder if MTF have the same problem at this magnitude.

kishnabe said:

When Djokovic is 30....I doubt he would be in the top 100.....

Click to expand...

you need to check your head

zagor said:

No, it's not pathetic, Fed also struggled (relatively speaking) with 34 and 35 year old Agassi.

Fed is not as good as he once was but he's still a very tough player to beat when playing well.

That said, I don't think Novak will age as well as Fed did.

Click to expand...

Agassi seemed like he was on peds....unbelieble stockness in his 30's, and was far more physically fit than his 20 year old counterpart. More mature as well.

Federer was better in his 20's......you can't say that about Agassi.

If Agassi was mentally mature, worked harder like in his 30's when he was 20.....he would own Sampras and everyone else.....would have whooped even prime Federer.

djokovic2008 said:

Lol stop whining about six years it's pathetic and know one buys it, how insecure with the slam count lol.

Click to expand...

We'll talk in 2019 if Djokovic doesn't retire by then of course.

zagor said:

No, it's not pathetic, Fed also struggled (relatively speaking) with 34 and 35 year old Agassi.

Fed is not as good as he once was but he's still a very tough player to beat when playing well.

That said, I don't think Novak will age as well as Fed did.

Click to expand...

It's possible that he will age better IMO just because of Federer's mono...Roger declined prematurely and was a lot worse at 26-28 IMO than he should have been and I think its due to that damn disease. It's quite possible Djokovic will be better (relatively speaking) at that age than Roger was even if he shouldn't be according to playing style.

kishnabe said:

Agassi seemed like he was on peds....unbelieble stockness in his 30's, and was far more physically fit than his 20 year old counterpart. More mature as well.

Federer was better in his 20's......you can't say that about Agassi.

Click to expand...

Agassi's career curve was unique (he won 5 out of his 8 slams at the age of 29+) but when fit and inform during his younger days his level of tennis was still better than what he was capable of at the age of 34 and 35, his highest level of play came in 1995 (and to a lesser degree in 1999) although yes he also had years in which he was a complete mess (like 1996 and 1997 for example).

kishnabe said:

If Agassi was mentally mature, worked harder like in his 30's when he was 20.....he would own Sampras and everyone else.....would have whooped even prime Federer.

Click to expand...

Possibly, he was the most gifted pure ballstriker I've ever seen.

Peak Fed struggled with 34-35 yr old Agassi.

Current gen beat peak Fed when they were teens. Apart from Safin playing the match of his life and Nalbandian getting 3 wins from 04-07, the entire old gen couldn't manage a single win vs Federer - in and out of majors. Current gen >>>>> old gen

kishnabe said:

Agassi seemed like he was on peds....unbelieble stockness in his 30's, and was far more physically fit than his 20 year old counterpart. More mature as well.

Federer was better in his 20's......you can't say that about Agassi.

If Agassi was mentally mature, worked harder like in his 30's when he was 20.....he would own Sampras and everyone else.....would have whooped even prime Federer.

Click to expand...

Not, really. Agassi was physically stronger in this 30s (no doubt about it, he could bench press much more for example) but he was wayyyyyy slower than in his early and mid 20s. In fact people always talk about how slow Agassi was because they seem to only remember 30+ aged Agassi (that really was very slow). But Agassi was much much faster when he was 18-26.

Not only Agassi, but Sampras, Chang, Courier...(all players indeed) were so much slower in their late 20s (and 30s) than in their early-mid 20s.

By the way, also Sampras, Chang and Courier looked stronger (bulkier) in their late 20s, in the period of time when they were clearly slower movers.

In tennis it is probably better to be as slim as possible (that is why all tennis players I've seen in person look sooo slim).

tennisaddict said:

Butt hurt..

17 > 1.

17 > 6.

17 > 11.

If you knew the game decently, you will know 6 years age difference is huge at the top level. There is no shame in losing in 5 sets at age 31 to a world No 3. Stop whining Baby.

Click to expand...

You forgot to list 17 > 14

President said:

It's possible that he will age better IMO just because of Federer's mono...Roger declined prematurely and was a lot worse at 26-28 IMO than he should have been and I think its due to that damn disease. It's quite possible Djokovic will be better (relatively speaking) at that age than Roger was even if he shouldn't be according to playing style.

Click to expand...

Well Djokovic is 25 now, so it's possible. He looks in good form, he'll likely keep the good form for a few more years and not decline sharply.

The_Order said:

Peak Fed struggled with 34-35 yr old Agassi.

