newyorkstadium
Professional
Or should it be open/neutral? Same for a Western grip?
It depends on a lot of variables, swing plane, swing speed and contact point on the racquet bed. My advice would be to keep the racquet face neutral/slightly closed. With a SW grip there is a tendency to close the face a little so dont worry too much.
This is the common mistake people make with the Semi-Western FH grip. If the racket head is close at contact you must run to the net to collect your ball.
Whatever the grip the racket head must be vertical at contact (not open, not close). This means for the SW FH Grip the contact point's height should be around chest level and further out in front.
I disagree with your assessment, though as you'll see it is only a slight disagreement.
Video evidence is showing that with an upward swing, though not particularly steep, and decent racket head speed, say enough to return a rally ball at over 70mph, the racket face can be slightly closed and still give decent topspin and net clearance. For some evidence of this with the pros, look at this blog post on the topspin forehands of Federer and Djokovic by a commonly cited technique blog.
http://blog.tennisspeed.com/
You'll see that there is now substantial video evidence showing angles less than 89degrees, though admittedly not a lot less, on rally balls hit by the pros.
Also, I think that a slightly closed racket face isn't needed on semi-western fh any more than an eastern fh. In either case, you can still topspin the ball with a slightly closed face.
I advise practicing this technique, especially if you hit the ball long a lot. Of course, if you close the racket face down and don't have a topspin swing path, you'll find yourself dumping balls into the net.
Who here swings a racquet at the speed equivalent to that of a professional tennis player?
Because obviously whatever Federer does, we should all be doing??
Who here swings a racquet at the speed equivalent to that of a professional tennis player?
Because obviously whatever Federer does, we should all be doing??
Who here swings a racquet at the speed equivalent to that of a professional tennis player?
Because obviously whatever Federer does, we should all be doing??
This is the common mistake people make with the Semi-Western FH grip. If the racket head is close at contact you must run to the net to collect your ball.
Whatever the grip the racket head must be vertical at contact (not open, not close). This means for the SW FH Grip the contact point's height should be around chest level and further out in front.
WRONG!
The racket face should ALWAYS be closed at contact for top spin. It's the swing path prior contact which is responsible for the launching angle of a tennis ball, not the forward tilt of the racket face.
The tilt enables the player to make an off center contact, generating further spin by accelerating more the top edge than the entire ball itself. Top spin is not literally top spin, it's a form of eccentric acceleration of the ball that, respective to your position, could be created by a vector applying force at ANY POINT AROUND THE BALL. Move the top forward, the front downward, the bottom backward or the back upward... it's all the same movement and it's call top spin.
And, the scale 7, bold and red is not exaggerated.
I think Mahboob meant more open than closed. In other words, the angle with the horizontal is still closer to 90 degrees than it is to 0 degrees.
WRONG!
The racket face should ALWAYS be closed at contact for top spin. It's the swing path prior contact which is responsible for the launching angle of a tennis ball, not the forward tilt of the racket face.
At or very near 0, you don‘t send the ball into the net... you hit the frame. And he very clearly stated his point: not open, not closed, but vertical.
That‘s clear and can‘t be interpreted in any other way. It‘s also clearly wrong, given our factual knowledge...
I have seen pics of Fed's strings almost exactly vertical at impact.
Topspin is controlled by more than opening or closing the racket face. As is the the height of the ball controlled by more than one factor. Angle of racket head, swingpath, spin and direction of the incomming ball comes to my mind.So a question for all of the "close the racquet face for topspin" folks: If opening and closing the racquet face controls topspin, what controls the height of the ball over the net?
So a question for all of the "close the racquet face for topspin" folks: If opening and closing the racquet face controls topspin, what controls the height of the ball over the net?
Topspin is controlled by more than opening or closing the racket face. As is the the height of the ball controlled by more than one factor. Angle of racket head, swingpath, spin and direction of the incomming ball comes to my mind.
I can control the angle of the racquet head and the swingpath, but how do I control the spin and direction of the incoming ball? Seems like those are variables that I react to, not control.
If you are inside the baseline and hitting angles I don't see why not with a closed racket face, especially if the ball is above the net.
From behind the baseline it is a different story.
So a question for all of the "close the racquet face for topspin" folks: If opening and closing the racquet face controls topspin, what controls the height of the ball over the net?
I think racket face opening/closure also controls the height, along with the swingpath and swingspeed.
Please check PAT THE CAT THREADVideo evidence shows that pros are hitting ball from behind the baseline with a slightly closed racket face and it is clearing the net. Look at this video of Federer practicing. It looks like the face is slightly closed on most fhs. Other video evidence cited shows that this is usually the case.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=el_y4QqIpNY
I think the speed of the incoming ball makes a difference on how closed the racket face may be, but I haven't carefully studied it.
You say this so well and accurately. Flatter, hard Topspin shots like the pros often hit are as you say above. More rolling or loopy topspin we often see in rec tennis are often hit with a vertical or slightly open face, especially when hitting a dropping ball.Pros overwhelmingly hit topspin with a slightly closed racket face on the FH and even backhand in today's game. They do this because you can generate more spin with a less severe upward swing path. Nadal and Federer are closed on average around 10%.
I think pros do this for a reason and the reason is it is the easiest and most efficient way to hit a hard topspin shot.
So, if you want to hit a hard topspin shot, learn to hit with a slightly closed racket face.
.
rkelley,
Much of the stuff we do in tennis is eventually done by feels. The higher the speed the higher the awareness and feels.
How is keeping the racket face open/perpendicular at contact working out for you? Do you launch the ball long often? Try both (open and close racket face) and see what works for you. Doesn't hurt to try.
It's not only adjusting the racketface angle, it's adjusting the swingPATH, swing speed, and swing style.
This is exactly my point. You open/close the racquet face to make the height over the net and depth in your opponent's court work. You have to make some estimations based on the incoming ball and the swing path, but the point I've tried to make is that closing the face doesn't create topspin in and of itself (at least in any useful way), it controls the position of the ball over the net. It's fundamentally the upward swing that creates topspin.
No worries. Yes, you keep the racquet face closed to some degree or another on a lot of shots. But the amount that it's closed or open is not grip dependent, or as others have opined done to generate topspin. The amount closed or open is a combination of lots of factors.
LeeD can often hit with 5-5.5's, if I"m on the side with two players, so I only hit two out of 4 balls. I have the pace, the form, the consistency to hit every other shot.
LeeD plays singles at a really bad level, the lowest of low 4's, and sometimes at high 3.5's. Problem here is that in singles, I have to hit EVERY ball that comes to my side of the court.
So LeeD plays mostly doubles, my strength mostly reactions, volleys, and a heavy second serve....and 30 years of tennis experience.
I'd think most 3rd year players with footspeed would edge me out most singles sets. 3rd year being what it takes to hit the top of 3.5.
So now the discussion moves to grips!?
OK.
So once you understood racket face closedness at contact, and among other things, eg swing path, you want to hold the racket in a certain way to aid that closedness. That's where different grips come in. You could hold the conti grip and attempt to close the racket face at contact but it'd feel awkward and weak. So western is better.
When you said "the amount that it's closed or open is not grip dependent" it sounds like you..still don't have a firm grasp on the stroke!