I agree with fullpolyserve&volley.You'd make a dam good lawyer that likes attention and isn't satisfied with any information given to you. Even if its from a registered professional.................. You should go into politics. Its a like a zoo or a playground free of intellect. A place where people can ramble on for hours, days, weeks, months and years about stuff - slightly changing it each time to suit them. You'd fit in there. Don't take it the wong way. There's good money in it.
I dont take it the wrong way. Frankly i'd considered law as a career for a long time, but in the end the actual study of it just wasn't as interesting to me. And to be perfectly honest, it's not about the attention here for me, it's the discourse and learning. Argument might not always be the best avenue for the latter, but it tends to be a lot more interesting (greg280 seems to like it). I legitimately would like to see the source material for what you're saying, but again I understand if it's not worth your time (this is just an internet discussion anyway
)
Please don't take this personally as well, I understand that you are a professional in the training industry, but my experience with trainers and the information thrown around in the US is that while there are certainly good ones, the vast majority don't really know what they're talking about and the spread of misinformation is prevalent (the existence of more training certifications than I can count count adds to this, the ones I listed earlier as examples are generally speaking the better ones). As such i'm loathe to instantly accept new information without some sort of source material for it. From other posts i've seen you make, I do believe you know what you're talking about, but i've just never seen or read the direct correlation you've put forth earlier.
Why promote this blogger? How is he such a great resource? This dude might have a more primitive website but is far more ripped.
http://www.leangains.com/
But anyway the beauty of nutrition and diet is you don't have to take anyones word for it. If you want to try IF you can. You can check things out yourself rather then going with 'theory' all the time.
Granted theory can stop you from doing something absolutely bat **** crazy but not eating for less then a day really doesn't fall into that category.
I only posted Aragon's article because he provided citation, and it was the easiest I could access on my phone. Generally speaking from the scientific stand point Aragon is a good interpreter. Though Berkhan's physique alone adds a bit more substance to what he's talking about.
Agreed, not eating for a 16 hour window (half of which is probably spent sleeping) is hardly batsh!t crazy
Yes, b and c! By comparing how weight lifters (power lifters) train to somebody training to build bodymass ur comparing apples and bananas. The former have little hypertrophy and therefore dont need the same r&r time as a person building musclemass and can therefore train more frequently and dont run the same risk of overtraining. This is so elementary and the fact that u didnt know this is indicative of ur lack of any serious knowledge basis. Its like bad poker players, they may have the right clother, sun glasses and attitude and even make some good plays but sooner rather than later they will make a really amateurish play which at once reveals serious cavities in his knowledge that u can then exploit!
I'm gonna go ahead and respond here, but generally speaking I dont think you really know what you're talking about at all
First off, I didn't make the direct comparison that bodybuilding (or mass training in general) = powerlifting or weightlifting. You somehow came to that conclusion based on your faulty interpretation of the discussion it seems
Powerlifters =/= weightlifters, two different sports and training methodologies. Though there are similarities, they are separate. Two, what makes you think there's little hypertrophy? Just because it isn't the sole focus of their training in the same manner as say a bodybuilder does not preclude the event from happening. It also does not mean it is never something they consider. Moving up a weight class for example, they'd want to put on as much quality muscle mass and strength as they could no?
In fact, plenty of powerlifters train their assistance movements in the same manner a bodybuilder might.
Next, are you really going to suggest that training with near maximal weights on a more frequent basis puts them at significantly less of a risk of overtraining? The pursuit of maximal strength and power has no concern for overtraining? Seriously? Are you even aware of how a lot of people training for hypertrophy do it? A lot of advanced athletes SPECIFICALLY trying to put on mass often do so by splitting up the body on different days, I expect it's a lot easier to avoid overtraining in this manner because some body part is always resting (compared to the more nervous system taxing of full body and other compound movements). It also allows for shorter workouts if you know what you're doing. Although anecdotal, I actually do know a couple of bodybuilders and even though they train frequently (as in 5-6 times per week), it's usually very short (under an hour each time, sometimes even 30-45 minutes depending on the focus).
Lastly, i'm not really sure what your issue with points b and c are. First off, they're very general points. Secondly, point B stands perfectly, they do train harder and longer than anyone posting here. Again, anecdotally my experience is they train more frequently (over 6 times/week, twice a day being common) than the people I know that are specifically training for muscle mass. Point C also stands in a general sense. They often do not lose muscle mass as a result of their training alone (nutrition, rest, and recovery methods change this greatly). Are you disputing these points truth or are you just caught up in your mistaken equivocation? The point and question regarding weightlifters was directed towards mike regarding loss of muscle mass as a result of training, if you HONESTLY think this has zero application to strength athletes such as olympic weightlifters, then you have no clue, period. Overtraining is hardly the sole burden of the seekers of mass.
Quick Addendum (and this applies to mikeespinmusic too). There is a lot of fear-mongering in general for overtraining. I don't think training for mass 5-6 times a week necessarily leads to this either. If this is done stupidly (i.e. too many compound lifts too often or trying to hammer one bodypart too often) then yea, it can become an issue. An example of this being if someone tries to emulate the exact training method of a bodybuilder who is on drugs and stubbornly sticks with it. I think under recovery presents itself much more prevalently and is confused with overtraining. Actual overtraining I think is much more rare.
Granted these points are general and situations vary case to case
wow, whether you dudes like each other or not, seems to be some great info being tossed around so i thank you for that!
it's fun right? even if I or anyone else is wrong, in being corrected hopefully better knowledge is being spread. Of course mudslinging and insults without substance contribute nothing.