Current gen beat peak Fed when they were teens. Apart from Safin playing the match of his life and Nalbandian getting 3 wins from 04-07, the entire old gen couldn't manage a single win vs Federer - in and out of majors. Current gen >>>>> old gen

Click to expand...

s
thats why old broke down hewitt took a set off djoker at last year's AO and went to 3 sets against djoker during the olympics.

zagor said:

No, it's not pathetic, Fed also struggled (relatively speaking) with 34 and 35 year old Agassi.

Fed is not as good as he once was but he's still a very tough player to beat when playing well.

That said, I don't think Novak will age as well as Fed did.

Click to expand...

Now we superimpose Murrays name and see the direct correlation, As he has struggled with Fed, and lets make it very clear, Murray is an OPPORTUNIST, had it not been for Tsonga the Match could have gone either way, in=stead of Murray relying on his unrealistic stamina and making every point a marathon on the already too slow surface.

tennisaddict said:

Butt hurt..

17 > 1.

17 > 6.

17 > 11.

If you knew the game decently, you will know 6 years age difference is huge at the top level. There is no shame in losing in 5 sets at age 31 to a world No 3. Stop whining Baby.

Click to expand...

According to Lendl, stamina and endurance actually increase with age, it's the sharp quickness that somewhat declines. So Fed losing to Murray had nothing to do with the length of the match. Murray is just a better player now than 4 years ago.

SLD76 said:

s
thats why old broke down hewitt took a set off djoker at last year's AO and went to 3 sets against djoker during the olympics.

Click to expand...

add to that :

roddick owning djoker for quite some time, winning 8 sets in a row , including @ the AO

roddick beating murray in wimbledon

roddick thrashing nadal/djoker @ dubai

roddick beating nadal in miami on a slow HC where nadal got very few points on 1st serve return

safin thrashing djoker in wimbledon 2008

haas beating djoker in wimbledon 2009

hewitt thrashing delpo in wimbledon 2009

roddick thrashing berdych in wimbledon 2009

nalbandian tearing apart nadal in madrid/paris 2007

davydenko owning nadal 6-1 h2h on HC, ripping apart delpo in YEC 2009, owning berdych 9-2 h2h

gonzalez ripping apart nadal in AO 2007

ljubicic beating nadal in IW 2010

etc etc .....

The hands goes first before the legs. Reaction time just isn't the same as you get older.

abmk said:

add to that :

roddick owning djoker for quite some time, winning 8 sets in a row , including @ the AO

roddick beating murray in wimbledon

roddick thrashing nadal/djoker @ dubai

roddick beating nadal in miami on a slow HC where nadal got very few points on 1st serve return

safin thrashing djoker in wimbledon 2008

haas beating djoker in wimbledon 2009

hewitt thrashing delpo in wimbledon 2009

roddick thrashing berdych in wimbledon 2009

nalbandian tearing apart nadal in madrid/paris 2007

davydenko owning nadal 6-1 h2h on HC, ripping apart delpo in YEC 2009, owning berdych 9-2 h2h

gonzalez ripping apart nadal in AO 2007

ljubicic beating nadal in IW 2010

etc etc .....

Click to expand...

Wow you listed all their wins against Rafa and Novak. So what are you trying to say? They were better? They must be better yeah? In that case Rafa > Fed because Rafa has beat Fed EIGHTEEN TIMES.

Truth is, they are damn good players, but they couldn't bring their best consistently enough to become multiple major champions like Rafa and Novak have. If you're trying to make the case that they are anywhere near as great as Rafa and Novak you're kidding yourself.

The_Order said:

Peak Fed struggled with 34-35 yr old Agassi.

Current gen beat peak Fed when they were teens. Apart from Safin playing the match of his life and Nalbandian getting 3 wins from 04-07, the entire old gen couldn't manage a single win vs Federer - in and out of majors. Current gen >>>>> old gen

Click to expand...

Dude 2003 fed 6-3 6-0 6-4 in houston. I dont get why people say he struggled against agassi just because of ONE match in the 2004 USO

djokovic2008 said:

No wonder instead of looking 31 vs Murray he looked 41. Fed has never been used to being jerked left to right except when playing nadal and we all know how that ends up. Now with Murray and djoker fed has to do this more regulary on a hardcourt clay and grass and he cannot handle it even if he was 23. At FO12 djoker beat him straight sets then in the Olympics after fed looked more refreshed he had no gas vs Murray and YES he wanted to win. It's one thing schooling tomic raonic and tsonga but against a fit nadal Murray and djoker unless grass on a hot day it's all she wrote.

Click to expand...

are you out of your mind? such a ridiculous thread.

The_Order said:

Peak Fed struggled with 34-35 yr old Agassi.

Current gen beat peak Fed when they were teens. Apart from Safin playing the match of his life and Nalbandian getting 3 wins from 04-07, the entire old gen couldn't manage a single win vs Federer - in and out of majors. Current gen >>>>> old gen

Click to expand...

So winning in 5 sets against agassi is struggling but beating Federer inn 5 is beating him.

RF20Lennon said:

Dude 2003 fed 6-3 6-0 6-4 in houston. I dont get why people say he struggled against agassi just because of ONE match in the 2004 USO

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I'm assuming you missed the 2005 US Open final...

joeri888 said:

So winning in 5 sets against agassi is struggling but beating Federer inn 5 is beating him.

Click to expand...

Not sure what your point is but when the current gen were teens-20 they didn't play 5 sets to beat him (only Rafa had them with him anyway)

The_Order said:

Wow you listed all their wins against Rafa and Novak. So what are you trying to say? They were better? They must be better yeah? In that case Rafa > Fed because Rafa has beat Fed EIGHTEEN TIMES.

Truth is, they are damn good players, but they couldn't bring their best consistently enough to become multiple major champions like Rafa and Novak have. If you're trying to make the case that they are anywhere near as great as Rafa and Novak you're kidding yourself.

Click to expand...

actually, no, not even close ... that wasn't a complete list of anything ( I didn't mention haas' win over djoker in halle in 2009, nalby's win over djoker in madrid 2007 etc ) , nor was it purely against rafa or novak ...I mentioned murray, delpo, berdych etc too ...

novak in 2007-10 wasn't that much ahead of them , esp in 2009/2010.. and even then, the places where he was at his best, HC, in slams, it was federer who faced him multiple times, not your boy rafa .....

in 2011, when djoker was tearing apart the field, it was post-prime fed who beat him @ RG breaking his streak and came closest to beating him one more time @ the USO ; your boy rafa didn't come close @ a slam ...closest he got in any match was the breaker in miami ....

from 2011 onwards, fed is 2-3 vs djoker in slams, nadal is 1-3, murray is 1-3

and this is well past his prime fed and nadal/murray in their primes .....

fed overtook djoker to get #1 ranking in the middle of 2012 ....the thought of a 30+ year old overtaking peak fed to get to #1 is LOLworthy .... :lol:

the likes of hewitt, safin,roddick,nalbandian,old agassi etc combined>> murray,delpo, berdych,tsonga etc combined ...

murray of course may go on to win multiple slams, but he wouldn't have faced fed near his best like those guys did when he wins

also as nadal improved and hit his peak, fed declined from his .... so that more or less balanced out the fields ...

abmk said:

actually, no, not even close ... that wasn't a complete list of anything ( I didn't mention haas' win over djoker in halle in 2009, nalby's win over djoker in madrid 2007 etc ) , nor was it purely against rafa or novak ...I mentioned murray, delpo, berdych etc too ...

Click to expand...

Oh you left a couple out. Big deal. My main argument isn't even about Berdych, Delpo and Murray. They are however a bigger threat than Hewitt and old Agassi were.

The real competition is with Rafa and Novak pal.

abmk said:

novak in 2007-10 wasn't that much ahead of them , esp in 2009/2010.. and even then, the places where he was at his best, HC, in slams, it was federer who faced him multiple times, not your boy rafa .....

Click to expand...

Didn't Novak change his racquet in 2009 IIRC? Can't remember exactly when he made the change but it's a big reason that his form slumped imo for the sake of a contract.

Let's look at Federer facing Novak at HC slams from late 2007 onwards (2007 AO shouldn't count because Novak wasn't top 4 at that stage).

07 USO final, Novak played pretty well but nerves clearly got to him playing in his first slam final. Another win to Fed against a first time slam finalist.

08 AO Novak won, Fed had mono, but Novak was playing very well he most likely would've beat Fed even if he was healthy. It's not like Fed was showing any signs of being hampered by it too much, he outlasted Tipsarevic in a 5 setter and then it was business as usual against pre prime Berdych and Blake, he won them matches reasonably comfortably. You like to say Hewitt troubled healthy Rafa more at 2010 RG than at 09 RG when Rafa wasn't in the right mindset, well Berdych troubled healthy Fed in 2009 AO more than mono Fed in 08 AO...

08 USO Fed outplayed him. 2 close sets.

09 USO Fed again outplayed him in 3 close sets.

10 USO Novak won in 5, Fed wasn't able to outplay him.

With Rafa their only HC slam meeting was 2010 USO where Rafa won in 4.

Rafa also beat Novak in 08 Olympics.

At the same time though, Rafa was drawing Murray a lot more than Federer especially at Wimbledon where overall, it's a fair argument to say Murray is more of a threat on grass than Novak is.

abmk said:

in 2011, when djoker was tearing apart the field, it was post-prime fed who beat him @ RG breaking his streak and came closest to beating him one more time @ the USO ; your boy rafa didn't come close @ a slam ...closest he got in any match was the breaker in miami ....

from 2011 onwards, fed is 2-3 vs djoker in slams, nadal is 1-3, murray is 1-3

Click to expand...

So? When Fed was tearing apart the field from 04-07 it was pre prime Nadal that troubled him most.

From 2011 onwards Fed has played Novak 5 times at majors and Rafa 4 times. Fed has one more win than Rafa but he's had one more shot at him too. Truth is, it's 3 wins to Rafa against Novak (including 3 in a row) vs 3 wins for Fed.

Overall Rafa is 19-14 vs Novak, whereas Fed is 16-13. Rafa is 18-10 vs Fed. Murray is 11-9 vs Fed whereas Rafa is 13-5 vs Murray. Novak is 11-7 vs Murray.

CLEARLY Rafa has performed better against his top 4 counterparts than the rest. He owns a leading h2h against ALL 3 of them. Fed owns a leading h2h against only Novak and that's about to change

Oh and if you want to whinge about Fed being post prime against them, don't because pre prime Nadal went 8-6 vs peak Fed. You can't have it both ways. peak Fed lost to Rafa, Novak and Murray when they were teen-20 yr olds.

abmk said:

and this is well past his prime fed and nadal/murray in their primes .....

Click to expand...

Funny how well past his prime Fed has dealt with prime Nadal better than 04-06 super power peak Fed dealt with teenage puberty Nadal.

abmk said:

fed overtook djoker to get #1 ranking in the middle of 2012 ....the thought of a 30+ year old overtaking peak fed to get to #1 is LOLworthy .... :lol:

Click to expand...

Well we'll just have to wait and see how well Rafa and Novak play when they are 30. Laver won THE grand slam when he was 31 IINM...

abmk said:

the likes of hewitt, safin,roddick,nalbandian,old agassi etc combined>> murray,delpo, berdych,tsonga etc combined ...

Click to expand...

Convenient how you leave out Rafa and Novak. Let's pretend they don't exist now shall we?

abmk said:

murray of course may go on to win multiple slams, but he wouldn't have faced fed near his best like those guys did when he wins

also as nadal improved and hit his peak, fed declined from his .... so that more or less balanced out the fields ...

Click to expand...

Fed was playing better at WIM 08 than 07. Rafa still beat him. Rafa was beating PEAK Fed when he was a teenager. He also has a leading outdoor HC h2h against peak Fed. It would've been 3-0 if it wasn't for his uber choke in Miami 05 :lol:

But fair is fair, Rafa choking was his own fault, it counts more against Nadal than against Fed. Just like anytime Fed choked against Rafa (which according to you ****s is almost everytime) also counts against Fed's legacy more than against Nadal.

In the match I saw Roger initially trying to put some sting behind his forehand only to have his best shots counterpunched back deep into his court. Once that became a trend early in the first set, Roger seemed to settle on a strategy based around out-foxing Andy as opposed to outhitting him. Soon enough, though, Andy realized he could hit through Roger (as Roger had shown he wasn't up to defending fast-paced). And from then on, I think, Andy sort of had his way with Federer off of the ground, even smirking at Roger once or twice. Andy actually cut Roger to pieces, I thought, and only rarely seemed to be outside his comfort zone. I think once a few of Roger's best forehands hit from inside his baseline came whistling back deep, Roger resorted to a cat-n-mouse game plan that almost worked but perhaps for all the miles that he'd logged by that fifth set. Interestingly, when Roger was looking early-on to unleash his forehand, he did in fact get a hold of more than one ball- and pummel it fairly hard; but then, Andy covered and sent it right back each time, so it's not exactly as though Roger wasn't hitting his forehand well because, he started out hitting it, I would say, just well enough...but he seemed to abandon trying to hit through Andy for winners a little too early in the match, it seemed to me.

The_Order said:

I'm assuming you missed the 2005 US Open final...

Click to expand...

So winning in 4 is a struggle now? LOL PATHETIC.

djokovic2008 said:

Lol stop whining about six years it's pathetic and know one buys it, how insecure with the slam count lol.

Click to expand...

You reallly don't think 6 years is huge in professional sports like tennis, basketball? (now that's pathetic...)

djokovic2008 said:

Lol stop whining about six years it's pathetic and know one buys it, how insecure with the slam count lol.

Click to expand...

Ha! You tell 'em Buster.

There's nothing more insecure than trying to defend a legend in the game, regardless of who it is.

Oh, well, apart from starting a thread to demean a legend in the game.

DeShaun said:

In the match I saw Roger initially trying to put some sting behind his forehand only to have his best shots counterpunched back deep into his court. Once that became a trend early in the first set, Roger seemed to settle on a strategy based around out-foxing Andy as opposed to outhitting him. Soon enough, though, Andy realized he could hit through Roger (as Roger had shown he wasn't up to defending fast-paced). And from then on, I think, Andy sort of had his way with Federer off of the ground, even smirking at Roger once or twice. Andy actually cut Roger to pieces, I thought, and only rarely seemed to be outside his comfort zone. I think once a few of Roger's best forehands hit from inside his baseline came whistling back deep, Roger resorted to a cat-n-mouse game plan that almost worked but perhaps for all the miles that he'd logged by that fifth set. Interestingly, when Roger was looking early-on to unleash his forehand, he did in fact get a hold of more than one ball- and pummel it fairly hard; but then, Andy covered and sent it right back each time, so it's not exactly as though Roger wasn't hitting his forehand well because, he started out hitting it, I would say, just well enough...but he seemed to abandon trying to hit through Andy for winners a little too early in the match, it seemed to me.

Click to expand...

Good analysis.

djokovic2008 said:

No wonder instead of looking 31 vs Murray he looked 41. Fed has never been used to being jerked left to right except when playing nadal and we all know how that ends up. Now with Murray and djoker fed has to do this more regulary on a hardcourt clay and grass and he cannot handle it even if he was 23. At FO12 djoker beat him straight sets then in the Olympics after fed looked more refreshed he had no gas vs Murray and YES he wanted to win. It's one thing schooling tomic raonic and tsonga but against a fit nadal Murray and djoker unless grass on a hot day it's all she wrote.

Click to expand...

Go back and check Fed's 2006 match history:
http://www.atpworldtour.com/Tennis/Players/Top-Players/Roger-Federer.aspx?t=pa&y=2006&m=s&e=0#

Ok now that you have seen how many consecutive finals he played and usually won, even thou masters were still mostly 6 matches and best of 5 finals, do you still have any questions?

Cup8489 said:

So winning in 4 is a struggle now? LOL PATHETIC.

Click to expand...

Yes, apparently it is.

So apart from 2008 FO, Rafa has struggled to beat Fed in every single one of their slam encounters! Fed is 5 years Rafa's senior yet Rafa always had a very difficult time to put away this Roger, even with Rafa's huge match-up advantage and even on Rafa's favorite GOATING surface. This Federer must be something special....

The_Order said:

Oh you left a couple out. Big deal. My main argument isn't even about Berdych, Delpo and Murray. They are however a bigger threat than Hewitt and old Agassi were.

Click to expand...

no, they weren't ...deal with it ...

The_Order said:

The real competition is with Rafa and Novak pal.

Click to expand...

see the below part for novak ...

The_Order said:

Didn't Novak change his racquet in 2009 IIRC? Can't remember exactly when he made the change but it's a big reason that his form slumped imo for the sake of a contract.

Let's look at Federer facing Novak at HC slams from late 2007 onwards (2007 AO shouldn't count because Novak wasn't top 4 at that stage).

07 USO final, Novak played pretty well but nerves clearly got to him playing in his first slam final. Another win to Fed against a first time slam finalist.

08 AO Novak won, Fed had mono, but Novak was playing very well he most likely would've beat Fed even if he was healthy. It's not like Fed was showing any signs of being hampered by it too much, he outlasted Tipsarevic in a 5 setter and then it was business as usual against pre prime Berdych and Blake, he won them matches reasonably comfortably. You like to say Hewitt troubled healthy Rafa more at 2010 RG than at 09 RG when Rafa wasn't in the right mindset, well Berdych troubled healthy Fed in 2009 AO more than mono Fed in 08 AO...

08 USO Fed outplayed him. 2 close sets.

09 USO Fed again outplayed him in 3 close sets.

10 USO Novak won in 5, Fed wasn't able to outplay him.

With Rafa their only HC slam meeting was 2010 USO where Rafa won in 4.

Rafa also beat Novak in 08 Olympics.

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yeah, fed played cr*p, yet djoker had to save MPs vs him in 2010 ... fed playing decent would've taken that match ....

regarding AO 2008, fed was up 5-3,30-0 and then went down to 5-7,1-4 ... lost 8 games, winning only one game in that period ... when were the other occasions something like that happened ? yeah, RG 2008 (playing cr*p vs peak nadal), olympics 2012 (tired after marathon vs murray), nalby TMC 2005 ( ankle injury ) , RG 2011 vs nadal ( meltdown after failing to convert SP )

fact is he had fever, which turned out to be mono, before the AO, which is why he didn't play any warmup ( not even Kooyong classic ) in 2008 , and from what I've read the effect of mono can be on and off .....

there were no reports whatsoever of nadal's 'injury' before he lost to soderling in RG 2009 ....

The_Order said:

At the same time though, Rafa was drawing Murray a lot more than Federer especially at Wimbledon where overall, it's a fair argument to say Murray is more of a threat on grass than Novak is.

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eh, what ? fed actually faced and beat the best version of murray in wimbledon 2012 ... it wasn't nadal who did that ...

wimbledon 2008, murray hadn't even won a master title by then , was nearly eliminated by gasquet in straights... djoker of course was eliminated by safin ..... but he had a close match vs nadal @ queens, murray as expected was pumelled by nadal in wim 08 ...

wimbledon 2010, fair enough, murray was tougher than novak here ...

wimbledon 2011, of course novak was better than murray there ..

fed of course beat them both in wim 12 ...

so that argument of yours is a massive fail ....

The_Order said:

So? When Fed was tearing apart the field from 04-07 it was pre prime Nadal that troubled him most.

From 2011 onwards Fed has played Novak 5 times at majors and Rafa 4 times. Fed has one more win than Rafa but he's had one more shot at him too. Truth is, it's 3 wins to Rafa against Novak (including 3 in a row) vs 3 wins for Fed.

Overall Rafa is 19-14 vs Novak, whereas Fed is 16-13. Rafa is 18-10 vs Fed. Murray is 11-9 vs Fed whereas Rafa is 13-5 vs Murray. Novak is 11-7 vs Murray.

CLEARLY Rafa has performed better against his top 4 counterparts than the rest. He owns a leading h2h against ALL 3 of them. Fed owns a leading h2h against only Novak and that's about to change

Oh and if you want to whinge about Fed being post prime against them, don't because pre prime Nadal went 8-6 vs peak Fed. You can't have it both ways. peak Fed lost to Rafa, Novak and Murray when they were teen-20 yr olds.

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yeah, only fed was 5-2 vs rafa off clay from 2004-07 ... rafa was already pretty good on clay from 2005 onwards ....

truth is nadal struggled far more vs 2011 novak than post-prime federer did ....deal with it ....

he can keep his overall h2hs vs them ( with the clay skew vs fed and to a lesser extent vs djok&peaking earlier ) while federer is off being clearly superior to him at 3 of the 4 slams and indoors as well .....

The_Order said:

Well we'll just have to wait and see how well Rafa and Novak play when they are 30. Laver won THE grand slam when he was 31 IINM...

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that's Rod Laver , not nadal or djokovic ...... nadal already skipped 2 slams just now because of injury problems ...

The_Order said:

Fed was playing better at WIM 08 than 07. Rafa still beat him. Rafa was beating PEAK Fed when he was a teenager. He also has a leading outdoor HC h2h against peak Fed. It would've been 3-0 if it wasn't for his uber choke in Miami 05 :lol:

But fair is fair, Rafa choking was his own fault, it counts more against Nadal than against Fed. Just like anytime Fed choked against Rafa (which according to you ****s is almost everytime) also counts against Fed's legacy more than against Nadal.

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eh, fed was sick @ miami 2004 and choked away dubai 2006 ...

fed was only a bit better coming into the finals in 2008 than he was in 2007 , but he was clearly better in the wimbledon 2007 final than he was in wimbledon 2008 ... esp the first 2 sets where the inconsistency & nerves were showing, I suppose the RG 2008 final was a big part of it ....